Silk Road forums
Discussion => Shipping => Topic started by: lelmeriodici on March 16, 2013, 11:28 pm
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Any cases of CDs on a PO or CMRA box that you've heard of? Please keep speculation to a minimum
Thanks,
lelmeriodici
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Any particular country you are referring too?
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My bad, USA. I'm wasn't aware that other countries did CDs.
Thanks,
lelmeriodici
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Knew a guy that got busted picking up at private box for 3k x pills from EU, This was before SR maybe 7 years ago. $250,000 bond :[ Not sure what end game was. Probably a few years in the pokey
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Not sure if these 2 cases involve PO boxes, but they do involve getting busted at the PO: (these amounts were too big to fit into any PO Box anyhow)
http://www.newsminer.com/article_6b111947-a451-5ab6-a76d-35902d2e73b7.html
http://www.examiner.com/article/man-arrested-for-mailing-marijuana-to-self
I'm sure you could find more occurrences... but still, only like around 1350 people busted by the postal inspectors last year.
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I've done a lot of looking for this kind of information. From what I can tell, the people that have had the most extensive contact with controlled deliveries are Steroid users...
If you search on Google you'll find a lot of CD info from the early 2000s on steroid and weight lifting forums, a lot of the info seems to come from between 2002-2005. Bluelight.ru has some info and marijuana related forums like grasscity and rollitup are also good sources for stories and experiences about controlled deliveries. When a controlled delivery happens at a post office box it seems to fall into one of three patterns.
1. Slip in the box
-This is where the put a slip asking you to come to the desk in the lobby and sign for your package. From what I can tell this is usually preceded by something strange like a phone call from the Post Office themselves either telling you that your package has arrived or saying that there is a problem with the shipment and they need you to come in and receive the package in person. Then the postal inspector along with LE from other agencies are working in the Post Office that day and they have guys in the parking lot and whatnot waiting to make an arrest. I read where one guy's girlfriend was arrested when she went to pick up his stuff and I read where one guy went into the post office and they were having what appeared to be an "office party" complete with cake and punch. Of course every one at this little party was an undercover agent and the guy was arrested immediately upon signing.
2. GPS tracking
-This is where the package is intercepted and a GPS device is placed within the package. I have read one case specifically where the device was not only a location tracker but it was light sensitive so it could inform LE when the package was opened since the inside of the box is a dark environment and more light would enter the package upon it being opened.. What happens is you go to your box, get the package out of your box and then you are followed and observed, once you've opened the package or once a specific amount of time has passed you are arrested. I have read about two cases like this. Both were from Alaska, one was for marijuana and one was for heroin. In both cases the subjects were followed by law enforcement using the tracking device in the package and busted a little later.
3. Arrest at the PO box
-This is where they allow the package to be put in your box but instead of allowing you any time to move, as soon as you take possession of the package you are arrested. I did a search on this forum and I read a post where the poster's uncle received marijuana in his PO box. I believe he waited twenty four hours after he knew it was at the box to pick it up. According to the poster, as soon as his had his hands on the package there was a gun in his face and he was being arrested. 24 hours is the longest I've read of someone waiting to pick up something from their post office box so I cannot say how long LE would be willing to wait on someone to get a package. In this case though I would assume they have back up measures on hand, like a GPS tracker in the package, so they don't have to devote so much time to waiting.
All of the above cases I have read had a common thread among them, the amounts were large and they were all for schedule 1 drugs. In the case of steroids, vials leaking is what gave the package away since the PO opens those boxes to see what is leaking and why. In the case of the heroin and marijuana, drug dogs had sniffed out the shipments at hubs and LE was contacted and allowed the packages to go through. Often times the way someone behaves causes suspicion to be aroused at the post office and that can trigger an individual being flagged which leads to a controlled delivery.
In one heroin GPS CD I read about, the guy was literally following his mail man and hounding him with questions about his package. In a marijuana-Alaska-GPS CD I read about, the guy that opened the box asked questions about drug dogs and drugs in the mail to post office employees, then had the idiocy to use a fake name at his PO Box in a 4000 person town to receive his marijuana shipments. All these things helped the post office establish a reason to pay attention in the first place.
