Silk Road forums
Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: misirlou on January 20, 2013, 08:00 pm
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I just bought some 100mg 5-htp tablets online from the UK after doing some research. ( 5-htp is not allowed to be sold in my country)
They should help to get my serotonine levels back up and take the down and fucked up feeling away the days after doing uppers like mdma, coke, mephedrone...
ANyone got experience or advice for this post loading product?
Can I take it during the comedown or wait untill the day after?
I guess the best is to take it before going to bed?
cheers
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I would start taking it the morning after rolling, 100 mg 2 or 3 times a day, for a few days. I think it helps with MDMA up to a point. If you're rolling 4 times a week, 5-HTP won't help. I also don't think it helps with drugs like coke that don't deplete serotonin. The best thing you can do is take more time off between rolling, or any drug use for that matter.
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The days after coke:
Take L-tyrosine (restores dopamine) + Vitamin C + B6 (to fight free radicals created by L-Tyrosine) in the morning, on an empty stomach, and 5-HTP at night. Do this as long as you like, but if you are gonna do it for a little longer, take a break during the weekend. Oh, and there is a ratio of tyrosine / 5HTP to respect if you don't wanna fuck up your brain. The ratio is 10 : 1. That is, if you take 500mg tyrosine, take 50 mg 5htp. And as usual, a good multivitamin never hurts.
After this treatment, both your serotonin and dopamine will be replenished.
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Well fuck me, that's the most solid answer EVAH I got here. (on SR I mean)
The days after coke:
Take L-tyrosine (restores dopamine) + Vitamin C + B6 (to fight free radicals created by L-Tyrosine) in the morning, on an empty stomach, and 5-HTP at night. Do this as long as you like, but if you are gonna do it for a little longer, take a break during the weekend. Oh, and there is a ratio of tyrosine / 5HTP to respect if you don't wanna fuck up your brain. The ratio is 10 : 1. That is, if you take 500mg tyrosine, take 50 mg 5htp. And as usual, a good multivitamin never hurts.
After this treatment, both your serotonin and dopamine will be replenished.
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I would start taking it the morning after rolling, 100 mg 2 or 3 times a day, for a few days. I think it helps with MDMA up to a point. If you're rolling 4 times a week, 5-HTP won't help. I also don't think it helps with drugs like coke that don't deplete serotonin. The best thing you can do is take more time off between rolling, or any drug use for that matter.
You don't get sleepy if you take it 3 times during the day?
Got a job to attend :)
I don't roll that much, mdma and coke like just couple a times a year but I digg mephedrone like max once in 3 weeks.
But I can have breaks for like 2 months.
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I've tried the 200 mg/day 5-htp supplement before, but found it to have little to no effect.
Normally there are no adverse effects either, but you should not take this whenever you are taking ssri's as it can result in serotonin syndrome which can end rather badly.
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Take L-tyrosine (restores dopamine)
I wish L-DOPA was unregulated like 5-HTP is.
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Not a doc but was told by a friend who's sister is and she advise using L-Tryptophan instead as it helps the body replace seratonin naturally rather than falsely if ya get my drift!
A healthy diet is important too using foods with L-Tryptophan in them (look them up online).
Don't take on the day of rolling but you can use 3 days leading up to it and then 3 days after your night.
And the best is not to do too much on a night which I've learnt getting older. Max 250mg because the rest after that is wasted in my opinion.
As I say, I'm not a doc but look for what I've said online and check it out.
Pillreports.com is good and it's sister site Bluelight thought me a lot!
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Not a doc but was told by a friend who's sister is and she advise using L-Tryptophan instead as it helps the body replace seratonin naturally rather than falsely if ya get my drift!
A healthy diet is important too using foods with L-Tryptophan in them (look them up online).
Don't take on the day of rolling but you can use 3 days leading up to it and then 3 days after your night.
And the best is not to do too much on a night which I've learnt getting older. Max 250mg because the rest after that is wasted in my opinion.
As I say, I'm not a doc but look for what I've said online and check it out.
Pillreports.com is good and it's sister site Bluelight thought me a lot!
While you are right, proper diet always does more than taking supplements, but if you are just trying to replenish your dopamine reserves after a roll, I think 5-HTP isn't a bad idea. Sure you can get the L-Tryptophan from food, but in reality, taking the 5-HTP isn't much different, and might even be better if I'm not mistaken.
From what I understand, the way it works as far as your body breaking things down, it goes.... food-->L-Tryptophan-->5-HTP-->serotonin(SOMEONE CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG!!!) So in a way, its really all the same, with the 5-HTP, you are just able to get a more accurate idea of how much serotonin you will be able to replace.
