Silk Road forums
Discussion => Off topic => Topic started by: kmfkewm on January 04, 2013, 03:00 pm
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Let's see.
Health:
1. Purity would be guaranteed, much as it is with acetaminophen and aspirin. Varying purity between batches of drugs is one of the leading causes of overdose.
2. Substances would be what they are marketed as. No more people dying because they took PMA that they thought was MDMA.
3. IV use could be made safer. No more bans on buying needles without prescriptions , as exist in some areas. Needle exchanges can be set up, they are also banned some places.
4. Serious drug health education can begin, drugs can come with harm reduction sheets on how to minimize the damages.
5. Drug combinations can be created that reduce the risk of damage from the drug use. Recreational drugs can be mixed with neuroprotective drugs to inhibit brain damage.
6. The new found purity of drugs means they wont be cut with dangerous substances like cocaine currently tends to be cut with levamisole leading to people having flesh rotting away from their faces and arms where they inject it at
7. Actual research on the harmful effects of drugs can be carried out. Research chemicals can actually be professionally analyzed with animal experiments and such carried out, in the hopes of preventing people from using inherently highly dangerous drugs.
8. Professional quality control during manufacturing means that we will avoid things like MPPP/MPTP happening again
9. Prepackaging of drugs means that you will get pre measured doses in the correct units, no more stupid kids trying to eyeball drugs that are active at 1 MG
Other:
1. People will no longer need to go to dangerous areas to purchase drugs (some do!)
2. The Cartels will immediately go out of business, saving tens of thousands of lives every single year
3. Drug oriented gangs will have their profits majorly slashed, leading to an over all reduction in crime
4. Not to mention there will no longer be drug related gang wars, saving thousands of lives a year including the lives of innocents caught in the cross fire
5. Not to mention kids wont be caught with drugs and sent to prisons where they turn into hardened career criminals
6. Not to mention the prison population will be cut in half almost immediately, leading to a major upswing in the economy not only from all of the new productive citizens but also from our lack of need to fund a massive prison industry (but boo fucking hoo some dumb fuck DEA agent will lose his job! IMO they will be lucky to not lose their lives by the time people wake up to this farce)
7. Not to mention trillions of dollars a year spent fighting the war on drugs can be spent on more important things, like rehabilitation for the people who actually need it (hint: not everyone who uses drugs is a fucking addict!), like research into drug safety and all kinds of other good productive things that don't involve ENSLAVING THE INNOCENT
I am sure the list goes on and on but I just wanted to get it started, feel free to add the many things I missed.
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here is another, with legalized drugs there could be regulation to prevent them from getting to young kids. (btw: I am anti regulation and actually anti taxation at all, so some of these points I would still be against, but they are FAR SUPERIOR to the current state of affairs).
So let's see, what are the DEA agents in favor of. They are in favor of:
Drug users dying from overdoses and mislabeled drugs, drug users having their flesh eaten away by dangerous cuts, drug users becoming infected with HIV and other blood transferable diseases (and thus they are in favor of the general spread of disease throughout society), brain damage in drug users, an uneducated and misinformed society, a complete lack of knowledge about recreational drugs being available, children having access to drugs and overdosing on them and drug users becoming afflicted with diseases such as parkinsons.
They are also in favor of enslaving drug users, selling them to a prison industrial industry for slave labor and to justify the extortion of trillions of wasted dollars from the American tax payers. They are the biggest supporters of the Cartels across the entire world and thus they support the murder of tens of thousands of innocent people, they support a major gang culture across the entire world and the funding of all forms of criminality. They support the erosion of civil rights not only in the USA but also across the entire world.
Let us also not forget that these cockroaches are by their own admission supporters of Islamic terrorism (and really all forms of terrorism), supporters of fascism and tyranny, supporters of a culture of mistrust and supporters of racism.
Why does the DEA support these things, you may ask! There must be some awesome advantage to be had for such a laundry list of evil things to be supported. Unfortunately, the reason is simple and falls into one of two categories:
A. Some DEA agents support these things because they believe it is what a Make Believe Magical Jewish Zombie Wizard who lives in the sky wants.
B. Other DEA agents support these things because it gets them a pay check every year and lets them play around like they are military troops, and it is the only way they can do these things because they are too stupid to get real jobs that are actually beneficial to society and they are too incompetent to actually be in the military.
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i wish we could do a smear campaign within all LE offices with such material.
the alternate communities revenge for all the propaganda that we've had to put up with over our lives.
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Accidental deaths by drugs would be a thing of the past, for sure.
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5. Not to mention kids wont be caught with drugs and sent to prisons where they turn into hardened career criminals
And non-violent drug convictions won't fuck up people's job prospects and lives. You can't get a job bagging groceries with a felony, since most grocery stores have blanket policies against hiring felons.
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5. Not to mention kids wont be caught with drugs and sent to prisons where they turn into hardened career criminals
And non-violent drug convictions won't fuck up people's job prospects and lives. You can't get a job bagging groceries with a felony, since most grocery stores have blanket policies against hiring felons.
Astor is right, no jobs for felons if there is a cash register in the equation, no retail jobs at all. I know a really sweet, smart kid caught up in a mess like this who is not only without a job but can't even go back to school, I guess it can be tough getting into a decent school with felony.
This kid is having to go the self-employment route, trying to piece together a living. Add to that, if you live in a small town, sometimes it's just better to bug out and start over somewhere else. Local cops routinely dog this kid when they're bored and need something to do. It's really a sad, when a young person makes one mistake with life-long consequences. I suppose I was really, really lucky to have survived all of the stupid-ass things I did in my teens and in my twenties - really lucky...
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know a really sweet, smart kid caught up in a mess like this who is not only without a job but can't even go back to school, I guess it can be tough getting into a decent school with felony.
Drug convictions prevent you from getting loans, scholarships and many forms of federal assistance. There are blanket policies preventing you from working in many sectors.
I should point out this is an American thing. European countries have slightly more sensible drug policies. In some countries, they wipe non-violent drug convictions from your record after 10 years.
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BTW, kids like that get their lives fucked up, but the bankers who launder billions for cartels will never see the inside of a jail cell because they are too big, rich and important to prosecute.
America, fuck yeah!
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BTW, kids like that get their lives fucked up, but the bankers who launder billions for cartels will never see the inside of a jail cell because they are too big, rich and important to prosecute.
America, fuck yeah!
Our drug paraphernalia laws are ridiculous too.
In Arizona, possession of drug paraphernalia is a felony so in that state, a person can be sent to federal prison for up to two years for having a bong. Yet medical marijuana is legal in AZ
In Alabama, anyone caught selling pipes or bongs to a minor can be sentenced to 20 years on felony charges.
None of this makes any sense to me: 20 years in prison for possessing a water pipe, a device that has been around almost since the beginning of time Like you said, bankers can rob us blind and take the country to the brink of disaster and not only walk, they get hundreds of millions of dollars in bonuses and golden parachutes. It's sickening.
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Who cares, we are making money this way.
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BTW, kids like that get their lives fucked up, but the bankers who launder billions for cartels will never see the inside of a jail cell because they are too big, rich and important to prosecute.
America, fuck yeah!
This is the one that cuts me, this exact example. The fact that the people who are the true offenders, who enable and support this stuff, the people who are the reason it is allowed to thrive don't get any punishments... but god forbid you get picked up with a gram(any drug, doesn't even matter) in your pocket.
I just don't like it. :(
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If drugs were legal then everybody would take drugs.
As it is now it is hardly illegal at all anyway.
Only if you have million dollars worth of drugs do policeman do anything to you.
Even then only if you are caught with scales and bags or crackpipe or whatever.
Cops normally will let you go on your way and will not even take your drugs from you if you are completely honest with them.
This might mean that you have to reveal who you bought them from.
But this is cool too because as long as your dealer is not the mafia or triad gangmaster, then he get to keep all his drug too.
If everybody take drugs then there will be alot of more murders and rapes etc.
So that is why they keep the status Quo.
That is you and your freind do not have to fear LE you just need to be honest and they will treat you with kindness.
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If drugs were legal then everybody would take drugs.
As it is now it is hardly illegal at all anyway.
Only if you have million dollars worth of drugs do policeman do anything to you.
Even then only if you are caught with scales and bags or crackpipe or whatever.
Cops normally will let you go on your way and will not even take your drugs from you if you are completely honest with them.
This might mean that you have to reveal who you bought them from.
But this is cool too because as long as your dealer is not the mafia or triad gangmaster, then he get to keep all his drug too.
If everybody take drugs then there will be alot of more murders and rapes etc.
So that is why they keep the status Quo.
That is you and your freind do not have to fear LE you just need to be honest and they will treat you with kindness.
Its true law enforcement is very lenient on users and small time dealers. Some cops raided an apartment next to my buddies and the cops apologized to the guy after because they thought he was dealing large amounts and even gave his coke back.
In countries where there is decriminalization, they actually don't see an increase drug use and crime so i think your wrong on that one.
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Drugs would be MUCH safer as a legal commodity rather than an illegal illicit one.
