Silk Road forums
Discussion => Off topic => Topic started by: fuckingACE on December 29, 2012, 12:26 am
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The strange posts recently have got me thinking that a fair few posters on here are LE. because theres no coordination between different countries I bet that apart from the lurkers theres british police, definitely australian, american etc.. I wonder if they try and entrap each other unknowingly, An american cop trying to get a UK cop to send him a bag of MDMA and then dusting it for prints lol
Ace
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HA Ive wondered the same thing. I imagine they are mostly lurking, but occasionally posting stupid shit to deter people from visiting. I think everyone is LE cause Im a paranoid dude.
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, An american cop trying to get a UK cop to send him a bag of MDMA and then dusting it for prints lol
LOL
Can't really say if cops, trolls or stupid but some posts ring a bell. The last one for me was that guy that told gave the cops a gram he bought from SR and they just let him go, "hey guys just talk to the cops everything will be alright!".
Also first posters saying that they got busted buying from SR or other crazy stories.
I don't think there are cops selling, except maybe for precursors, or pretending to be bulk sellers harvesting addresses and selling bunk/fake product (at one point I thought this was a possibility for Jimmy Buffet).
Who cares though, as long as they stay away from DPR it's fine with me :P
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nah......sometimes you see psychological ops but I am not inclined to think there's that many. But then again they wouldnt be doing their job if I knew :)
complacency kills.
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Too funny. I think though, for a project this big, either Interpol would take it over, or what's more likely as Interpol is busy looking up child porn, they would just collaborate at a transnational level.
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Too funny. I think though, for a project this big, either Interpol would take it over, or what's more likely as Interpol is busy looking up child porn, they would just collaborate at a transnational level.
Anyone who says things like this. :P
Anyone who says "aww, they're not worried about small timers" Or "they can't sell drugs to trap people". Anyone who tries to get us to relax basically. But I am also paranoid and assume you are all cops/informants.
There are a few posters who strike me as LE by the things they say/ask, but I also realize it's probably just coincidence and my over analytical brain. Always best to keep your eyes/mind open and alert.
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TY Mr Fluffles. :) And what you say next has thankfully been picked up by most of us. (Has it occurred to anyone that I might be a cop? And that I keep saying cops are scum to protect my identity more realistically? :o The possibilities are scary. ) 8)
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I had to chuckle a bit having thoughts of each countries LE thinking they had a big fish on the other end... pulling and reeling as hard as they can.
Now back to reality, don't trust anyone EVER... and especially not on the computer. Don't relax and think I have this all figured out now, it's easy... or it's ok to skip procedure A.. I know this guy. This is not a game for kids and the consequences are your life or worse MINE!
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Remember when Dutch LE hacked a bunch of cp hidden services? That's not something the more professional LE like FBI or SOCA in UK would do. I don't think their agents would be trawling around these forums, based on the magnitude of other crimes the deal with, but there are 200 countries in the world and there's no accounting for what some random LEO decides to do. So there might be LE, but not necessarily from the most represented countries. Look out for special deals or weird references to specific countries.
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Remember when Dutch LE hacked a bunch of cp hidden services? That's not something the more professional LE like FBI or SOCA in UK would do. I don't think their agents would be trawling around these forums, based on the magnitude of other crimes the deal with, but there are 200 countries in the world and there's no accounting for what some random LEO decides to do. So there might be LE, but not necessarily from the most represented countries. Look out for special deals or weird references to specific countries.
agreed that was pretty much what i thought. if they could do something they would have already methinks. psychological warfare is their most powerful tool right now and the poster than was talking about the hysteria every time the site goes down was spot on.
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It's simple really! Treat everyone you correspond or interact with here as LE. No exceptions. By doing so, you'll always keep your guard up and won't be lulled into a false sense of security which would be a prime opportunity for LE to strike. Don't take anything for granted, never get complacent, keep yourself abreast of the latest news and developments surrounding topics such as Cryptography and Internet Security, always expect the unexpected and prepare yourself for the worst. 8)
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It's simple really! Treat everyone you correspond or interact with here as LE. No exceptions. By doing so, you'll always keep your guard up and won't be lulled into a false sense of security which would be a prime opportunity for LE to strike. Don't take anything for granted, never get complacent, keep yourself abreast of the latest news and developments surrounding topics such as Cryptography and Internet Security, always expect the unexpected and prepare yourself for the worst. 8)
someone sticky that plz!!!!
