Silk Road forums
Discussion => Shipping => Topic started by: TheYowie on December 19, 2012, 09:48 pm
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It's becoming patently obvious at the moment that far more packages/letters are getting seized than need to be. I went a year without having a single thing seized - including letters from India and the Netherlands - and now I'm looking at two no-shows from a reputable vendor.
After a lot of digging and research, including clearnet research on packaging and vac-sealing, as well as looking at buyers feedback and exchanging PM's with people on the forums and SR itself, one thing is completely clear to me - PACKAGING IS NOT ADEQUATE.
There seems to be an overwhelming attitude that putting a vac-sealed pack of powder in a couple of sheets of A4 paper and sticking it in the mail constitutes 'Stealth'. If you think that, you're in for a rude shock.
This is the thread that started off my search - http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=33755.0 - it's the definitive 'best case scenario' sniffer dog test on here. There's lots of great info in there, but to prevent you having to wade through 6 pages, I'll sum it up for you.
VAC SEALING A BAGGIE OF ANYTHING IS NOT STEATH.
After 15 minutes of vac sealing, a PE vac sealed bag is vapour permeable, and detectable by sniffer dog.
F-i-f-t-e-e-n M-i-n-u-t-e-s.
Now I realise that vapour permeability is not the only important factor, but it's THE MOST IMPORTANT. If a dog singles out a group of packages, the chances of you package being seized is 1000 times higher than it not.
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The overriding problem we're now faced with, is that LE is not sitting still, but sellers are. Sellers have been misinformed as to what constitutes adequate packaging, and buyers are perpetuating 'the myth of stealth'. What is currently being done by the vast majority of vendors might be okay for domestic or intra-EU postage, but for International it's now no longer acceptable.
Vendors - the OS market is lucrative. In various parts of the World, the street value of many substances is 100-400% higher than the domestic market from which the product originates, meaning there is a fantastic opportunity to make good money shipping overseas. Even if you add in a premium for the added effort it would take to take shipping techniques to the next level, you're making more money per transaction than you are selling locally.
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So what is the next level of 'stealth'?
From my research, the best level of vapour permeability (let's just call it MTVR) is 0.000x
For comparison's sake, kitchen variety vac sealed PE is 0.0x
PE vac sealing should ONLY be used to flatten a powder/crystals. You may as well be wrapping it in Saran Wrap.
There needs to be a new 'Best Practice' scenario for Overseas shipping of small qtys of powder. This is what I suggest as a jumping-off point which we can collectively modify as we go.
THE LETTER
1.0_ Item must not be 'feel-able' through the letter
2.0_ Letter itself must be inconspicuous.
3.0_ Periodically, vendors must change the nature of the letter as well as the sending location.
PRODUCT CONTAINMENT
4.0_ Product must be made as flat as possible.
4.1_ Powder in zip-loc bag or similar
4.2_ Vac sealed into PE or PP pouch, to flatten.
NON-PERMEABILITY LAYERS
4.3_ This is up to the vendor, but must consist of AT LEAST ONE non-vac sealed 0.000x MTVR layer. Vendors can innovate over and above this minimum.
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I've posted this thread mainly to begin a dialogue between vendors and buyers so we can collectively lift the game. Revolutions don't happen when everyone sits on their hands or rests on their laurels. There are entities out there whose sole reason for existence is to thwart liberty and freedom and reinforce the current power structure. That's what they do - day in, day out. And they're improving their game.
It's up to us at the forefront of this revolution to continually evolve, improve, and grow, and we can only do this if we have a constant dialogue on ways to improve buying and selling. SR is facing many issues at the moment and there will continue to be challenges, but this is something we can improve ourselves so it's time to step things up.
I'd really love to hear what vendors and buyers have to say. If you're a vendor looking to increase and promote your business though improved shipping, this is the place.
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BUMP ! this is super valuable
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+1 to you OP
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+1 to you OP
Same! a +1 going to you yowie..i like your style...I was shocked after reading about the rate of permeability in the other thread....makes me more nervous than I was before I read that thread about my SuperTrips order that is now on day 16....that shit has to stank by now....oh geez..i hope those dogs are worn out and ready for a holiday break from work like a lot of us SR users ;)
Simply put...vac sealing and stuffing something in an envelope and printing some labels doesn't make it stealth. I have received some things (1 or 2) that made me really laugh and appreciate all the hard work that vendor put into packaging something that really comes down to my own well being...prison sucks....come on vendors...act like you give 2 shits and step it up.
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bump, this might be one of the most important but hardest changes to make in order to ensure the safety and reliability of SR. problem is, in a free market like this there are no "regulations" for vendors. preaching in the forums on setting new standards for vendors is like snail mailing your opinion on drug laws to your local congressman. but as the buyers of SR, the community needs to do their job and speak up as well to make it clear on the severity of the situation before people start paying the price.
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I started using SR like a month ago, and i have received many packages. When i first started i bought from many different vendors, and some of them were like amateurs or i dont know.
For example i got 2x LSD and they were just laying inside the envelope and there was a piece of paper handwritten that it said 2X Lsd. i WAS like WTF LOL.
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bump, this might be one of the most important but hardest changes to make in order to ensure the safety and reliability of SR. problem is, in a free market like this there are no "regulations" for vendors. preaching in the forums on setting new standards for vendors is like snail mailing your opinion on drug laws to your local congressman. but as the buyers of SR, the community needs to do their job and speak up as well to make it clear on the severity of the situation before people start paying the price.
There are some economists who believe regulations aren't necessary in these situations, because the market will sort it out: buyers demand quality control and sellers will make a higher profit providing it. In the coming year we will see if they are right... any economists around? There could be a good PhD thesis in here :p
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Hey, just because an idea is good, doesn't mean it will magically be successful. The inertia of the status quo is high, but in my mind at least there's a ripe opportunity for some smart vendors to step up to the plate.