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Hope this helps! :)
5-HTP is the direct precursor to serotonin (5-HT). It is created from tryptophan in your diet using the enzyme tryptophan hydroxylase (TPH). MDMA can reduce TPH levels for weeks after use which will make it harder for your body to produce the necessary 5-HT from normal dietary sources alone. Since 5-HTP does not need TPH, supplementing it the few days following your roll will help you body restore it's 5-HT levels. 5-HTP can pass your blood brain barrier, while 5-HT cannot. This means that when you supplement 5-HTP, you want to make sure it gets converted to 5-HT in your brain and not your periphery. The enzyme that converts 5-HTP to 5-HT is aromatic L-amino acid decarboxylase. It is found in your stomach and periphery, as well as your brain. This means that we have to inhibit it, so that your 5-HTP has time to pass your blood brain barrier. EGCG is an inhibitor of L-amino acid decarboxylase (also known as DOPA decarboxylase). ALWAYS take EGCG with your 5-HTP to ensure that your brain is getting the serotonin, and not your periphery. Excess 5-HT in the periphery can cause heart valve damage (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15781732) so it is typically advised to only post-load with 100mg 5-HTP for 1-2 weeks following a roll at bedtime.
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Not a doc but was told by a friend who's sister is and she advise using L-Tryptophan instead as it helps the body replace seratonin naturally rather than falsely if ya get my drift!
A healthy diet is important too using foods with L-Tryptophan in them (look them up online).
Don't take on the day of rolling but you can use 3 days leading up to it and then 3 days after your night.
And the best is not to do too much on a night which I've learnt getting older. Max 250mg because the rest after that is wasted in my opinion.
As I say, I'm not a doc but look for what I've said online and check it out.
Pillreports.com is good and it's sister site Bluelight thought me a lot!
While you are right, proper diet always does more than taking supplements, but if you are just trying to replenish your dopamine reserves after a roll, I think 5-HTP isn't a bad idea. Sure you can get the L-Tryptophan from food, but in reality, taking the 5-HTP isn't much different, and might even be better if I'm not mistaken.
From what I understand, the way it works as far as your body breaking things down, it goes.... food-->L-Tryptophan-->5-HTP-->serotonin(SOMEONE CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG!!!) So in a way, its really all the same, with the 5-HTP, you are just able to get a more accurate idea of how much serotonin you will be able to replace.
I used 5-HTP until the guy's sister advised using L-Tryptophan instead and the truth is I never researched it but just switched anyway going on her word. I liked the idea of assisting the body to produce it naturally rather than jumping ahead and replacing it instantly. Would be nice to talk to a pro. on it to get the best advice!
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Not a doc but was told by a friend who's sister is and she advise using L-Tryptophan instead as it helps the body replace seratonin naturally rather than falsely if ya get my drift!
The difference between L-DOPA and 5-HTP and the amino acids those two are biosynth'd from is that L-DOPA and 5-HTP both defeat a bodily auto-regulation system in the chemical synth pathways.
Both L-Tryptophan and L-Tyrosine are converted to 5-HTP and L-DOPA by enzymes that are regulated in order to preserve the hedonic treadmill in the brain.
The body's evolution has forced this auto-regulation upon the mind to prevent you getting a sense of reward without "earning" it.
Most doctors, having been trained by the State to avoid touching the mesolimbic reward pathway in even the tiniest way will recommend that you eat the amino acids rather than the metabolites because they defeat the body's regulation system.
5-HTP and L-DOPA (if that's legal in your country) will allow you to restore neural reserves faster.
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Just because you ingest a precursor, like tryptophan, doesn't mean your body is going to use all of it (or even some of it) in the production of the desired end-result. This is just like taking pro-vitamins instead of vitamins. Conceptually a great idea, but in practice it can be lacking.
If it's freezing cold outside, don't hand me a sheep, go ahead and give me the wool sweater instead. Finished products for the win!
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Just because you ingest a precursor, like tryptophan, doesn't mean your body is going to use all of it (or even some of it) in the production of the desired end-result. This is just like taking pro-vitamins instead of vitamins. Conceptually a great idea, but in practice it can be lacking.
If it's freezing cold outside, don't hand me a sheep, go ahead and give me the wool sweater instead. Finished products for the win!
Sheep! I wonder what sheeps taste like?
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Well I did a roll on mdma yesterday and took 200mg of 5-htp before going to bed and some vitamine C tablets yesterday and the day before and today.
