Silk Road forums
Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: OzFreelancer on February 07, 2013, 10:08 pm
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This is perhaps the most comprehensive article yet written. Journalistic ethics prevent me from cut'n'pasting the whole thing. :)
"Forget South American cartels and Russian arms dealers: the black market has moved online"
http://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/comment/articles/2013-02/07/silk-road-online-drugs-guns-black-market/viewall
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I agree, that is the most thorough and least sensational article I've ever read about SR. I would quibble with a few minor details, but overall it's very good. They interviewed a lot of central people, the researcher Nicolas Christin, Runa Sandvik of the Tor Project, Mike Hearn of Google, who works on Bitcoin -- even DPR, in a sense. ;)
A highly recommended read.
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GQ's journalists are clearly a cut above local newspaper reporters. :)
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Good read, but i get sooo pissed when SR is mentioned in the media. Really grinds my gears. llol
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nice
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GQ's journalists are clearly a cut above local newspaper reporters. :)
Ouch! :O ::)
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Thanks for the awesome article.
Really like your site too.
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nice share! thanks for posting this up 8)
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Nice read... DPR inspirational guy.
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"Intrigued, GQ messaged Silk Road's administrator - the Dread Pirate Roberts himself - to ask whether he was worried about the law-enforcement agencies trying to track him down. Two days later, on returning to the site, there was a response on the glowing screen in dark letters: "No." Asked why, he simply wrote: "I have confidence in our security measures.""
What a badass.
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Well this is one internet article whose comment section I will *not* be participating in, LOL (comments are tied to Facebook and I don't want to deal with that).
Good read, but i get sooo pissed when SR is mentioned in the media. Really grinds my gears. llol
I understand this feeling. Publicity is certainly a double-edged sword (possibly leaning toward harmful though). The funniest thing in the article is that these government agencies openly talk to journalists about their methods and successes / fails with regards to shutting down SR or catching DPR. When you are playing poker it is best to keep your cards close to your chest, but apparently the US (and other) governments don't realize this. It's kinda calming to be honest, to know how sloppy they can be.
It seems like their conclusions about "a bitcoin wallet with lots of money in it" are so loose they wouldn't stand a chance in court. Still, all it takes is one slip up for someone big (DPR or a big vendor) to get busted. Investigators probably make most progress off of people's sloppiness, not from actual detective work.
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Those articles that are concise and elude to be fact driven & are concerning - to quote someone I do not know personally,
"Ignoring a problem is the same as being ignorant of it."
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It seems like their conclusions about "a bitcoin wallet with lots of money in it" are so loose they wouldn't stand a chance in court. Still, all it takes is one slip up for someone big (DPR or a big vendor) to get busted. Investigators probably make most progress off of people's sloppiness, not from actual detective work.
If they caught DPR he would almost certainly go to jail. They'd have to fuck that investigation BIG time for it to turn out any other way. IMO anyhow. You're right though. Sloppiness all around. People watch cop shows that tie everything up in an hour and get this impression of law enforcement as a well-oiled criminal-snatching machine. The truth is far from that. A good book that illustrates this is Helter Skelter. It's written by the lawyer who prosecuted Charley Manson, and it's fucking phenomenal. It's one of a handful of book I find myself recommending on a monthly basis.
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"Intrigued, GQ messaged Silk Road's administrator - the Dread Pirate Roberts himself - to ask whether he was worried about the law-enforcement agencies trying to track him down. Two days later, on returning to the site, there was a response on the glowing screen in dark letters: "No." Asked why, he simply wrote: "I have confidence in our security measures.""
What a badass.
Thats what I like to see!
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Every news article is free advertising. SR owes most its popularity to the media, since it has done zero advertising of its own. SR's unprecedented popularity means buyers can choose from hundreds of vendors, unlike any other drug site, and vendors have access to tens of thousands of customers, unlike any other drug site. We all win.
If the infrastructure is really secure, as DPR says, then I welcome it.
I especially like where Adrian Chen said that people were emailing him about how to get on SR. He acts all moralistic, but really he doesn't give a shit. He continued to write new articles about SR, knowing they would increase the site's popularity, because those articles get him tons of hits.
