Silk Road forums
Discussion => Off topic => Topic started by: Harmful Hits on December 30, 2012, 03:53 pm
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Throughout the years I have had the pleasure of doing all kinds of high quality drugs and now that SR is here my choices have only increased. I have fun and I like to party but my drug of choice is weed. At times I snort roxys, coke, or smoke meth but its rarely. Over the years I have watched as people I knew find their drug of choice for the first time sometime and become hooked hard. I have also watched other people smoke crack out of a bong, get high as fuck, and then just sit down and play PlayStation, not even wanting another hit.
So its clear that certain people are less prone to addiction for whatever reason. Does anyone have any ideas why some people seem less susceptible to addiction?
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Genetics, expression of different brain receptor variants, and different baseline levels of certain neurotransmitters and metabolic enzymes.
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Very good question.
I just did a search on the clearnet. Almost every source can agree on the following. They don't understand it yet, but they have found some risk factors.
The widely recognized risk factors include:
Genes:
Genetics play a significant role: having parents with alcoholism, for instance, makes you four times more likely than other children to become alcoholics. More than 60 percent of alcoholics have family histories of alcoholism.
Mental illness:
Many addicted people also suffer from mental health disorders, especially anxiety, depression or mood illnesses.
Early use of drugs:
The earlier a person begins to use drugs the more likely they are to progress to more serious abuse.
Social environment:
People who live, work or go to school in an environment in which the use of alcohol and other drugs is common - such as a workplace in which people see heavy drinking as an important way to bond with coworkers - are more likely to abuse drugs.
Childhood trauma:
Scientists know that abuse or neglect of children, persistent conflict in the family, sexual abuse and other traumatic childhood experiences can shape a child's brain chemistry and subsequent vulnerability to addiction.
(source clearnet: http://www.hbo.com/addiction/understanding_addiction/14_some_people_become_addicted.html)
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I beliee some people lack self control while others dont realize how deep they get into it untill its too late.
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I beliee some people lack self control while others dont realize how deep they get into it untill its too late.
In direct contradiction to the bio-psycho-social model of addiction, where addiction is a disease, which is widely accepted by the medical community at this point. :)
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I found a really interesting article on how we get addicted: (clearnet!) http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1640436-1,00.html
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In direct contradiction to the bio-psycho-social model of addiction, where addiction is a disease, which is widely accepted by the medical community at this point. :)
.. or a crime, which is how the issue is disposed of by legislators and the "justice" system...
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setting boundaries and sticking to them without compromise...
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I'm not much into the genetic predisposition talk, rather, I'd say it depends on
- your current mood (are you generally happy or depressed / why are you doing drugs)
- your social environement (education level and family-friends influence)
- your personal discipline
That's about it, really.
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I'm not much into the genetic predisposition talk
It's pretty well established that alcoholism and drug addiction tends to run in families. Obviously that's not the only basis for addiction, as TreeSpirit nicely summarized, but it is certainly part of it.
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Good thread! I constantly have this argument with myself in my head. As an addict of fifteen years I find it hard to accept that Addiction is a disease, maybe the AA folks just couldn't think of a better word? I do believe genetics play a big role, but also environment and personal discipline or lack thereof.
I have been able to moderate at times with my drug use, but not always. I also think that mental illness and addiction are so closely related because certain drugs can lead to mental illness when abused as I have learned the hard way.
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I'm not much into the genetic predisposition talk
It's pretty well established that alcoholism and drug addiction tends to run in families. Obviously that's not the only basis for addiction, as TreeSpirit nicely summarized, but it is certainly part of it.
I'm not saying genes have absolutey no role, I'm just saying that they are not, imo, all-determining. You couldn't imagine yourself being an alcoholic because you've been raised by alcoholic parents in a working class environement and poor future perspectives ? Would you say it's al about the genes ? You couldn't imagine one of your parent being a drug-addict because he grew in a drug-infested environement ? Would you say it's all about the genes ?
I pretty much consider environement as the dominating factor here. Imagine this case: your genes predispose you to have a 150 IQ score. Do you think you could have a 150 IQ score if your parents held you locked in a closet during all your childhood ? C'mon.
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I'm not saying it's ALL about the genes either, so we are mostly in agreement. :) We may differ as to the relative contribution of various factors, though.
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Indeed.
I'm just annoyed with the gene and neurochemistry talk, such a perfect excuse for one's behaviour. I'm depressed ? My neurochemistry imbalance's fault. I'm an addict ? It's my grandfather's gene fault. No rational person should buy into this.
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Well, your body IS chemistry, not magic.
But more importantly you seem to espouse a simplistic view of genetic influence. It's not deterministic, 1:1, 1 gene leads to exactly 1 outcome. Genes influence traits, including behavior, to varying degrees, and in concert with other factors.