When you think about it, it's so easy it's laughable. All you have to do is add one more step in an already basic process, add a very good margin for the job of improving your packaging, target countries where the price of fun is high, and you're in the money.
If I was a vendor especially in the US or UK, I'd be reading this thread with the virtual nightbulb going off over my head right now.
The only thing I don't have a handle on is how many really smart vendors there are on the Road at the moment. When I first joined, I thought the whole thing was on such a level of genius it didn't occur to me that the vast majority of vendors could very well be just some dude in his bedroom who only manages to get to the post office when he's not stoned.
???
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Excellent post TheYowie, I must find that drug dog thread again and bump it some more too.
The non permeable layer is the missing piece of the puzzle in most cases with a zero MTVR rating, that and careful preparation in a clean environment at each stage. It is however a lot to ask a vendor shipping 100's or in some cases 1000's of orders a month to do but I for one would be happy to pay an extra premium for this level of service to help ensure my order arrives.
Standard envelope mail is not x-rayed unless singled out, there is simply just too much of it so these precautions would virtually eliminate canine detection.
I really hope vendors take notice of this, they will not simply change without incentive though.
+1
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Soooo....I haven't seen one vendor reply in thread....Limet and Delta are usually pretty active... :o Where are you guys?
Bump so vendors read this...Maybe if one of you vendors read this could you repost the topic in the vendors thread?
I would also be willing to pay an extra charge for added stealth for OS orders. I remember Reich had different shipping options that costs more based on level of stealth...I was amazed when I got packages from him but they still weren't smell proof just very cleverly packed.
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I use mylar to contain the pungent odor of my cannabis. This is not the only layer of protection, but it is the one that counts. You aren't going to see or smell the cannabis without a knife or scissors, no matter how badly the outermost packaging layer is damaged.
I haven't lost a package yet.
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*bumpitty bumpbump*
Yep, it's a bit annoying the lack of vendors contributing here. As well as the 300 views vs 10 replies. ???
I would've thought improving your business, and decreasing the amount of interceptions would be top priority (I mean, aside from not getting busted :) ). Quite telling really. I read that as vendors not really giving a shit.
Let's give it time though. :)
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A major problem is the feedback system. Buyers feel pressured into having to give 5/5's even though the transaction hasn't been that smooth. If they don't give a perfect score then the vendor threatens them by saying they won't sell to them anymore.
You can tell who new buyers are:
1. Usually 1g orders
2. Give 5/5 and think stealth shipping is 3 pieces of paper concealing two layers of vac packing.
Until more people complain about the need to lift stealth standards then nothing will change. We need a base standard.
If there was a way to establish who we're the best stealth vendors (without giving away valuable info) we could establish a new criteria within the vendors page. E.g. X vendor stealth shipping = 99th percentile.
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+1 Great thread.
Every few months we discover that regular vacuum sealing is even worse than we previously thought, and every few months we find out a more effective method of packaging.. and yet nothing ever gets changed.
I've had enough of vendors advertising *SUPER STEALTH GUARANTEED DELIVERY* and getting the same old packaging.
Agreed. Vendors are being lazy and new buyers are perpetuating the vendors myth that they have super duper stealth.
I laugh when I read something like this "5/5 zomg! Arrived sooooo fast, packaging A++. Best stealth on SR!!!"
Fuck you guy - I've bought from them and know your gear is hidden between two sheets of 250gsm A4 paper.
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hi, im new here. ive heard that it has to got thru at least two handlers. blow has a very strong smell. so. the person handleing the bags can not touch the dope. at all. once you get done the mesurments you have to wash your hands very good, like with industrial soap. hell even was all your tools. the secret ive heard is not to get any molicules on the bag it self. you could also put in a listerment strip in there to hide the smell too. thats the stuff to freshen up your breath. see i live very isolated from all of you. and its a trick to get it here.
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hi, im new here. ive heard that it has to got thru at least two handlers. blow has a very strong smell. so. the person handleing the bags can not touch the dope. at all. once you get done the mesurments you have to wash your hands very good, like with industrial soap. hell even was all your tools. the secret ive heard is not to get any molicules on the bag it self. you could also put in a listerment strip in there to hide the smell too. thats the stuff to freshen up your breath. see i live very isolated from all of you. and its a trick to get it here.
Oh no!!! Now everybody knows THE SECRET! What have you done??!?
Haha cheeky sod. English isn't this guys first language so probs won't understand your sarcasm.
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I think we need a stealth scale.
1 = could smell something before I opened it, address was hand written
2 = content was sitting in the package, wasn't sealed, included a note saying what it was, dosage and to say hi to your parents
3 = printed address details, contents vacuum sealed, return to sender address
4 = didn't remember ordering painkillers online, popped a couple due to bender the night before, 45 mins later "these ain't painkillers..."
5 = "when the fuck did I order this? Buttons? Seriously? Ohhh" 45mins later. Rolling.
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Worst I ever had was an 5G MDMA shipment packaged in a ziplock baggie placed between printer paper. Was from an legendary vendor when he was still starting out :)
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I used to get realllllyyyy amazing stealth from SKYY. I wish I could see some of that again, shit if I was big enough that's the only route I'd go.
Do you guys know of a vendor albionessentials or something close to this name? I heard their stealth was just as good as SkYYs old stuff.. but i cant find them, cant remember the exact name-
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hi, im new here. ive heard that it has to got thru at least two handlers. blow has a very strong smell. so. the person handleing the bags can not touch the dope. at all. once you get done the mesurments you have to wash your hands very good, like with industrial soap. hell even was all your tools. the secret ive heard is not to get any molicules on the bag it self. you could also put in a listerment strip in there to hide the smell too. thats the stuff to freshen up your breath. see i live very isolated from all of you. and its a trick to get it here.