It's definitely working something because I feel pretty okay today besides being a bit tired ( I did walked around a lot :) )
Normally I feel pretty shitty the days after mdma.
I will continue to take some 5-htp and vitimane C in the next couple of days.
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Just make damn sure you stop taking it before doing mdma again.
I have nothing against 5-htp or mdma on itself, but the combination can cause serious complications.
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No one should ever take L-DOPA, L-Tryptophan, or 5-HTP.
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No one should ever take L-DOPA, L-Tryptophan, or 5-HTP.
YOu're right about L-Dopa, but why no tryptophan or htp ?
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Take L-tyrosine (restores dopamine)
I wish L-DOPA was unregulated like 5-HTP is.
In my country both are regulated :-\
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No one should ever take L-DOPA, L-Tryptophan, or 5-HTP.
Taking no tryptophan means you should basically stop eating. It's abundant in turkey in folklore, but every single organism has tryptophan in its proteins, in variable amounts. Not that this matters as it is digested perfectly well, and the idea of tryptophan in turkey causing drowsiness has no scientific merit. Eating a highly caloric meal of any kind does, however, so there is a good reason to be all pooped out after a thanksgiving eating binge.
As for 5-HTP, it seems there is no prove that supplement amounts like 100-200 mg/day are dangerous in any way by themselves. Only when you combine it with serotonin reuptake inhibitors they become dangerous. There seems to be little proven benefit of taking such doses of 5-HTP either though, so you could reconsider taking the risk, if any.
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No one should ever take L-DOPA, L-Tryptophan, or 5-HTP.
YOu're right about L-Dopa, but why no tryptophan or htp ?
I've posted extensively regarding this subject, check my old posts (through my profile)
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No one should ever take L-DOPA, L-Tryptophan, or 5-HTP.
YOu're right about L-Dopa, but why no tryptophan or htp ?
I've posted extensively regarding this subject, check my old posts (through my profile)
Please copy and paste. I have been looking into l-dopa. I understand if abused it would do more harm than good. The only reason i can understand for avoiding 5-htp is if you have it heavy in your diet. The only other reason i could think of is when combining with other serotonin things and leading to serotonin syndrome. What about people who have a deficiency in their stomach converting the amino acids and have to use 5 htp because of low serotonin levels? Do you believe there is a correlation between lower serotonin levels and depression? What about eating disorders? I ask, because i asked my doctor about using 5 htp and he said not to mess with the stuff. But, he could write me a prescription for a SSRI if i was depressed.
I thought that 5-htp created new serotonin. In a sense you're putting more gas in the tank. I thought SSRI's regulate the amount of serotonin that is adsorbed. Since it recycles. Would you consider an SSRI like pushing the gas pedal in a car. (That is if the gas didn't burn up and was just recycled to the tank.)
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Im no expert on the subject but i frequently roll and take 5-htp between rolls and especially after the comedown for 2 days and i have noticed that i roll harder after I have used 5-htp then on weeks i havn't.
I would also be careful as i have heard it can be dangerous if taken while rolling on the premise that mdma causes you to release serotonin while 5-htp helps replenish serotonin. Combining them can possibly lead to serotonin neurotoxicity.
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Personally, I've always got along well with tryptophan, though in earlier days I only appreciated it for the vivid technocolour dreams it would provide. Glad to see that silly scare from the dark ages is over and USA/UK have removed the ban.
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Serotonin was first discovered as the substance that caused intestinal peristalsis - it is responsible for the rhythmic contractions of digestion. Later it was found again in platelets, which release it in response to injury, in the process of forming blood clots.
Only after LSD was ‘accidentally’ discovered, and someone noticed that the LSD molecule contains within it the tryptamine molecule, did people begin to study the psychological effects of serotonin.
It has since been established that serotonin is closely associated with shock. It is released from platelets (and neurons) in response to persistent stressful conditions, and in rats is responsible for the phenomenon known as ‘learned helplessness’. It suppresses mitochondrial respiration, scrambling the fine cellular structure required for efficient energy production, and causes calcium to enter cells, which eventually kills them. It is neurotoxic. Psychologically, it is associated with sterotyped actions and behavioral inflexibility, and high levels impair memory consolidation. High blood serotonin levels have been found in relation to autism and depression (yes, depression). Muscle fatigue, like that which you feel after intense exercise, is in large part caused by serotonin - this is why BCAAs, which compete with tryptophan for entry into cells, and reduce serotonin activity, are effective at preventing exercise-induced fatigue. The ease of producing energy after one takes MDMA, and the transcendence of mental limitations produced by LSD, are related to those substances binding to proteins that were previously occupied by serotonin, exerting a different effect on those proteins than would serotonin (although, as always, many other proteins are involved). I have no doubt that any perceived beneficial effects of taking 5-HTP or tryptophan are related to compensatory reactions that result in a net decrease in serotonergic activity. This is how SSRI ‘work’, and why they take weeks before an effect is noticed.