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If the infrastructure is really secure
On that note, I hope SR team is doing something like this
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=100998.msg705761#msg705761
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"... Then, last summer, a user by the name "Arkanos" on BitcoinTalk - a forum for enthusiasts - stumbled across a wallet containing more than 500,000 Bitcoins. At the time, the exchange rate was around £5 per coin, valuing the contents at more than £2.5m. Someone was hoarding one of the largest sums of the digital currency ever discovered. Not only that, Arkanos claimed that he had traced money paid into the large account from Silk Road. Then he disappeared without a trace..."
Sounds like an X-Files case...
Excellent, non-biased article all round, congrats OzFreelancer.
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Every news article is free advertising. SR owes most its popularity to the media, since it has done zero advertising of its own. SR's unprecedented popularity means buyers can choose from hundreds of vendors, unlike any other drug site, and vendors have access to tens of thousands of customers, unlike any other drug site. We all win.
If the infrastructure is really secure, as DPR says, then I welcome it.
I especially like where Adrian Chen said that people were emailing him about how to get on SR. He acts all moralistic, but really he doesn't give a shit. He continued to write new articles about SR, knowing they would increase the site's popularity, because those articles get him tons of hits.
Let's not forget we've had attacks that have mucked this place up temporarily. Hopefully private contact / personal info has never truly been compromised though. I like that DPR used the term "confident", so it doesn't come off as too boastful. If he had said something like "LOL ur never gonna catch us, n00b", I would be a bit more concerned.
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"... Then, last summer, a user by the name "Arkanos" on BitcoinTalk - a forum for enthusiasts - stumbled across a wallet containing more than 500,000 Bitcoins. At the time, the exchange rate was around £5 per coin, valuing the contents at more than £2.5m. Someone was hoarding one of the largest sums of the digital currency ever discovered. Not only that, Arkanos claimed that he had traced money paid into the large account from Silk Road. Then he disappeared without a trace..."
Sounds like an X-Files case...
Excellent, non-biased article all round, congrats OzFreelancer.
I wish I could lay claim to the article, but I had absolutely nothing to do with it. :)
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If DPR ever gets caught I'm gonna quit my job and make a movie about his life.
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Hopefully private contact / personal info has never truly been compromised though.
The nice thing about SR's design is that it requires almost zero trust in the admins. If you PGP encrypt your address, it won't matter if the database containing shipping info is compromised. The only point at which you must trust SR is when you transfer coins to your account. You trust that they will credit your account and hold your money in escrow. Vendors trust that the coins will be transferred to them. Everything else, including obtaining the coins, can be secured independently of SR.
I know that in practice that isn't the case. 80% of buyers don't encrypt their address. Most people think that sending coins through a few ewallets unlinks them from SR. We can't prevent all unsafe behavior, but we have the tools to engage in safe behavior, almost completely independently from SR.
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That is a good article. Thanks for sharing it with us.
I think it will give some people a lot more confidence in using the site.
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"Intrigued, GQ messaged Silk Road's administrator - the Dread Pirate Roberts himself - to ask whether he was worried about the law-enforcement agencies trying to track him down. Two days later, on returning to the site, there was a response on the glowing screen in dark letters: "No." Asked why, he simply wrote: "I have confidence in our security measures.""
What a badass.
Lol exactly what I was thinking.
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This is perhaps the most comprehensive article yet written. Journalistic ethics prevent me from cut'n'pasting the whole thing. :)...
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http://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/comment/articles/2013-02/07/silk-road-online-drugs-guns-black-market/viewall
So this would be in the "clear web" if I understand the distinction. I may not understand security processes yet. So, I'm thinking I would need to reboot my computer (im in Tails) and use a regular browser to get there (safely). On the way I would lose the URL unless I write it down. So, if someone with less "Journalistic ethics" could paste the article in here, that would be handy :-) NWN
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I wish I could lay claim to the article, but I had absolutely nothing to do with it. :)
My mistake, sorry!
Still a good article though, thanks for sharing :)
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This is perhaps the most comprehensive article yet written. Journalistic ethics prevent me from cut'n'pasting the whole thing. :)...