Oh no!!! Now everybody knows THE SECRET! What have you done??!?
listerment strip, brilliant ;)
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Has anyone got any decent info on the x-raying part of it? That's the one area I know nothing about... samesame, you said envelopes are only x-rayed if they look suspicious; have you a source for this information? Don't they have some big fuck off xrays these days that they can shove shit through? Furthermore, what are people sending internationally so that envelopes are still very popular? What with the advent of the internet I would've thought sending docs through mail would become quite rare.
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Worst I ever had was and 5G MDMA shipment packaged in a ziplock baggie placed between printer paper. Was from an legendary vendor when he was still starting out :)
So many packages are not stealth at all...I've had one coke order where the coke wasn't vacuumed, address handwritten and the c simply thrown in the middle of a bubble envelope. Same goes for a shrroms order opened by customs. Vendors like these deserve jail time.
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Worst I ever had was and 5G MDMA shipment packaged in a ziplock baggie placed between printer paper. Was from an legendary vendor when he was still starting out :)
So many packages are not stealth at all...I've had one coke order where the coke wasn't vacuumed, address handwritten and the c simply thrown in the middle of a bubble envelope. Same goes for a shrroms order opened by customs. Vendors like these deserve jail time.
LOL, yeah, I had one sample pill sent in a cheap, reused bubble mailer with the address scribbled on IN PENCIL. The return address was a business. What business do you know of that sends out packages in reused bubble mailers? The seal was barely sticky and I am surprised the contents didn't fall out. Inside there was 1/3 of a ripped envelope with one lortab wrapped in the remains of a shredded kleenex.
Holy shit, that was some bad stealth. My 2 year old nephew could do a better job.
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I been thinking about this for a while. My theory..
1) Vac pack product
2) place in a larger bag and pour in activated carbon then seal again. (Found in aquarium section of stores)
You could also do another layer of carbon after the first.
Its cheap too depending on how much is needed.
anything that gets out of the bag is absorbed by carbon.
Vendors can then give a shipping option. free = regular and Premium = carbon
If you want stealth, pay for it.
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Yeah, i had some terrible packaging, recently.
One was an envelope with 2 pieces of paper, one with an address and one with a name, sellotaped to it. Thing was the sellotape was thinner than the paper!! The envelope was only sealed at the triangular point too!
Another was a gram of charlie in an envelope, in the corner of a a tied kitchen bag. And a gram of something else packaged the same way in the same envelope. Thing about this was I paid over $20 for special next day delivery, for TWO packages, that i never got the next day ::) I did pm the respected vendor, and they apologized and promised a refund on delivery when they had coin and explained their busyness. Still nothing as yet tho :-\
This was domestic, if it had been international I would have been done :-X
At the other end of the scale, although I'm not really complaining, I've had packages That were super stealth, perhaps more than needed for domestic which all costs money. But better safe than sorry and out of pocket, i suppose :D
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See, now we're starting to see the truth come out.
:-[
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Great thread! Here's an idea I've been thinking about for a while:
Rather than a simple 1-5 feedback scale add two more simple options as well:
International order? Yes/No
Did your order arrive? Yes/No
Then the entire transaction can be rated as usual but we will know which vendors are actually consistently getting stuff through and which ones are just talking/refunding customers into giving 5/5s.
On the vendor page the shipping success rate for domestic and international would be displayed. It would be the buyers choice to go with someone with a lower success rate but high feedback due to being generous with refunds etc, or a vendor offering lower refunds/higher shipping costs but actually getting the product though.
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Great thread! Here's an idea I've been thinking about for a while:
Rather than a simple 1-5 feedback scale add two more simple options as well:
International order? Yes/No
Did your order arrive? Yes/No
Then the entire transaction can be rated as usual but we will know which vendors are actually consistently getting stuff through and which ones are just talking/refunding customers into giving 5/5s.
On the vendor page the shipping success rate for domestic and international would be displayed. It would be the buyers choice to go with someone with a lower success rate but high feedback due to being generous with refunds etc, or a vendor offering lower refunds/higher shipping costs but actually getting the product though.
That's actually a pretty simple solution.
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Let's sit and wait until one of our lovely vendors manages to ship to North Korea, then we shall take notes.
We could even have a stealth competition, ha!
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This thread made me reconsider my shipping technique, thanks for the reality check. A stealth competition would be a lot of fun indeed
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I think vendors should have stealth shipping like SKYY had back in the day.
If anyone knows what im talking about im sure they would agree.
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Fuck you guy - I've bought from them and know your gear is hidden between two sheets of 250gsm A4 paper.
LOOOOOOL.
+1 so true.
such a funny post... lolol.
Merry Christmas!
/thumbs
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Fuck you guy - I've bought from them and know your gear is hidden between two sheets of 250gsm A4 paper.
LOOOOOOL.
+1 so true.
such a funny post... lolol.
Merry Christmas!
/thumbs
Haha it's sad but true aye!
I wonder if anyone has thrown shit out not realising its their package...
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Fuck you guy - I've bought from them and know your gear is hidden between two sheets of 250gsm A4 paper.
LOOOOOOL.
+1 so true.
such a funny post... lolol.
Merry Christmas!
/thumbs
Haha it's sad but true aye!
I wonder if anyone has thrown shit out not realising its their package...
Yip, at least 2 of my customers have, they retrieved them after i explained my stealth :)
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I am a new seller on Silkroad. Goods wrapped in cellophane and I vacuum. Cellophane disposal to help smells, like black spots. But the problem I see in nakupujíích. SR has rules that are to apply labels. So I used the labels. Then came the bad that I use labels. So I wrote the addresses manually and after some time the problem by not using labels. Actually I do not know how to please everyone. I worry about that every shopper has an individual approach what a good package. It would be appropriate to every shopper acquainted with general rules and did not make up shit.
