Silk Road forums
Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: melonballer on January 09, 2013, 01:45 pm
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Americans, I'd like to take this time to offer a full, frank and heartfelt apology on behalf of the citizens of England for the recent actions of piers morgan. Although I'm certain his views are likely sidelined from the average thinking American's thought-processes, I can't help but get a little angry that piers has the audacity to try and lecture another country about gun laws when England now has terrifying amounts of knife crime (and no *legal* means to defend ourselves) due to our draconian gun laws.
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Americans, I'd like to take this time to offer a full, frank and heartfelt apology on behalf of the citizens of England for the recent actions of piers morgan. Although I'm certain his views are likely sidelined from the average thinking American's thought-processes, I can't help but get a little angry that piers has the audacity to try and lecture another country about gun laws when England now has terrifying amounts of knife crime (and no *legal* means to defend ourselves) due to our draconian gun laws.
What!?! Dude I'm English and hate Piers Morgan but i respect him for being the only man to bloody argue with someone over gun laws, What on earth do you need defending from here? Yeah you get Chav's who think they're hard for carrying a knife, If you're scared then do the normal thing and don't go near them. If we had relaxed gun laws here we'd be as fucked as America is.... Don't get me wrong i like the American people just not the government (like ours is any better) but honestly i agree with Piers something does need to be done about gun laws over there (I still think they should have weapons but there should be limits to what guns and ammo you can actually have)
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Americans, I'd like to take this time to offer a full, frank and heartfelt apology on behalf of the citizens of England for the recent actions of piers morgan. Although I'm certain his views are likely sidelined from the average thinking American's thought-processes, I can't help but get a little angry that piers has the audacity to try and lecture another country about gun laws when England now has terrifying amounts of knife crime (and no *legal* means to defend ourselves) due to our draconian gun laws.
What!?! Dude I'm English and hate Piers Morgan but i respect him for being the only man to bloody argue with someone over gun laws, What on earth do you need defending from here? Yeah you get Chav's who think they're hard for carrying a knife, If you're scared then do the normal thing and don't go near them. If we had relaxed gun laws here we'd be as fucked as America is.... Don't get me wrong i like the American people just not the government (like ours is any better) but honestly i agree with Piers something does need to be done about gun laws over there (I still think they should have weapons but there should be limits to what guns and ammo you can actually have)
Your argument is flawed on so many levels but I'll focus on just a few of them;
First flaw. Prohibition doesn't work! I would have thought someone who probably has first-hand experience on the futility of drug prohibition would realise how ineffective gun prohibition would be. Think about this; you're a criminal organisation who needs guns, are you going to just not use them because the law says you can't? Nope. When you take away guns from ordinary citizens then all you have is a population which cannot defend themselves from the criminals who WILL have guns - law or no law.
Second flaw. Assuming the criminals decide they don't want guns (amateur criminals only and the 'chavs' as you call them) because of the legality of them and the supposed increase in difficulty to obtain them are they just gonna decide they don't want to be armed? Nope. They will just use many other legal weapons, knives, tasers, baseball bats hell some people just use their car as a lethal weapon.
Third flaw. A gun can't physically kill somebody on its own. It's impossible. A gun has to be fired by someone (assuming you don't make any ridiculous counter-arguments like a faulty gun going off on it's own - which would be a retarded argument to make) which means guns don't kill people, PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE.
Sounds like you have a lot to learn about the world.
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I live in the UK and the thought of some of the people in my street having easy access to firearms is horrifying. I'm sure there's the odd nutter with a gun but it's just not an issue.
Another important point is that if gun laws were relaxed, it'd most likely mean the police would have to be armed, which is something no one wants to see.
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piers morgan might be a bellend but that alex jones bloke is a complete lunatic, I feel a lot safer and happier knowing the majority of guns in the UK belong to criminals and they generally use them against other criminals, not a bunch of kids in a school or cinema.
they took our guuuuuuns ;D
this was the best quote
"1776 will commence again" what a complete loon.
I've been to the states a few times and know a few americans living in the UK and they are lovely people, but can you blame europeans for thinking americans are dumb when you have people like alex jones??
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something does need to be done about gun laws over there (I still think they should have weapons but there should be limits to what guns and ammo you can actually have)
I like the Chris Rock solution to gun violence.
"I think all bullets should cost five thousand dollars… five thousand dollars per bullet… You know why? Cause if a bullet cost five thousand dollars there would be no more innocent bystanders. Yeah! Every time somebody get shot we'd say, 'Damn, he must have done something ... Shit, he's got fifty thousand dollars worth of bullets in his ass.' And people would think before they killed somebody if a bullet cost five thousand dollars. 'Man I would blow your fucking head off…if I could afford it.' 'I'm gonna get me another job, I'm going to start saving some money, and you're a dead man. You better hope I can't get no bullets on layaway.'"
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I have to ask anyone who is a supporter of gun prohibition and uses the gun ban in the UK as an example of success this.
If it is a success then why are there an average of 35 gun deaths per year? I thought the guns were banned. Banning guns
does not stop gun deaths nor does it stop violent crime.
As an aside, violent crime is much higher in the UK than in the US. In the US, most gun deaths are gang related and ultimately
because of drug prohibition.
I do not believe that we need to have a gun debate at all. We need to have a real discussion about violent crime and its root cause.
A discussion based on fact using logic and critical thinking. Unfortunately that is NEVER going to happen in America. Maybe around the dinner table
but it will stop there.
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What!?! Dude I'm English and hate Piers Morgan but i respect him for being the only man to bloody argue with someone over gun laws, What on earth do you need defending from here? Yeah you get Chav's who think they're hard for carrying a knife, If you're scared then do the normal thing and don't go near them. If we had relaxed gun laws here we'd be as fucked as America is.... Don't get me wrong i like the American people just not the government (like ours is any better) but honestly i agree with Piers something does need to be done about gun laws over there (I still think they should have weapons but there should be limits to what guns and ammo you can actually have)
How about a tyrannical government for starters? People seem to forget what the right to bear arms was implemented for. Not to protect yourself from burglars and murderers (although that's an added bonus) but to ensure that if a tyrant came to power he would be put down. There's something about an armed government telling me to give up my guns that doesn't sit well with me. As one man so eloquently put it "I am willing to die to protect my 2nd amendment, are you willing to die to take it away?"
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The UK and Aus have a higher violent crime rate then America. I know, it is shocking. Go look it up.
I understand the culture in the UK is much different then here in America. It is amazing to hear that some of you Brits fear your fellow citizens being armed. I do not feel that way here in America. All my neighbors have firearms and I don't fear them in the least. I actually feel safer because of it. These people are like me, and think like me. I am glad they are armed.
Heavily armed police scare the shit out of me. Heavily armed citizens make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
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Piers Morgan is a buffoon can't stand him and his attention seeking ways. The guy doesn't give two shits about anything but a shocking headline that leads to higher ratings than his normal boring ass show. Take this shithead back to the UK please.
As far as the "gun" issue I've never had a problem or known of a problem personally. I probably have 30 weapons ranging from hunting rifles/shotguns, collector items, and a few pistols for target practice. I don't have a conceal and carry permit but I've thought about getting one just so I don't have the hassle of transporting to the range. My father made me go through many safety courses before getting my first weapon and then guided me through some of the best times of my life when we hunted together. Imagine that, a parent taking responsibility for a child and teaching them the proper way to respect weapons. My opinion, there are too many laws and restrictions already. Do we really need our governments to take over parental responsibilities or your personal judgements? These are the same fk sticks who say you can't smoke Marijuana because we don't want you to.
I love people from around the world but when it comes to advice - please worry about your own country....there's plenty to keep you busy there :P
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probably been force fed amphetamines from a young age due to bad parenting, think that's the norm in the states :P :-*
you do have to worry about a nation who think a football is shaped like an egg ;D
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Alex Jones, in terms of supporting gun rights, didn't do us any favors. He went on Piers show and acted like a nut. CNN knew he would do this and that is exactly why they had him on. CNN is so far from actual news that it is ridiculous. It is a platform for the agenda of the NWO and converting the US to a socialist country.
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Mainstream media jaggoffs like Piers Morgan are being paid to spew the dogma of corporations and politicians who own the media. While I have found AJ's documentaries informative, it is unclear if he is playing the part of the "loon" that nobody wants to be like. Think Pro-wrestling. Is he being used to make anyone who questions the government to look like a tinfoil hat nut? It is hard to say.
However, due to emerging evidence, it is reasonable to conclude that there was knowledge of the Sandy Hook shooting before it happened. (There were charity websites set up before the day it went down.) Which would lead a reasonable person to conclude that there is a much more sinister plot at work. The crisis actors seen on the news, the contradicting eyewitness accounts and contradicting early reports confirm the flaws in the official story. This also goes for the massacre in the Aurora movie theatre. There are multiple eye witnesses claiming that there was someone that opened the door for the shooter. One can't easily "kick in" a move theater door that opens outward as the official narrative suggests. The lone-wolf gunman story does not make sense. It has been also noted that the fathers of both shooters had high ranking positions in finance. The Aurora shooter's father worked for FICO, a credit research company, and was allegedly supposed to testify against banking fraud. I know that the father of the most recent shooter was the vice president of GE capital bank. Very recently as well, MSNBC posted an article on their website about a 43 trillion dollar lawsuit brought against the banks for fraud by Spire Law Group LLC. The very next day, the vice president of MSNBC's children were murdered under suspicious circumstances. According to the media, the nanny lost her shit and stabbed two toddlers to death. Almost needless to say, the article was taken down the next day.
