Silk Road forums
Discussion => Philosophy, Economics and Justice => Topic started by: astor on March 28, 2013, 11:07 pm
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The bitcoin developers are fond of saying, "don't invest more money in bitcoin than you can afford to lose."
Perhaps it's time to rephrase that
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=160292
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Investing in anything is always a matter a trust. Trust in a business partner, trust in a economic system, trust in a economic system. It seems like more and more that the phrase printed on our money "In God We Trust" is the only thing we can trust about our money.
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Yuck. Must be a sick feeling.
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http://www.smh.com.au/national/i-went-to-sleep-friday-as-a-rich-man-i-woke-up-a-poor-man-20130328-2gxab.html
'I went to sleep Friday as a rich man. I woke up a poor man'
"Very bad, very, very bad," says 65-year-old John Demetriou, rubbing tears from his lined face with thick fingers. "I lost all my money."
John now lives in the picturesque fishing village of Liopetri on Cyprus' south coast. But for 35 years he lived at Bondi Junction and worked days, nights and weekends in Sydney markets selling jewellery and imitation jewellery.
He had left Cyprus in the early 1970s at the height of its war with Turkey, taking his wife and young children to safety in Australia. He built a life from nothing and, gradually, a substantial nest egg. He retired to Cyprus in 2007 with about $1 million, his life savings.
He planned to spend it on his grandchildren - some of whom live in Cyprus - putting them through university and setting them up. There would be medical bills; he has a heart condition. The interest was paying for a comfortable retirement, and trips back to Australia. He also toyed with the idea of buying a boat.
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He wanted to leave any big purchases a few years, to be sure this was where he would spend his retirement. There was no hurry. But now it is all gone.
"If I made the decision to stay, I was going to build a house," John says. "Unfortunately I didn't make the decision yet.
"I went to sleep Friday as a rich man. I woke up a poor man."
His money was all in the Laiki "Popular" Bank which was the main casualty of Cyprus' bailout package set by the European Union. Laiki is to be dismantled. Savings of less than €100,000 are to move to the Bank of Cyprus. Anything more than that will almost certainly be wiped out as the bank is wound down, its remaining assets taken by the bank's creditors.
Last week he heard a rumour that the bank was in trouble and went into Aiya Napa to ask his bank manager - a friend - if he should move his life savings.
"There's no problem, nothing to worry about," he was told.
Not so. "I go to bed and I can't sleep. I walk around, I have a coffee. I am thinking about my family."
John's tears flow. As he chokes up, his son George, who moved to Cyprus in 1990, explains.
"The whole family, we used to work at the markets. I would work at the markets on the weekend to help my parents while my mates were off having fun. Honest work in honest jobs. Now all that hard work is paying
the debts of other people and the government. It's disgusting, to be honest."
George says he can start again - if things get worse he and his family might move back to Australia.
"But not my dad. He can't go back to Australia. He is not allowed to fly because of his heart, and anyway where would he live? He has no house. He will have €100,000 left to live off. Soon he's not going to have a cent to his name."
John has a thin hope. His money was sitting in the bank in Australian dollars instead of euros, so he wonders if it would be exempt from the bank's collapse. But the bank's doors are closed, so he doesn't even know to whom he should put that argument.
"For the moment I am 'sitting on charcoal', as they say," waiting to see if he gets burnt.
"It's not Russian money, it's not black money. It's my money."
There are almost 5000 Cypriot-Australians on the island. Most are - or were - self-sufficient veterans of the 1950s engineering boom or the 1974 war who came back to retire or to be with family (John is looking after his 90-year-old mother).
This week Britain stopped paying pensions into Cypriot accounts, advising expatriates to open a British bank account instead.
Australia's high commission in Nicosia has already fielded inquiries from dual nationals seeking advice on their pensions. They were told to set up different payment arrangements, a spokeswoman for the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade said.
"We expect the main impact will be for Australians who have invested large sums in Laiki Bank or the Bank of Cyprus," she said. "There is no need for special measures at this stage."