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OP, exactly. I can't say that I can think of any other points atm, but I certainly agree. I would think the U.S. government would actually profit from legalization and be able to actually pay off some of this damn debt instead of taking it out of my fucking paycheck...I was just sitting in a mcdonald's parking lot yesterday daydreaming of the day when I can just sit there eating my fries and whip out my drugs without worrying about a cop or a "concerned" citizen pulling up. Luckily, I'm sneaky.
If drugs were legal then everybody would take drugs.
As it is now it is hardly illegal at all anyway.
Only if you have million dollars worth of drugs do policeman do anything to you.
Even then only if you are caught with scales and bags or crackpipe or whatever.
Cops normally will let you go on your way and will not even take your drugs from you if you are completely honest with them.
This might mean that you have to reveal who you bought them from.
But this is cool too because as long as your dealer is not the mafia or triad gangmaster, then he get to keep all his drug too.
If everybody take drugs then there will be alot of more murders and rapes etc.
So that is why they keep the status Quo.
That is you and your freind do not have to fear LE you just need to be honest and they will treat you with kindness.
I don't typically call people idiots (to their face at least) but you, sir, are an idiot. All over the forums with your bullshit today, are we? Fine...
I'm sick, therefore, I'm mean today. And I'm going to start taking it out on you and your stupid friend giggles....congrats.
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OP, exactly. I can't say that I can think of any other points atm, but I certainly agree. I would think the U.S. government would actually profit from legalization and be able to actually pay off some of this damn debt instead of taking it out of my fucking paycheck...I was just sitting in a mcdonald's parking lot yesterday daydreaming of the day when I can just sit there eating my fries and whip out my drugs without worrying about a cop or a "concerned" citizen pulling up. Luckily, I'm sneaky.
If drugs were legal then everybody would take drugs.
As it is now it is hardly illegal at all anyway.
Only if you have million dollars worth of drugs do policeman do anything to you.
Even then only if you are caught with scales and bags or crackpipe or whatever.
Cops normally will let you go on your way and will not even take your drugs from you if you are completely honest with them.
This might mean that you have to reveal who you bought them from.
But this is cool too because as long as your dealer is not the mafia or triad gangmaster, then he get to keep all his drug too.
If everybody take drugs then there will be alot of more murders and rapes etc.
So that is why they keep the status Quo.
That is you and your freind do not have to fear LE you just need to be honest and they will treat you with kindness.
I don't typically call people idiots (to their face at least) but you, sir, are an idiot. All over the forums with your bullshit today, are we? Fine...
I'm sick, therefore, I'm mean today. And I'm going to start taking it out on you and your stupid friend giggles....congrats.
Me and giggles are propa lo-down MC's.
U don't know shit busta!
DARE fuck with ME. JUST DARE!
Especially with the shit that I am having in real life at the mo.
You will be one sorry ass punk saint.
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If drugs were legal then everybody would take drugs.
As it is now it is hardly illegal at all anyway.
Cops normally will let you go on your way and will not even take your drugs from you if you are completely honest with them.
This might mean that you have to reveal who you bought them from.
But this is cool too because as long as your dealer is not the mafia or triad gangmaster, then he get to keep all his drug too.
If everybody take drugs then there will be alot of more murders and rapes etc.
That is you and your freind do not have to fear LE you just need to be honest and they will treat you with kindness.
Yup, honesty will only get you kindness and honesty in return... ::)
-onion-
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Who cares, we are making money this way.
This, I'd be pissed if I woke up one morning and found out that all drugs became legalized. That would be the end of my business for me.
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Who cares, we are making money this way.
The users care. We would rather buy cheap pharmaceutical grade drugs made by a pharmaceutical company in a competitive market than buy impure or stepped on drugs that come through dodgy criminal organizations or dodgy labs in a far off corner of China. That said, since the former is mostly not an option, I'm not complaining about the latter. And frankly, market pressures created by SR do create an environment in which high quality drugs and professional sellers abound. In fact, you're an example of this, Lim. But still, most of us would prefer to obtain our drugs legally through legitimate channels, if we could.
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I would love it if drugs became legal. Most of them at least.
I think shrooms, lsd, molly, weed, and salvia should all be legal. These drugs have really opened up my mind in many ways, even spiritual ways. I feel that I have a greater understanding of the world because of these drugs and I would love it that anyone could try them and wake up into reality.
I feel like this is never gonna happen, at least not anytime soon.
I get a little paranoid and I also believe larger organizations of people are behind the prohibition of mind opening drugs. If people would experiment more society would be different, probably better vibes and less restriction and crime (murders, human trafficking, etc). Governments would have less control and these people would also lose economic and political control - whoever they are.
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This, I'd be pissed if I woke up one morning and found out that all drugs became legalized. That would be the end of my business for me.
It would also put a significant dent in violent cartels and gangs. I'm sure they would find other illegal sources of income, but that's a trade off well worth making.
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Who cares, we are making money this way.
This, I'd be pissed if I woke up one morning and found out that all drugs became legalized. That would be the end of my business for me.
Limetless who cares if I kidnap you at gun point and let truckers butt fuck you for $10 an hour so long as I make some money?
Law Enforcement and Prohibitionists = Cockroaches
Drug users who are prohibitionists = Traitors
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Who cares, we are making money this way.
This, I'd be pissed if I woke up one morning and found out that all drugs became legalized. That would be the end of my business for me.
Limetless who cares if I kidnap you at gun point and let truckers butt fuck you for $10 an hour so long as I make some money?
Law Enforcement and Prohibitionists = Cockroaches
Drug users who are prohibitionists = Traitors
No one, that's the beauty of it... you get your money, and the world keeps going round.
If you're in this game for the money you should be ready to accept consequences. If you're not... well, that's your fault, just don't fucking rat on me.
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It would be much safer in terms of quality, everything would be lab grade, etc.
I imagine one day instead of walking into a club, bar, etc and seeing a wall of alcohol, you will instead be able to buy weed, coke, pills, etc.
It would stop crime and so many deaths. ;)
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Who cares, we are making money this way.
This, I'd be pissed if I woke up one morning and found out that all drugs became legalized. That would be the end of my business for me.
Limetless who cares if I kidnap you at gun point and let truckers butt fuck you for $10 an hour so long as I make some money?
Law Enforcement and Prohibitionists = Cockroaches
Drug users who are prohibitionists = Traitors
No one, that's the beauty of it... you get your money, and the world keeps going round.
If you're in this game for the money you should be ready to accept consequences. If you're not... well, that's your fault, just don't fucking rat on me.
but what if someone offers me money to rat on you ?!
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Who cares, we are making money this way.
This, I'd be pissed if I woke up one morning and found out that all drugs became legalized. That would be the end of my business for me.
Limetless who cares if I kidnap you at gun point and let truckers butt fuck you for $10 an hour so long as I make some money?
Law Enforcement and Prohibitionists = Cockroaches
Drug users who are prohibitionists = Traitors
No one, that's the beauty of it... you get your money, and the world keeps going round.
If you're in this game for the money you should be ready to accept consequences. If you're not... well, that's your fault, just don't fucking rat on me.
but what if someone offers me money to rat on you ?!
Go ahead bruh, LE can't do shit about some random ass person claiming that I have drugs. :P
Thing is, if competition actually got that feisty with me, I'd prolly be shooting the same shit back at them... so, it's all fair to me!!
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Who cares, we are making money this way.
Ahhhh, the old Slave Driver, Human Trafficker, Pimp excuse. :P
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It's not like the money currently being spent on drugs would disappear if they were legalized. So instead of selling illegally, you could open a shop and sell it legally, possibly make even more money that way and without the legal risk.
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It's not like the money currently being spent on drugs would disappear if they were legalized. So instead of selling illegally, you could open a shop and sell it legally, possibly make even more money that way and without the legal risk.
That's exactly what I think of when this subject gets brought up.
If all or most drugs became legal, then you'll definitely see me opening up a shop providing the very best product and customer service possible. ;D
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drug dealers who are in favor of prohibition so they can make money are no better than DEA agents
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drug dealers who are in favor of prohibition so they can make money are no better than DEA agents
Never claimed to be. I support the DEA so that I can make money.
I can never confidently say that though. I'd have to be some kind of drug lord with loads of protection.
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As it is now it is hardly illegal at all anyway.
Only if you have million dollars worth of drugs do policeman do anything to you.
Even then only if you are caught with scales and bags or crackpipe or whatever.
Cops normally will let you go on your way and will not even take your drugs from you if you are completely honest with them.
This might mean that you have to reveal who you bought them from.
But this is cool too because as long as your dealer is not the mafia or triad gangmaster, then he get to keep all his drug too.
WTF are you talking about.? Cops arrest people all the time for pipes, less than an oz of weed, a single pill of X, etc etc etc.
This is how they get people to roll over on the dealers most of the time actually. I would be shocked if the total arrest count was higher for big busts than smaller busts anywhere in any county in the US.