Kinda makes you wonder doesn't it?
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The UK and Aus have a higher violent crime rate then America. I know, it is shocking. Go look it up.
I understand the culture in the UK is much different then here in America. It is amazing to hear that some of you Brits fear your fellow citizens being armed. I do not feel that way here in America. All my neighbors have firearms and I don't fear them in the least. I actually feel safer because of it. These people are like me, and think like me. I am glad they are armed.
Heavily armed police scare the shit out of me. Heavily armed citizens make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
I think a lot of it too might have to do with your location. I can't get into SR to see if you mention if you are from NoCal, but yeah all of the growers in the PacNW I'm sure feel more secure when their neighbor growers are also armed because of all of the risks that are inherent with your profession. When I worked/lived on grow sites in Oregon, it was comforting to know that firearms were nearby and that they were in the hands of people that were friendly and had the same ideals as me because there is always the lingering danger of scum thieves who aren't afraid to use their guns.
Now if you go into a working class neighborhood off of Edmondson Avenue on the west side of Baltimore and go into an honest, working class home and ask them if they like that all of the corner boys have hammers, they are probably not going to be comforted by that.
So, I guess some of it must be dependent on the area you live in (rural, urban), poverty levels, etc as to how comforting it is to know that your fellow citizens are armed.
EDIT: I kinda missed the main point, and yeah, heavily armed police scare the shit outta me too.
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but can you blame europeans for thinking americans are dumb when you have people like alex jones??
And I thought that all British people are half retarded because I watched "Da Ali G Show" a couple times? America is a biiiig place people...
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but can you blame europeans for thinking americans are dumb when you have people like alex jones??
And I thought that all British people are half retarded because I watched "Da Ali G Show" a couple times? America is a biiiig place people...
+1
I've often wondered if Euros understand the huge cultural differences in the people's of America. Some of the Geo-cultural differences alone are huge.
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Jamica were sorry
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For those of you not versed in America's founding fathers and how the 2nd Amendment came to be -- and the left-wing media tries to keep our citizens ignorant of this
fact -- guns were not permitted so the people could hunt; they were meant to protect the citizens against a tyrannical government. That seemed fairly far-fetched just
four years ago, but increasingly possible with all the power grab the Feds have been doing. Forget this petty talk about "assault weapons." I say the citizens should be allowed any arms the government has, and that
includes the military. I would hate to have to use pea-shooters against scud missiles. The best defense against an armed tyrannical government is an equally armed citizenry.
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For those of you not versed in America's founding fathers and how the 2nd Amendment came to be -- and the left-wing media tries to keep our citizens ignorant of this
fact -- guns were not permitted so the people could hunt; they were meant to protect the citizens against a tyrannical government. That seemed fairly far-fetched just
four years ago, but increasingly possible with all the power grab the Feds have been doing. Forget this petty talk about "assault weapons." I say the citizens should be allowed any arms the government has, and that
includes the military. I would hate to have to use pea-shooters against scud missiles. The best defense against an armed tyrannical government is an equally armed citizenry.
I think that anybody with a 10th grade level education should know that the 2nd amendment was put into place so that we, The People, could protect ourselves against a tyrannical government. The media (I argue both the liberal and conservative outlets) does try to dissuade us of this sometimes. Really though, you can't expect a whole lot from people that get their news from their closet cities major network (NBC, ABC, CBS or FOX) affiliate.
However, I do agree that there is too large a gap between the citizen's arsenal and the government's arsenal. But, is the citizen's arsenal powerful enough to keep us from succumbing to TRUE tyranny? I don't know. Maybe for now it is, but that could change quickly I feel.
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Mainstream media jaggoffs like Piers Morgan are being paid to spew the dogma of corporations and politicians who own the media. While I have found AJ's documentaries informative, it is unclear if he is playing the part of the "loon" that nobody wants to be like. Think Pro-wrestling. Is he being used to make anyone who questions the government to look like a tinfoil hat nut? It is hard to say.
However, due to emerging evidence, it is reasonable to conclude that there was knowledge of the Sandy Hook shooting before it happened. (There were charity websites set up before the day it went down.) Which would lead a reasonable person to conclude that there is a much more sinister plot at work. The crisis actors seen on the news, the contradicting eyewitness accounts and contradicting early reports confirm the flaws in the official story. This also goes for the massacre in the Aurora movie theatre. There are multiple eye witnesses claiming that there was someone that opened the door for the shooter. One can't easily "kick in" a move theater door that opens outward as the official narrative suggests. The lone-wolf gunman story does not make sense. It has been also noted that the fathers of both shooters had high ranking positions in finance. The Aurora shooter's father worked for FICO, a credit research company, and was allegedly supposed to testify against banking fraud. I know that the father of the most recent shooter was the vice president of GE capital bank. Very recently as well, MSNBC posted an article on their website about a 43 trillion dollar lawsuit brought against the banks for fraud by Spire Law Group LLC. The very next day, the vice president of MSNBC's children were murdered under suspicious circumstances. According to the media, the nanny lost her shit and stabbed two toddlers to death. Almost needless to say, the article was taken down the next day.
Kinda makes you wonder doesn't it?
No, it does not. Unless there is factual evidence backing up anything you just said. It is extremely common for there to be contradicting eyewitnesses and early reports after a horrific violent crime. And perfectly understandable given the circumstances.
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something does need to be done about gun laws over there (I still think they should have weapons but there should be limits to what guns and ammo you can actually have)
I like the Chris Rock solution to gun violence.
"I think all bullets should cost five thousand dollars… five thousand dollars per bullet… You know why? Cause if a bullet cost five thousand dollars there would be no more innocent bystanders. Yeah! Every time somebody get shot we'd say, 'Damn, he must have done something ... Shit, he's got fifty thousand dollars worth of bullets in his ass.' And people would think before they killed somebody if a bullet cost five thousand dollars. 'Man I would blow your fucking head off…if I could afford it.' 'I'm gonna get me another job, I'm going to start saving some money, and you're a dead man. You better hope I can't get no bullets on layaway.'"
One of my favorite Chris Rock sketches! Thanks for the memory.
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It a pretty simple debate guys.
If Jesus owned a gun, he would still be alive today.
Case closed. haha
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piers morgan might be a bellend but that alex jones bloke is a complete lunatic, I feel a lot safer and happier knowing the majority of guns in the UK belong to criminals and they generally use them against other criminals, not a bunch of kids in a school or cinema.
they took our guuuuuuns ;D
this was the best quote
"1776 will commence again" what a complete loon.
I've been to the states a few times and know a few americans living in the UK and they are lovely people, but can you blame europeans for thinking americans are dumb when you have people like alex jones??
Yes I can blame Europeans for thinking Americans are dumb even after watching nut job Alex jones. Only an idiot would generalize a whole country of people because of one person's opinions.
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something does need to be done about gun laws over there (I still think they should have weapons but there should be limits to what guns and ammo you can actually have)
I like the Chris Rock solution to gun violence.
"I think all bullets should cost five thousand dollars… five thousand dollars per bullet… You know why? Cause if a bullet cost five thousand dollars there would be no more innocent bystanders. Yeah! Every time somebody get shot we'd say, 'Damn, he must have done something ... Shit, he's got fifty thousand dollars worth of bullets in his ass.' And people would think before they killed somebody if a bullet cost five thousand dollars. 'Man I would blow your fucking head off…if I could afford it.' 'I'm gonna get me another job, I'm going to start saving some money, and you're a dead man. You better hope I can't get no bullets on layaway.'"
Comedy gold right there!
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What!?! Dude I'm English and hate Piers Morgan but i respect him for being the only man to bloody argue with someone over gun laws, What on earth do you need defending from here? Yeah you get Chav's who think they're hard for carrying a knife, If you're scared then do the normal thing and don't go near them. If we had relaxed gun laws here we'd be as fucked as America is.... Don't get me wrong i like the American people just not the government (like ours is any better) but honestly i agree with Piers something does need to be done about gun laws over there (I still think they should have weapons but there should be limits to what guns and ammo you can actually have)
How about a tyrannical government for starters? People seem to forget what the right to bear arms was implemented for. Not to protect yourself from burglars and murderers (although that's an added bonus) but to ensure that if a tyrant came to power he would be put down. There's something about an armed government telling me to give up my guns that doesn't sit well with me. As one man so eloquently put it "I am willing to die to protect my 2nd amendment, are you willing to die to take it away?"
The whole thing was/is supposed to ensure our ability to overthrow our own government. Which isn't possible these days by any means.
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Well CJ most Americans think Europeans are dumb because they gave up their guns and they arent free and live under the UN AND NWO.lol
America has 150 million gun owners so Mr. Jones did tell it like it is and said what was necessary. I mean look at who he had to talk to, an idiot with a bigger mouth than his who is a piece of shit sedition committing scum. We will revolt. Period! They well get chewed up, swallowed and shitted out of the ass of the American people if they make one move or give us the moral high ground. You will see another Concord, Lexington, etcc..
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A gun is just a collection of appropriate shaped pieces of the appropriate material (metal).