Tryptophan is found in high concentrations in muscles (meat) and dairy, as well as many grains. Very few people are deficient in tryptophan - virtually everyone has excessive amounts of it. It is released from muscle during intense exercise, when increased energy demands promote the catabolism of muscle protein and the release of free tryptophan. On the other hand, chances are anyone who’s reading this does not get enough glycine, proline, leucine, valine, alanine. Chances are you don’t even know what those are, but because you’ve heard of serotonin and dopamine, which are ‘neurotransmitters’, you assume that taking them must be ‘better’ than not taking them.
A hundred years ago people were taking radium suppositories to prevent cancer. Those people knew about as much about radium as the average person today knows about serotonin, yet they gladly stuck it up their asses because all of their friends were talking about it and there were ads in magazines.
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Hey Tryptamine, do you have any articles or sources for these claims ?
- It has since been established that serotonin is closely associated with shock.
- It suppresses mitochondrial respiration, scrambling the fine cellular structure required for efficient energy production, and causes calcium to enter cells, which eventually kills them. It is neurotoxic.
- high levels impair memory consolidation. High blood serotonin levels have been found in relation to autism and depression (yes, depression). Muscle fatigue, like that which you feel after intense exercise, is in
It seems to me that these are consequences of serotonin syndrome, and not moderate use of tryptophan. You sound all knowledgable, but do you have any backup to those claims ?
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I have a good amount of experience with taking neurotransmitter precursors, and have a fairly strong understanding of their effect. First off, don't listen to tryptamine up there. High levels of serotonin does have it's health risks, but he doesn't know what he is talking about.
First off, you're going to want to take any precursors (5-htp, l-tyrosine, l-tryptophan, etc) with vitamin B-6. It helps convert the precursors into usable neurotransmitters.
I believe it's very important to take 5-HTP or some other serotonin precursor after MDMA. I'll explain why.
Neurons communicate with each other by releasing chemicals known as neurotransmitters into a small gap between two cells. This gap is called the "synapse". The sending cell releases neurotransmitters into the synapse, and these neurotransmitters are detected by 'receptors' on the receiving cell. Keep in mind, though, that the neurotransmitters never actually enter the receiving cell. Once the receptor detects the neurotransmitter presence in the synapse, it releases the neurotransmitter back into the synapse and it then exits the synapse by re-entering the sending cell through a 're-uptake transporter', and then is either broken down or recycled and released again later.
Most drugs work as "re-uptake inhibitors". Basically, they block the re-uptake transporters, leading to artificially inflated levels of neurotransmitter inside of the synapse. This causes the receptors to be triggered excessively, creating the mind-altering effect. Most drugs do not 'drain' neurotransmitters, they simply cause a build-up of neurotransmitters. The crash from most drugs is not due to a 'lack' of dopamine or other neurotransmitter.
MDMA, however, is different, as it is NOT a re-uptake inhibitor. MDMA, through a mechanism we don't fully understand, causes the sending cell to "dump" all of its serotonin into the synapse, draining the bodies serotonin reserves. The crash from MDMA is caused by several factors, one of which is believed to be attributed to a lack of serotonin.
The lack of serotonin can be particularly dangerous. When serotonin levels in the synapse drop below a certain point, dopamine is believed to mistakenly enter the serotonin re-uptake transporters. When dopamine enters the serotonin re-uptake transporters and enters the incorrect sending cell, it is broken down into H2O2, or hydrogen peroxide, and kills that serotonin cell.
Because of this effect, it is absolutely imperative to the safety of MDMA users that they ensure their serotonin levels stay within a safe level. The most important thing is to take moderate doses. However, some believe that taking 5-HTP, a serotonin precursor, can help mitigate this effect.
To post-load with 5-HTP after MDMA use, take 100 mg as you start coming down, and another 100mg once you are all the way down. Then, take 100 mg the next day.
Because MDMA is unique in that it is one of the only drugs that causes the synapse to drain its neurotransmitter reserves, taking neurotransmitter precursors to mitigate the aftereffects of other drugs is not quite as direct a treatment. Any benefit from taking 5-HTP or L-tyrosine after using another type of drug is due to the drug-like effect of 5-HTP or L-tyrosine, not from the reversal of the crash.
