Silk Road forums
Discussion => Philosophy, Economics and Justice => Topic started by: Visionary on May 16, 2013, 02:10 pm
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R.U. Sirius (from the bygone era of cyberdelia) has written a thoughtful article entitled "Cypherpunk rising: WikiLeaks, encryption, and the coming surveillance dystopia"; it is available here: http://www.theverge.com/2013/3/7/4036040/cypherpunks-julian-assange-wikileaks-encryption-surveillance-dystopia.
Sirius covers a wide breadth of cyberpunk/crypto-anarchist history: the enthusiasm that fueled the 90's, the easily-predictable government attempts at suppression (e.g., Clipper), and current theorizing from Julian Assange among others.
One thought I found especially disquieting, "Assuming that some degree of privacy is still possible, most people don’t seem to think it’s worth the effort. The cypherpunks and their ilk fought to keep things like the PGP encryption program legal — and we don’t use them. We know Facebook and Google leak our personal online habits like a sieve and we don’t make much effort to cover our tracks."
This widespread indifference toward using cryptography is one of the first hurdles to overcome. There is no need to proselytize about one's pet political philosophy; rather, we should simply advocate the adoption of cryptographic software. All cypherpunks now should be ideological only insofar as cryptography is. "Have you heard about Tor browser?" is a question that can breed more users, thereby ushering in more people that have a growing familiarity with encryption, a greater desire for anonymity, a sense of their rapidly-vanishing privacy.
Make cryptography fashionable. That's our mission, first and foremost.
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One thought I found especially disquieting, "Assuming that some degree of privacy is still possible, most people don’t seem to think it’s worth the effort. The cypherpunks and their ilk fought to keep things like the PGP encryption program legal — and we don’t use them. We know Facebook and Google leak our personal online habits like a sieve and we don’t make much effort to cover our tracks."
Interesting, thanks for the link Visionary.
The quote above is spot on. Nobody seems to care about their privacy being eroded. They believe that because they are innocent and all this tech and spying and "big brother" tactics are to catch the bad guys, they aren't worried. They don't see the bigger picture at all and if you press them on the subject they either think you are a radical nutjob or they become emotionally entangled in the discussion, devolving it into an argument because they are afraid; fear bred from ignorance of the subject due to being brainwashed by the general media/TV/social networking sites etc.
I said this in another thread but not even the "First they came" poem seems to have any impact. Is it laziness? Do people not care enough? Are the drug-like pleasures of facebook so strong that people don't care about liberty as long as they can play farmville...?
I think I digress/rant.
Cheers for the link +1
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One thought I found especially disquieting, "Assuming that some degree of privacy is still possible, most people don’t seem to think it’s worth the effort. The cypherpunks and their ilk fought to keep things like the PGP encryption program legal — and we don’t use them. We know Facebook and Google leak our personal online habits like a sieve and we don’t make much effort to cover our tracks."
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The quote above is spot on. Nobody seems to care about their privacy being eroded. They believe that because they are innocent and all this tech and spying and "big brother" tactics are to catch the bad guys, they aren't worried. They don't see the bigger picture at all and if you press them on the subject they either think you are a radical nutjob or they become emotionally entangled in the discussion, devolving it into an argument because they are afraid; fear bred from ignorance of the subject due to being brainwashed by the general media/TV/social networking sites etc.
THIS RIGHT HERE. Fucking yes.
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I think the brandishing of those who speak without fear or hesitation against the status quo are intentionally labelled as extremists, cyber-hippies and keyboard warriors all too easily and the first step to make progress is not to fight the government but is to make peace and bring understanding to our peers. There is too much "You are ignorant to what the government is doing!" and I think in order to make a genuine advance for greater rights of privacy and protection for not only ourselves but our children, we must educate and become approachable to those who do not understand.
In many countries, I feel it is not the few who cause the problems who we should point the finger at, I believe that if you wish to see the guilty party - the bystander, you need only look in a mirror. Become the mainstream, the people who talk on level with the common man, and then we will be a force far greater than any government.