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I use... and sell 2.2 mil mylar bags, great for beating xray and smell detection! These work great, and as confident as I am that this could pass customs, I stay inside the USA for all orders! Mylar is the way to go!
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Great thread! Here's an idea I've been thinking about for a while:
Rather than a simple 1-5 feedback scale add two more simple options as well:
International order? Yes/No
Did your order arrive? Yes/No
Then the entire transaction can be rated as usual but we will know which vendors are actually consistently getting stuff through and which ones are just talking/refunding customers into giving 5/5s.
On the vendor page the shipping success rate for domestic and international would be displayed. It would be the buyers choice to go with someone with a lower success rate but high feedback due to being generous with refunds etc, or a vendor offering lower refunds/higher shipping costs but actually getting the product though.
That's actually a pretty simple solution.
I've posted it in feature requests (http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=95908.0), I really can't see any major downsides at the moment. Can anyone else?
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Great thread! Here's an idea I've been thinking about for a while:
Rather than a simple 1-5 feedback scale add two more simple options as well:
International order? Yes/No
Did your order arrive? Yes/No
Then the entire transaction can be rated as usual but we will know which vendors are actually consistently getting stuff through and which ones are just talking/refunding customers into giving 5/5s.
On the vendor page the shipping success rate for domestic and international would be displayed. It would be the buyers choice to go with someone with a lower success rate but high feedback due to being generous with refunds etc, or a vendor offering lower refunds/higher shipping costs but actually getting the product though.
That's actually a pretty simple solution.
I've posted it in feature requests (http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=95908.0), I really can't see any major downsides at the moment. Can anyone else?
I think along with that the overall vendor's feedback should maybe have a separate percentage reflecting his international transactions as well? Otherwise it's a bit hard to just rely on digging through recent feedbacks to see whether his mail has been getting through. I mean he might ship a lot at once receiving a pretty good amount of feedback in a the past few weeks and start out selectively scamming? If that make sense.. ::) just a theory though
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You could split the overall feedback into domestic and international as well, but I don't think it would be needed if you have separate shipping success rates. Both good ideas either way.
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Didn't have time to read the entire thread yet, but I absolutely agree there is a major disconnect between the realities on the ground and the habits that sellers have regarding shippping. This includes shipping methods as well as the extremely bad habit of asking for a signature method.
I have had major problems with this. After being subjected to an attempted controlled delivery for a tiny personal amount, partly because some asshole refused to get their shit worked out well enough and figure out a way to send it without requiring a signature, I will never buy anything illegal that requires a signature again.
What really pisses me off though is that I *KNEW* that signatures are a bad idea well before. I had searched and combed through a ton of sellers to find someone who was both up to speed on this and also had what I wanted. I tossed many sellers in the trash bin, recognizing that they clearly had a bad attitude towards buyer safety, figuring it's "your problem".
In the end I had no other option but to try someone who looked reasonably good on other counts, and figure that maybe since everyone used this method I was just being a bit paranoid, and it would be ok. Wrong!
There are other major problems I have identified on SR, in particular obvious vulnerabilities with the reputation system, total lack of enforcement against circumventing the escrow system etc. It could be good, but here we are going down the rabbit hole of craptastitude again. A poor reputation system that as far as we know may be being extensively abused, is a real problem.
Fixing shipping on top of a broken base like this is going to be a lot harder. People ultimately just need to have more pride in what we are doing here, and that includes the dread pirate roberts.
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Oh and I had repeatedly contacted sellers that said they only used signature only meeethods and asked if they could send it without a signature. It is extremely time consuming and probably not an option for most people, and in the end was not sucessful anyway as most sellers can't be bothered to use a different method for one shipment. It is their habits and business model that must change. In a way that makes sense, because you don't want to go trying things you haven't thought out and researched some. However getting stuck with and insisting on continuing with *bad* habits that you never thought out or researched to begin with is obviously idiotic.
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I use... and sell 2.2 mil mylar bags, great for beating xray and smell detection! These work great, and as confident as I am that this could pass customs, I stay inside the USA for all orders! Mylar is the way to go!
Mylar does not beat an x-ray, not even my foil can do that :)
I've seen vendors claiming their pouches are x-ray proof on BMR and SR recently, I would be over the moon if it were true, my listings would have it plastered everywhere :)
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TheYowie thank you for making this thread. It's like the elephant in the room sometimes.
I remember the first order I ever placed was with a vendor with a lot of feedback saying "best stealth on SR". I don't know what I was expecting, some hi-tech stealth out of a CIA lab maybe, but it certainly wasn't a vacuum sealed bag between 3 sheets of A4 paper.
I can't count the number of times I've seen idiots excitedly exclaiming "BEST STEALTH", in relation to orders such as these. While it is true that the product cannot be seen with just a cursory look inside the envelope, if you're at the stage where they're opening your envelope, you've already lost. Real stealth means that the letter must make it through security measures, including sniffer dogs, undetected. It does not mean that if a postal worker happened to open the letter (and why would they if it isn't otherwise flagged?) they wouldn't immediately see anything inside. If your letter is flagged, you can be sure that whoever opens it isn't just going to give it a quick glance inside and close it back up. They are not idiots.
If you want stealth, pay for it.
While I wouldn't complain if I had to pay a bit extra for REAL stealth, in reality it should be a given - the rule rather than the exception. So it would be more fair to us buyers if we paid LESS for normal shipping methods, rather than extra for stealth shipping. This is no place for amateur vendors - once the letter is in the postal system, all of the risk is transferred to the buyer, and hence we as buyers should demand stealth as part of the transaction. Some vendors have a really bad attitude towards safety, and I just don't accept that when it means that my personal freedom is at risk.
I've even had vendors (eg FrankMatthews when they were starting up) refuse to take the time to read my PM explaining how to use PGP because "I'm too busy and don't have enough time to learn this shit" (paraphrased). What the fuck, man? Needless to say, I didn't buy.