The pieces fit together and can fire ammunition which is metal(s) and other chemicals.
We in the UK should be encouraged to learn how to make our own guns in the garage or workshop.
I personally could not be trusted with a gun.
99.9999% of the time I would be just fine, no one would get shot.
It's just that 0.0001% of the time when I would go a bit overboard and might shoot people.
Don't think I really would kill any body, but I don't want to have that opportunity/risk.
So I would rather have a stockpile of ammunition alongside the ability, machinery and materials to make one should the need arise.
The need to have a gun would be serious shit. Such things as overthrowing my government as part of an armed militia, riots, apocalypse, zombies, mother in laws etc.
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I am loving how warped some of the justifications for owning guns are. My favorite is the one about how the american guv'ment can turn around and become some tyrannical monster that is going to eliminate all americans hence why they need their military grade weapons.
Or how about the counter arguments by the NRA to every debate about guns..
What about kids and schools?
NRA: They should have armed guards in every school
What about fireys going to fight a blaze?
NRA: Fireman and paramedics should be carrying guns with them
What about this need to own military grade weapons?
NRA: We need to protect ourselves from tyrant governments.
Fuckne LOLZ and fucken sad at the same time!
Ahh america you are totally fucked..fail after motherfucking fail. The redknecks must be fucken suffering so much atm..you know having a black dude running the country and now wanting to take their precious weapons away from them. Wouyld suck to be an american white trash male with a mindset from the 1950s living in the 2013 USA.
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I am loving how warped some of the justifications for owning guns are. My favorite is the one about how the american guv'ment can turn around and become some tyrannical monster that is going to eliminate all americans hence why they need their military grade weapons.
Or how about the counter arguments by the NRA to every debate about guns..
What about kids and schools?
NRA: They should have armed guards in every school
What about fireys going to fight a blaze?
NRA: Fireman and paramedics should be carrying guns with them
What about this need to own military grade weapons?
NRA: We need to protect ourselves from tyrant governments.
Fuckne LOLZ and fucken sad at the same time!
Ahh america you are totally fucked..fail after motherfucking fail. The redknecks must be fucken suffering so much atm..you know having a black dude running the country and now wanting to take their precious weapons away from them. Wouyld suck to be an american white trash male with a mindset from the 1950s living in the 2013 USA.
To be honest we do have our issues in this country, but I feel I hit the lottery of life being born here. Why so much hate?
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I support the founding fathers rights to carry flintlock muskets too...
11,000 VS 35... END OF FUCKING ARGUMENT!
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The gun debate in America is ridiculous. The right to own a gun is guaranteed to every US citizen, and that will not, or should not change. This right is not just so Americans can hunt, the true reason it is there is so citizens have the means to defend themselves against the government, end of story.
The fact that American's can have guns is not responsible for the recent massacres, just the same how violent video games and violent movies and violent books are not responsible for the recent massacres. The lunatics who killed all those people are the ones who are responsible for the recent massacres. End of story.
I don't understand why this isn't common sense. I don't get why people don't realize that in a free society people are free to do what they want, and that once in a while you will have a disturbed asshole who is going to do something crazy, there is not much anyone can do about that. Is the government going to outlaw matches if some sick asshole burns down a building, killing hundreds of innocent people? No, because the matches didn't burn down the building, the sick asshole did, it is the same thing with guns.
Canada is HUGE on guns, and they play the same violent video games, watch the same violent movies, and read the same violent books as Americans, but their murder rate is nowhere near that of the USA. This shows that an armed population is not the cause of gun violence, it is something else. Maybe it is something in the water, who knows, but you can't blame the tragedy on the tool that was used. The sickle didn't harvest the crops, the farmer did. The gun didn't shoot up the school, the gunman did.
Bottom line, people are stupid and unreasonable and just won't gracefully accept the fact that sometimes people snap and tragedies happen. If you really want to try to prevent this from happening in the future, you need to help out the well being of the population. As the economy struggles and more and more young people are crushed by debt and unable to settle down and find a job and support a family and live the life they were told they could have their whole lives, violence like this is going to be on the rise. That is human nature in action.
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The whole thing was/is supposed to ensure our ability to overthrow our own government. Which isn't possible these days by any means.
And why is that? Because generations of americans have become complacent and lost the vigor that our forefathers had against tyranny. I'm sure the LA police thought they could contain a bunch of low-income civilians after the Rodney King hearing was aired. Refresh my memory how did that turn out?
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I am loving how warped some of the justifications for owning guns are. My favorite is the one about how the american guv'ment can turn around and become some tyrannical monster that is going to eliminate all americans hence why they need their military grade weapons.
Or how about the counter arguments by the NRA to every debate about guns..
What about kids and schools?
NRA: They should have armed guards in every school
What about fireys going to fight a blaze?
NRA: Fireman and paramedics should be carrying guns with them
What about this need to own military grade weapons?
NRA: We need to protect ourselves from tyrant governments.
Fuckne LOLZ and fucken sad at the same time!
Ahh america you are totally fucked..fail after motherfucking fail. The redknecks must be fucken suffering so much atm..you know having a black dude running the country and now wanting to take their precious weapons away from them. Wouyld suck to be an american white trash male with a mindset from the 1950s living in the 2013 USA.
I love how conditioned you are to believe that a small group of like-minded people with all the power wouldn't abuse it to their own benefit. Not saying they're going to start mowing down civillians in the streets with miniguns, just saying that they are slowly but surely stripping away are freedoms and noone seems to care. Eventually there will be a breaking point, and when that happens you best believe they will use all the firepower they have to enforce their removal of our freedoms.
I could care less what color the president is. What I care about is the changes he and congress are making to my country. I'm no redneck living in a trailer clutching my shotgun cursing obama. I'm a middle-class working american that won't stand to see the foundation that this country was built upon ripped out from underneath me. My mindset is actually older than 1950, it's from the 1770s as I believe in the same principles of our founding fathers. Regardless the timeframe there will always be corrupt men imposing their mind on the weak.
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing"
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The gun debate in America is ridiculous. The right to own a gun is guaranteed to every US citizen, and that will not, or should not change. This right is not just so Americans can hunt, the true reason it is there is so citizens have the means to defend themselves against the government, end of story.
The fact that American's can have guns is not responsible for the recent massacres, just the same how violent video games and violent movies and violent books are not responsible for the recent massacres. The lunatics who killed all those people are the ones who are responsible for the recent massacres. End of story.
I don't understand why this isn't common sense. I don't get why people don't realize that in a free society people are free to do what they want, and that once in a while you will have a disturbed asshole who is going to do something crazy, there is not much anyone can do about that. Is the government going to outlaw matches if some sick asshole burns down a building, killing hundreds of innocent people? No, because the matches didn't burn down the building, the sick asshole did, it is the same thing with guns.
Canada is HUGE on guns, and they play the same violent video games, watch the same violent movies, and read the same violent books as Americans, but their murder rate is nowhere near that of the USA. This shows that an armed population is not the cause of gun violence, it is something else. Maybe it is something in the water, who knows, but you can't blame the tragedy on the tool that was used. The sickle didn't harvest the crops, the farmer did. The gun didn't shoot up the school, the gunman did.
Bottom line, people are stupid and unreasonable and just won't gracefully accept the fact that sometimes people snap and tragedies happen. If you really want to try to prevent this from happening in the future, you need to help out the well being of the population. As the economy struggles and more and more young people are crushed by debt and unable to settle down and find a job and support a family and live the life they were told they could have their whole lives, violence like this is going to be on the rise. That is human nature in action.
Man this post is a breath of common sense in a thread filled with ignorance and complacency. Well said sir.
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something does need to be done about gun laws over there (I still think they should have weapons but there should be limits to what guns and ammo you can actually have)
I like the Chris Rock solution to gun violence.
"I think all bullets should cost five thousand dollars… five thousand dollars per bullet… You know why? Cause if a bullet cost five thousand dollars there would be no more innocent bystanders. Yeah! Every time somebody get shot we'd say, 'Damn, he must have done something ... Shit, he's got fifty thousand dollars worth of bullets in his ass.' And people would think before they killed somebody if a bullet cost five thousand dollars. 'Man I would blow your fucking head off…if I could afford it.' 'I'm gonna get me another job, I'm going to start saving some money, and you're a dead man. You better hope I can't get no bullets on layaway.'"
Definitely this!
But seriously, gun control doesn't really do anything. If someone like the asshat in Newtown wants to kill a whole bunch of people he's bloody well going to find a way to do it isn't he? Someone deranged liked that will find a way whether it be a gun or a home made bomb. The other asshat from Colorado that shot up the theatre figured out both how to get his hands on automatic weapons and build bombs in his apartment.
My point being, countries don't need to focus on gun control they need to focus on helping people with mental disorders and educating people about the warning signs of something like this happening.
Also metal detectors and armed guards in schools couldn't hurt. I know no one likes the idea of armed guards hanging around their kids but after something like Sandy Hook I know I'd feel safer.
Prevention prevention prevention.
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This is just another emotional argument that is meant and carefully planned to divide people. Once this settles down it will be gay marriage again, then abortion, then religion in schools, then whatever else they can stir you assholes up about.