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this thread makes me fucking sick. I love how it is always me who needs to suffer for others, who cares about my dead friends or my friends dying in fucking prison so long as limetless can make an extra buck right? DEA win with their jobs and limetless wins with his meph money. It is so nice knowing that two sides of evil want to enslave me and have my friends die for their profits. Of course wanting to not be enslaved is the most insane thought possible. If they want me to go to prison then it is my fault for upsetting them! And really who cares, I mean people have to have jobs and make money right?
I hope they are all shot and bleed together.
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Who cares, we are making money this way.
Ahhhh, the old Slave Driver, Human Trafficker, Pimp excuse. :P
I don't give a fuck, I'm not here to start a revolution or change the world. I want to make a lot of money and then retire and go legit.
And KMF you need to suffer because you fuck kids. Also I don't know your friends in prison so I don't give a shiny shite about them either (if they aren't imaginary which I suspect they are). Why would I give a monkey's nut about people who I have NEVER even met and NEVER will? Why should I care about you, your hopeless cause (because your anarchistic wet dream is about as likely to happen as you deciding to want to have sex with fully developed women overnight). And yeah, actually, I fully accept the potential consequences of my activities. If I get nicked, that's my ass but that's the decision you make when you decide to do that first line, smoke that first spliff and think "Shit, might be a few quid in this". The problem is you want your cake and eat it and also, I sense that if you got done over in the street or your house was burgled or your wife attacked I know the first thing you'd do and it wouldn't be rally the revolutionaries, it'd be call 911 because you are all chat and no balls.
Like I said on another thread, if you're such a bad mother fucker, go out and shoot a pig and YouTube the mother fucker. Oh shit......that isn't gunna happen is it? Because you're just another autistic computer geek who has big ideas but has fuck all knowledge of how the real world works. What you also fail to understand is that most people do not take drugs recreationally and why should the minority impose it's will on the majority. Don't get me wrong I think it's fucking ridiculous that a powder is made illegal but would I want it being done in places where children could see it in open view? Fuck no. Would I wrap a brick round someones head if they offered it to my children (if I have any at all). Yes. Am I glad this thread makes KMF sick? Certainly. :)
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It would be much safer in terms of quality, everything would be lab grade, etc.
I imagine one day instead of walking into a club, bar, etc and seeing a wall of alcohol, you will instead be able to buy weed, coke, pills, etc.
It would stop crime and so many deaths. ;)
This is extremely naive. Addicts always cause crime because addicts need their fix.
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listen, if you look at how america treats the legal drugs, you'll realize its kind of a shitty idea to just let it be open to the public. people drink as much as possible and make a competition out of it. some people smoke close to 40 ciggs a day! some people drink multiple pots of coffee in one day! i could go on.
if this is how people treat drugs, legalizing things like meth, cocaine, heroin, etc is just a terrible fucking idea!
humans are animals, driven on instinct.
they tend to consume as much as possible and i think it would be a disaster.
not to say that some of us dont have self control because im sure some do, but the vast majority will "do it till its gone"
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This escalated quickly.
Why would I give a monkey's nut about people who I have NEVER even met and NEVER will?
I would take that as a warning to all of Limetless' future customers.
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Addicts always cause crime because addicts need their fix.
This is true to an extent. Legalizing drugs wouldn't be a panacea against all their social ills. Consider all the problems associated with alcohol abuse. It is implicated in a large percentage of date rapes and domestic abuse situations, traffic accidents and deaths, gun and other accidents (falling off balconies, etc.), lost jobs, and health problems. Some legalized drugs would have the same terrible consequences that they do today, but it's also true that the organized violence, the gang warfare, the Mexican kidnappings, would be gone. Well, Mexican cartels might still kidnap, but not to protect a drug trade.
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This escalated quickly.
Why would I give a monkey's nut about people who I have NEVER even met and NEVER will?
I would take that as a warning to all of Limetless' future customers.
lol well limitless is one of the most respected vendors around here...
i dont think you are going to hurt his business too much.
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This escalated quickly.
Why would I give a monkey's nut about people who I have NEVER even met and NEVER will?
I would take that as a warning to all of Limetless' future customers.
No you see this is the difference that people do no understand. One is professional with clients because it is good for business, but they are not your friends it is purely a business transaction and you extend the care and responsibility that that entails. However, if you have no business or personal relationship with someone.....of the many fucks I have in my pocket, I'm not giving any out because well I'd be a bit of a tool if I did. It's also completely dishonest for anyone to say that they actually feel any other way than this.
Please KMF, explain to me why I should have any thought about you or anyone you know. I have never met, nor ever will meet you and I am sure I would have nothing in common with you. Why should I invent emotion when there is none that genuinely occurred? Would you rather me lie and get on a pedestal and talk a load of shit about how I think all prisoners are political prisoners held against their will by a savage regime? No, because then I'd be a disingenuous fuck like you because well yano, I don't really think you are the revolutionary you claim to be. Like I said, just some autistic geek with big ideas and too much to say without a lot of life experience to back it up.
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I understand that, but someone with that attitude is more likely to pull a Tony76-style exit, and you never know when that is going to happen.
If they're openly warning you, it's best to pay attention. :)
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I understand that, but someone with that attitude is more likely to pull a Tony76-style exit, and you never know when that is going to happen.
If they're openly warning you, it's best to pay attention. :)
Again incorrect.
You are basically equating someone who takes a pride in their professionalism and a realistic and pragmatic approach on the people in the world around them with Tony76. Now I just had 2 massive sales and some of the orders went missing in the rush however this was corrected because it's professional when I could have just said "suck my bojangoes mother fucker" and kept their money. This is basically along the same lines as people thinking people who are Athiests must be amoral because they don't have god telling them how to behave. I behave because I want to behave according to my own choices, not to some revolutionary ethic that to be quite frank I think a lot of the members of this forum jump on the bandwagon rather than actually believe.
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No, what I'm saying is:
You only care about people as long as you have a professional relationship with them.
That professional relationship will end when you arbitrarily and perhaps unpredictably decide to quit vending. There is nothing to make you give a fuck about them at that point.
You have admitted that you will quit vending one day.
That makes you an increased risk to scam on exit.
*Of course* now you will fix people's packages, because you want to keep vending, but that won't always be the case, and nobody knows when you'll decide to quit.
That makes you a continuing increased risk to scam at any time.
People's defense against that is to use escrow, but read the reviews of any top vendor. Lots of people "FE for trusted seller". In fact (wavelength), well respected vendors are in a position to pull the biggest scams.
Well, anyone could decide to scam and quit. I'm just saying, if someone openly expresses that attitude, it's best to pay attention.
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No, what I'm saying is:
You only care about people as long as you have a professional relationship with them.
That professional relationship will end when you arbitrarily and perhaps unpredictably decide to quit vending. There is nothing to make you give a fuck about them at that point.
You have admitted that you will quit vending one day.
That makes you an increased risk to scam on exit.
*Of course* now you will fix people's packages, because you want to keep vending, but that won't always be the case, and nobody knows when you'll decide to quit.
That makes you a continuing increased risk to scam at any time.
People's defense against that is to use escrow, but read the reviews of any top vendor. Lots of people "FE for trusted seller". In fact (wavelength), well respected vendors are in a position to pull the biggest scams.
Well, anyone could decide to scam and quit. I'm just saying, if someone openly expresses that attitude, it's best to pay attention.
Ok I guess I see your point on this, but that's the case for all the higher up vendors but my point here really is that it depends on the vendor themselves. In fact let's take a look at some of the vendors that have done a runner, most of them did the whole "Yay for SR praise the revolution" thing so I think that really shows that it matters very little. In fact I'd go as far to say as that it's probably the case that a some (not all) do this to increase their sales because it probably makes buyers feel more secure. For me I do not want people to buy from me because of my politics, I'd be much happier to know people are buying from me because I'm here to do my job properly and that they like my shit.
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No, what I'm saying is:
You only care about people as long as you have a professional relationship with them.
That professional relationship will end when you arbitrarily and perhaps unpredictably decide to quit vending. There is nothing to make you give a fuck about them at that point.
You have admitted that you will quit vending one day.
That makes you an increased risk to scam on exit.
*Of course* now you will fix people's packages, because you want to keep vending, but that won't always be the case, and nobody knows when you'll decide to quit.
That makes you a continuing increased risk to scam at any time.
People's defense against that is to use escrow, but read the reviews of any top vendor. Lots of people "FE for trusted seller". In fact (wavelength), well respected vendors are in a position to pull the biggest scams.
Well, anyone could decide to scam and quit. I'm just saying, if someone openly expresses that attitude, it's best to pay attention.
Ok I guess I see your point on this, but that's the case for all the higher up vendors but my point here really is that it depends on the vendor themselves. In fact let's take a look at some of the vendors that have done a runner, most of them did the whole "Yay for SR praise the revolution" thing so I think that really shows that it matters very little. In fact I'd go as far to say as that it's probably the case that a some (not all) do this to increase their sales because it probably makes buyers feel more secure. For me I do not want people to buy from me because of my politics, I'd be much happier to know people are buying from me because I'm here to do my job properly and that they like my shit.