...
http://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/comment/articles/2013-02/07/silk-road-online-drugs-guns-black-market/viewall
So this would be in the "clear web" if I understand the distinction. I may not understand security processes yet. So, I'm thinking I would need to reboot my computer (im in Tails) and use a regular browser to get there (safely). On the way I would lose the URL unless I write it down. So, if someone with less "Journalistic ethics" could paste the article in here, that would be handy :-) NWN
You can view the article with tor. Just go to duckduckgo type a search for GQ Silk Road. The article should come right up.
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If DPR ever gets caught I'm gonna quit my job and make a movie about his life.
Man, he definitely deserves a movie!
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Very good article.
LONG LIVE SR!! we WONT BE STOPPED!! (Hopefully) lol
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This is perhaps the most comprehensive article yet written. Journalistic ethics prevent me from cut'n'pasting the whole thing. :)...
...
http://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/comment/articles/2013-02/07/silk-road-online-drugs-guns-black-market/viewall
So this would be in the "clear web" if I understand the distinction. I may not understand security processes yet. So, I'm thinking I would need to reboot my computer (im in Tails) and use a regular browser to get there (safely). On the way I would lose the URL unless I write it down. So, if someone with less "Journalistic ethics" could paste the article in here, that would be handy :-) NWN
You can view the article with tor. Just go to duckduckgo type a search for GQ Silk Road. The article should come right up.
i just copy and pasted in a reg browser
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So this would be in the "clear web" if I understand the distinction. I may not understand security processes yet. So, I'm thinking I would need to reboot my computer (im in Tails) and use a regular browser to get there (safely).
You can view the article with tor.
Not only that, you MUST view the article over Tor. NEVER view a clearnet site posted on this forum over a regular internet connection.
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i just copy and pasted in a reg browser
Do you understand the security implications of that? LE could create a web site that nobody knows about and visits. They could post the link on this forum, and every IP address in the server log would be a forum member. If those are real IP addresses (not exit nodes), they could subpoena the ISPs to learn the identities.
In this case, you're pretty safe because lots of people around the world will be reading that article, but you should be in the habit of visiting all clearnet sites posted on this forum over Tor.
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Great article and this is one reason I use tor for everything. I only wish it was around when I was hacking satellites
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i just copy and pasted in a reg browser
... you should be in the habit of visiting all clearnet sites posted on this forum over Tor.
Thanks to Astor and everyone who suggested ways of seeing the article. Basic security lessons ought to be in a sticky or something. Maybe they are and I missed them so far (quite possible).
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Thanks Eiley, that was a good read. I enjoy the details in yours too, well done.
Your DrugBuddy.
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Great article! It makes me proud to be a part of it all. I'm really proud of the side of the fence i'm sitting on with the majority of you on these forums. 90% of the computer/security knowledge that i have has been learned from members of this community. It's going to be a lot of work for LE to hurt this place. It will be easier for them to solve real crimes. This site has moved our fruit way up the tree. I'm proud we're not low hanging anymore. Stay diligent!
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i just copy and pasted in a reg browser
Do you understand the security implications of that? LE could create a web site that nobody knows about and visits. They could post the link on this forum, and every IP address in the server log would be a forum member. If those are real IP addresses (not exit nodes), they could subpoena the ISPs to learn the identities.
In this case, you're pretty safe because lots of people around the world will be reading that article, but you should be in the habit of visiting all clearnet sites posted on this forum over Tor.
good looking out astor
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I hear the pride, and it's well-deserved. You're an amazing bunch. I hope to earn a place among your most respected.
Nevertheless, I would prefer we all flew beneath the radar.
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I found this bit most interesting:
That does not mean the hunt is over. "Traditional law-enforcement methods still apply," said Sandvik. "Writing-style analysis, looking at how people behave - when they post, when the site is available."
Considering the lengthy missives DPR has written, this should concern him.