There are other major problems I have identified on SR, in particular obvious vulnerabilities with the reputation system, total lack of enforcement against circumventing the escrow system etc. It could be good, but here we are going down the rabbit hole of craptastitude again. A poor reputation system that as far as we know may be being extensively abused, is a real problem.
Fixing shipping on top of a broken base like this is going to be a lot harder. People ultimately just need to have more pride in what we are doing here, and that includes the dread pirate roberts.
Seems I'm not the only one who thinks like this, then. Totally agree.
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Last week I got a gram of dope that was alone in a bubble wrap bag, in a baggie (not vacuum sealed). Fail.
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Fuck you guy - I've bought from them and know your gear is hidden between two sheets of 250gsm A4 paper.
LOOOOOOL.
+1 so true.
such a funny post... lolol.
Merry Christmas!
/thumbs
Haha it's sad but true aye!
I wonder if anyone has thrown shit out not realising its their package...
Yip, at least 2 of my customers have, they retrieved them after i explained my stealth :)
;D gonna check out your listings now cause of that.
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Great thread! Here's an idea I've been thinking about for a while:
Rather than a simple 1-5 feedback scale add two more simple options as well:
International order? Yes/No
Did your order arrive? Yes/No
Then the entire transaction can be rated as usual but we will know which vendors are actually consistently getting stuff through and which ones are just talking/refunding customers into giving 5/5s.
On the vendor page the shipping success rate for domestic and international would be displayed. It would be the buyers choice to go with someone with a lower success rate but high feedback due to being generous with refunds etc, or a vendor offering lower refunds/higher shipping costs but actually getting the product though.
That's actually a pretty simple solution.
I've posted it in feature requests (http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=95908.0), I really can't see any major downsides at the moment. Can anyone else?
I think along with that the overall vendor's feedback should maybe have a separate percentage reflecting his international transactions as well? Otherwise it's a bit hard to just rely on digging through recent feedbacks to see whether his mail has been getting through. I mean he might ship a lot at once receiving a pretty good amount of feedback in a the past few weeks and start out selectively scamming? If that make sense.. ::) just a theory though
Yeah I agree. SR is an international website and its feedback should reflect the fact that packages cross int borders.
As members we need to be holding everyone accountable in order to make this place better and ultimately safer.
Customs and LE aren't sitting still and irrespective of how much they get mocked on here they are finding new ways to identify your package and bust you - this is their job.
So with that in mind as a buyer you must inform a vendor if you think their package isn't up to scratch, help them do things better rather than them get complacent. If they don't do anything about it then guess what? They don't care enough about YOUR safety, so move on and give your money to someone else. If you think the issue with their packaging is serious I think we should be naming them. The best way to get their attention is by hitting their bank balance. But that is a last resort.
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Thanks people for supporting this thread! :) and thanks to Sixes for putting it up in the Feature requests section.
For me, a transaction on SR is MOSTLY about the shipping. It's a pretty short conversation to find out what the product is like generally, and a smooth transaction requires basically no Customer Service interaction, so what's left? Shipping!
To make matters worse, there's an overriding culture of just saying that stealth was 'awesome' just because the damn thing arrived, as well as a culture of just not talking about shipping methods as if we were doing something amazing that LE was not aware of!
I think the best way to make some improvements in the realm of shipping methods and quality, is firstly to keep talking about it, and also put pressure on the SR mods to add in a shipping rating system.
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I agree too that shipping is the most important part, after all it is the means of which how the product is getting from the vendor to you safely, the other stuff are fairly robotic like pgp, acquiring bitcoins and so forth. If there's a vendor that can revise their methods and get a 90% + international success rate, they would no doubt be making a killing for sure.
TheYowie, let's hope that your suggestion in feature request will get noticed soon!
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Didn't even know my packaging was "stealthy" until I started getting feedback. I guess people have differing standards is all.
::)
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Best packaging i got was from pharmaville who i am sure is not on here no more. Damn it took a good 10 mins to find my shit..and even then i was missing one package and emailed them which then they told where to look..i had to go through my rubbish again!
Though the first time i ever bought from sr i bought weed and it arrived in a zip locked back inside an express post package. It was a joke and shitty introduction to sr.
Best stealth i have seen was outside of SR and thats when i buy seeds from seedbanks. They give you an option of wallet, mug, t-shirt or some stationary as your stealth. The tee's are the best packaged.
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Best packaging i got was from pharmaville who i am sure is not on here no more. Damn it took a good 10 mins to find my shit..and even then i was missing one package and emailed them which then they told where to look..i had to go through my rubbish again!
Though the first time i ever bought from sr i bought weed and it arrived in a zip locked back inside an express post package. It was a joke and shitty introduction to sr.
Best stealth i have seen was outside of SR and thats when i buy seeds from seedbanks. They give you an option of wallet, mug, t-shirt or some stationary as your stealth. The tee's are the best packaged.
Sounds like the Attitude. I'm fond of their crush proof tins.
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watching this
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Interesting looking thread - but no time to read right now... just bumping it to my list....
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This should be stickied. In fact, i believe reading this thread should be a prerequisite to recieving a vendors account. If i spend more than 300 bucks on something, I expect more than a vacuum sealed baggie.
Just my two cents.
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This should be stickied. In fact, i believe reading this thread should be a prerequisite to recieving a vendors account. If i spend more than 300 bucks on something, I expect more than a vacuum sealed baggie.
Just my two cents.
+1 kinks
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Adding a reply so I can keep up with new posts to this thread.
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So what is considered stealth then? What should the minimun standard be?
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I consider stealth to mean that the package can be opened without looking suspicious. Anything less may be discrete, but it isn't stealth.
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My first package on SR was a baggie inbetween two bits of pages from an old book, it was terrible, there should be a seperate rating for steath for sure the seller had 100% positive feedback too!