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Remember when Dutch LE hacked a bunch of cp hidden services? That's not something the more professional LE like FBI or SOCA in UK would do. I don't think their agents would be trawling around these forums, based on the magnitude of other crimes the deal with, but there are 200 countries in the world and there's no accounting for what some random LEO decides to do. So there might be LE, but not necessarily from the most represented countries. Look out for special deals or weird references to specific countries.
I'm not so sure on that one. I think there definitely would be FBI, or DEA at least, on this site because of the volume of trade. I think it is more likely that there will few LE accounts, and these would be shared. We could make a guess on who those people are, rightly or wrongly, but I daresay posting those thoughts on main unnecessary, so if anyone has any idea about a suspect vendor/buyer, a comparison vote via a PM-string to multiple users would be more prudent. (Is string the term? I forget)
I would guess maybe around 10% users are LE, but honestly IDK.
Wadozo's advice solid, and to remind everyone of that logic, I added my current sig a couple of days ago so it really drives the point home everyone I rear my ugly head on the forums.
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I bet that apart from the lurkers theres british police, definitely australian, american etc.. I wonder if they try and entrap each other unknowingly, An american cop trying to get a UK cop to send him a bag of MDMA
If I had to bet, I'd say there are definitely more than a few uncle Leo's a lurkin. Not whole armies but definitely a few... most likely mediocre police within some National/Federal unit.
Coverage of SR in the MSM results in political pressure and this leads to a task force here or there. Being assigned to one of these task forces is a bum job as, unless a seller really fucks up and provides enough info for a positive ID, there is virtually zero possibility of major arrests and so no glory at the end of the tunnel.
Huge political pressure might someday bring NSA/GCHQ type resources and that could really fuck some shit up here but I don't see that happening any time soon.
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unless a seller really fucks up and provides enough info for a positive ID, there is virtually zero possibility of major arrests and so no glory at the end of the tunnel.
This type of mind set is very narrow minded. Don't be fooled into believing that just because the media hasn't recently reported on the progress of LE's Investigation into the SR, that there aren't Police, the world over, devising strategies on attacking and eventually taking down the Silk Road.
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Recommend reading this Book
"Darkmarket "
http://books.google.co.il/books?id=TTzJfag1RhkC&dq=darkmarket+misha+glenny&hl=iw&sa=X&ei=ekffUMyHJMPh4QSnnoDADw&ved=0CDYQ6AEwAA
about how LE busted the major carding sites at 2000 - 2009 or so, can learn a lot about how to be careful and even that sometimes LE are the ones operating these sites in order to find major players like the FBI operated the site "DarkMarket" to get the major players in the carding scene few years back.
so in general - everyone might be LE with not exceptions, admins, vendors , buyers, well known forum users, new users etc..
so i guess this was the best advice:
It's simple really! Treat everyone you correspond or interact with here as LE. No exceptions. By doing so, you'll always keep your guard up and won't be lulled into a false sense of security which would be a prime opportunity for LE to strike. Don't take anything for granted, never get complacent, keep yourself abreast of the latest news and developments surrounding topics such as Cryptography and Internet Security, always expect the unexpected and prepare yourself for the worst. 8)
and i would add - Don't do a crime if you cant do the time, always calculate the risk and the potential gain if it worth it.
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unless a seller really fucks up and provides enough info for a positive ID, there is virtually zero possibility of major arrests and so no glory at the end of the tunnel.
This type of mind set is very narrow minded. Don't be fooled into believing that just because the media hasn't recently reported on the progress of LE's Investigation into the SR, that there aren't Police, the world over, devising strategies on attacking and eventually taking down the Silk Road.
I agree that there are almost certainly dozens of 'ongoing investigations' pertaining to SR across a number of LE/Agencies around the world.
For the average punter on here (ie. personal use buyers) this is of virtually no consequence. Personal use buyers are generally targets of last resort. Personal use buyers on SR would be difficult to gain a decent conviction from unless (as so often happens) they neglect to lawyer up and get persuaded into making full confessions.