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Making bad choices can lead to addition. It doesn't take a genius to understand that if you keep using a drug without breaks then there is an increased potential for dependence and yet some people seem oblivious to those dangers until it is too late.
Some people are so reckless with their drug use, always putting feeling good right now above everything else. Regardless of the cause it pisses me off.
This. I believe we all get the same urge to redose an addictive drug. The thing that makes a difference is that some people actually think twice before doing it and do not give up to instant gratification.
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Well, your body IS chemistry, not magic.
But more importantly you seem to espouse a simplistic view of genetic influence. It's not deterministic, 1:1, 1 gene leads to exactly 1 outcome. Genes influence traits, including behavior, to varying degrees, and in concert with other factors.
I get that. And we both agree that we disagree about what is the dominating correlate.
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I'm not much into the genetic predisposition talk, rather, I'd say it depends on
- your current mood (are you generally happy or depressed / why are you doing drugs)
- your social environement (education level and family-friends influence)
- your personal discipline
That's about it, really.
I agree with what you are saying. However, as a person trying to get high only a couple times a month without consequence, I think once the brain has carved out the drug-addicts train of thought and decision making it is very difficult to use drugs successfully without suffering from "the obsession". Do you guys who use successfully and not very often have this constant thought of drugs? I'm guessing just by posting on a drug message board that you do suffer from this as well, and somehow manage it.
I once used daily and ruined my life and used people etc, now I am a responsible drug taker that has a solid job and great family. However, there is a nagging obsession that is hard to control. When there's drugs in the house, a lot of my waking life is thinking about them. Quite a bit more than when there isn't. It's easy to stop using on a dime, but the drugs must flushed. Obviously everyone's different, but this is a very real phenomena for me.
The article that was posted here from TIME is actually pretty interesting - at least the part about how there is an interaction between the reward center (dopamine) and GABA (sp?), which according to the article is what basically naturally puts a stop to the reward center in a healthy normal human. The article suggests they are working to find pharmaceuticals to strengthen that interaction, as a poorly functioning system may be why drug addicts have a hard time suppressing the urge to fuel their reward system that has been hardwired for survival. That would be a great day of relief from addicts and problem drinkers around the world!
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I found a gem in an other thread, by ZenAndTheArt.
I think the word 'disease' can be misleading when discussing addictions. My dictionary (which sits next to my keyboard as my spelling is terrible) states; Disease - n. an unhealthy condition caused by infection or diet or by faulty functioning of a bodily process. It also states that; Addicted - adj. 1. doing or using something as a habit or compulsively. 2. devoted to something as a hobby or interest. addiction n. (Hobby? Bit of an understatement).
I believe its misleading because it suggests less of a mental ownership of the addiction process. To me, a disease is a totally involuntarily acquired condition. Whereas an addiction has an element of choice to it. However, by saying I believe there's an element of choice, I'm not ignoring the evidence of genetic predisposition in addiction.
I recently watched a program where some scientists were investigating the role of genetic predisposition in addiction. They found that compulsive and habit forming behaviour (addiction) was present in rodents to the same degree as in human, around 10% if I remember correctly. One of there tests involved a button, when pressed it would deliver as small dose of a pleasurable substance (I can't remember if it was cocaine or some other stimulant that would work on rats). They found that the majority of the rats would press the button a few times, but in general they'd continue with their normal routines of social interactions and feeding or sleeping. Whilst a minority of the rats (around 10%) would continue pressing the button and let it interfere with their daily routine to the detriment of their social interactions, feeding and sleep patterns. They would even keep pressing the button after it stopped producing the pleasurable substance, until it started working again.
Now the important findings about these tests wasn't that a variety of species all displayed a similar percentage for predisposition to addictive behaviour, it was that the predisposition could be showed to be genetic. They found the human patients who all displayed a predisposition to addiction all had similar brain activity. They all had the same specific areas of their brain that functioned differently. And these areas could be showed to relate to addictive behaviour, and would have developed that way at the genetic level.
Finally, on a personal level, I believe that as human beings we are ultimately responsible for our own actions. Because we have higher thought processes and a greater level of understanding. Whilst it is a great disadvantage to be one of the 10% who are predisposed to addictive behaviour, one can not lay the blame entirely at genetics as some level of personal responsibility must come into it. In my humble opinion. :)
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Don't forget that for some people becoming an addict is not as big a deterrent as it is for others. Even if it's only on a subconscious level, some people are just self destructive. I'm not generalizing about all addicts because each one has their own reasons or circumstances, but it does seem possible to draw a parallel between the self-harmer and some people in the early stages of addiction.