Second i got from another vendor was concealed quite nicely i knew what it was but had to look for it
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Yes, vac sealing is worthless but people still ask for it and think its the bomb. Even after this thread a lot of people will think vac sealing a plastic bag makes it immune against drug dogs. It doesn't
Yes, mylar is better than plain plastic. Why is that? Because it has a super thin layer of aluminum which stops odor. Don't want to pay for mylar? Use ordinary or heavy duty aluminum foil from the grocery store. Put your goods in a plastic bag, flatten them out, then wrap in foil and fold your creases. Then, take aluminum tape and seal it up. You can even use the tape by itself and just simply wrap around and around the bag or do one side, flip it and the other side being careful to overlap.
How much you want to bet someone will post after this saying "vac seal is the ultimate man!" it isn't.
BTW, the foil tape can be gotten at home depot. Its used for roofing and other things.
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Just my 2 cents here. I could care less what the envelope looks like on the inside. Yes I expect the product to be somewhat odor proof and the product protected. What is more important is a flat, simple. inconspicuous looking envelope. Printed address and return address, label or otherwise. Nothing flashy. I once got an envelope with some large multicolored return address printed in huge bubble letters. Sure it was printed on but the only thing it is going to do is catch someone's eye. I want me package to look just like the 4 dozen pieces of junk mail delivered to my drop box every day for the last 3 weeks.
If your envelope is singled out for either appearance or odor all the pretty stationary in the world is not going to hide it from the inspector.
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Just my 2 cents here. I could care less what the envelope looks like on the inside. Yes I expect the product to be somewhat odor proof and the product protected. What is more important is a flat, simple. inconspicuous looking envelope. Printed address and return address, label or otherwise. Nothing flashy. I once got an envelope with some large multicolored return address printed in huge bubble letters. Sure it was printed on but the only thing it is going to do is catch someone's eye. I want me package to look just like the 4 dozen pieces of junk mail delivered to my drop box every day for the last 3 weeks.
If your envelope is singled out for either appearance or odor all the pretty stationary in the world is not going to hide it from the inspector.
I couldn't agree more.
If we are talking std business envelopes, then most countries would use electronic sorting to some degree. Whilst I am all for stealth packaging and as little smell as possible, I am far more interested in how 'regular' and flat the letter looks. If customs single out your envelope for inspection chances are they are going to find what's inside. The single best non-fancy stealth I ever had was an envelope from the NL with 3 or 4 panels of vac seal and perfectly crushed MDMA to the exact same sizing of the envelope. This added up to one amazingly thin and flat envelope. You couldn't tell there was anything inside apart from a letter.
(Don't hassle me about posting this method either, it is dead obvious, and as said above, customs hopefully won't even get to find about this method unless they focus on all 6 gazillion business letters coming in to every country every day.)
It's important to separate good marketing/gimmicky stealth that only makes us feel better and have a giggle when we open it.
This really only applies to standard business envelopes though, For bigger orders the stealth has to be spot on for obvious reasons.
After 18 months of ordering, I am still convinced that customs only account for a small or equal percentage of packages that don't show. I still think lost or wrongly delivered mail, theft, vendor forgetting/scamming/making mistakes and buyers trying to get free shit would account for most of the problems on here. I am in Australia and have only had a few orders not arrive in 18 months. Two of these were confirmed not sent, and the other one was hash. Still never lost an order from NL as the Dutch vendors I have used all keep the envelopes super flat, no pillow in the centre of the envelope.
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Just my 2 cents here. I could care less what the envelope looks like on the inside. Yes I expect the product to be somewhat odor proof and the product protected. What is more important is a flat, simple. inconspicuous looking envelope. Printed address and return address, label or otherwise. Nothing flashy. I once got an envelope with some large multicolored return address printed in huge bubble letters. Sure it was printed on but the only thing it is going to do is catch someone's eye. I want me package to look just like the 4 dozen pieces of junk mail delivered to my drop box every day for the last 3 weeks.
If your envelope is singled out for either appearance or odor all the pretty stationary in the world is not going to hide it from the inspector.
I couldn't agree more.
If we are talking std business envelopes, then most countries would use electronic sorting to some degree. Whilst I am all for stealth packaging and as little smell as possible, I am far more interested in how 'regular' and flat the letter looks. If customs single out your envelope for inspection chances are they are going to find what's inside. The single best non-fancy stealth I ever had was an envelope from the NL with 3 or 4 panels of vac seal and perfectly crushed MDMA to the exact same sizing of the envelope. This added up to one amazingly thin and flat envelope. You couldn't tell there was anything inside apart from a letter.
(Don't hassle me about posting this method either, it is dead obvious, and as said above, customs hopefully won't even get to find about this method unless they focus on all 6 gazillion business letters coming in to every country every day.)
It's important to separate good marketing/gimmicky stealth that only makes us feel better and have a giggle when we open it.
This really only applies to standard business envelopes though, For bigger orders the stealth has to be spot on for obvious reasons.
After 18 months of ordering, I am still convinced that customs only account for a small or equal percentage of packages that don't show. I still think lost or wrongly delivered mail, theft, vendor forgetting/scamming/making mistakes and buyers trying to get free shit would account for most of the problems on here. I am in Australia and have only had a few orders not arrive in 18 months. Two of these were confirmed not sent, and the other one was hash. Still never lost an order from NL as the Dutch vendors I have used all keep the envelopes super flat, no pillow in the centre of the envelope.
Fucking amen to all that ^
Honestly its a envelope what more can you do inside a tiny little envelope ?? you cant create a Narnia portal inside it and send the drugs through to return once the letter is delivered ..
As flat as possible is the key , i even think a baggy can be abit suss .. everything i have ever gotten i can feel the top strip of the bag that makes it seal through the envelope .