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Cypher Punk rising...
For one, any title that includes punk in it makes me think of a douche bag. Douche bag. Kim Kardashian or Kanye West might describe a style as "punk", and that's where I leave it.
Anyway, this thread is as boring as they come. Yes, privacy has always been an issue. Early tribes of humans didn't have many secrets; if it had been otherwise, then the tribes would have all starved to death. Modern times have loaned privacy from tribes in exchange for societies. Privacy, whether cryptographic or closed doors, has always been at risk. If you are a home owner, then living in a nice neighborhood will grant you more privacy, more security. Living in the hood, there is less discretion--less privacy.
Ever since Alexander Graham Bell, the game changed, but not by much. Ma Bell, AOL, AT&T, Verizon, Comcast, Century Link, Vonage, etc. These are eunuchs that serve the interests CEOs and elected officials, a far cry from democracy. When people sign communications contracts with public companies, enabling strangers to manage, store, and control private information, then there was no dystopia, because sheople accept the use of tech-services over which they have no control. They don't want to trouble themselves with how any of it works, so the shell out their weekly earnings to pay for poison and toxic services that have no substantial social or economic return....
WikiLeaks, encryption, and privacy are matters that only intelligent people are equipped to deal with. They who accept the responsibility must take action to secure their own personal privacy. There will never be a solution to global surveillance unless everyone steps up and demands privacy--by taking action on their own behalf.
Good Luck.
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...and the coming surveillance dystopia
FYI, we're already far beyond dystopia.
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Cypher Punk rising...
For one, any title that includes punk in it makes me think of a douche bag. Douche bag. Kim Kardashian or Kanye West might describe a style as "punk", and that's where I leave it.
Anyway, this thread is as boring as they come.
To some people punk has another true meaning. Punk is passion, truth, honesty, expression...
This thread may be boring to you, but for those of us who are new here, just learning more, or just opening our eyes this is as valid a thread as any. You weren't born knowing it all PerPETualMOtion
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The quote above is spot on. Nobody seems to care about their privacy being eroded. They believe that because they are innocent and all this tech and spying and "big brother" tactics are to catch the bad guys, they aren't worried. They don't see the bigger picture at all and if you press them on the subject they either think you are a radical nutjob or they become emotionally entangled in the discussion, devolving it into an argument because they are afraid; fear bred from ignorance of the subject due to being brainwashed by the general media/TV/social networking sites etc.
Before SR usage, I would fall into that category of "innocent" people who think they have nothing to worry about. This is how I felt after 9/11 and the passage of the Patriot Act.
Growing up a bit and joining this community has changed my mind. I consider deleting my Facebook often and I think about mainly using Tor for all of my web browsing. Even though the government does not have a reason to watch me, does not mean I should not worry.
I wouldn't be too surprised if mostly all digital communication is collected by the gov't. I read an article regarding the investigation into the recent bombings in Boston. It alleged that the FBI was able to listen to conversations between the first bomber and his wife that occurred prior to the occasion. They were trying to see what the wife really did or did not know.
The FBI wasn't watching this guy prior to the incident though. So they probably didn't have an active wiretap. This means they must have been able to pull the conversations out of some sort of database. That really worries me. If this is true, than we really have come to a point where we have no privacy.
Here is a link to another article that talks about the recorded phone conversations. [CLEARNET WARNING]http://www.jbs.org/issues-pages/boston-bombing-investigation-reveals-government-surveillance-of-phone-calls[CLEARNET WARNING]
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Growing up a bit and joining this community has changed my mind. I consider deleting my Facebook often and I think about mainly using Tor for all of my web browsing. Even though the government does not have a reason to watch me, does not mean I should not worry.
This is the natural response when people become privacy-aware, but I think when you drop "off the grid", and have no mobile phone, social network accounts, or online presence in general, it makes you stick out and can potentially draw attention to you.