With that said, I do find l-tyrosine and 5-HTP to be quite effecting in helping with dopaminergic drug withdrawal/crash, as l-tyrosine does increase dopamine levels somewhat, and 5-HTP can help mitigate depression symptoms.
As stated earlier, 5-HTP does have some long-term health risks. There are serotonin receptors all over our body, not just in our brain. Taking 5-HTP supplements increase serotonin concentrations in our bloodstream even moreso than the increase in our neurons. That's not particularly unhealthy, but since the majority of the serotonin receptors are located in our gut, it can lead to intestinal discomfort, and some muscle fatigue. There haven't been any longitudinal studies on the long-term effects of it, but it does appear that discontinuing supplementation will lead to a discontinuation of any negative symptoms.
Personally, I do take 5-HTP supplementation on and off. I find it helps me focus and stay a little cheerier throughout the day. 100mg is waaay too much when taken every day, though. I take 25-50mg of time-release 5-HTP, and even that is too much sometimes. Excess 5-HTP will make you groggy, feel like you're in a fog, and lazy, and won't increase the psychological benefits, in fact it will largely decrease it. I believe that's why the current research doesn't state it to be particularly beneficial. Most current studies use 200mg of daily 5-HTP supplementation. That is a ludicrously high number for long-term daily supplementation, of course it didn't work.
With MDMA post-loading, however, I recommend a relatively higher amount of 5-HTP. As stated earlier, I recommend 100mg as you start to come down, 100 mg once you're all the way down, then 100mg the next morning. Preferably Instant release, but time release will do as well. Also, I recommend taking it with B6 or a B-Complex containing B6.
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asdf, you may have read a popular science book, or taken an introductory neurobiology course, but you should not be giving advice about nutritional supplements.
All you have done is recapitulate the theoretical model of the chemical synapse. This model comprises a post-hoc rationalization of the results of certain in-vitro experiments. It is ‘true’, in a limited sense, but it has NO PREDICTIVE POWER. I studied neuroscience at a university, and discovered, to my dismay, that such models as were posted above are only good for rationalizing, say, what an antidepressant drug may interact with. Still, I’ll humour you:
MDMA exerts is characteristic effects by binding to proteins, at sites which are normally occupied by 5-HT (et al). This displaces serotonin from binding to the protein; some of this diffuses out of the cell. The characteristic effects of MDMA (and LSD, and DMT, and all other drugs) are NOT due to the serotonin (or dopamine) that is released. While these do contribute, each drug’s distinctive effects are produced by the inductive effect they have on the protein to which they bind. 5HT2A-5HT reacts differently than 5-HT2A-LSD. This is why not all drugs that ‘release serotonin’ have the same physiological effects. Such a view trivializes the complexity and variety of psychedelic drugs, and is popular among neuroscientists who avoid and fear them, hoping to reduce them to something they can understand.
These models tell you NOTHING about physiology. They cannot anticipate the effects of drugs on humans. Neuroscientists tend to imagine that the brain works by different rules than the rest of the body, and that the glorified circuit diagrams of receptors/transporters/channels/pumps can somehow explain brain function. A discussion of this is beyond the scope of this post, but suffice to say that the brain is primarily an organ, and brain cells are primarily cells, albeit highly excitable cells. Physiology trumps neuroscience when it comes to actual health outcomes.
I’ve been designing and selling nutritional supplements on the Road for nearly 2 years, and I’ve not received a single negative review of my products. My MindFood capsules are effective at preventing the adverse effects of MDMA, and they contain no amino acids except for a small amount of glycine (now THAT’S an amino acid people should be taking more of). Taking pure, ‘free flowing’ amino acids is dangerous, especially glutamate, aspartate, DOPA, and 5HTP, which can easily be neurotoxic, ESPECIALLY if you take them with B6. The first version of my ChillPill, over a year ago, contained a small amount (~30mg) of 5-HTP - upon reading more critically about it, I removed it from my products and apologized to my customers. There’s a reason why there aren’t any other products like mine - it’s easy to cram a bunch of amino acids and enzyme inhibitors into a pill (like Onnit’s AlphaBrain) that makes people ‘feel something’; it’s much more difficult to prevent and repair brain damage.
For whoever asked for references: If you have journal subscriptions through an academic institution, you should search “Serotonin mitochondria”, “serotonin calcium”, “serotonin respiration”, “serotonin autism”, et cetera. If you don’t, a google search might turn up something.