Make it a regular letter just like the millions of others that get sent every day and conceal the smell as best as possible .. thats it.
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Just my 2 cents here. I could care less what the envelope looks like on the inside. Yes I expect the product to be somewhat odor proof and the product protected. What is more important is a flat, simple. inconspicuous looking envelope. Printed address and return address, label or otherwise. Nothing flashy. I once got an envelope with some large multicolored return address printed in huge bubble letters. Sure it was printed on but the only thing it is going to do is catch someone's eye. I want me package to look just like the 4 dozen pieces of junk mail delivered to my drop box every day for the last 3 weeks.
If your envelope is singled out for either appearance or odor all the pretty stationary in the world is not going to hide it from the inspector.
I couldn't agree more.
If we are talking std business envelopes, then most countries would use electronic sorting to some degree. Whilst I am all for stealth packaging and as little smell as possible, I am far more interested in how 'regular' and flat the letter looks. If customs single out your envelope for inspection chances are they are going to find what's inside. The single best non-fancy stealth I ever had was an envelope from the NL with 3 or 4 panels of vac seal and perfectly crushed MDMA to the exact same sizing of the envelope. This added up to one amazingly thin and flat envelope. You couldn't tell there was anything inside apart from a letter.
(Don't hassle me about posting this method either, it is dead obvious, and as said above, customs hopefully won't even get to find about this method unless they focus on all 6 gazillion business letters coming in to every country every day.)
It's important to separate good marketing/gimmicky stealth that only makes us feel better and have a giggle when we open it.
This really only applies to standard business envelopes though, For bigger orders the stealth has to be spot on for obvious reasons.
After 18 months of ordering, I am still convinced that customs only account for a small or equal percentage of packages that don't show. I still think lost or wrongly delivered mail, theft, vendor forgetting/scamming/making mistakes and buyers trying to get free shit would account for most of the problems on here. I am in Australia and have only had a few orders not arrive in 18 months. Two of these were confirmed not sent, and the other one was hash. Still never lost an order from NL as the Dutch vendors I have used all keep the envelopes super flat, no pillow in the centre of the envelope.
Fucking amen to all that ^
Honestly its a envelope what more can you do inside a tiny little envelope ?? you cant create a Narnia portal inside it and send the drugs through to return once the letter is delivered ..
As flat as possible is the key , i even think a baggy can be abit suss .. everything i have ever gotten i can feel the top strip of the bag that makes it seal through the envelope .
Make it a regular letter just like the millions of others that get sent every day and conceal the smell as best as possible .. thats it.
HAHAHA! A Narnia Portal! +1, I love those books.
LMAO @ Narnia Portal.
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Yes ^^^.
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I have never had a package go undelivered, even if it was vac packed and placed between 2 sheets of paper in the envelope. Sometimes it is enough, and you don't need to do more than blend in.
However, of course there are deliveries when 2 pieces of paper do not provide enough security. A small parcel that does not smell and if if opened / torn then the actual contents are still hidden..... This method is useful, for larger orders, to difficult to reach countries like Aus, and for the buyer who just prefers that extra security.
We will have products back in stock in the next couple of days, so please check it out and order our stealth packet as your delivery method.
As there is no feedback, if you do not remember me from SR in 2011, then I can send you some store credit after the order, to say thanks.
Happy New Year SR
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To touch on the shipping method and feedback mechanism: Made my first order and it arrived with signature required :(. I was under this wrong impression that an established vendor, who will remain nameless, would have waived signature requirement for obvious reasons. Not a great first experience but I rated it a 5 with great feedback so I don't get blacklisted. I'm such a noob.
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I think we need a stealth scale.
1 = could smell something before I opened it, address was hand written
2 = content was sitting in the package, wasn't sealed, included a note saying what it was, dosage and to say hi to your parents
3 = printed address details, contents vacuum sealed, return to sender address
4 = didn't remember ordering painkillers online, popped a couple due to bender the night before, 45 mins later "these ain't painkillers..."
5 = "when the fuck did I order this? Buttons? Seriously? Ohhh" 45mins later. Rolling.
I think this is a great idea, there is no reason why buyers can't start putting in their fb stealth 2/5, transaction 5/5 or whatever
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To touch on the shipping method and feedback mechanism: Made my first order and it arrived with signature required :(. I was under this wrong impression that an established vendor, who will remain nameless, would have waived signature requirement for obvious reasons. Not a great first experience but I rated it a 5 with great feedback so I don't get blacklisted. I'm such a noob.
Did the vendor you ordered from have any mention on his page about signing for packages?
You would have only been blacklisted if you let the order auto-finalize.
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To touch on the shipping method and feedback mechanism: Made my first order and it arrived with signature required :(. I was under this wrong impression that an established vendor, who will remain nameless, would have waived signature requirement for obvious reasons. Not a great first experience but I rated it a 5 with great feedback so I don't get blacklisted. I'm such a noob.
Did the vendor you ordered from have any mention on his page about signing for packages?
You would have only been blacklisted if you let the order auto-finalize.
No mention of signature, I PMed the vendor who did state that he NEVER requires signature. The shipping method was an expedited one so I suggested that perhaps there was a "waive signature" option that was missed. The vendor apologized for the mixup. Unfortunately the recipient signed for the package then promptly freaked and threw away all contraband at the receiving location, needless to say a large amount of $$ was lost in fear that LE is on their way back at any moment to make an arrest. I am of the mind that LE would have made the arrest immediately and searched the premises, right?
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The Sellers are responsible for packaging, however we all know that there are no guidelines. EverySR Seller runs his or her own business.They are the ones that should be providing more than adequate shipping methods and packaging. Just tossing product into a bubble pack or handwritten addresses that's a problem.