You can create accounts and never use them, so the companies that make money from surveillance get nothing from you. At least you blend in better that way.
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Cypher Punk rising...
For one, any title that includes punk in it makes me think of a douche bag. Douche bag. Kim Kardashian or Kanye West might describe a style as "punk", and that's where I leave it.
Anyway, this thread is as boring as they come.
To some people punk has another true meaning. Punk is passion, truth, honesty, expression...
This thread may be boring to you, but for those of us who are new here, just learning more, or just opening our eyes this is as valid a thread as any. You weren't born knowing it all PerPETualMOtion
Not boring, just any appeal to "punk" is annoying. It's like bisexuals or homosexuals calling themselves Freedom Faggots, or something like that. That's how I interpret punk-titles.... either childish or annoying or childishly annoying. Sorry for any negativity about the movement.
I should specify that my response strictly adheres to the following title:
Wikileaks, Encryption, and Surveillance
Surveillance has no dystopic reality. Here's why.
If people are concerned about privacy in the the rapidly developing digital (quantum) world, then there is a niche market for IT professionals to develop new companies and management of intellectual property--which includes personal information. As people get more educated with regard to digital privacy, then the navigation through the uncharted waters of innovation (ergo wikileaks, encryption, social media/tech, and 100% data capture of all written, spoken, and encrypted communications) will soon be very public and very manageable. Those who take the responsibility to protect themselves while coexisting in a politically hostile environment will be privileged to access information or conduct business with unnecessary breaches of privacy.
Corporate lifestyles, just like military operations, enable secure means to doing business. I have previously made negative statements about corporations, but this was mostly flippant and emotional stress relief--a scream in a forest. In a more neutral tone, the great change in this Tor-ific revolution is that individuals now have access to knowledge and technology to pursue the same access to privacy and piece of mind as a sophisticated corporate infrastructure or military intelligence unit.
There is nothing mysterious or original about users of TOR. Each generation and culture has changed from preceding generations, but more significant: so has technology. Crooks, crime lords, war lords, politicians, corporations, hobbyists, educators, policy makers, and media continue to do the same thing they've always done. Technology has made it easier to connect the world. However, aside from the technological-intellectual (r)evolution, nothing has fundamentally changed.
Facebook, Twitter, etc., have only enabled the ancient practice known as gossip to occur on a global scale in nanoseconds. Gossip hasn't changed.....
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Anyway, this thread is as boring as they come. Yes, privacy has always been an issue. Early tribes of humans didn't have many secrets; if it had been otherwise, then the tribes would have all starved to death. Modern times have loaned privacy from tribes in exchange for societies. Privacy, whether cryptographic or closed doors, has always been at risk. If you are a home owner, then living in a nice neighborhood will grant you more privacy, more security. Living in the hood, there is less discretion--less privacy.
I think the asymmetry between the political caste and the rest of us has never been more pronounced. We are transparent to them; they are private to us. All of my emails can be read by, let's say, the President; however, none of his emails can be read by me.
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"Do people not care enough? Are the drug-like pleasures of facebook so strong that people don't care about liberty as long as they can play farmville...?"
I think it's maily becoz we humans have this "that will never happen to ME!" syndrome .... so many naive people with SO little real life experience ... they are the slow gazelles, the low hanging fruit, and will probably pay a hefty price for their naivete and ignorance in a few years.
There are many good opinions in this thread, i'm impressed and thank you all for helping us 'get here' cryptoanarchistically speaking that is!
We concur with Pakchoi here...
@PerPETualMOtion, did you ever hear the saying ,, "It's better to remain quiet and appear stupid, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt" ?.... well you have now!
"To some people punk has another true meaning. Punk is passion, truth, honesty, expression..."
This thread may be boring to you, but for those of us who are new here, just learning more, or just opening our eyes this is as valid a thread as any. You weren't born knowing it all PerPETualMOtion
EXACTLY!!! +39 bro!