Sellers should observe the same practices as they would if dealing IRL - ie. maintain low-key lifestyle, separate the goods from the money and keep both as far away from the distribution as possible, mix up any pattern activity, err on the side of caution, have contingency plans ready to go if there is a fuck up.
For sellers who only deal through SR or similar channels, it is difficult to imagine LE being able to build up sufficient evidence to gain major convictions unless they somehow penetrate the website. I guess it will probably happen some day.
The hack of the image database (or whatever actually happened) a couple of weeks back was a little disconcerting. I'd be interested to know more about what actually happened there.
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My bet is that LE agencies of major Western countries are working together on a SR investigation. So it's unlikely that they would be tripping over each other.
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For sellers who only deal through SR or similar channels, it is difficult to imagine LE being able to build up sufficient evidence to gain major convictions unless they somehow penetrate the website. I guess it will probably happen some day.
The biggest threat to vendors is the same threat that plagues all real world drug distribution networks. The biggest lie is that LE only works up the chain and isn't interested in anyone down the chain. That's only true at the lowest level, for dealers who sell personal amounts to end clients. But if you're a dealer distributing large quantities and your source gets busted, LE is likely to be interested in you as well. SR vendors need to be aware of and take precautions against these traditional real world threats as well as all the new threats and challenges that come with selling anonymously online.
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i think 10% is a little bit high and so are you but who knows ;D doesnt hurt to be cautious
Hehohum, not at the moment mate. Just chocolate icecream.
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Recommend reading this Book
"Darkmarket "
Cool. Will source a download and give this a read.
Sounds very similar to "Kingpin"...
http://kingpin.cc/
Through the story of this criminal’s remarkable rise, and of law enforcement’s quest to track him down, Kingpin lays bare the workings of a silent crime wave still affecting millions of Americans. In these pages, we watch as a new generation of for-profit hackers cobbles together a criminal network that today stretches from Seattle to St. Petersburg to Shanghai. We are ushered into vast online-fraud supermarkets stocked with credit card numbers, counterfeit checks, hacked bank accounts, dead drops, and fake passports. We learn the workings of the numerous hacks—browser exploits, phishing attacks, Trojan horses, and much more—these fraudsters use to ply their trade, and trace the complex routes by which they turn stolen data into millions of dollars. And, thanks to Poulsen’s remarkable access to both cops and criminals, we step inside the quiet, desperate arms-race law enforcement continues to fight with these scammers today.
I expect you've probably read it. Get epub here https://filetea.me/t1see812
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The hack of the image database (or whatever actually happened) a couple of weeks back was a little disconcerting. I'd be interested to know more about what actually happened there.
[/quote]
Yeah that's what I was thinking about. If some random dude can hack SR why can't LE do it?
Or is it just a lot easier to hack the image database than any other SR database?
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You are all cops! I need to go hide under my mattress now. If I can't see you you don't exist!! Lalalalalalalalalala- I can't hear you!
Yeah, seriously though, just assume everyone is a cop/leo/dea. I have just been so depressed lately that I haven't been paying attention or trying to profile people like I normally do.
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I cant talk about any country other then canada, but I can say this, in canada SR is bleeping on the radar like an incoming fighter jet into our airspace. For sure they are on here, buying&selling ect. like many posters said before me, there are plenty of ongoing investigations going on regarding SR. One big one I would assume to track DPR most probably interpol, and then small ones locally to trap the dealers and buyers.
I assume in canada, there is an RCMP investigation going on, and once they figure out what part of canada any given dealer is they probably dispatch the file to that local RCMP office and then work it harder. We have thought about this and worried about LE for weeks before deciding that our plan was safe and if we follow our plan we should never be found. Fingers crossed!!! But, we never underestimate the law, NEVER!
LE has all the money in the world, they have the time and there is more of them then us. If this was a numbers game which it almost is, the cops would win out every time. I mean power in numbers, right?