Get with the picture and start talking about the decreasing value of the dollar and the MOTHER FUCKING WAR IN AFGHANISTAN THAT HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR 12 YEARS
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This is just another emotional argument that is meant and carefully planned to divide people. Once this settles down it will be gay marriage again, then abortion, then religion in schools, then whatever else they can stir you assholes up about.
Get with the picture and start talking about the decreasing value of the dollar and the MOTHER FUCKING WAR IN AFGHANISTAN THAT HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR 12 YEARS
Can't argue with that. The american government loves their media smokescreens.
Yep, we're in what QE4 now? At the rate Bernanke and his friends at the FED are printing money our dollar will be worth less than Zimbabwe's. But if we pull out of afghanistan where will America get its opium? My friend just got back from a 2-year tour in Afghanistan and he said you couldn't imagine how many poppy plantations there are. War=profit, the military industrial comlex and congress both know this. That's why they've been keeping us in a state of perpetual wartime. Just look at how much money was made during WWII alone, it's simply staggering.
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The whole thing was/is supposed to ensure our ability to overthrow our own government. Which isn't possible these days by any means.
And why is that? Because generations of americans have become complacent and lost the vigor that our forefathers had against tyranny. I'm sure the LA police thought they could contain a bunch of low-income civilians after the Rodney King hearing was aired. Refresh my memory how did that turn out?
This.
I am loving how warped some of the justifications for owning guns are. My favorite is the one about how the american guv'ment can turn around and become some tyrannical monster that is going to eliminate all americans hence why they need their military grade weapons.
Or how about the counter arguments by the NRA to every debate about guns..
What about kids and schools?
NRA: They should have armed guards in every school
What about fireys going to fight a blaze?
NRA: Fireman and paramedics should be carrying guns with them
What about this need to own military grade weapons?
NRA: We need to protect ourselves from tyrant governments.
Fuckne LOLZ and fucken sad at the same time!
Ahh america you are totally fucked..fail after motherfucking fail. The redknecks must be fucken suffering so much atm..you know having a black dude running the country and now wanting to take their precious weapons away from them. Wouyld suck to be an american white trash male with a mindset from the 1950s living in the 2013 USA.
I love how conditioned you are to believe that a small group of like-minded people with all the power wouldn't abuse it to their own benefit. Not saying they're going to start mowing down civillians in the streets with miniguns, just saying that they are slowly but surely stripping away are freedoms and noone seems to care. Eventually there will be a breaking point, and when that happens you best believe they will use all the firepower they have to enforce their removal of our freedoms.
I could care less what color the president is. What I care about is the changes he and congress are making to my country. I'm no redneck living in a trailer clutching my shotgun cursing obama. I'm a middle-class working american that won't stand to see the foundation that this country was built upon ripped out from underneath me. My mindset is actually older than 1950, it's from the 1770s as I believe in the same principles of our founding fathers. Regardless the timeframe there will always be corrupt men imposing their mind on the weak.
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing"
THIS.
something does need to be done about gun laws over there (I still think they should have weapons but there should be limits to what guns and ammo you can actually have)
I like the Chris Rock solution to gun violence.
"I think all bullets should cost five thousand dollars… five thousand dollars per bullet… You know why? Cause if a bullet cost five thousand dollars there would be no more innocent bystanders. Yeah! Every time somebody get shot we'd say, 'Damn, he must have done something ... Shit, he's got fifty thousand dollars worth of bullets in his ass.' And people would think before they killed somebody if a bullet cost five thousand dollars. 'Man I would blow your fucking head off…if I could afford it.' 'I'm gonna get me another job, I'm going to start saving some money, and you're a dead man. You better hope I can't get no bullets on layaway.'"
Definitely this!
But seriously, gun control doesn't really do anything. If someone like the asshat in Newtown wants to kill a whole bunch of people he's bloody well going to find a way to do it isn't he? Someone deranged liked that will find a way whether it be a gun or a home made bomb. The other asshat from Colorado that shot up the theatre figured out both how to get his hands on automatic weapons and build bombs in his apartment.
My point being, countries don't need to focus on gun control they need to focus on helping people with mental disorders and educating people about the warning signs of something like this happening.
Also metal detectors and armed guards in schools couldn't hurt. I know no one likes the idea of armed guards hanging around their kids but after something like Sandy Hook I know I'd feel safer.
Prevention prevention prevention.
And freakin' THIS!
What a breath of fresh air to see such like-minded people in these threads. I came across this clearnet article yesterday and it explains how I feel about "gun-free zones" in an articulate way: http://concealedcampus.org/2013/01/the-fallacy-of-gun-free-zones/
An excerpt: “If an insane gunman rushes into your classroom intending to murder you and your classmates, what would you rather have – a law that says he can’t have that gun here, or another gun?” I have yet to hear someone respond with, “Trick question! He won’t be able to get that gun into my classroom, because it’s a gun free zone!” When even the people that support ‘gun free’ zones don’t attempt to deny their ineffectiveness, you wonder why they persist in the belief that they’re a necessity. They’ve admitted that such zones don’t keep the “bad guys with guns” out, but they’re still too afraid of the “good guys with guns” to abolish the zones. Ironic.
News flash: bad guys with guns don't obey laws!! The kid in Newtown broke 40+ laws and didn't give a damn. Why? He was crazy and was hell-bent on causing destruction (if the official story is to be believed, but that is another can of worms). My assumption is that people who hate guns and want them banned have been conditioned to believe that way for one reason or another. A gun is a tool, an object that can do nothing on it's own. It can be used for good or evil. Outlawing guns simply because they look scary is one of the most asinine things I've ever heard. You can thank Sen. Feinstein for that one.
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Crazy people and criminals are not going to go through any sort of legal process in order to obtain a gun. If they want weapons bad enough they're going to find a way to obtain them. Maybe I'm over simplifying things a bit, but I'm going to assume that the Bloods (sp?) and the Cripes do not register their guns.
For example, I joined silkroad because I wanted "easy" access to drugs. I wanted the freedom to experiment with mind altering substances despite the fact that the illicit drugs that I have ordered are illegal. Silkroad provided me a way to access many drugs that are too difficult to obtain in my small town. In my opinion, the same logic can be applied to gun control.
Where there's a will there's a way. The individuals responsible for the shootings didn't go from normal to crazy overnight. I agree with the poster who said that prevention is key. Instead of spending tax dollars on free birth control why not instead use that money to provide easier access to quality mental healthcare screenings/treatment.
The government and insurance companies do not provide healthcare, instead they provide sickcare. Only when something goes terrible wrong (physically or mentally) does any action take place and when it does, only the bare minimum is provided. Had this kid been provided with high quality mental healthcare maybe the result would've been different. Parents: if you knew that your kid was a little "off" or mentally ill, would you let him have access to the gun safe combination? I think most would respond with a definite and firm NO.
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:o
I'm really shocked to see the anti-gun sentiment so strong in a community like this one. I though we were all about personal responsibility, personal independence, and true freedom. I guess I gave too many the benefit of the doubt.
If you don't think people have the right to defend themselves, or you think the police and government are more trustworthy than citizens with firearms then you aren't thinking logically.
If you fear your neighbors having access to deadly weapons then I pity you. The fact of the matter is the people who you should be afraid of have access to those weapons regardless of their legality, and even without firearms a person who wants to harm people will find a way.
If your neighbor doesn't fly off the handle and bash people with a tire iron or baseball bat, then they won't go around killing people with a gun. A gun does not change a person, they will do whatever they wish with the tools available to them.
To setup a system where police and military are armed and citizens are not is in fact tyranny. Whether an iron fist or a velvet glove is used, it is still tyranny. Plus, you never know when the glove will be taken off.
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Our rights are RIGHTS, and if you stand up for any of them, you need to stand up for all of them.
1st amendment - do you think there should be freedom of speech on the internet (yes, obviously)? Founding fathers obviously didn't envision the internet, so does "speech" even apply? You are typing after all, not talking.
Against bullying of protesters a la occupy wall st, or other actions that abridge the right "of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances"?
4th amendment - are you against police and federal law enforcement searches without warrants? stop and frisk police behavior? warrantles wiretapping (internet spying)?
5th amendment - are you against indefinite detention of detainees without trial? Ever chose to not incriminate yourself when questioned by police (aka plead the 5th).
And the list goes on and on. If you agree with these types of things but are favorable to gun control, you are a hypocrite and need to re-evaulate your views.
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I support the founding fathers rights to carry flintlock muskets too...
11,000 VS 35... END OF FUCKING ARGUMENT!
Muskets? Where are muskets mentioned in the US Constitution or Declaration of Independence? Does freedom of speech only apply to newspapers and books, not to TV and the Internet? Get a fucking clue.
11K vs 35?
First off, the number 35 is way too low. There are a few hundred murders with firearms in the UK each year.
Second, the US is how many time more populated than the UK? Please use percentages when making comparisons.
Third, the violent crime RATE (that means percentage) in the UK is greater than that in the US.
There are lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Either you believe in personal freedom or you don't. End of argument.
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I support the founding fathers rights to carry flintlock muskets too...
Muskets were the best available arms at the time equivalent to the military's weapons. In the US today you are restricted to obtain automatic weapons like military carries. I don't understand your point.