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Tryptamine,
You criticize the current model for a neuron because "it cannot anticipate the effects of drugs on humans." Well of course it cant. At this point in time, virtually no model can completely predict the effect a drug will have. I don't understand your criticism of neuroscience and your praise of "physiology". To me, it makes no sense. Neuroscience IS physiology. It's just a more specific branch of it.
I will not argue with the fact that long-term excess serotonin can be dangerous. There's no arguing with that, it's been proven. However, when post-loading, research has discovered that SSRI's, prozac in particular, completely mitigate the neurotoxic effects of MDMA, even when introduced AFTER the peak. However, in these experiments the prozac was injected directly into the rats experimented on. Oral SSRI's do not work in the same way, and supplementation would simply block the effects of MDMA. However, these experiments do prove that the neurotoxicity of MDMA can be mitigated. We cannot, of course, extrapolate these results directly to 5-HTP, but from these experiments we can extract theories on the causes of MDMA neurotoxicity. The current leading theory on the neurotoxic effects of MDMA are that dopamine travels up the serotonin transporter due to lowered serotonin levels in the synapse. Taking 5-HTP would likely help with this. There is no debate that 5-HTP is definitely effective at increasing synaptic serotonin levels, so its fair to draw the conclusion that 5-HTP could decrease the chances of neurotoxicity. Also, I don't see how post-loading with 5-HTP once a month after MDMA usage could possibly be dangerous. The possible benefits far outweigh the possible risks.
Also,
MDMA exerts is characteristic effects by binding to proteins, at sites which are normally occupied by 5-HT (et al). This displaces serotonin from binding to the protein; some of this diffuses out of the cell
Can you explain this further. In a way, I guess this does explain the basic model of the current theory of the mechanism of MDMA. However, the way I understand it is that it alters the function of the SERT in such a way that they begin pumping serotonin OUT of the cell rather than back in. This explains the fact that prozac and other SSRI's completely block the effects of MDMA.
This is why not all drugs that ‘release serotonin’ have the same physiological effects. Such a view trivializes the complexity and variety of psychedelic drugs, and is popular among neuroscientists who avoid and fear them, hoping to reduce them to something they can understand.
Absolutely no self-respecting neuroscientist would ever view drugs as such. In fact, that is the exact argument I was making in my earlier post to explain to those without an understanding of neuroscience. MDMA is one of the ONLY common psychoactive drugs that actually releases a neurotransmitter. The rest act as agonists, antagonists, or reuptake inhibitors. Therefore, your statement about protein affinity is moot when dealing with MDMA.
You sell these 'nutritional supplements' riddled with 'nootropics' and 'smart drugs' of whose mechanisms are barely understood. These chemicals fall closer to the research chemical category than the nutritional supplement category. Really, they are just a new class of stimulants that are not fully understood yet. Many of these have inherent risks just as great as with 5-HTP, possibly more-so due to the lack of research surrounding them, and I don't see any evidence that they would even slightly mitigate the neurotoxic effects of MDMA. The hangover, maybe, but that's just due to the obfuscation of negative feelings due to the drug-like effect of the nootropics. You're not actually treating any of the causes.
I'm not saying amino acids aren't without their risks. But, with that said, you can't down-talk amino acids, which are already found in our body, while trying to sell research chemicals whose mechanisms aren't even understood. You talk down to 5-HTP, while selling a supplement that contains L-DOPA, which has a much more documented and powerful neurotoxicity.
I may not be a doctor, but I doubt your true understanding of the topic.
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First of all, none of my supplements contain L-DOPA, or any other free-form amino acid apart from a small amount of glycine, which is harmless. The only time I’ve ever mentioned L-DOPA is to criticise Onnit for using it (back when they still did) and recommend that it not be used. My products contain vitamins, metabolites, and herbal extracts, bioidentical when possible, at quantities that preclude adverse effects. NooPept is a ‘pro-drug’ for cyclo-prolyl-glycine, a highly beneficial endogenous dipeptide, it should be considered a metabolite, not a ‘research chemical’.
Do you take glutamic acid and aspartic acid? They’re neurotransmitter precursors, you see. Glutamate is an excitatory neurotransmitter. Don’t you want to be excited? Glutamic acid is in everything, what could go wrong?
I don’t ‘down-talk’ amino acids; how many amino acids do you know of? Do you know about valine? Or lysine? Proline? Arginine? What are your reasons for raising the ratio of tryptophan to all other amino acids in your body? Is tryptophan particularly important to you? What does it ‘do’? Where does it normally come from? What are its effects on cells? What about other organs, that aren’t the brain? How much even reaches the brain?