There's a fascinating Youtube link in this article that discusses how advanced writing-style techniques are and how they are being used to identify hackers on underground boards:
http://www.theage.com.au/it-pro/security-it/why-hackers-should-be-afraid-of-how-they-write-20130116-2csdo.html
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I found this bit most interesting:
That does not mean the hunt is over. "Traditional law-enforcement methods still apply," said Sandvik. "Writing-style analysis, looking at how people behave - when they post, when the site is available."
Considering the lengthy missives DPR has written, this should concern him.
There's a fascinating Youtube link in this article that discusses how advanced writing-style techniques are and how they are being used to identify hackers on underground boards: ...
http://www.theage.com.au/it-pro/security-it/why-hackers-should-be-afraid-of-how-they-write-20130116-2csdo.html
If you look at his posts starting from the beginning, you will actually notice that the style changes.
Some are well-thought out with precisely constructed sentences. Some are only a few words with minor punctuation. His greeting also changes every now and then.
I think it is safe to say that he is an east-coaster. If there is more SR down time during this blizzard over here then id put money on the fact that the servers are also located on the east coast. During Sandy was the last major SR outage.
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Every news article is free advertising. SR owes most its popularity to the media, since it has done zero advertising of its own. SR's unprecedented popularity means buyers can choose from hundreds of vendors, unlike any other drug site, and vendors have access to tens of thousands of customers, unlike any other drug site. We all win.
If the infrastructure is really secure, as DPR says, then I welcome it.
I especially like where Adrian Chen said that people were emailing him about how to get on SR. He acts all moralistic, but really he doesn't give a shit. He continued to write new articles about SR, knowing they would increase the site's popularity, because those articles get him tons of hits.
I'd +1 you if I could, you've got some valid points.
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Considering the lengthy missives DPR has written, this should concern him.
They would need a bunch of writing that he posted on clearnet to compare it to and use that to identify him, otherwise it's useless.
As long as he never had a blog, he should be fine with regard to writing analysis.
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Great article and this is one reason I use tor for everything. I only wish it was around when I was hacking satellites
This gave me a chuckle! wish I could +1 you! Ill be back to do so :)
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i just copy and pasted in a reg browser
Do you understand the security implications of that? LE could create a web site that nobody knows about and visits. They could post the link on this forum, and every IP address in the server log would be a forum member. If those are real IP addresses (not exit nodes), they could subpoena the ISPs to learn the identities.
In this case, you're pretty safe because lots of people around the world will be reading that article, but you should be in the habit of visiting all clearnet sites posted on this forum over Tor.
or you could purchase the usage of a VPN service for peanuts that you can use over the top of TOR for an added layer of security and anonymity :P
Personally I subscribe to four different ones and rotate my usage. They also encrypt all your internet traffic also to save your arse from prying eyes. 8)
The fastest is privateinternetaccess.com but the most versatile is hidemyass.com ;)
Hope this helps - JWM :)
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DO NOT USE HIDEMYASS.COM
This is the site that turned over information on members of Anonymous who used their VPN. People are in jail because of them. So I would recommend doing your research and NOT using them. Don't believe everything you read, even on here.
Privateintnernetaccess is a good company however, from all that's been seen so far at any rate.
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Interesting to hear about HIDEMYASS. I have used their free service on occasion. I'm done.
Anybody know anything about Jondonym? They discuss combining it with TOR.
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Nice read... DPR inspirational guy.
...or gal. ;)
It seems like their conclusions about "a bitcoin wallet with lots of money in it" are so loose they wouldn't stand a chance in court. Still, all it takes is one slip up for someone big (DPR or a big vendor) to get busted. Investigators probably make most progress off of people's sloppiness, not from actual detective work.
If they caught DPR he would almost certainly go to jail. They'd have to fuck that investigation BIG time for it to turn out any other way. IMO anyhow. You're right though. Sloppiness all around. People watch cop shows that tie everything up in an hour and get this impression of law enforcement as a well-oiled criminal-snatching machine. The truth is far from that. A good book that illustrates this is Helter Skelter. It's written by the lawyer who prosecuted Charley Manson, and it's fucking phenomenal. It's one of a handful of book I find myself recommending on a monthly basis.