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It was nice to see Piers fuck up and have an intelligent person on to debate this weapons issue. Watch the debate with Ben Shapiro and Piers on YouTube from last night if you want to see Piers tactics. It's funny how far off the people are who think banning "assault rifles" is going to fix anything and let themselves be convinced by idiots like Piers Morgan. I'm sure he will dig up lesser opponents to debate from now after this beating.
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I am loving how warped some of the justifications for owning guns are. My favorite is the one about how the american guv'ment can turn around and become some tyrannical monster that is going to eliminate all americans hence why they need their military grade weapons.
Or how about the counter arguments by the NRA to every debate about guns..
What about kids and schools?
NRA: They should have armed guards in every school
What about fireys going to fight a blaze?
NRA: Fireman and paramedics should be carrying guns with them
What about this need to own military grade weapons?
NRA: We need to protect ourselves from tyrant governments.
Fuckne LOLZ and fucken sad at the same time!
Ahh america you are totally fucked..fail after motherfucking fail. The redknecks must be fucken suffering so much atm..you know having a black dude running the country and now wanting to take their precious weapons away from them. Wouyld suck to be an american white trash male with a mindset from the 1950s living in the 2013 USA.
I live in Thailand. On April the 10th, 2010 the Thai government fired on participants and protests in a public gathering and 24 people were murdered. During the 2010 protests over 80 people died. Yes governments do get out of control.
To the north of me is Laos. Read up.
To the east of me is Cambodia, then Vietnam. Read up.
To the west of me is Burma. Don't read up- it will just break your heart.
Guns might well be dangerous. But nothing on this planet is as deadly as a government. I do not see arming civilians as a solution to combating the power of government...I see arming civilians as the only solution to combating the power of government. If you think that somehow modern Western nations are peace-loving institutions for the benefit of man you are one ignorant fuck. No, let me correct that. Your statements alone show that you are one ignorant fuck.
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I live in Thailand. On April the 10th, 2010 the Thai government fired on participants and protests in a public gathering and 24 people were murdered. During the 2010 protests over 80 people died. Yes governments do get out of control.
Those are some powerful words right there.
I saw Burma VJ - it was painful to watch. It shows very clearly how the 1st and 2nd amendments go hand in hand.
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I am loving how warped some of the justifications for owning guns are. My favorite is the one about how the american guv'ment can turn around and become some tyrannical monster that is going to eliminate all americans hence why they need their military grade weapons.
Or how about the counter arguments by the NRA to every debate about guns..
What about kids and schools?
NRA: They should have armed guards in every school
What about fireys going to fight a blaze?
NRA: Fireman and paramedics should be carrying guns with them
What about this need to own military grade weapons?
NRA: We need to protect ourselves from tyrant governments.
Fuckne LOLZ and fucken sad at the same time!
Ahh america you are totally fucked..fail after motherfucking fail. The redknecks must be fucken suffering so much atm..you know having a black dude running the country and now wanting to take their precious weapons away from them. Wouyld suck to be an american white trash male with a mindset from the 1950s living in the 2013 USA.
I live in Thailand. On April the 10th, 2010 the Thai government fired on participants and protests in a public gathering and 24 people were murdered. During the 2010 protests over 80 people died. Yes governments do get out of control.
To the north of me is Laos. Read up.
To the east of me is Cambodia, then Vietnam. Read up.
To the west of me is Burma. Don't read up- it will just break your heart.
Guns might well be dangerous. But nothing on this planet is as deadly as a government. I do not see arming civilians as a solution to combating the power of government...I see arming civilians as the only solution to combating the power of government. If you think that somehow modern Western nations are peace-loving institutions for the benefit of man you are one ignorant fuck. No, let me correct that. Your statements alone show that you are one ignorant fuck.
Well said. And I'm sorry for your turmoil.
In your opinion, if the citizens of Thailand had the right to bear arms, do you think these government massacres would take place? Even if the citizens of Thailand had vastly inferior firepower to what the government might have, do you think that would be enough to prevent the massacres?
Let's say a the citizens are armed with hunting rifles, shotguns, pistols, semi-auto rifles and the occasional full auto firearm. The government is armed with it's standard Type 11 and HK 33assault rifles (not to mention artillery, etc etc). Would peaceful protests occur without interference from the government since the government knows if they fire on the protestors there is a chance of them firing back, and even more so there is the chance of all the citizens rising up against them since they are armed?
I'm just curious to see what others think about this.
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What can a bunch of peeps with hand pistols and a bunch of farmer giles with shotguns do?
Driving around in their mini metro's and tractors?
The government have tanks, rockets, grenades and machine guns.
The police don't have guns round here so we could shoot them I suppose. But the police then WOULD have guns if the population were armed.
It's when police are armed or when the army get called in, in response to some sort of riot or such that we need to worry.
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What can a bunch of peeps with hand pistols and a bunch of farmer giles with shotguns do?
I'll bet you England thought the same thing about America's founding fathers. How did that turn out?
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."
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I find it really kind of interesting that there are people on this site who think gun prohibition is a good idea.
Isn't that ironic... :)
I mean, what? we are gonna ban guns right. Then only the bad guys will have guns, kind of like drugs.
I guess if we really like black markets then sure, but the quickest way to increase crime is to make things
people enjoy illegal. Maybe the prison lobby is looking to increase profits.
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Every UK citizen should have a gun. This gun should be buried or locked in some kind of safe.
It can only be used to one day overthrow the government if necessary.
If you are found carrying your gun or using it in anyway other than overthrowing government, you shall be imprisoned or killed.
This should be enshrined in law. It is a right. It is a balance of power.
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something does need to be done about gun laws over there (I still think they should have weapons but there should be limits to what guns and ammo you can actually have)
I like the Chris Rock solution to gun violence.
"I think all bullets should cost five thousand dollars… five thousand dollars per bullet… You know why? Cause if a bullet cost five thousand dollars there would be no more innocent bystanders. Yeah! Every time somebody get shot we'd say, 'Damn, he must have done something ... Shit, he's got fifty thousand dollars worth of bullets in his ass.' And people would think before they killed somebody if a bullet cost five thousand dollars. 'Man I would blow your fucking head off…if I could afford it.' 'I'm gonna get me another job, I'm going to start saving some money, and you're a dead man. You better hope I can't get no bullets on layaway.'"
Definitely this!
But seriously, gun control doesn't really do anything. If someone like the asshat in Newtown wants to kill a whole bunch of people he's bloody well going to find a way to do it isn't he? Someone deranged liked that will find a way whether it be a gun or a home made bomb. The other asshat from Colorado that shot up the theatre figured out both how to get his hands on automatic weapons and build bombs in his apartment.
My point being, countries don't need to focus on gun control they need to focus on helping people with mental disorders and educating people about the warning signs of something like this happening.
Also metal detectors and armed guards in schools couldn't hurt. I know no one likes the idea of armed guards hanging around their kids but after something like Sandy Hook I know I'd feel safer.
Prevention prevention prevention.
YES, YES, YES!!! Current government focuses on controlling law-abiding citizens instead of helping those who need serious help. It's stupid how much money we waste on bull shit instead of dealing with the actual root of a problem, or preventing the problems from occuring again.
Let me ask you this: If you were going to break into a house to kill someone, would you pick the house where you know the owner has a gun? Or the house where the owner most likely does not have a gun? It's not just about home protection, that question can be used in any situation. Are you going to bust in and start shooting kids when you know that there are three armed security waiting for you? NO!
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Americans, I'd like to take this time to offer a full, frank and heartfelt apology on behalf of the citizens of England for the recent actions of piers morgan. Although I'm certain his views are likely sidelined from the average thinking American's thought-processes, I can't help but get a little angry that piers has the audacity to try and lecture another country about gun laws when England now has terrifying amounts of knife crime (and no *legal* means to defend ourselves) due to our draconian gun laws.
What!?! Dude I'm English and hate Piers Morgan but i respect him for being the only man to bloody argue with someone over gun laws, What on earth do you need defending from here? Yeah you get Chav's who think they're hard for carrying a knife, If you're scared then do the normal thing and don't go near them. If we had relaxed gun laws here we'd be as fucked as America is.... Don't get me wrong i like the American people just not the government (like ours is any better) but honestly i agree with Piers something does need to be done about gun laws over there (I still think they should have weapons but there should be limits to what guns and ammo you can actually have)
Here is a question for you if you have more relaxed gun laws don't you think that you would have less suicide bombings in America we do not have suicide bombings we only have cowards who get on vehicles i.e. airplanes where guns are not allowed I would like to the see those sons of bitches step onto a city bus and tried to do his jhad crap They might get the bomb triggered off But they would Also be shot
I agree American gun laws are screwed up there should be Mandatory for you to take the gun safety lessons to own a gun and if you have a Nonviolent felony criminal record you should be made to go through.Extensive gun training and should not be allowed a concealed weapons permit for first two years of gun ownership or something along this line.
If you have a violent criminal record of any kind tuff shit no gun for you
If everybody had a gun you would think twice about robbing anybody. How do you know grandma doesn't have a 45 tucked away in her girder if there were no gun laws then most criminals would assume that most victims are armed.
(We need to arm the people not the criminals right now the criminals have more guns than the people this should be the other way around)
Like the old West and I don't want somebody come on here spooling off about how wild the West was because if you read the real history books the West was quite tame and almost all historians will agree this was because everybody had a gun.