Anyways, No matter where you are, if your buying or selling, or even just chatting always keep in mind that you could be talking to cops. As for the idea of one LE trying to entrap another LE, for sure this happens. You gotta think how that conversation would go, each is trying to entrap the other and is most probably bending over backward for each other trying to make a deal! lmao.hahaha :) I'd love to see those chats,
COP1: hey man I see your selling some sick MDMA and your local, that's awesome. I used to buy 10kg a week to supply this club and my guy moved away, now im screwed and looking here. can you help me?
COP2: Hello, sure we can help you, our price is very cheap because we have sooooo much stuff, you said you wanted 10kg, we can do that for 10k. does that sound fair to you?
COP1: Man that price is fucking awesome man, im going to make you rich and your going to make me rich, right on! So let me ask you, is there any way we can do this deal face to face as I dont know how to get bitcoins and its kinda of a big deal to get them.
COP2: Hey man, were not supposed to do this but because your going to be a good client and all, SURE. WHERE would you like to meet?
COP1: How about the dunkin doughnuts located at busted and federal st.
HAHAHAHA
Bottom line is, if you're a vendor, change your shipping city often, and I'm talking 200-300kms range, that way if they are tracking you, they can get a fix on a city and then all of a sudden your packages are being shipped from 300kms away in a different city or state, and once that happens a whole new investigation needs to start there, and the clock starts ticking again! That's the only real way to stay one step ahead.
MM
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In 3 weeks I have been able to find 3 ways on how to identify people through tying an account to actual person, using traditional investigation methods available to most LE agencies, especially at a federal
Please eleborate on this...
I agree with what you're saying.
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Heh. I've been mulling over making a post like this for a while, only I wanted to start a poll asking how infiltrated people think SR is at this point. I'm not sure a percentage is all that important. I'm curious about degree of penetration:
1) lurkers only
2) + forum posters
3) + buyers
4) + vendors
5) + site infrastructure - mods, DPR, etc, top to bottom
with maybe, additional to any of those:
a) non-LE informants
b) broken crypto
The reason I didn't post this is because I didn't know if it was forum etiquette to basically ignore the white elephant, plus I'm not sure how much thinking out loud is healthy on this topic considering there is no way in hell 1), above, is not absolutely minimally occurring. I don't think LE is stupid, but I don't feel like I need to help them along. But I'm curious about this for sure.
It's simple really! Treat everyone you correspond or interact with here as LE. No exceptions. By doing so, you'll always keep your guard up and won't be lulled into a false sense of security which would be a prime opportunity for LE to strike. Don't take anything for granted, never get complacent, keep yourself abreast of the latest news and developments surrounding topics such as Cryptography and Internet Security, always expect the unexpected and prepare yourself for the worst. 8)
I agree with this in principle, but at some point I have *had* to conclude that certain people were not LE - or I would never order from them. Now what I don't do is get pally with people and say "I like so-and-so. They seem like a good sort. So they're not LE." That's just stupid. But I've dug through hundreds upon hundreds of posts working up a mental profile of a poster - either a vendor or someone who has recommended a vendor - and then made the call. You have to. Unless you're just here to window shop.
Had more to say on that subject but will have to resist the urge to get chatty about this stuff.
LE has all the money in the world, they have the time and there is more of them then us. If this was a numbers game which it almost is, the cops would win out every time. I mean power in numbers, right?
This is pretty much 100% wrong end to end. You know that important clients get defence attorneys who out-research and out-motion overworked crowns, right? LE resources, both time and money, are stretched thin, which is why the little fish so often get to go free. It isn't kindness. And there are many, many more of us than there are of them. Problem is, you never know when something happens, priorities shift, a little extra time and money is found and some new wonky attack happens to chew through those little fish. BC was up in arms about MoM years back, because, as I often point out, when it's not just "in those neighbourhoods", parents freak the fuck out. I could definitely imagine a situation where someone says "we're making no real investigative headway, we HAVE to do something, so let's bust everybody we can and sow paranoia till nobody feels safe to operate." So no, there's only so much time and money LE is willing to spend on you, and that amount diminishes rapidly as you go down the chain, but you just never know, so I don't take a lot of comfort from it and I certainly don't get lax as a result.
Use a new user name with every transaction. (LE will need to prove each transaction and each user is you - very hard if they don't get your computer or establish a key logger on it)
I thought I was on the high side of the paranoia spectrum. So, no buyer history, ever? You must have trusting vendors.