This... to your last sentence. I know for a fact, that the majority of your major drug busts, happen on a routine traffic stop where there is no other suspicion, but for the violation that the individual was stopped for. Then, a mistake is made by the citizen and boom goes the dynamite.
And you have just made me add Helter Skelter to my reading list.
If DPR ever gets caught I'm gonna quit my job and make a movie about his life.
Dude, I feel you! On some Cocaine Cowboys type!
I found this bit most interesting:
That does not mean the hunt is over. "Traditional law-enforcement methods still apply," said Sandvik. "Writing-style analysis, looking at how people behave - when they post, when the site is available."
Considering the lengthy missives DPR has written, this should concern him.
There's a fascinating Youtube link in this article that discusses how advanced writing-style techniques are and how they are being used to identify hackers on underground boards: ...
http://www.theage.com.au/it-pro/security-it/why-hackers-should-be-afraid-of-how-they-write-20130116-2csdo.html
If you look at his posts starting from the beginning, you will actually notice that the style changes.
Some are well-thought out with precisely constructed sentences. Some are only a few words with minor punctuation. His greeting also changes every now and then.
I think it is safe to say that he is an east-coaster. If there is more SR down time during this blizzard over here then id put money on the fact that the servers are also located on the east coast. During Sandy was the last major SR outage.
Hmmm... I tend the think the servers are not located on the 48 contiguous United States. I am not a techie, but I know quiiite a bit about offshore...
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I know for a fact, that the majority of your major drug busts, happen on a routine traffic stop where there is no other suspicion, but for the violation that the individual was stopped for. Then, a mistake is made by the citizen and boom goes the dynamite.
A majority of drug busts of large distribution organizations involve confidential informants. Ask any drug agent and they will tell you that CIs essential to their job. SR operates in a different way. We are all anonymous to each other. As long as nobody in DPR's real life knows that he runs this site, that major threat is eliminated.
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I know for a fact, that the majority of your major drug busts, happen on a routine traffic stop where there is no other suspicion, but for the violation that the individual was stopped for. Then, a mistake is made by the citizen and boom goes the dynamite.
A majority of drug busts of large distribution organizations involve confidential informants. Ask any drug agent and they will tell you that CIs essential to their job. SR operates in a different way. We are all anonymous to each other. As long as nobody in DPR's real life knows that he runs this site, that major threat is eliminated.
astor, I wasn't clear.
Every bust that happens, on a dealer level, reflects this.
Then for those at the dealer level to avoid time, or get reduced time, they flip.
However, top level abroad, top level domestic, yeah, they are on a surveillance, espionage, infiltration level at that point.
I like SR because I don't know my connect, my connect doesn't know me, so what information do I have to give up? ::)
I appreciate the correction.
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URGH, I'M SO PISSED AT THIS ARTICLE!
There's a picture of a gun(I think it's the M4A3) and then under the picture there's: "Silkroad", LIKE WHAT THE FK! It has never been "legal" to sell guns on SR. and there's more guns which have: "Silkroad" written under them....
It was on the Armory, but it's closed now.... UGH....
A good read though, it's not all like: "Drugs are the devil, so SR is the devil, KILL THE DEVIL!" kind of typing, lol.
All the very best to you all!
~~sitamaja
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hahha I loved this part:
Asked if there was any way to shut down the site, Sandvik shrugged. "The Silk Road is a custom-built website, so you could hack it - but even if it were possible to take it down that way, legally you can't. In the UK, you'd be breaking the Computer Misuse Act."
Taking down the site with hacking would be illegal in the UK, hah, suck it laws!
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That's when they secretly coordinate with LE in some third world country that doesn't have those laws.
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That's when they secretly coordinate with LE in some third world country that doesn't have those laws.
Yes, that is the USA and her Rendition programme all over again.
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hahha I loved this part:
Asked if there was any way to shut down the site, Sandvik shrugged. "The Silk Road is a custom-built website, so you could hack it - but even if it were possible to take it down that way, legally you can't. In the UK, you'd be breaking the Computer Misuse Act."
Taking down the site with hacking would be illegal in the UK, hah, suck it laws!
I love it!
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LE will never find the dreaded pirate