We have several Counties in America that this analogy has been proven
These counties have relaxed There conceal weapons laws and allowed anybody without a felony to easily obtain a concealed weapons permit
And guess what in just one year the crime rate for this Counties plummeted On the average 61%.
If you outlaw guns you Will get what you have in your country now.
The only people who have guns are your police your military the rich and criminals.
what happens if your country decides to in Stowe unrealistic taxes and Laws on its citizens let me rephrase that on all of its un-armed citizens what would you do at this point and you are completely Out of touch with today's reality to think that this would not happen.
Only stupid people do stupid things with guns.
It is Not the gun that's killing the person It's the person holding the gun Or the moron who doesn't understand how to own a gun proper storage safety features installed on gun when stored etc. etc..
As an American I would fight to my dying breath To protect my rights to take up arms And defend myself against foreign or domestic enemies
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What can a bunch of peeps with hand pistols and a bunch of farmer giles with shotguns do?
Driving around in their mini metro's and tractors?
The government have tanks, rockets, grenades and machine guns.
The police don't have guns round here so we could shoot them I suppose. But the police then WOULD have guns if the population were armed.
It's when police are armed or when the army get called in, in response to some sort of riot or such that we need to worry.
In your opinion a moderately armed populace isn't enough to shield the people from tyranny then, correct? See, I feel like here in the US we have just enough firepower to protect us from tyranny. But, I don't know.
An armed populace can become organized. They can cause enough damage to cripple the government and to force changes in their country. A TRULY tyrannical government is going to cause so much civil opposition that the majority of the populace will unite. It only takes 1 bullet to kill someone, so inferior or not, their weapons can still do the job. Eventually some of the government's military leaders (and thus companies of soldiers, equipment, etc) could begin to back the rebellion as well.
So, what I am curious about is whether or not a moderately armed populace would ever be subjected to true tyranny? As I've stated before, I think the gap between our weapons and the governments is too large.
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I think that an armed populace is good for the rising up against the government. But I would prefer those guns to stay under lock and key until needed.
I know that this is unfeasible. So for the moment I am fine with just sports and utility usage with tight controls.
I would love a gun myself just for the feeling of power, but surely people may get killed when I have a funny turn.
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I think that an armed populace is good for the rising up against the government. But I would prefer those guns to stay under lock and key until needed.
I know that this is unfeasible. So for the moment I am fine with just sports and utility usage with tight controls.
I would love a gun myself just for the feeling of power, but surely people may get killed when I have a funny turn.
Okay Mary Poppins
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Could you be so kind as to use your amazing influence to ask all the citizens of england to each donate me a $1? then i would be rich ! !
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Canada is HUGE on guns, and they play the same violent video games, watch the same violent movies, and read the same violent books as Americans, but their murder rate is nowhere near that of the USA. This shows that an armed population is not the cause of gun violence, it is something else. Maybe it is something in the water, who knows, but you can't blame the tragedy on the tool that was used. The sickle didn't harvest the crops, the farmer did. The gun didn't shoot up the school, the gunman did.
What in the blue fuck are you talking about? I'm Canadian. There is pretty much zero gun culture here. We also have very strict gun controls, and nobody here is freaking out about the possibility of the government turning into Mega-Hitler.
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I lived in Canada for a few years and saw zero guns and zero gun culture references, even from the dudes I was scoring coke off, and they were not your friendly university student dealer types.
I think the problem is zero free health care for mental illness. Why free mental health, not to protect us from ourselves, but to protect us from those that are bat shit crazy. I also don't see why Piers should feel bad, he lives in the states now, with his family and pays taxes, does he have to be 5th generation before getting a say?
No free health care and high level gun culture/ gun acceptance, laxed laws = death on large scales, especially when the world is up the shitter.
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I lived in Canada for a few years and saw zero guns and zero gun culture references, even from the dudes I was scoring coke off, and they were not your friendly university student dealer types.
I think the problem is zero free health care for mental illness. Why free mental health, not to protect us from ourselves, but to protect us from those that are bat shit crazy. I also don't see why Piers should feel bad, he lives in the states now, with his family and pays taxes, does he have to be 5th generation before getting a say?
No free health care and high level gun culture/ gun acceptance, laxed laws = death on large scales, especially when the world is up the shitter.
Add in the media and government feeding the population a healthy does of fear and it's a pretty toxic situation.
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People of some nations seem to handle their guns just fine. Traditional English folk would probably be fine with the correct training. Trouble is, this country is changing. Too much wannabee gang culture, racial tensions, violent inner city areas etc.
Guns would make some areas more dangerous.
America is scary. Even sitting over here with an Ocean between us, I get scared of America.
Some Americans think that only white property owners should be allowed to vote and hold guns.
You need a (reasonably) sane population who have an aversion to blowing shit out of each other to have safe gun usage by all.
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Alex jones and Pierce morgan have zero credability , one is a crazy conspiracy theorist who thinks illuminati leaders smoke DMT and the other is a discredited hack who is dispized by the british public and doesn't give a shit about anyone but himself.. The US and the UK neeed to sort out their shit ???
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I lived in Canada for a few years and saw zero guns and zero gun culture references, even from the dudes I was scoring coke off, and they were not your friendly university student dealer types.
I think the problem is zero free health care for mental illness. Why free mental health, not to protect us from ourselves, but to protect us from those that are bat shit crazy. I also don't see why Piers should feel bad, he lives in the states now, with his family and pays taxes, does he have to be 5th generation before getting a say?
No free health care and high level gun culture/ gun acceptance, laxed laws = death on large scales, especially when the world is up the shitter.
canada gun laws are very relaxed can get a conceal gun permit in 1 day hence the no crime rate you guys have again guns stop crime if everybody has a gun.
And Canada has one of the worlds largest hunting community's Canada rates as the 13th out of 178 countries in the world in personal fire arm owner ship.
you have no crime in your country because everybody has the right to cares a gun it has been that way for decades so the allure of owning a gun is not there anymore. Your country has done what USA should do to fix its crime rate
Canada has changes the way it's citizens view Guns weather they did this on purpose i don't know but it worked.
You can't fix gun crimes buy outlawing guns then only the criminals will have guns /
Criminals don't buy guns legally today what is going to stop them after the guns are outlawed duuuh Nothing
?why does nobody understand this?
Humans are fickle if you tell a human (you can not do that) Take a guess what that human will do
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I lived in Canada for a few years and saw zero guns and zero gun culture references, even from the dudes I was scoring coke off, and they were not your friendly university student dealer types.
I think the problem is zero free health care for mental illness. Why free mental health, not to protect us from ourselves, but to protect us from those that are bat shit crazy. I also don't see why Piers should feel bad, he lives in the states now, with his family and pays taxes, does he have to be 5th generation before getting a say?
No free health care and high level gun culture/ gun acceptance, laxed laws = death on large scales, especially when the world is up the shitter.
canada gun laws are very relaxed can get a conceal gun permit in 1 day hence the no crime rate you guys have again guns stop crime if everybody has a gun.
And Canada has one of the worlds largest hunting community's Canada rates as the 13th out of 178 countries in the world in personal fire arm owner ship.
you have no crime in your country because everybody has the right to cares a gun it has been that way for decades so the allure of owning a gun is not there anymore. Your country has done what USA should do to fix its crime rate
Canada has changes the way it's citizens view Guns weather they did this on purpose i don't know but it worked.
You can't fix gun crimes buy outlawing guns then only the criminals will have guns /
Criminals don't buy guns legally today what is going to stop them after the guns are outlawed duuuh Nothing
?why does nobody understand this?
Humans are fickle if you tell a human (you can not do that) Take a guess what that human will do
I love it when Americans try to tell me about laws and culture in the country I've lived in for all 26 years of my life. Pretty much everything you said about gun laws and guns in Canada (outside of the hunting community) is complete bullshit. I don't know where you get your info from, but it is completely wrong. I lived in the most redneck province in the country in the country for 21 years and nobody carries concealed firearms on them. The legal hoops you have to jump through to get a handgun for personal use in Canada are extensive.
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legal hoops... that's the punch line right there. I know plenty of Canadians that carry, not legally. They get their guns smuggled in from the US usually.
I've bought guns in almost every Country I've been to, including the UK. It's never taken me more than a week to find what I was looking for.
Just because guns aren't legal or are highly controlled, does not mean they do not exist. Also doesn't mean that criminals can't get them.
I carry for protection, I do it legally and illegally where necessary.
I don't commence shady business outside of the internet but I've been in some tight spots where having the upper hand has saved my life.
UK has it's fair share of low lifes like everywhere else but I've noticed in gun controlled countries, people are a lot quicker to throw the first punch and to gang up on the weak.
While in UK before I picked up a pistol, I was walking back from a bar late at night. 3 guys were sitting on some steps, it was like a scene out of a movie where some punks decide they want to start shit with someone they don't know.
The 3 punks got up and started walking behind me, I heard them whispering to each other about how they were going to "bash" me and shit so I stopped, turned around and went at them. Now I'm not a small guy by any means, I may have looked smaller hunkered up in my coat avoiding the cold, which is why they thought I was a target. I ended up wiping the floor with 2 of the guys while the other ran off. Without getting in to details or dragging this out any longer I'll finish up with my point.