Honestly, if you're getting small amounts to a PO box I wouldn't worry too much about a CD. Be mindful of what a small amount is though, a small amount to you or I might be enough to trigger a CD from LE. Read up on your state's specific drug laws to find out what their punishments are for various weights of the different scheduled drugs. Not only does that help you have an idea of sentencing in case of the worst but it can give you a heads up on bail money amounts, if you'd be eligible for pre-trial diversion programs and a lot of other stuff.
Take care and I hope that gives you some info.
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My bad, USA. I'm wasn't aware that other countries *existed*.
Thanks,
lelmeriodici
Fixed. :D
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thanks karen.
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Really good info, karensupreme.
I still maintain that a home or business address is safer than a PO box, because you have to take a positive action to pick something up at a PO box. Unless you go to the PO box every day and get lots of other mail there, it's hard to deny you knew about the package.
Although, I doubt that's much protection anyway. If they intercept a package with a large enough quantity of drugs in it, they will do a controlled delivery and you will get arrested, no matter where the shipping location is. Even if you beat your charges later, it can turn your life upside down.
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Fantastic info, karensupreme. It's good to see someone who shares my sense of paranoia (or at least caution), thanks!
An office party full of LEOs.... wow, you must be receiving tens of thousands of dollars of gear to get that... (I sure hope)
So it sounds like in most cases its simply up to the vendor not to give reasonable suspicion to seize a package. That is, you rely on the seller to properly package and stealthy label the package you are receiving.
Thanks,
lelmeriodici
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Hey Astor, I think you are right, it is harder to protect at a PO box than a home address because you have to actually go to the post office at some point. As far as I can tell, legally, the only real protection one has at their home is if they refuse to answer the door - period. Barry Cooper of Never Get Busted has really great information about this. I read about one case on a steroid forum where a guy opened his door and the officer delivering the package simply threw the box in the house, as soon as he threw that box into the house several guys came running into the house from the back and front. So in that case the guy opening the door wasn't asked to sign, he didn't even speak to the officer, the simple fact that he opened the door gave LE all the wiggle room they needed to get in. Some may think that sounds extreme, that an officer would throw a package into the house but lets think about all the tactics we've read about on these forums alone....if you read the postal intern sticky JanetReno says it best "if they want you, they are going to get you, no matter what" and I believe that. At that point it is up to us to be informed on how to handle the post-arrest, to make our case as strong and as unassailable as possible post-arrest.
And lelmeriodici, hahaha, dude believe me, I have yet to encounter anyone as absolutely and outright paranoid as myself so its good to see other cautious people. Yeah, these guys were getting popped (the steroid guys) for several thousand dollars worth of personal use stuff....the problem is they didn't see a several thousand dollar purchase as being a terribly high amount of "gear" and so I think that may have contributed, in part, to them being watched. Also, at the time, I believe 2002, the laws about steroids changed in the US and I think LE across the country were putting more emphasis on it, thus the reason for the busts. Ultimately, leaking vials of steroids were what triggered it in every case of the steroids.
To answer your question, yes, I think a lot of it has to do with how your vendor packages it and thats where homework and research comes in. I even worry if I am buying pills from someone that also sells something that puts out a strong odor, like mj, that the odor may transfer in the packaging and get a false hit from the dogs causing the pills to be discovered. I think it boils down to common sense and being well researched but obviously we cannot reduce our risk to 0%. We all must decide for ourselves and make the calculation of risk vs reward. If I can help in any way, let me know, that goes for anyone, I am a research hound and love learning. Take Care.
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Thanks for the reply karensupreme.
I think I'm going to disagree with you on shipping to a box versus your house, though. Getting a PO box or a private box at a CMRA for three months seems safer to me, so long as you receive a number of legitimate items at those addresses. For one thing, it's another hoop to jump through to get info on someone with a box at a CMRA. Also, omitting a name and leaving just the number of the box leaves reasonable doubt (in my opinion) that it could be intended for the previous owner of the box or a different one entirely. Last, 24 hour access ensures that you won't be jumped right when you pick up the package, and you'll have time to hide it for a while if it's an especially large order.
lelmeriodici
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Hey Astor, I think you are right, it is harder to protect at a PO box than a home address because you have to actually go to the post office at some point. As far as I can tell, legally, the only real protection one has at their home is if they refuse to answer the door - period. Barry Cooper of Never Get Busted has really great information about this. I read about one case on a steroid forum where a guy opened his door and the officer delivering the package simply threw the box in the house, as soon as he threw that box into the house several guys came running into the house from the back and front. So in that case the guy opening the door wasn't asked to sign, he didn't even speak to the officer, the simple fact that he opened the door gave LE all the wiggle room they needed to get in. Some may think that sounds extreme, that an officer would throw a package into the house but lets think about all the tactics we've read about on these forums alone....if you read the postal intern sticky JanetReno says it best "if they want you, they are going to get you, no matter what" and I believe that. At that point it is up to us to be informed on how to handle the post-arrest, to make our case as strong and as unassailable as possible post-arrest.