When I began developing MindFood, I needed to think about how each ingredient, as well as their combinations, could affect people adversely, not just that they were ‘neurotransmitter precursors’. If you had looked up any of the claims I had made you would be able to find evidence to support them. I do not wish to waste any more of my time arguing here, I will just reiterate that L-DOPA is easily neurotoxic, and that L-tryptophan/serotonin are anti-metabolic, carcinogenic, and cognitively impairing. There is an endogenous physiological role for them, but in virually all cases there is no benefit to be gained from supplementing.
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For an individual that creates and sells a supplement titled 'ChillPill', I'm beginning to question the efficacy of this product given your attitude. Take a breather from the abrasive and overly elitist attitude, man. You're attempting to conduct a discussion here, and instead, you are insulting individuals with rhetorical and loaded questions and wise-crack comments regarding their knowledge of amino acids ("Chances are you don’t even know what those are, but because you’ve heard of serotonin and dopamine, which are ‘neurotransmitters’, you assume that taking them must be ‘better’ than not taking them."). What do comments such as that achieve beyond peeling into who you are as an individual? Trust me, it's completely obvious that you are well versed in the subject, but there are a lot more respectable and calm methods of discussion than attempting to make your opponent feel like an idiot. Educate people, don't attack them.
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Sorry, but I'm not buying into the possibility that your average 'heavy' meth user who is on an Ethiopian diet plan and has been up for a few days (a frequent occurrence for many), has managed to accumulate an excess of dietary tryptophan or has managed to store a secret stash of 5htp or serotonin in the brain.
The obvious reaction to a shortage or depletion of these necessary components is to use supplements.
Yes, too much tryptophan/5htp/serotonin have risks, but the odds of finding a meth user with too much of these is astronomical.
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For an individual that creates and sells a supplement titled 'ChillPill', I'm beginning to question the efficacy of this product given your attitude. Take a breather from the abrasive and overly elitist attitude, man. You're attempting to conduct a discussion here, and instead, you are insulting individuals with rhetorical and loaded questions and wise-crack comments regarding their knowledge of amino acids ("Chances are you don’t even know what those are, but because you’ve heard of serotonin and dopamine, which are ‘neurotransmitters’, you assume that taking them must be ‘better’ than not taking them."). What do comments such as that achieve beyond peeling into who you are as an individual? Trust me, it's completely obvious that you are well versed in the subject, but there are a lot more respectable and calm methods of discussion than attempting to make your opponent feel like an idiot. Educate people, don't attack them.
What’s wrong with ChillPill? I think it’s an excellent name, and incredibly no one else is using it.
If you read ASDF’s post, he recommends taking 5-HTP and L-Tryptophan because they’re ‘neurotransmitter precursors’, and claims that they’re safe because they’re ‘natural amino acids’. Glutamate and aspartate are also amino acid neurotransmitters, and they’re prototypical neurotoxins. Glycine is also a neurotransmitter, and an amino acid, that can prevent many kinds of neurotoxicity, yet he did not mention it. My ‘comments’ don’t ‘peel into who I am as an individual’; I was literally restating what he said, minus the impressive-sounding but ultimately empty neurobabble.
I acknowledge that perhaps I was combatative, but his response to my post was “first of all, disregard everything tryptamine said, he doesn’t know what he’s talking about”, you may have missed that bit.
As for the efficacy of my products, you can read my review thread and the feedback on my items.
boomtemple:
Tryptophan is in everything we eat. It is found in high proportions in muscle meat, which is most people’s main source of protein, as well as in cheese, seeds/nuts, and many grains. All of these contain excessive tryptophan. If our hypothetical meth addict is eathing anything at all, he will not be tryptophan deficient. Due to his poor diet high in the aforementioned foods, however, he will be relatively deficient in other amino acids. If he’s not eating anything, he shouldn’t be taking pure free-form amino acids (that are potentially neurotoxic, especially during protein deficiency) in pills.
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Thank god your back, Tryptamine :)
Your original advice and experiencing some supplements which actually worked (MindFood) set me on a path of discovery and healing.
I am extremely thankful for that, this information and your products, were most critical in beginning a journey which has basically given me my life back. No doubt, you have changed many lives in your time here already.
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*sigh*
Tryptamine, you're getting quite off topic. If you want to badmouth my opinions on the treatment of MDMA neurotoxicity in order to sell your snake oil, feel free, but please do it in your own thread.
This should be a discussion of science, not a series of personal attacks.