Another lack-of-correlation; A lot of the FE-scammers sold heroin. Lim does not.
Honestly, I think that part is more indicative then anything. The guys with either the connections, or the ability to fake the connections, to get a fuck-ton of heroin also tend to be the guys who will steal as much money as they can. I would have thought the bulk-dealers of heroin would be more honest. ... Nah. I'm not that naive.
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In fact let's take a look at some of the vendors that have done a runner, most of them did the whole "Yay for SR praise the revolution" thing so I think that really shows that it matters very little. In fact I'd go as far to say as that it's probably the case that a some (not all) do this to increase their sales because it probably makes buyers feel more secure.
I totally agree with you. The moral of the story (to everyone else) is that whether you're buying from Limetless or anyone else, stay in escrow. :)
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listen, if you look at how america treats the legal drugs, you'll realize its kind of a shitty idea to just let it be open to the public. people drink as much as possible and make a competition out of it. some people smoke close to 40 ciggs a day! some people drink multiple pots of coffee in one day! i could go on.
if this is how people treat drugs, legalizing things like meth, cocaine, heroin, etc is just a terrible fucking idea!
humans are animals, driven on instinct.
they tend to consume as much as possible and i think it would be a disaster.
not to say that some of us dont have self control because im sure some do, but the vast majority will "do it till its gone"
I agree that drugs should not just be blanket legalized. It would lead to WAY too many issues in society due to the many weak willed people who will get addicted and/or do ridiculous things while on them that endanger other people.
For many years now I have envisioned the best method of decriminalizing drugs would be to invent an a completely government regulated industry around it.
Basically it would work on a licensing system similar to drivers licenses or professional licenses. There would be instructors of classes on the varying drugs. All of these instructors would have to be certified as experts on a given substance they are teaching others about.
If an individual wanted to use said drug they would have to become certified by attending a course led by one of these instructors that reviews all currently known scientific information about these drugs. People would also consume these drugs as part of the course in a controlled setting. These classes and the certification fees should have a high cost to ensure that only people who are already leading responsible lives and have the money to pay can become licensed. We don't need any more homeless people in the world because we legalized drugs and everyone starts wasting their last dollars on them.
After the licenses are issued then we can put drugs in pharmacies and require a proper license to buy them.
Clear rules would have to be established that people are not allowed to resell stuff they get or risk losing their license completely and face huge fines - not jail time but monetary punitive damages. Also the pharmacies could control and track how much they are distributing to any individual user making it easy to prevent someone from becoming a big time dealer this way.
Proceeds from course costs and drug sales could then be used to pay for these programs and to further research on drugs and to establish recovery facilities for those in society who do get addicted - whether they be licensed users or still users obtaining drugs illegally that need help.
Regardless of whether drugs are ever legalized, the world needs to move away from the current tactic of imprisoning people for drugs and move to a model of discouraging use and helping those in trouble instead of punishing them.
Nice cover story on Time about this today: http://world.time.com/2013/01/07/u-s-marijuana-laws-ricochet-through-latin-america/
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I agree with astor, always stay in escrow.
I'm glad most drugs are illegal, my life would be boring otherwise. I love making cash this way.
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In fact let's take a look at some of the vendors that have done a runner, most of them did the whole "Yay for SR praise the revolution" thing so I think that really shows that it matters very little. In fact I'd go as far to say as that it's probably the case that a some (not all) do this to increase their sales because it probably makes buyers feel more secure.
I totally agree with you. The moral of the story (to everyone else) is that whether you're buying from Limetless or anyone else, stay in escrow. :)
So you don't think FE is fair in any circumstance?
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I can see the value of it in protecting vendors against reverse scammers. It's not unreasonable to require new buyers to do it for their first few orders. As a new buyer, I went through it myself.
Life is full of trade offs.
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I can see the value of it in protecting vendors against reverse scammers. It's not unreasonable to require new buyers to do it for their first few orders. As a new buyer, I went through it myself.
Life is full of trade offs.
Indeed. :)
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I can see the value of it in protecting vendors against reverse scammers. It's not unreasonable to require new buyers to do it for their first few orders. As a new buyer, I went through it myself.
Life is full of trade offs.
Indeed. :)
asww thats almost cute, a mutual agreement :'( :)
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It would be great if drugs were legalized. So many problems would be avoided, and the crime rate would significantly decrease. Take the American alcohol prohibition for example. Organized crime flourished when alcohol was declared illegal, and irresponsible drinking prevailed. However, when alcohol was made legal, a lot of these problems immediately disappeared. There would be even less problems with alcohol if it wasn't demonized and if the drinking age was lowered. Prohibition simply doesn't work.
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Who cares, we are making money this way.
Ahhhh, the old Slave Driver, Human Trafficker, Pimp excuse. :P
I don't give a fuck, I'm not here to start a revolution or change the world. I want to make a lot of money and then retire and go legit.
And KMF you need to suffer because you fuck kids. Also I don't know your friends in prison so I don't give a shiny shite about them either (if they aren't imaginary which I suspect they are). Why would I give a monkey's nut about people who I have NEVER even met and NEVER will? Why should I care about you, your hopeless cause (because your anarchistic wet dream is about as likely to happen as you deciding to want to have sex with fully developed women overnight). And yeah, actually, I fully accept the potential consequences of my activities. If I get nicked, that's my ass but that's the decision you make when you decide to do that first line, smoke that first spliff and think "Shit, might be a few quid in this". The problem is you want your cake and eat it and also, I sense that if you got done over in the street or your house was burgled or your wife attacked I know the first thing you'd do and it wouldn't be rally the revolutionaries, it'd be call 911 because you are all chat and no balls.
Like I said on another thread, if you're such a bad mother fucker, go out and shoot a pig and YouTube the mother fucker. Oh shit......that isn't gunna happen is it? Because you're just another autistic computer geek who has big ideas but has fuck all knowledge of how the real world works. What you also fail to understand is that most people do not take drugs recreationally and why should the minority impose it's will on the majority. Don't get me wrong I think it's fucking ridiculous that a powder is made illegal but would I want it being done in places where children could see it in open view? Fuck no. Would I wrap a brick round someones head if they offered it to my children (if I have any at all). Yes. Am I glad this thread makes KMF sick? Certainly. :)
Spoken like a true psychopath! Also love being dissed for being just another autistic computer geek. Considering autistic computer geeks are the entire reason why you can sell your drugs on the internet, getting paid in bitcoin, using Tor to hide your location, etc. You sure love to bite the hands that feed you, considering your technical skills are probably about on par with my cats. As for my friends in jail who you don't think are real, well plenty of people here can verify that I have friends in prison facing lots of years for drug trafficking that is a lot bigger time than what your cute little self does with your mephedrone lol. Additionally, why would I shoot a pig when that would be about the worst way possible to attack government officials? See a dumb brute such as yourself may think that is a good way to go about things, but if I wanted to attack them I would use my superior intelligence to construct a remote controlled flying bomb. Also my house has been burglarized and I didn't call the police because I refuse to associate myself with the police. Furthermore I have no interest in fucking kids, but for what it is worth a large amount of people in my country think that your country has legalized the fucking of children, so perhaps you shouldn't throw stones if you live in a glass house?
Also Limetless what exactly are you if not all chat and no balls? I don't see you doing jack shit either except acting like a tough baller on the internet. How have your military vehicle sales been going brah? How about we get some pics of your armored hummer? Oh you don't really have one because you just like to look like a big shot on silk road but really the extent of your balling is selling mephedrone whoooaaaaa you are one fucking bad ass dude.
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This escalated quickly.
Why would I give a monkey's nut about people who I have NEVER even met and NEVER will?
I would take that as a warning to all of Limetless' future customers.
No you see this is the difference that people do no understand. One is professional with clients because it is good for business, but they are not your friends it is purely a business transaction and you extend the care and responsibility that that entails. However, if you have no business or personal relationship with someone.....of the many fucks I have in my pocket, I'm not giving any out because well I'd be a bit of a tool if I did. It's also completely dishonest for anyone to say that they actually feel any other way than this.
Please KMF, explain to me why I should have any thought about you or anyone you know. I have never met, nor ever will meet you and I am sure I would have nothing in common with you. Why should I invent emotion when there is none that genuinely occurred? Would you rather me lie and get on a pedestal and talk a load of shit about how I think all prisoners are political prisoners held against their will by a savage regime? No, because then I'd be a disingenuous fuck like you because well yano, I don't really think you are the revolutionary you claim to be. Like I said, just some autistic geek with big ideas and too much to say without a lot of life experience to back it up.
Yes yes Limetless it is clear that you are a psychopath you can stop pointing it out. Also again I will point out that if it were not for anarchistic computer geeks, you wouldn't even be here, because every single bit of technology you are using right now was created by autistic computer geeks (including Tor, although the theory for it did indeed come from the military, it was implemented by some hackers from MIT). I know that you are not the brightest bulb in the bunch though, so I don't much care what you think. Also you know absolutely nothing about my life experience, the people I know, the things I have done or my run in with authorities. But go ahead and speculate away and paint whatever picture you want in your little head, because at the end of the day I know that you are just some dumb fuck pig dick sucker selling some research chemicals on the internet and pretending to have military vehicles and be a big coke lord (lol ya right).