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It is heartbreaking. It gives the truth to the saying: The paranoid survive. You cannot trust humans or the institutions they build, no matter how big or formidable. We've often talked about on SR about diversifying between different currencies, gold, bitcoin etc, and then diversifying access to those resources in case of asset forfeiture. It is an irony that such precautions, for us, on possibly the most wary forum on the network, would ensure our survival whereas regular people who trust in these rusting institutions are thrown into poverty.
I think that those trusting in Social Security to feather their nests in old age are in for similar cruel shocks. SS is a official pyramid scheme that depends on the largesse of the State to survive. Since we in debt to the hilt and since we are living in the most peaceful period in history, it doesn't take a genius to work out that any untoward shocks like a war would lead to millions of Americans and Europeans being thrown into the worst kind of poverty. Not to mention the demographic factors which haunt most western countries. You've eaten your children. They have no economic prospects, they're delusional if they think things are going to improve. Most of them are hiding in places of higher education, waiting for "recovery". What a joke. 80 - 90% of Americans believe that the living standard for their children will be worse that what it was for them. The most hilarious thing is that Western governments are throwing huge amounts of resources at the Darknet, far more than the actual GDP of it, so the LE agents seeking our demise are sitting pretty for now. But come the fall, you'll be working for us, or you'll be unemployed, because we have an economic model that actually FUCKING WORKS. It's called Capitalism, you may have heard of it.
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its so sad to read stories like this..
But everyone in the US shud keep in mind too that banks here are only FDIC insured up to $100,000 . Meaning that any more than that in your bank account will be lost if bank closes down or goes bankrupt. Not that anybody here has over 100 grand just lying around in their bank, but well ya never know ;)
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It is heartbreaking. It gives the truth to the saying: The paranoid survive. You cannot trust humans or the institutions they build, no matter how big or formidable. We've often talked about on SR about diversifying between different currencies, gold, bitcoin etc, and then diversifying access to those resources in case of asset forfeiture. It is an irony that such precautions, for us, on possibly the most wary forum on the network, would ensure our survival whereas regular people who trust in these rusting institutions are thrown into poverty.
I think that those trusting in Social Security to feather their nests in old age are in for similar cruel shocks. SS is a official pyramid scheme that depends on the largesse of the State to survive. Since we in debt to the hilt and since we are living in the most peaceful period in history, it doesn't take a genius to work out that any untoward shocks like a war would lead to millions of Americans and Europeans being thrown into the worst kind of poverty. Not to mention the demographic factors which haunt most western countries. You've eaten your children. They have no economic prospects, they're delusional if they think things are going to improve. Most of them are hiding in places of higher education, waiting for "recovery". What a joke. 80 - 90% of Americans believe that the living standard for their children will be worse that what it was for them. The most hilarious thing is that Western governments are throwing huge amounts of resources at the Darknet, far more than the actual GDP of it, so the LE agents seeking our demise are sitting pretty for now. But come the fall, you'll be working for us, or you'll be unemployed, because we have an economic model that actually FUCKING WORKS. It's called Capitalism, you may have heard of it.
Yes very true, the US is the creator of the biggest Ponzi Scheme ever. Ever. You think Madoff's scheme was big? He had maybe a couple billion involved in his scam. The US Social Security Ponzi scheme is in the trillions!
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I feel terrible for the guy in Astor's comment, but at the same time, I thought it was pretty common sense that you didn't keep more than was insured in one bank account. Damn that's heartbreaking though.
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Yea everyone should be diversifying there assets and if you live in a rural area grow your own food!!!!
My current assets are US dollar, Silver, bit-coins and of course lots of drugs!!!! :)
The way I see it if the dollar crashes tomorrow silver might be worth something to some people bit-coins will probably surge with the fall of the dollar and drugs I would be able to trade at inflated prices during a system crash.
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Holding an asset so you can flip it is a speculation. All gold bugs, Bitcoiners, and currency traders are speculators. We already have the word conjecture for poorly thought out shit so don't get me wrong.
An investment is a liability and an asset, for example: the share certificate is a liability, the dividends are an asset, it carries an aspect of risk. You can't tell what your risk is with Bitcoin, you can only conjecture aka speculate. But it is just conjecture, and it is just flipping an asset later at a higher price.
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