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It's simple really! Treat everyone you correspond or interact with here as LE. No exceptions. By doing so, you'll always keep your guard up and won't be lulled into a false sense of security which would be a prime opportunity for LE to strike. Don't take anything for granted, never get complacent, keep yourself abreast of the latest news and developments surrounding topics such as Cryptography and Internet Security, always expect the unexpected and prepare yourself for the worst. 8)
+1
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I have yet to order anything yet, but have spent time over the past few weeks learning about SR, TOR & BTC after hearing about it on the news.
That says it all for me!! If you think that in 3 weeks you have learnt all about Tor, BTC, Silk Road, etc, so much so that you are offering advice to buyers on what to do/not to do when ordering. Honestly, some of what you have posted is ridiculous innuendo and baseless speculation, stemming from untruths.
i am sure they would already be filtering financial and postal systems to identify people
What does that mean? You need to spend some time reading about Bitcoins and how to obtain them anonymously. Filtering postal system to identify people? Sounds like a vague observation at best because there is no substance to what you've posted.
Tor is used all over the world by a variety of organizations (Police, Military, etc) as well as the general public. The Tor system won't "collapse" as you have stated. Yes, over time, hackers and LE will inevitably develop new passive and active attacks, aimed at shutting down sites such as SR, or potentially discover new vulnerabilities and attempt to exploit them. Using a new user name seems silly to me. If you have the knowledge to set up a secure system, learn PGP and understand what is required for you to remain anonymous, you won't need a new user name for each transaction, not to mention the fact that you'll never develop any buyer stats, which could limit your options when placing orders.
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It's simple really! Treat everyone you correspond or interact with here as LE. No exceptions....
This is probably the best advice any SR user could hear. When thinking about this mindset, though, I thought of something. I realize it's unlikely. But if I was to sincerely put myself in this mindset, I can't ignore the thought. I'm a bit baked too, so just roll with it....
What if the person I'm buying from is LE? I would guess that they are a little frustrated that this(SR) is going on right under their nose. What if they resorted to some really extreme tactics?
If a vendor does things correctly, it seems like it would be very hard for LE to catch them. Even if the LE's bought off them multiple times, with enough drop spots, theoretically, a vendor could stay one step ahead. If the vendor sees signs of them catching up, they can lay low for a while. A vendor I read about who decided to call it quits after an entire drop was seized comes to mind(can't remember his name. He seemed to be regarded as a legend.) I'm making the hopeful assumption that all is relatively well. Anyways, the point is that it seems like this, in many cases, is the worst that might happen. Maybe I'm being too optimistic.
On the other hand, it seems like it would be really easy for LE to pose as a vendor and bust buyers. I can't even imagine how many lives would get fucked up if LE created an account/accounts, sold shit at really low prices(because they're selling seized drugs they got for free) and decided to send a message by busting hundreds of buyers in a highly publicized sting, all in an attempt to scare people from using SR. I'd be willing to bet there are enough people who have no choice but to use their home address/very few drop addresses to make it a pretty easy and inexpensive operation to pull off, and I feel like they could get quite a few convictions this way...If they really wanted to.
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mikey2 or kiwivolt2 or any other 2 you may be, you say after 3 weeks kiwivolt2 (you) doesn't pretend to know all about Tor, BTC and SR, yet a few posts back, your giving others pointers on buying from SR without having made a single purchase of your own. I'm glad your sorry that I feel safe. That's nice of you. I don't feel totally safe and would be worried if I did. However, I take every precaution to maintain my anonymity and operate Securely and am aware of the dangers LE represent to me. Good luck with your theory champ. One things for sure, you will be in a situation of having to FE for every transaction you make if you follow your theory. That will leave you open to being a prime target for scammers and selective scammers on SR.
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It's simple really! Treat everyone you correspond or interact with here as LE. No exceptions. By doing so, you'll always keep your guard up and won't be lulled into a false sense of security which would be a prime opportunity for LE to strike. Don't take anything for granted, never get complacent, keep yourself abreast of the latest news and developments surrounding topics such as Cryptography and Internet Security, always expect the unexpected and prepare yourself for the worst. 8)
abreast.. I love that word
Ace