If these guys, carrying some kind of weapons, knife and a pipe from what I seen, went after someone else they probably would have done some real damage. Maybe even killed them. I got lucky being that I had close to 10 years of martial arts training at the time and was in peak physical condition but if I would have caught that pipe against the head, if the other guy wouldn't have ran, if these guys had an ounce of training, it would have been game over.
I will always carry a gun because I would rather have the advantage or at least the ability to even the playing fields.
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legal hoops... that's the punch line right there. I know plenty of Canadians that carry, not legally. They get their guns smuggled in from the US usually.
I've bought guns in almost every Country I've been to, including the UK. It's never taken me more than a week to find what I was looking for.
Just because guns aren't legal or are highly controlled, does not mean they do not exist. Also doesn't mean that criminals can't get them.
I carry for protection, I do it legally and illegally where necessary.
I don't commence shady business outside of the internet but I've been in some tight spots where having the upper hand has saved my life.
UK has it's fair share of low lifes like everywhere else but I've noticed in gun controlled countries, people are a lot quicker to throw the first punch and to gang up on the weak.
While in UK before I picked up a pistol, I was walking back from a bar late at night. 3 guys were sitting on some steps, it was like a scene out of a movie where some punks decide they want to start shit with someone they don't know.
The 3 punks got up and started walking behind me, I heard them whispering to each other about how they were going to "bash" me and shit so I stopped, turned around and went at them. Now I'm not a small guy by any means, I may have looked smaller hunkered up in my coat avoiding the cold, which is why they thought I was a target. I ended up wiping the floor with 2 of the guys while the other ran off. Without getting in to details or dragging this out any longer I'll finish up with my point.
If these guys, carrying some kind of weapons, knife and a pipe from what I seen, went after someone else they probably would have done some real damage. Maybe even killed them. I got lucky being that I had close to 10 years of martial arts training at the time and was in peak physical condition but if I would have caught that pipe against the head, if the other guy wouldn't have ran, if these guys had an ounce of training, it would have been game over.
I will always carry a gun because I would rather have the advantage or at least the ability to even the playing fields.
I never said there weren't guns in Canada, or illegal ones for that matter, just that there isn't much of a gun culture. Everyone likes to talk about how criminals will find a way to get their hands on guns, and that most guns that are used by gangs, etc. are purchased illegally. This may be true on the basic buyer-seller level, but the point of sale does not reflect the route of distribution. At one point, most guns that are bought illegally were purchased legally.
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Butter needs to be banned and so does bacon. I see all these people with a 350+ cholesterol, their lipid profile is all out of wack, they are a heart attack waiting to happen with the arteriosclerosis. If you are buying a heart-smart spread then no worries. But plain old butter? Outlaw it. To do otherwise makes you doctor death himself. You are the grim reaper with arterial plaque-smeared hands. Butter kills people!
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I am surprised there is such a split of opinion here over something I would have thought was fairly obvious. The OP I made was a heartfelt apology from someone who could see part of the cancerous attitudes of England regarding gun laws making their way to a different country - like a fucking tumor spreads from the lungs to the liver. The concept of feeling safer when you're unarmed seems really odd to me and I think can only be part of some kind of impregnated fear or mental conditioning. I'm not sure if it's just that lots of people lead such sheltered lives now that they don't really see the need for such protection - sadly those very people usually become statistics (without a voice) and a paycheck for the local funeral directors - or whether they are just plain, straight-up ignorant.
I think really the over-arching attitude of the nay-sayers was summed up fairly early on when somebody described staying away from "chavs" (which is a UK slang for an aggressive hoodlum) as the 'normal' thing to do. Has cowardice really taken over so much that people consider "staying away" and being afraid as the normal thing to do. Maybe you like to spend your life hiding away like a fucking rat but I prefer to live my life and if I know there are people out there who can do me harm with guns I'm not going to enter any situation involving them without one myself. And if you involve yourself in such a situation with me and think a gun law is your best protection then your staying away idea is a fucking good one.
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English people know in their heart of hearts that there is every possibility of themselves cracking up and going postal.
I'm sure we have all dreamed of what it would be like to just shoot and kill at will causing maximum destruction and carnage.
If I had a gun and the opportunity presented itself to get away with murder, I may be tempted.
Everybody would be tempted to kill when reality gets too stressful. Everybody knows this and is glad that other people tend not to be armed.
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The concept of feeling safer when you're unarmed seems really odd to me and I think can only be part of some kind of impregnated fear or mental conditioning.
This is a very good observation.
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English people know in their heart of hearts that there is every possibility of themselves cracking up and going postal.
I'm sure we have all dreamed of what it would be like to just shoot and kill at will causing maximum destruction and carnage.
If I had a gun and the opportunity presented itself to get away with murder, I may be tempted.
Everybody would be tempted to kill when reality gets too stressful. Everybody knows this and is glad that other people tend not to be armed.
exactly, if there were guns, they would get used, even the most rational thinking and mentally stable person can easily lose it and do something they were not normally capable of.
I would not want to live in a country were the general public were armed, it's asking for trouble.
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I am surprised there is such a split of opinion here over something I would have thought was fairly obvious. The OP I made was a heartfelt apology from someone who could see part of the cancerous attitudes of England regarding gun laws making their way to a different country - like a fucking tumor spreads from the lungs to the liver. The concept of feeling safer when you're unarmed seems really odd to me and I think can only be part of some kind of impregnated fear or mental conditioning. I'm not sure if it's just that lots of people lead such sheltered lives now that they don't really see the need for such protection - sadly those very people usually become statistics (without a voice) and a paycheck for the local funeral directors - or whether they are just plain, straight-up ignorant.
I think really the over-arching attitude of the nay-sayers was summed up fairly early on when somebody described staying away from "chavs" (which is a UK slang for an aggressive hoodlum) as the 'normal' thing to do. Has cowardice really taken over so much that people consider "staying away" and being afraid as the normal thing to do. Maybe you like to spend your life hiding away like a fucking rat but I prefer to live my life and if I know there are people out there who can do me harm with guns I'm not going to enter any situation involving them without one myself. And if you involve yourself in such a situation with me and think a gun law is your best protection then your staying away idea is a fucking good one.
with all respect melonballer, if you think this country is so stupid and out of touch, then why live here?
I would put money on you not having the bollocks to fire a gun at someone, you're all talk and no action.
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I don't know what to make of the NRA. Imagine if a Muslim state were to bring out an app for kids to teach them how to shoot and use guns? Can you imagine loud mouth Americans are the crap they would be sprouting? The western media SHOULD be holding the NRA to task but as we can see the NRA is just another protected arm of the NWO.
Why do the NRA have so much fucken power that they can dismiss what is essentially a critical debate in a country that has lost so many innocent people due to guns. I mean to come out and say the things these NWO sponsored arseholes have been saying and getting away with under the guise of the "xx amendment" is a fucken insult to democracy and the whole concept of it.
I can only imagine the shitstorm by the NWO sponsored western media if al queeda decided to release the same app.
And you yanks wonder why we hate you so much.
Now come at me with some bullshit speak about needing guns to protect yourselfs from tyrant governments.
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ive read both sides of the argument there are a good number of opinions however let me offer a fact
when the emperor of japan was asked why the bombings had happened like it did.
he replied that if he had taken the land aproch behind every us door they would find an armed American.
that why we speak English not Japanese
replace that with what ever genocidal megalomaniac that has been give power to do what ever sick fantasy they have in their head (no matter how valid and justifiable a reason they have)
thank you
i think were on the same page
i hate it when other people use someone ELSES tragedy for their own political gain.
u find me i ill smoke u down
that a promise
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Piers is a paid actor... nothing more.... im right there with you though... knives scare me more...
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I am surprised there is such a split of opinion here over something I would have thought was fairly obvious. The OP I made was a heartfelt apology from someone who could see part of the cancerous attitudes of England regarding gun laws making their way to a different country - like a fucking tumor spreads from the lungs to the liver. The concept of feeling safer when you're unarmed seems really odd to me and I think can only be part of some kind of impregnated fear or mental conditioning. I'm not sure if it's just that lots of people lead such sheltered lives now that they don't really see the need for such protection - sadly those very people usually become statistics (without a voice) and a paycheck for the local funeral directors - or whether they are just plain, straight-up ignorant.
I think really the over-arching attitude of the nay-sayers was summed up fairly early on when somebody described staying away from "chavs" (which is a UK slang for an aggressive hoodlum) as the 'normal' thing to do. Has cowardice really taken over so much that people consider "staying away" and being afraid as the normal thing to do. Maybe you like to spend your life hiding away like a fucking rat but I prefer to live my life and if I know there are people out there who can do me harm with guns I'm not going to enter any situation involving them without one myself. And if you involve yourself in such a situation with me and think a gun law is your best protection then your staying away idea is a fucking good one.
with all respect melonballer, if you think this country is so stupid and out of touch, then why live here?
I would put money on you not having the bollocks to fire a gun at someone, you're all talk and no action.
Because I can live wherever I want this is where I was born and just because there are pussys like you that would prefer the police to protect you rather than protect yourself doesn't mean I have to be happy about it. With all respect, difference between me and you is you will be laying there dead when the police come to scrape you off the floor but I will have been able to defend myself. If you think it's about having bollocks and action then you really have no idea what this is all about.