And yet then he says this
"Not boring, just any appeal to "punk" is annoying"
then why dafuq did you use that word?
Think about it before going off half cocked matey....seems like you have thought about 'some' things yet believe you have covered them all .... sounds like me when I was 20!
And here you go AGAIN!!....
"It's like bisexuals or homosexuals calling themselves Freedom Faggots, or something like that."
"something LIKE that" ???
Again..dafuq? why cant you find the right words in the first place INSTEAD of having to come back and 'repair' what you first said? and THEN you say this...
"That's how I interpret punk-titles.... either childish or annoying or childishly annoying"
Fine, that's YOUR interpretation, yet in the next paragraph you go on to TELL us "what's REALLY going on" .... "Surveillance has no dystopic reality. Here's why."
Oh,, are you sure? ..no, no you are not, and hence why you are trying to convince others you are "right"... so IF they agree with you, you can continue on with your foolish "all knowing" attitude.
OK, that's your 'choice' and that's cool, BUT please dont try to TELL people who have demonstrated in this topic alone, more knowledge in a few sentences than you have put together in ALL your posts!
And digital=/=quantum !!! Your 'beliefs' are just that, YOUR BELIEFS, not "proof"
Anyhoo....
At my place, they have been busting hydro crops like they're going out of fashion! I heard the figure was over 10,000kgs seized this year alone!!!
How? Fuckin "Smart electricity Meters" they only started installing in 2010!! Careful everyone, tell those you care about, and share the love.
** Clearnet Warning**
This is a very worthy way to spend 25 minutes, and supports what many of you already know and are saying here!
Paul Hellyers comments on a shadow govt controlling the US/world AND his knowledge of % alien species that have been 'visiting earth for thousands of years"
Truly fascinating stuff!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAbFrQpfGM0
watch this and learn something PM
Stay safe all, you too PM
m m m motek x
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Make cryptography fashionable. That's our mission, first and foremost.
YES. So much yes.
If you have friends who believe in liberty and privacy, even if they have no desire to do drugs -- nag them to join Tor.
Get them to start running a relay (non-exit for most people, unless you really know what you're doing).
Start routinely encrypting all email and chat, whether it's sensitive information or not. Client programs make it effortless.
The "I have nothing to hide" attitude is strictly for sheep.
Don't be a sheep.
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The "I have nothing to hide" attitude is strictly for sheep.
Don't be a sheep.
+1, this kind of attitude towards one's own privacy is what pisses me off, a lot of people in my country think this way.
Why they should use any kind of measures to protect their privacy if they've got nothing to hide? I don't know, maybe it's their mentality and / or their blind obedience to the government.
"If privacy is outlawed, only outlaws will have privacy." - Philip Zimmermann
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"If I had engaged in politics, I should have perished long ago and done no good to either you or to myself. ...for the truth is that no man who goes to war with you or any other multitude, honestly struggling against the commission of unrighteouosness and wrong in the State, will save his life; he who will really fight for right, if he would live even for a little while, must have a private station and not a public one."
"The secret of change is to focus all of your energy, not on fighting the old, but on building the new."
Socrates
The more things change the more they stay the same. Or to quote one of the best show on TV EVER: "All this has happened before and will happen again"
I have always been very political. My character flaw is an over abundance of empathy, which makes looking at the world and seeing all the injustice difficult. As i have aged i have realised the truth in the above wisdom, wisdom that is thousands of years old. It's why i'm here. We can't fight the government, but we can help build something new, something better. SR and bitcoin is a beginning......as ancient power structures falter, as the banking/.gov parasite slowly kills the host (us) it has attached itself to, more and more people will move into underground economies. People from the east already understand this, they know they have to fear their government, people in the west live in the perpetual state of delusion that .gov is their friend. Slowly, ever so slowly that is changing though, and as more and more people start to abandon the existing power and monetary structures, we will starve the beast of what it needs: our consent.
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Lame....