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listen, if you look at how america treats the legal drugs, you'll realize its kind of a shitty idea to just let it be open to the public. people drink as much as possible and make a competition out of it. some people smoke close to 40 ciggs a day! some people drink multiple pots of coffee in one day! i could go on.
if this is how people treat drugs, legalizing things like meth, cocaine, heroin, etc is just a terrible fucking idea!
humans are animals, driven on instinct.
they tend to consume as much as possible and i think it would be a disaster.
not to say that some of us dont have self control because im sure some do, but the vast majority will "do it till its gone"
I agree that drugs should not just be blanket legalized. It would lead to WAY too many issues in society due to the many weak willed people who will get addicted and/or do ridiculous things while on them that endanger other people.
For many years now I have envisioned the best method of decriminalizing drugs would be to invent an a completely government regulated industry around it.
Basically it would work on a licensing system similar to drivers licenses or professional licenses. There would be instructors of classes on the varying drugs. All of these instructors would have to be certified as experts on a given substance they are teaching others about.
If an individual wanted to use said drug they would have to become certified by attending a course led by one of these instructors that reviews all currently known scientific information about these drugs. People would also consume these drugs as part of the course in a controlled setting. These classes and the certification fees should have a high cost to ensure that only people who are already leading responsible lives and have the money to pay can become licensed. We don't need any more homeless people in the world because we legalized drugs and everyone starts wasting their last dollars on them.
After the licenses are issued then we can put drugs in pharmacies and require a proper license to buy them.
Clear rules would have to be established that people are not allowed to resell stuff they get or risk losing their license completely and face huge fines - not jail time but monetary punitive damages. Also the pharmacies could control and track how much they are distributing to any individual user making it easy to prevent someone from becoming a big time dealer this way.
Proceeds from course costs and drug sales could then be used to pay for these programs and to further research on drugs and to establish recovery facilities for those in society who do get addicted - whether they be licensed users or still users obtaining drugs illegally that need help.
Regardless of whether drugs are ever legalized, the world needs to move away from the current tactic of imprisoning people for drugs and move to a model of discouraging use and helping those in trouble instead of punishing them.
Nice cover story on Time about this today: http://world.time.com/2013/01/07/u-s-marijuana-laws-ricochet-through-latin-america/
You act like all drug users are in trouble and need help. How about instead of being a flaming fucking hypocrite you go to rehab and stop coming to silk road?
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legalization and sale over the counter would solve every problem.
as far as a know there are three problem categories with drugs:
Illegality
Stupid users
Dishonest dealers
and these could be solved with legalization and otc selling.
Purity would be no problem, no more sugar in your speed. And you would get what ever you want. No fake shit. Properly prepared without leftover chemicals, pharma grade iv ready drugs. sold with syringes if needed.
The drug cartels, underground organizations would collapse because there is no need for them anymore. drug money would go into health care.
And we could educate users. On the spot where they buy the drugs. No more browsing around the net for dosages of a new rc chemical. Instructions are written and given to you on paper.
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listen, if you look at how america treats the legal drugs, you'll realize its kind of a shitty idea to just let it be open to the public. people drink as much as possible and make a competition out of it. some people smoke close to 40 ciggs a day! some people drink multiple pots of coffee in one day! i could go on.
if this is how people treat drugs, legalizing things like meth, cocaine, heroin, etc is just a terrible fucking idea!
humans are animals, driven on instinct.
they tend to consume as much as possible and i think it would be a disaster.
not to say that some of us dont have self control because im sure some do, but the vast majority will "do it till its gone"
I agree that drugs should not just be blanket legalized. It would lead to WAY too many issues in society due to the many weak willed people who will get addicted and/or do ridiculous things while on them that endanger other people.
For many years now I have envisioned the best method of decriminalizing drugs would be to invent an a completely government regulated industry around it.
Basically it would work on a licensing system similar to drivers licenses or professional licenses. There would be instructors of classes on the varying drugs. All of these instructors would have to be certified as experts on a given substance they are teaching others about.
If an individual wanted to use said drug they would have to become certified by attending a course led by one of these instructors that reviews all currently known scientific information about these drugs. People would also consume these drugs as part of the course in a controlled setting. These classes and the certification fees should have a high cost to ensure that only people who are already leading responsible lives and have the money to pay can become licensed. We don't need any more homeless people in the world because we legalized drugs and everyone starts wasting their last dollars on them.
After the licenses are issued then we can put drugs in pharmacies and require a proper license to buy them.
Clear rules would have to be established that people are not allowed to resell stuff they get or risk losing their license completely and face huge fines - not jail time but monetary punitive damages. Also the pharmacies could control and track how much they are distributing to any individual user making it easy to prevent someone from becoming a big time dealer this way.
Proceeds from course costs and drug sales could then be used to pay for these programs and to further research on drugs and to establish recovery facilities for those in society who do get addicted - whether they be licensed users or still users obtaining drugs illegally that need help.
Regardless of whether drugs are ever legalized, the world needs to move away from the current tactic of imprisoning people for drugs and move to a model of discouraging use and helping those in trouble instead of punishing them.
Nice cover story on Time about this today: http://world.time.com/2013/01/07/u-s-marijuana-laws-ricochet-through-latin-america/
You act like all drug users are in trouble and need help. How about instead of being a flaming fucking hypocrite you go to rehab and stop coming to silk road?
is this to hooby? its just an opinion man...
why are you sippin on dat hateraide cuz?
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legalization and sale over the counter would solve every problem.
as far as a know there are three problem categories with drugs:
Illegality
Stupid users
Dishonest dealers
and these could be solved with legalization and otc selling.
Purity would be no problem, no more sugar in your speed. And you would get what ever you want. No fake shit. Properly prepared without leftover chemicals, pharma grade iv ready drugs. sold with syringes if needed.
The drug cartels, underground organizations would collapse because there is no need for them anymore. drug money would go into health care.
And we could educate users. On the spot where they buy the drugs. No more browsing around the net for dosages of a new rc chemical. Instructions are written and given to you on paper.
But what about the people with IQ's of 60 who only know how to sell drugs and arrest drug users? Wont somebody please think of the retards!
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legalization and sale over the counter would solve every problem.
as far as a know there are three problem categories with drugs:
Illegality
Stupid users
Dishonest dealers
and these could be solved with legalization and otc selling.
Purity would be no problem, no more sugar in your speed. And you would get what ever you want. No fake shit. Properly prepared without leftover chemicals, pharma grade iv ready drugs. sold with syringes if needed.
The drug cartels, underground organizations would collapse because there is no need for them anymore. drug money would go into health care.
And we could educate users. On the spot where they buy the drugs. No more browsing around the net for dosages of a new rc chemical. Instructions are written and given to you on paper.
But what about the people with IQ's of 60 who only know how to sell drugs and arrest drug users? Wont somebody please think of the retards!
well they can go and do something else. Working in a mcdonalds requires about that amount of intellect.
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Sounds good to me! Free the slaves and Limetless and the DEA agents can go flip burgers for us.
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You act like all drug users are in trouble and need help. How about instead of being a flaming fucking hypocrite you go to rehab and stop coming to silk road?
I should go to rehab for what? The pharmasuasca I took on Saturday? The three times I took ecstasy last year? Yes that makes sense.
I don't think all drug users are in trouble and need help. I do think that if we sold drugs over the counter to the general population without restrictions that it would lead to a lot more societal problems that people in this thread are simply not recognizing.
There are many potentially positive aspects to the decriminalization of drugs - specifically the flow of money in better directions and away from organized crime and the ability to focus on proper research and care for negative side effects and people with addictions.
But to just sell this stuff OTC in any old pharmacy is begging for trouble. Especially drugs like H, C, meth, etc. The ones that have have high addiction rates. You would wind up with a lot more little kids doing it well before they should be. You would wind up with a swath of the population who become obsessed with drugs and become apathetic about work, supporting themselves, or contributing anything meaningful to society. And all of these people would probably try to be on unemployment and welfare and blah blah blah. I am not going to pay any higher taxes to support a bunch of meth heads sitting at home tweaking all day
And then there is the fact that it would change our entire society. Especially our interactions with LE. LE would never know if someone is on PCP or meth and would probably just treat everyone like they were 100% of the time. The repercussions of this throughout society would be vast, especially in the US, if this were to happen.
Listen, I like drugs, I support freedom. But there are two sides to every story and many people that have posted in this thread acting like complete unrestricted regulation of drugs is some panacea are not considering the negative impacts, of which there would be many.
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Sounds good to me! Free the slaves and Limetless and the DEA agents can go flip burgers for us.
Lol yeah and you can touch some more kids and really start the revolution maaaaaan! You're like a broken record kid. Like I said, go shoot some cops and then I'll take you serious. Otherwise it's just pretentiousness and false ambition.
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Sounds good to me! Free the slaves and Limetless and the DEA agents can go flip burgers for us.