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this is an interesting discussion... i've always taken 5-htp capsules (100mg) twice a day for 2 days after rolling, but now i'm questioning it.
i'm torn. who to believe?? :(
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this is an interesting discussion... i've always taken 5-htp capsules (100mg) twice a day for 2 days after rolling, but now i'm questioning it.
i'm torn. who to believe?? :(
Stepping back and looking at this I'm going to side against Tryptamine. Tryptamine has a vested interest and is even promoting his product in this thread. Those against him are arguing solely because they want to help the community and are gaining nothing by doing so.
Also, does anyone really think taking 5-HTP for a week after MDMA usage is really going to fuck you up... No one here is promoting the use of 5-HTP as a daily regimen.
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this is an interesting discussion... i've always taken 5-htp capsules (100mg) twice a day for 2 days after rolling, but now i'm questioning it.
i'm torn. who to believe?? :(
Stepping back and looking at this I'm going to side against Tryptamine. Tryptamine has a vested interest and is even promoting his product in this thread. Those against him are arguing solely because they want to help the community and are gaining nothing by doing so.
Also, does anyone really think taking 5-HTP for a week after MDMA usage is really going to fuck you up... No one here is promoting the use of 5-HTP as a daily regimen.
Vested interest? I could use 5HTP in my products if I wanted. At first I did, and then realized the error of my ways. 'those against me' are giving ignorant, irresponsible advice without regard for safety.
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this is an interesting discussion... i've always taken 5-htp capsules (100mg) twice a day for 2 days after rolling, but now i'm questioning it.
i'm torn. who to believe?? :(
Stepping back and looking at this I'm going to side against Tryptamine. Tryptamine has a vested interest and is even promoting his product in this thread. Those against him are arguing solely because they want to help the community and are gaining nothing by doing so.
Also, does anyone really think taking 5-HTP for a week after MDMA usage is really going to fuck you up... No one here is promoting the use of 5-HTP as a daily regimen.
Vested interest? I could use 5HTP in my products if I wanted. At first I did, and then realized the error of my ways. 'those against me' are giving ignorant, irresponsible advice without regard for safety.
The fact that you just gave me negative karma for my opinion shows once again that you are not in this thread in a friendly manner. Are you actually saying that dosing 100mg 5-HTP for a week after MDMA usage is harmful??
I am not claiming to be any expert in the matter, but from the little information I did look up it seems to me that 5-HTP is much like many other drugs/medications/even vitamins. RESPONSIBILITY is the main thing here. If taken over a long period of time or in high doses a might agree with you, if used as directed by some of the more educated members on here as well as resources online I see no problem with using 5-HTP.
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5HTP came into my life in the last couple of years
alongside the Valerian root and the melatonin, I love that some chemicals are still available with no hassle over the counter 8)
these supplements have helped put depression, anxiety, and fibromyalgia on their heels consistently
I do find that I have to take equivalents to 'tolerance breaks' after using these on a semi-regular basis, but the effects are undeniable
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regardless who is write here...one truth sticks out, easily
Tryptamines prices for his 'homebrew' pill concoction is utterly insane and overpriced.
in other words, you should be properly fucked in the head prior to purchasing these to begin with.
cheers
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regardless who is write here...one truth sticks out, easily
Tryptamines prices for his 'homebrew' pill concoction is utterly insane and overpriced.
in other words, you should be properly fucked in the head prior to purchasing these to begin with.
cheers
I would suggest you try both..
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regardless who is write here...one truth sticks out, easily
Tryptamines prices for his 'homebrew' pill concoction is utterly insane and overpriced.
in other words, you should be properly fucked in the head prior to purchasing these to begin with.
cheers
Not overpriced, many who have tried it say they would be willing to pay much more. Most people cannot imagine how much more expensive my products are to produce than the worthless crap they might find in a store, all of which use trivial (or dangerously excessive) quantities of dirt-cheap synthetic vitamin analogues and fillers. It’s also a lot of work to put together, since automated pharmaceutical equipment is extremely (artificially) overpriced; I guarantee I earn less per hour of work than any established vendor here. People pay hundreds of dollars, on this site, for a few grams of powder that makes them feel good for a couple of hours. How exactly is protecting your brain, or even repairing it, a waste of money?
I also give free nutritional advice to anyone who asks; this has included many dozens of SR members, many of whom never purchased anything from me. Some people have also asked for help in recreating my supplements themselves, or about the use of supplements to treat chronic disease. My aim is not to get everyone to take my supplements forever - demand nearly always exceeds supply - but rather to have people understand that they can be the stewards of their own health; that the adverse effects of drugs are largely due to malnutrition in their users; and that your conscious experience depends on what you ingest (not just psychedelics) - you are what you eat