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give it a rest son, you're fooling no one.
you sound like some daft kid who hates everything around him, as a father I do not want guns, maybe when you grow up you will see things differently, I grew up in northern ireland so know they're bad news.
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English people know in their heart of hearts that there is every possibility of themselves cracking up and going postal.
I'm sure we have all dreamed of what it would be like to just shoot and kill at will causing maximum destruction and carnage.
If I had a gun and the opportunity presented itself to get away with murder, I may be tempted.
Everybody would be tempted to kill when reality gets too stressful. Everybody knows this and is glad that other people tend not to be armed.
Dude, I think you may need to get some help. Fantasizing about mass murder is not normal Seriously.
I'm not sure how in touch with reality you are, fantasizing about things like that. If you're more afraid of your neighbors having guns than you are of only the government having guns while the citizens are disarmed, you are out of touch with reality and have no understanding of history.
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I live in the UK and the thought of some of the people in my street having easy access to firearms is horrifying. I'm sure there's the odd nutter with a gun but it's just not an issue.
Another important point is that if gun laws were relaxed, it'd most likely mean the police would have to be armed, which is something no one wants to see.
OK this looks interesting,myself I have many friends in the US and I feel terrible for them the goverments as close to a dictatorship as it can be without the stupid sheep realising it because they're all to damn busy watching some 5 year kid and his pet sausage dog roll fucking ping pong balls around a stage for 3 minutes,when the UK found out about the BS over the WMD we pretty much booted the goverment out what happened there he got another term,the slimy ass bastard should never have been president in the first place,but it does help if your daddy's G HW Bush and your brother is the governor of the swing state you need to win and the vote counter is also your campaign manager,I'll get on topic in a minute i've not forgot what i'm talking about,but that country is going down the shitter faster than last nights curry,and my wife lives there so once she's out they can please them selves what they do the crooked bastards.
So back to gun laws i dont know what piers morgan said i dont really watch much sci-fi,but i'll go look and if the point I make in the next paragraph needs revising i will do so.
If any citizen of any country can tell me what they need an automatic weapon for i'll shut my mouth,but you must be able to comeback with a complete consise answer because in my eyes there is no need for anything that is more useful for killing people than it is for hunting food,,,Whoa slow down I know whats coming,,But guns dont kill people people kill people,but people couldn't kill people with automatic weapons if they wernt available,a handgun for personal defence is acceptable but it must be kept in a secure place at all times with an empty chamber, a shotgun or small to medium caliber rifle for hunting dear and wild boar,but there is no good reason to sell automatic weapons to the public anything other than the affore mentioned guns and rifles arnt safe to no be nor is it acceptable to sell any automatic weapons to anybody that isnt trained to use them I.E Army,whatever but not in public hands,we dont have the problem of an over growing wild boar population and there isnt such an influx of deer to shoot either so we dont really have much use for any gun of anykind in the UK and i'm glad about that atleast i know i'm at a very tiny risk of gunshot and knife attacks because if you give 1 of the chavvy twats a good slap pick the biggest and back hand him like a little school girl,personally if the risk of life in jail wasnt so high i'de just shoot the wanker but that's me,but aint nobody gonna tell me that they need auto weapons for self use.
God Bless The Little Angels and theyre teachers,,Come on USA your supposed to be the greatest power in the world yet alot of your citizens still live in abject poverty,you trade prisoners on the stock market like cattle and your just trying to get 1 more young disadvantaged kid in that meat cart,you let you people suffer by refusing them heathcare for all but you do it with scare tactics your perfectly happy to run a socialised anything unless it can make money then it has to be private,otherwise why is a federal postal service good or the police or the fire servive,you scare your citizens into beleiving its bad because most of them wont look at the WHO tables and see the USA is worse than Israel a country at war for decades there's a fault somewhere and im trying to find it but i feel like its the search for the 100th monkey and im just waiting for people to wake up.
Rage Over
My Fingers Ache Somebody Roll Me A Joint
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I live in the UK and the thought of some of the people in my street having easy access to firearms is horrifying. I'm sure there's the odd nutter with a gun but it's just not an issue.
Another important point is that if gun laws were relaxed, it'd most likely mean the police would have to be armed, which is something no one wants to see.
OK this looks interesting,myself I have many friends in the US and I feel terrible for them the goverments as close to a dictatorship as it can be without the stupid sheep realising it because they're all to damn busy watching some 5 year kid and his pet sausage dog roll fucking ping pong balls around a stage for 3 minutes,when the UK found out about the BS over the WMD we pretty much booted the goverment out what happened there he got another term,the slimy ass bastard should never have been president in the first place,but it does help if your daddy's G HW Bush and your brother is the governor of the swing state you need to win and the vote counter is also your campaign manager,I'll get on topic in a minute i've not forgot what i'm talking about,but that country is going down the shitter faster than last nights curry,and my wife lives there so once she's out they can please them selves what they do the crooked bastards.
So back to gun laws i dont know what piers morgan said i dont really watch much sci-fi,but i'll go look and if the point I make in the next paragraph needs revising i will do so.
If any citizen of any country can tell me what they need an automatic weapon for i'll shut my mouth,but you must be able to comeback with a complete consise answer because in my eyes there is no need for anything that is more useful for killing people than it is for hunting food,,,Whoa slow down I know whats coming,,But guns dont kill people people kill people,but people couldn't kill people with automatic weapons if they wernt available,a handgun for personal defence is acceptable but it must be kept in a secure place at all times with an empty chamber, a shotgun or small to medium caliber rifle for hunting dear and wild boar,but there is no good reason to sell automatic weapons to the public anything other than the affore mentioned guns and rifles arnt safe to no be nor is it acceptable to sell any automatic weapons to anybody that isnt trained to use them I.E Army,whatever but not in public hands,we dont have the problem of an over growing wild boar population and there isnt such an influx of deer to shoot either so we dont really have much use for any gun of anykind in the UK and i'm glad about that atleast i know i'm at a very tiny risk of gunshot and knife attacks because if you give 1 of the chavvy twats a good slap pick the biggest and back hand him like a little school girl,personally if the risk of life in jail wasnt so high i'de just shoot the wanker but that's me,but aint nobody gonna tell me that they need auto weapons for self use.
God Bless The Little Angels and theyre teachers,,Come on USA your supposed to be the greatest power in the world yet alot of your citizens still live in abject poverty,you trade prisoners on the stock market like cattle and your just trying to get 1 more young disadvantaged kid in that meat cart,you let you people suffer by refusing them heathcare for all but you do it with scare tactics your perfectly happy to run a socialised anything unless it can make money then it has to be private,otherwise why is a federal postal service good or the police or the fire servive,you scare your citizens into beleiving its bad because most of them wont look at the WHO tables and see the USA is worse than Israel a country at war for decades there's a fault somewhere and im trying to find it but i feel like its the search for the 100th monkey and im just waiting for people to wake up.
Rage Over
My Fingers Ache Somebody Roll Me A Joint
I'm guessing you must not know a whole lot about the U.S. Fully automatic guns of any kind are already illegal. Our moron president is proposing to ban semi-automatic rifles (which is most of the rifles out there), magazines that hold more than 10 rounds, and a bunch of other asinine bullshit. You don't live here so you don't see the crap he's pulled in the last 4 years, there must be more idiots in my country than I thought to vote the worthless excuse for a human being back in. I was dumbfounded the day of the election. To sum it up, he is an enemy of the Constitution and should be treated as such. Our rights to bear arms do NOT come from the government, our rights come endowed to us from the Creator. They should stay the hell out of it, they have no place trying to tell us what we can or cannot do in that respect. The right to bear arms was already understood and practiced by pretty much everyone when this country was taking shape. If he tries to do a gun grab, he'll have a civil war on his hands.. mark my words.
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The question I don't see anyone asking is this. In the US, guns are used to protect everything of value. Banks, armored cars, many malls have armed guards, the President's kids go to a school with armed guards on site. Yet most schools in America are "gun free zones". So does that mean Americans don't value their children? It would appear that way to someone on the outside anyways. Presidents and CEO's get armed secrity for themselves and their families. The peasants can just be victims right?
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English people know in their heart of hearts that there is every possibility of themselves cracking up and going postal.
I'm sure we have all dreamed of what it would be like to just shoot and kill at will causing maximum destruction and carnage.
If I had a gun and the opportunity presented itself to get away with murder, I may be tempted.
Everybody would be tempted to kill when reality gets too stressful. Everybody knows this and is glad that other people tend not to be armed.
Dude, I think you may need to get some help. Fantasizing about mass murder is not normal Seriously.
I'm not sure how in touch with reality you are, fantasizing about things like that. If you're more afraid of your neighbors having guns than you are of only the government having guns while the citizens are disarmed, you are out of touch with reality and have no understanding of history.
Depends how serious you are with the 'fantasy'. Everyone has a moment where the feel they could just flip out and the idea of having an instant death machine (gun whatever :P) at hand increases the likelihood of you doing something regrettable.
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The question I don't see anyone asking is this. In the US, guns are used to protect everything of value. Banks, armored cars, many malls have armed guards, the President's kids go to a school with armed guards on site. Yet most schools in America are "gun free zones". So does that mean Americans don't value their children? It would appear that way to someone on the outside anyways. Presidents and CEO's get armed secrity for themselves and their families. The peasants can just be victims right?
Exactly!