Lol yeah and you can touch some more kids and really start the revolution maaaaaan! You're like a broken record kid. Like I said, go shoot some cops and then I'll take you serious. Otherwise it's just pretentiousness and false ambition.
Like I said as soon as I buy one of your tanks off you I will get right to that
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You act like all drug users are in trouble and need help. How about instead of being a flaming fucking hypocrite you go to rehab and stop coming to silk road?
I should go to rehab for what? The pharmasuasca I took on Saturday? The three times I took ecstasy last year? Yes that makes sense.
I don't think all drug users are in trouble and need help. I do think that if we sold drugs over the counter to the general population without restrictions that it would lead to a lot more societal problems that people in this thread are simply not recognizing.
There are many potentially positive aspects to the decriminalization of drugs - specifically the flow of money in better directions and away from organized crime and the ability to focus on proper research and care for negative side effects and people with addictions.
But to just sell this stuff OTC in any old pharmacy is begging for trouble. Especially drugs like H, C, meth, etc. The ones that have have high addiction rates. You would wind up with a lot more little kids doing it well before they should be. You would wind up with a swath of the population who become obsessed with drugs and become apathetic about work, supporting themselves, or contributing anything meaningful to society. And all of these people would probably try to be on unemployment and welfare and blah blah blah. I am not going to pay any higher taxes to support a bunch of meth heads sitting at home tweaking all day
And then there is the fact that it would change our entire society. Especially our interactions with LE. LE would never know if someone is on PCP or meth and would probably just treat everyone like they were 100% of the time. The repercussions of this throughout society would be vast, especially in the US, if this were to happen.
Listen, I like drugs, I support freedom. But there are two sides to every story and many people that have posted in this thread acting like complete unrestricted regulation of drugs is some panacea are not considering the negative impacts, of which there would be many.
This would be a lot more convincing to me if I wasn't smoking meth with my friends when we were 14, taking massive doses of DXM and generally ordering whatever the fuck we wanted off the internet or from older kids on the street. Drugs being illegal has not stopped me from using anything at all, it hasn't stopped my friends from using anything at all, even when we were barely teenagers. I had an easier time getting meth than I had getting alcohol, not that either was at all difficult to get. All drugs being illegal has done is made it more dangerous for us, more of us are in the prison system, more of us have died from overdoses. So you can hold whatever belief you want, but the reality is I knew 13 year olds who were injecting oxy and getting tweaked out and the fact that it was illegal meant fuck all. All it meant was we were exposed to hardened criminals, we were sent to prisons and we were forced to use drugs in the least safe and least educated ways possible. That is reality.
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This would be a lot more convincing to me if I wasn't smoking meth with my friends when we were 14, taking massive doses of DXM and generally ordering whatever the fuck we wanted off the internet or from older kids on the street. Drugs being illegal has not stopped me from using anything at all, it hasn't stopped my friends from using anything at all, even when we were barely teenagers. I had an easier time getting meth than I had getting alcohol, not that either was at all difficult to get. All drugs being illegal has done is made it more dangerous for us, more of us are in the prison system, more of us have died from overdoses. So you can hold whatever belief you want, but the reality is I knew 13 year olds who were injecting oxy and getting tweaked out and the fact that it was illegal meant fuck all. All it meant was we were exposed to hardened criminals, we were sent to prisons and we were forced to use drugs in the least safe and least educated ways possible. That is reality.
I am not sure where in this argument you give any reasoning for an OTC system being superior to a licensing system, which is what I advocated; but I suppose that someone who has been doing meth since they were 14 instead of letting their brain fully develop and who has been hanging out with drug addicts his entire life might have a hard time following or responding to an argument using logic. (SIDE NOTE: Awesome having the balls to call someone you don't know a drug addict when you've been a meth head since 14).
I never said our current system is beneficial to anyone. I said we need to move away from it (short term memory already forgot that part?). I agree with some of the things you say in this paragraph, but you also display a shocking amount of ignorance for the fact that other people in the world don't hang out in the same crowds as you do.
Sure, whether drugs are prohibited, licensed, legalized, or whatever, you and your druggy friends will continue doing meth and feeding it to your children. But whether or not you want to admit it, the current system of prohibition does discourage and prevent many people throughout society from partaking in these drugs. Some of it is simple fear of breaking the law, others just don't do it because everyone around them see it as morally wrong. It is always going to be possible for people to obtain drugs, but that doesn't mean we should just give unlimited access to everyone without any education and pretend like it's a regular part of life for everyone to do them. This is just asking for trouble.
How many people do you know over the age of 21 that haven't tried alcohol? How about meth? Well, maybe you're a bad example since it seems that all of your friends are druggies but hopefully you see my point - the free access to alcohol, not to mention all of the marketing around it, has caused our society to be one in which it is almost unheard of that a normal person hasn't at least tried alcohol at some point in their life. Do you truly believe that society would be better off if every person experimented with heroin and meth and cocaine? All this is likely to do is turn out more addicts in the world as people with addictive personalities try something they want to keep doing. There is no reason to encourage this sort of behavior. People should be able to seek out mind altering experiences if they wish. And that is why I am in favor of a licensing system that allows those that are interested to fulfill their wishes, so long as they are responsible citizens of society and not bums or criminals who either can't afford it or have proven themselves to be irresponsible already.
You completely failed to respond at all to the comment about unemployment, something I am guessing you will end up filing for at some point in your life if all you do is hang out with meth heads and people going to prison. There are also the healthcare costs to consider. But of course that doesn't matter to someone like you probably as you're probably not paying back into the system anything. In your eyes, we should just let you do your drugs and then pay for your unemployment and healthcare after you've lost all your jobs and destroyed your body I suppose?
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Sounds good to me! Free the slaves and Limetless and the DEA agents can go flip burgers for us.
Lol yeah and you can touch some more kids and really start the revolution maaaaaan! You're like a broken record kid. Like I said, go shoot some cops and then I'll take you serious. Otherwise it's just pretentiousness and false ambition.
Like I said as soon as I buy one of your tanks off you I will get right to that
Sounds like a rather tin-pot excuse for a revolutionary KMF. I thought you believed in the cause, like I said, balls man, otherwise it's just rhetoric.
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I am not sure where in this argument you give any reasoning for an OTC system being superior to a licensing system, which is what I advocated; but I suppose that someone who has been doing meth since they were 14 instead of letting their brain fully develop and who has been hanging out with drug addicts his entire life might have a hard time following or responding to an argument using logic. (SIDE NOTE: Awesome having the balls to call someone you don't know a drug addict when you've been a meth head since 14).
First of all I will admit that I responded too harshly to you, mainly I am irritated at the wanker known as Limetless (whose name is somewhat of an oxymoron as it is not spelled correctly), I should not have snapped at you. In fact, your proposed system is not that bad at all. Mainly I hyper focused on one particular statement of yours
and move to a model of discouraging use and helping those in trouble instead of punishing them.
I disagree with this. First of all I took it to imply that you consider drug users to be in trouble, although this may have been reading into what you said. However I also disagree with discouraging drug use, you seem to be of the opinion that drug use is inherently bad and I highly disagree with this. We should not discourage drug use, rather we should encourage responsible drug use. I suggested that you go to rehab not because I think you are a drug addict, but because you are a drug user who advocated discouraging drug use, thus making yourself somewhat of a hypocrite.
I never said our current system is beneficial to anyone. I said we need to move away from it (short term memory already forgot that part?). I agree with some of the things you say in this paragraph, but you also display a shocking amount of ignorance for the fact that other people in the world don't hang out in the same crowds as you do.
Actually according to the professional IQ testing I have taken my short term memory is in the 99th percentile, so nope short term memory has not already forgotten that part. Your argument in your second post is that one reason for drugs to remain illegal is because children will use them, my counter argument was that children are already using drugs. You particularly named methamphetamine as a drug that children will use if it is legalized, I countered this by saying the fact of the matter is that when I was a child I and my peers already had ready access to methamphetamine.
Sure, whether drugs are prohibited, licensed, legalized, or whatever, you and your druggy friends will continue doing meth and feeding it to your children. But whether or not you want to admit it, the current system of prohibition does discourage and prevent many people throughout society from partaking in these drugs. Some of it is simple fear of breaking the law, others just don't do it because everyone around them see it as morally wrong. It is always going to be possible for people to obtain drugs, but that doesn't mean we should just give unlimited access to everyone without any education and pretend like it's a regular part of life for everyone to do them. This is just asking for trouble.
Fortunately for me I never became addicted to meth despite trying it some dozen or so times at a young age, although indeed I do have quite a lot of druggie friends! However none of my friends have fed meth to their children, although some of them were fed drugs by their parents as young children :(. The thing is, whether or not you want to admit it, children who want to use meth are going to use it regardless of what the law is. Trust me, I know this. I remember being young and although I knew plenty of people who didn't want to use meth, I cannot recall a single person who said 'Well I would love to use meth guys, but it is illegal so I better not!" , and in my opinion you are living in somewhat of a fantasy if you think this is at all a common occurrence. You say that we should not give unlimited access without any education, but that is exactly what you are arguing for. See, there already is unlimited access. Anyone can get hard drugs, even young children can without challenge. By making the drugs illegal you are clearly not stopping children from having access to them, but you are ensuring their exposure to the criminal world, you are ensuring that they are not properly educated and you are ensuring that there is a lack of quality control. The only thing you are failing to do is prevent children from gaining access to drugs.