Yeah, I've never given much weight to refusing to sign or putting a "return to sender" note on the package. If it is in your home, and especially if it has your real name on it, you will most likely be charged.
A fake name adds some plausible deniability. I know of one person who had a package of subscription opiates intercepted. It was not a large quantity, not enough for a controlled delivery. But LE did a knock and talk, asked him about the package. Since he used a fake name, he claimed it was a former roommate who had moved out. The cops may have known he was lying, but there's nothing they could do. Wasn't enough evidence to prove he had knowledge of it in a court of law.
I have been told about another person who had some marijuana intercepted. LE also did a knock and talk, but he admitted it was his and got charged.
You need to eliminate any evidence that you had prior knowledge of the package. Obviously either don't talk to LE (don't even be home) or vehemently deny all knowledge. A fake name is better than a real name. Passive delivery is better than taking a positive action.
If you live in a place where mail will only be delivered to names registered on the mailbox, that makes things more difficult. In that case, consider getting fake identification and a PMB.
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If you live in a place where mail will only be delivered to names registered on the mailbox, that makes things more difficult. In that case, consider getting fake identification and a PMB.
I hate that idea, because when you they look up who owns the box and find out it belongs to a person who doesn't exist, they'll get super suspicious and make fucking you over their pet project. When they find you, you'll have no defense, and you'll have a count of false identification added to the list of charges.
If you are going to use a false ID, at least use it at a CMRA that runs a chance of not giving a fuck about LEO or that might tip you off that they've been getting calls from LEOs...
lelmeriodici
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Thanks for the reply karensupreme.
I think I'm going to disagree with you on shipping to a box versus your house, though. Getting a PO box or a private box at a CMRA for three months seems safer to me, so long as you receive a number of legitimate items at those addresses. For one thing, it's another hoop to jump through to get info on someone with a box at a CMRA. Also, omitting a name and leaving just the number of the box leaves reasonable doubt (in my opinion) that it could be intended for the previous owner of the box or a different one entirely. Last, 24 hour access ensures that you won't be jumped right when you pick up the package, and you'll have time to hide it for a while if it's an especially large order.
lelmeriodici
They aren't going to not bust you because a private box is an extra step. They'll get your info from the facility records. Even if you used fake information they'll either monitor the location or put GPS/invisible dye into the box. Once you bring that box into your car you can count on them seizing your car (they get to keep the money from the auction), you will get arrested and have bond and they will search your house. The legal system will take into account the fact that you used a private box in order to prove what's called constructive possession.
There are a lot of busts for boxes. If you've got a clean house, a clean car and nobody that will talk under pressure from police then great but in that case you might as well have the stuff delivered to your home.
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One of the most educational threads I have read on SR in a good minute! Especially your post Karen.
My 2c, I find personally that the biggest thing to ensure is that if you are preparing for an arrest or possible CD is keeping your hardware and software clean, as well as text and phonecalls from phones that are not prepaid need to steered away from... Bank account withdrawals/deposits... It can all be tracked & traced right back to us...
Its not a big deal if you have a pack shipped to you with your name on it and it gets caught...
It is a big deal if that happens and then they see all your incriminating posts, software, txt, phonecalls, gps locations, drug related things ect...
Then it goes from the point of where you can deny, to where you need to make a plea deal...
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Those are valid points, slirp. I just hope I never attract that much attention from what little stuff I order! :D
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Those are valid points, slirp. I just hope I never attract that much attention from what little stuff I order! :D
Yep. It is very tempting to order international and order larger quantities to save money. The laws in the US and many US states are ridiculous. What we consider a personal use amount is by many states considered possession with intent to sell based on quantity. Really crazy but you're right in that the less you order the better your chances.
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Thanks for posting Karen, that was an informative reply. Now if I could only figure out how to +1 you. .
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Thanks for posting Karen, that was an informative reply. Now if I could only figure out how to +1 you. .
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