How many people do you know over the age of 21 that haven't tried alcohol? How about meth? Well, maybe you're a bad example since it seems that all of your friends are druggies but hopefully you see my point - the free access to alcohol, not to mention all of the marketing around it, has caused our society to be one in which it is almost unheard of that a normal person hasn't at least tried alcohol at some point in their life. Do you truly believe that society would be better off if every person experimented with heroin and meth and cocaine? All this is likely to do is turn out more addicts in the world as people with addictive personalities try something they want to keep doing. There is no reason to encourage this sort of behavior. People should be able to seek out mind altering experiences if they wish. And that is why I am in favor of a licensing system that allows those that are interested to fulfill their wishes, so long as they are responsible citizens of society and not bums or criminals who either can't afford it or have proven themselves to be irresponsible already.
Do you seriously think that the only reason meth has not been tried by as many people as alcohol is because meth is illegal? Maybe in your world people give half a fuck about the law, but in my experiences things being illegal does not prevent people from trying them. Also your hypocrisy continues to show by accusing me and my friends of being druggies, because although this is true you are obviously a druggie yourself. I mean, you have admitted to using MDMA multiple times as well as DMT, four drug experiences in a year comes down to once every three months (assuming that this is all you have done), and in the eyes of mainstream society this enough to qualify you as a druggie. Also, I have experimented with heroin meth and cocaine and I do not feel as if my life is much worse from it. Meth I tried at the young age of 14, I didn't keep track of how many times I used it but I would say under two dozen. Cocaine I tried multiple times over a few months when I was 17, and heroin I partook in several times over the course of two weeks when I was 22. I did not become addicted to any of these substances, I did not resort to stealing to fund my 'habit' , pretty much nothing bad happened to me. Now I do know that bad things can happen to users of these drugs, just a few days ago a friend of mine overdosed and died from heroin. You know what I blame for this? I blame the fact that he was fresh out of prison for a failed piss test and he had no tolerance. I blame the fact that end users never know the purity of the heroin they are taking and he couldn't have known the exact dose he was taking. Maybe he would still have died if heroin was legal, I guess nobody really knows, but I think that if heroin was legal and pure and not cut that he would probably still be alive today. I also know plenty of people who have become addicted to meth and heroin and coke and turned into thieves to support their habits, of course I believe that if these drugs were legal they would be more affordable and people would be less likely to turn to crime to support their habits. Cigarettes are quite addictive, alcohol is quite addictive, and I do not see people stealing to support their alcohol and cigarette habits.
You completely failed to respond at all to the comment about unemployment, something I am guessing you will end up filing for at some point in your life if all you do is hang out with meth heads and people going to prison. There are also the healthcare costs to consider. But of course that doesn't matter to someone like you probably as you're probably not paying back into the system anything. In your eyes, we should just let you do your drugs and then pay for your unemployment and healthcare after you've lost all your jobs and destroyed your body I suppose?
Aha now I see the type of person you are. It makes sense to me that you would be one of the liberals who are quite concerned with the lives of all others, simply because you feel some need to 'help' drug users. See I do not think there should be any taxation or social safety nets, so there is no worry about unemployment or health care of drug users being paid for by society. Now I know that socialist liberals are really at odds with drug legalization because they want to steal money from everyone and use it to fund things like health care and unemployment, but if you stop supporting thievery and start supporting total freedom you will see that these things are actually not issues at all. Additionally, yes I have a great many druggie friends, some of them are even pretty bad people unfortunately. A lot of them are not though. A lot of them have been to prison simply because of the fact that they have been arrested with drugs, and indeed after this happens they tend to become more and more a part of the criminal world. That is one of the side effects of drugs being illegal after all, children are not prevented from using drugs but they are forced to associate with criminals, they become part of the criminal world when they go to jail for drug charges, and then eventually they overdose on impure heroin and die. Of course I have to put the blame on them, but really the blame falls just as much on the prohibitionists.
See you really have me entirely misunderstood, but it is nice to see your prejudice against drug users and people who have been incarcerated for drug crimes, it really makes me feel less bad about earlier calling you a hypocrite, and once again I feel the need to ask; why the fuck are you here instead of at rehab?
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Aha now I see the type of person you are. It makes sense to me that you would be one of the liberals who are quite concerned with the lives of all others, simply because you feel some need to 'help' drug users. See I do not think there should be any taxation or social safety nets, so there is no worry about unemployment or health care of drug users being paid for by society. Now I know that socialist liberals are really at odds with drug legalization because they want to steal money from everyone and use it to fund things like health care and unemployment, but if you stop supporting thievery and start supporting total freedom you will see that these things are actually not issues at all. Additionally, yes I have a great many druggie friends, some of them are even pretty bad people unfortunately. A lot of them are not though. A lot of them have been to prison simply because of the fact that they have been arrested with drugs, and indeed after this happens they tend to become more and more a part of the criminal world. That is one of the side effects of drugs being illegal after all, children are not prevented from using drugs but they are forced to associate with criminals, they become part of the criminal world when they go to jail for drug charges, and then eventually they overdose on impure heroin and die. Of course I have to put the blame on them, but really the blame falls just as much on the prohibitionists.
See you really have me entirely misunderstood, but it is nice to see your prejudice against drug users and people who have been incarcerated for drug crimes, it really makes me feel less bad about earlier calling you a hypocrite, and once again I feel the need to ask; why the fuck are you here instead of at rehab?
On the contrary I am not a liberal and I wish all societal safety nets would go away. But THAT is not reality. Currently, I am taxed at over 50% rate cumulatively in the US to support things like prisons, unemployed and underemployed people, and those that don't buy their own healthcare and get sick. If you can fix that then fine people can do whatever they fuck they want because it doesn't affect me. Until then, you are ignoring the facts and living in a fantasy world. And back in the real world, I don't need to see any more people get into these situations where I need to support them because of drugs. We shouldn't be jailing people for drugs. If not for any other reason, for the reason that we spend $60-$80k per prisoner per year so subsidize each one. It is a big money racket that just funnels more money to lobbyists and is one of the most corrupt aspects of our society.
But we also shouldn't be encouraging use by selling all durgs over the counter and acting like they're no big deal. Drugs should be understood and respected by their users. Not treated like alcohol and cigarettes currently are by society. A licensing system would promote this and could also ensure the licensed users are responsible citizens. I am sorry you don't know a single person that abides by laws, but you obviously run in a different crowd than me. I am a C-level executive from a company you all have heard of; and probably 80% of my friends and family members and coworkers have never tried anything beyond weed. Many of them didn't because it was illegal. The others didn't because of the stigma associated with the illegality. Not everyone in the world has the strong will to resist addiction; and the current laws and opinions on drugs do discourage use, whether you admit it or not. This reduces overall the amount of addicts we end up with in our society. It is a simple numbers game.
I think you know why I am not in rehab based on my pattern of drug use. And if not, I don't feel the need to explain to MR High IQ. In fact, I am done with you in general. Have fun picking your fights with everyone else since it seems that you are simply a troll and nothing more. I haven't posted on a community internet forum before SR in the past ten years because of people like you populating them in all other locations. SR for the most part avoids users like you which is why it has been fun to post here, but there are always exceptions to everything I suppose. Have a nice life troll.
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Good thing you were never arrested for drugs or else instead of being a high ranking executive at a major corporation, you would be flipping burgers , or selling drugs as your only way of making an income, and constantly in and out of prison.
And as for my IQ, generally I would not mention it, but it is funny to be insulted for having a poor short term memory when testing indicates that your short term memory is within the top 1% of the world.
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There are many potentially positive aspects to the decriminalization of drugs - specifically the flow of money in better directions and away from organized crime and the ability to focus on proper research and care for negative side effects and people with addictions.
But to just sell this stuff OTC in any old pharmacy is begging for trouble. Especially drugs like H, C, meth, etc. The ones that have have high addiction rates. You would wind up with a lot more little kids doing it well before they should be. You would wind up with a swath of the population who become obsessed with drugs and become apathetic about work, supporting themselves, or contributing anything meaningful to society. And all of these people would probably try to be on unemployment and welfare and blah blah blah. I am not going to pay any higher taxes to support a bunch of meth heads sitting at home tweaking all day
Listen, I like drugs, I support freedom. But there are two sides to every story and many people that have posted in this thread acting like complete unrestricted regulation of drugs is some panacea are not considering the negative impacts, of which there would be many.
The generally excepted meaning for the 'decriminalization' of drugs is very different to the 'legalization' of drugs, in respect to the question of the populations legal access to the harder, addictive drugs.
Decriminalization would not mean people could "just sell this stuff OTC in any old pharmacy" as you put it. Rather, it would be the removal of the criminal aspects of the drug trade, with both the criminal suppliers put out of business and the buyers no-longer prosecuted and labeled as criminals.
How can this be achieved? you may be thinking. Well, this situation has already previously existed, in the UK you used to be able to go to you doctor, tell them you were addicted to opiates or cocaine and then receive a prescription for your drugs (a handful of doctors in the UK still have this ability under rare circumstances!). This only stopped after the USA began it's 'war on drugs' and started to apply pressure on foreign governments to fall into line with their way of thinking (thanks USA).
I believe a situation like this could be achieved again today. When an addict presents themselves to their doctor they would be tested for which drugs are present in their system, and at what levels. This is to determine genuine cases of addiction, and is a process already widely used. It's not infallible, but I will come back to that later. Once a genuine case is determined the process of treatment begins. A prescription is written for the addicts exact drug of abuse (not a substitute), prescribed at a level high enough for total satisfaction of the addiction, with the option for indefinite maintenance being available without the pressure to taper off, and lastly it's important the prescription should be as inexpensive as possible to the addict (this isn't too hard if the drugs are made available at cost price). It's important for all these conditions to be in place to discourage the addict from seeking out alternate methods to satisfy their addiction. Any follow up treatment like counseling should also be available as part of the program. State sponsored drug addiction basically, this may sound like a bad idea but let me reason why it's not.
The three major problems decriminalization is trying to address are;
[1] to bring about an end to the illegal drug industry,
[2] to bring about a reduction in the number of drug addicts and 'problem users', and an overall reduction in the damage drugs inflict on the health and well-being of society at large, and
[3] to bring about the huge reduction in drug related crimes (shoplifting, theft, burglary etc.), and (most importantly to some people here on SR) to cease the criminalization of a part of the community that otherwise causes little problems. There are other factors this policy addresses, but these are the main ones.
How I believe decriminalization will achieve these are as follows;
for [1] Supply and demand. If you can stop the demand for an illegal source of drugs then the criminal supply will cease. The way I believe this is brought about is by price and availability. For hard addictive drugs they are prescribed by a doctor (in the way I describe above), making the users supply constant, cheaper, purer, safer and legitimate. For strictly recreational (non-addictive) drugs, sell them in much the same way as alcohol. Only sold in licensed premises, with age restrictions, health warnings etc. If the price is kept low enough, which I believe should be made easy when big business becomes involved, then the only market left for the criminals to supply is the underage (which I think is too small to sustain the illegal supply, and I'd believe they'd already be 'priced out' anyway).
For [2] Because the addict needs to undergo tests to prove they're indeed addicted (before their addictive drugs are supplied to them in the cheap, legitimate, safe, prescribed way), then the only market left for the criminals to supply is the non-addicted or the prescribed addict wishing to gain access to more drugs. As I don't believe it would be a good idea to fully legalize addictive drugs and sell them in licensed premises, it may be impossible to fully eliminate the illegal supply of these drugs. However, I do believe the demand for what would now be a vastly more expensive and inferior product, would be greatly reduced. With regards to harm reduction for both the addictive and the recreational drugs, moving the supply to legitimate and regulated sources (either prescription or commercial manufacture respectively) can only have a hugely positive outcome.
And finally for [3] A vast majority of low level crime is committed to fund peoples drug addictions. If you could eliminate an addicts need to acquire lots of money to fund their habit, then a massive amount of property crime would be wiped out overnight. This can't be stressed enough, I'm talking levels of crime not seen for decades and a huge amount of police time freed up to tackle 'real' crimes. Also, when you criminalize someone for their choice of which substances they put into their bodies, you begin a process of social exclusion, which at it's best just forms a separate, harmless sub-culture (stoners for example), or at it's worst can totally exclude an individual from becoming a productive part of society, putting them on a course leading to all out destructive, anti-social, criminal behaviour. All of which come at a huge cost to society.
My last point I wish to address hoobydoobydoo quote again, and how he seems to think state sponsored drug addicts would "become apathetic about work, supporting themselves, or contributing anything meaningful to society. And all of these people would probably try to be on unemployment and welfare and blah blah blah".
If I can relate my experience and knowledge of opiate addiction, this is wildly unfair to tar every addict with the same brush and just downright untrue! The widely held belief that "Junkies" cannot be productive members of society is misinformed. The reason that some do become criminals who steal and rob to support their habit with really poor health, is not because the drug itself leads them into that situation, but rather the cost (both in money and health) is so high because the supply is from the illegal drug trade. It's been shown over and over again (from studies, but more from real life) that when someone has a clean, constant, inexpensive and legitimate supply that they function no differently than anyone else in society.
If you take the chronic pain sufferer or cancer patient for example, they will often be prescribed either morphine or diamorphine (heroin), which for all intents and purposes are very similar drugs. The doctor will explain the side effects before hand as possible neusea, constipation, itching and maybe effect your apatite (as some of the main ones), and of course they'll explain how the drug is addictive and will need to be taken at regular set intervals. The doctor will not say "you may feel the need to steal from your mum's handbag or mug an old lady", they will not say "there is a very possible risk you'll overdose or your health will deteriorate so much you'll die anyway", of course not. Because people young and old, who for medical reasons need to take opiates, still lead a normal productive life everyday. I could site many authors, generals or any number of different professionals from the past who lead amazing lives, the whole time they were addicted to opiates but had access to a legitimate supply. There is a good chance that many of you reading this will finish your final days on this planet as a patient who's prescribed opiates for a medical reason. We still haven't found a more effective painkiller.
So try to see through the anti-drug propaganda this 'war on drugs' is feeding us, because the real truth is the mental, physical and social harm is not caused by the drugs, it's caused by the laws used to criminalized the people using them. :)
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@ZenAndTheArt - I agree in principle with the majority of what you just wrote. The only difference between our suggested approaches we lined out in this thread is you believe a doctor is the better person to dish out the prescription versus my suggestion of setting up an industry to provide education and grant licenses to responsible, educated users. I actually didn't really think about the prescription idea before but I think it is also a reasonable solution and is along the same lines as the one I laid out. Your idea does have history of success as you point out and I can add that in places like California this is how marijuana is handled also, further suggesting success. So I like your idea.
You also say you don't want to see drugs sold OTC, except for recreational drugs, which you didn't define so I can't know specifically which drugs you are okay with being OTC and which you aren't.
The OTC is the distinction that I have an issue with, but seems to be the part of my posts which both you and kmf continue to either not read or ignore, focusing instead on my view of what would happen if drugs were OTC and somehow blanket applying this to my view of any decriminalization of drugs.
As I have said in this thread probably five times now - we should not be jailing people for drugs. I am completely against this. The current system is fucked and needs to be fixed. But OTC is not the answer. I believe OTC will lead to a higher percentage of the population trying drugs than any other system and I don't think that encouraging such a trend is necessarily good for society. If you guys disagree with me that more people will try drugs that are legal, that is fine but it is just an opinion I have which I believe is supported by how many people have tried the legal drugs like alcohol and cigarettes versus illegal and prescription drugs.
Responsible people SHOULD be able to obtain and use any drugs they want. But drugs should be respected and understood by the people that use them. And most people don't respect things they can buy at Walgreens OTC. With OTC these aspects are often tossed out by a large majority of users since the drugs are so easy to obtain; and I believe without proper education we are likely to see more addictions as well as more people doing dangerous things and putting themselves in bad situations when they are out of their minds. This is why I am in favor of having SOME method of ensuring people are educated before consumption. Be it a doctor or a teacher or a book or whatever.
I pretty much agree with everything else that you said.
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@Hoobydoobydoo forgive me for maybe missing some of the things you have previously posted. I didn't look back to far through the previous posts before I quoted you, my bad. Because I think in general we agree on most points. As you pointed out education has to be the groundwork that a sensible drugs policy can build upon. We can see that for most of the self-educated people who post on this forum, in general they know what they're taking, the possible consequences and the best practices.
The drugs I would define a recreational are really just any drug that is not habit forming. Although some people can become mentally dependent on any drug, I would say the main addictive drugs are Heroin (or any opiate), Cocaine (in any form), and Amphetamines (my knowledge is limited on these, I'm not sure if all amphetamines are addictive or how addictive each one is). Actually now I think of it I'd have to look more into amphetamines, because from what I understand both meth-amphetamine and 'normal speed' can be addictive, but I don't know if lumping them in with Heroin and Coke and having prescription based treatment would be the best idea. And also, isn't MDxx an amphetamine? I'd say that was definitely more a recreational drug. This is were the policy would need extensive research and fine tuning.
Lastly, about your point that more people may use drugs if the laws were changed. This is quiet a big point to get into, but I believe the research tends to show that isn't really the case, although it may be far from conclusive (look into what they're doing in Portugal and Holland). In the end would it be a bad thing if more people tried recreational drugs? As long as they did it in a responsible way. Personally I don't believe the government should have the right to tell us what we can or can't do with are own bodies, not matter how damaging the health consequences. :)
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While i have no context of the situation, all i can say is never trust any vendor on this site, no matter how good your rapport is with that person.