Buyers however need to call out those Sellers who provide these careless packing and shipping ways - mgs them and say what the fuck were you thinking?? then you buy from a more responsible seller,
Buyer's you all are not in the clear...either putting wrong zip codes, using "John Smith" as a contact name - WTF! this topic can swing both ways.
To net it out - if you're a Seller and don't care about shipping security you are putting buyers and yourself at risk. SR does not need more
exposure.
ce
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great topic, although i have been a SR member for 17 months i am guilty of the "super stealth" feedback for the vac sealed in 3 sheets of paper that can be felt through the envelope-but no more. as one poster said you can feel that damn zip through the envelope. i also agree that the majority of no shows are from wrong delivery, po theft(they think there is money or gift cards inside), or selective scamming(even some of the big guys do it). also thanks for the link to packaging methods tested, YIKES! This has been an informative thread. bumppity bump
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Removed
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Good thread for a noob like myself. Post to keep it on my radar.
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I have just recieved a nice package, the "stuff" was [revealing shipping details]! i will deal with this vendor again
DUDE WTF?! Delete the details. That reveals the vendo'rs stealth methods, anyone can read that. That is NOT cool.
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I have just recieved a nice package, the "stuff" was [revealing shipping details]! i will deal with this vendor again
DUDE WTF?! Delete the details. That reveals the vendo'rs stealth methods, anyone can read that. That is NOT cool.
I don't see the harm directly if they didn't mention a vendor name, but still not cool.
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I have just recieved a nice package, the "stuff" was [revealing shipping details]! i will deal with this vendor again
DUDE WTF?! Delete the details. That reveals the vendo'rs stealth methods, anyone can read that. That is NOT cool.
I don't see the harm directly if they didn't mention a vendor name, but still not cool.
Yeah, I agree they didn't INTEND any harm, but LE scours these threads for details and clues. They might read all of that posters posting history and figure out who he ordered from. Either way, it still isn't good to give LE helpful hints.
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I wish I had more packaging feedback. I'm trying to hone my skills and nobody ever gives me much feedback.
:(
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I wish I had more packaging feedback. I'm trying to hone my skills and nobody ever gives me much feedback.
:(
Well, I am planning to get a couple of MDMA tabs and some ambien soon, so I will be sure to give feedback on your stealth!
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I wish I had more packaging feedback. I'm trying to hone my skills and nobody ever gives me much feedback.
:(
Well, I am planning to get a couple of MDMA tabs and some ambien soon, so I will be sure to give feedback on your stealth!
That might end up an interesting night lol.
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[/quote]
That might end up an interesting night lol.
[/quote]
A little more interesting than most would want. Should have told that to my dad who dropped 4 ambien and then wanted to go out for a drive to get taco bell. ( He would have gotten a DUI if he hadn't been in his driveway )
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Okay, so we're all fat and wasted from Christmas and NYE!! Well done us :)
Although with the amount of no-shows in December and people still sitting on 20+ days and no delivery, I think it's safe to say not much has changed, unfortunately. :-\
This month I'm going to do some more research into packaging and see what I can come up with.
In the meantime, I hope some mods read this thread because we need to instigate change sooner rather than later.
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Oh yeah, to reiterate, here's what I've found out in terms of vapour permeability. Generally oxygen = vapour from what I've read, manufacturers don't make a distinction, and I'm not a chemist so can't elaborate.
Material / Gauge / MVTR (g/100in2/24hrs)
Clear barrier / 5.0 / 0.1 - 0.05
Aluminized PE / 3.6 / 0.4 - 0.02
Aluminized PE / 7.0 / 0.009 - 0.005
Nylon-Foil / 6.0 / < 0.0003
Tyvek-Foil / 10.0 / < 0.0003
The OP of the sniffer dog thread got these results with 'clear barrier' -
MDMA:
Dog went wild on this, I think it was his favourite:
1 layer: within 15 min
2 layers: within 1 hour
3 layers: after 24 hours.
So excuse my math because it's rubbish, but -
3 layers represents 0.0333 which represents 24hrs before MDMA is easily detectable.
So if we want to achieve a 24 DAY non-permeability, we'd need a cumulative value of at the very least 0.0014.
Did I get that basically right? I'm making some very grand noob assumptions of course. :) ???
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All vendors need to do is scrap the crappy plastic they use for their vac seals and use 3M Dri-Shield 3000 and seal the product in one of those. It's readily available world wide, is vacuum sealable and has an MVTR less than 0.0003
Then the only obstacle is to put something soft around it so it doesn't make noise when the envelope is handled (it's foil lined which makes it noisier than PE)
The above is no big secret and both easy and cheap to implement (cheaper than handing out refunds for no shows)
Now lets discuss how to beat x-rays and internal inspections.... Or maybe not 8)
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^^^ Very interesting we need to start making this the norm and not this vac sealing crap. Also there was a thread about contaminating the postal system with hash oil causing so many false negatives the dogs are useless, this needs to be implemented en mass. X-rays i beleive are still unbeatable unless you use lead, which if detected means your shipment is getting a very very detailed inspection.
BC
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All the info on how to get past sniffer dogs and how to get past an x-ray is available either online or on these forums. It has been for a very long time. It's mixed in with a ton of misinformation and it's up to the reader to separate the gold from the dirt.
A competent vendor who cares about the safety of the guy on the other end will go pretty far to burn-down the interception risk. However there are a couple factors you must consider that really can never be overcome
#1 most people on this planet are incompetent, and most people here on SR (both customers and vendors) are incompetent.
#2 good packaging and stealth takes money & time, and time is money.. So there is a cost associated with it. That cost impacts every package. If a shitty vac-seal job and a printed label gets 98% of the packages through, many vendors who think with their wallets will go with the cheap & fast option. There is simply no incentive to put the extra time into it unless the buyers demand a greater level of stealth. The risk aside from the value of the product is on the buyers and the buyers will typically not demand a greater level of stealth because people are cheap (and see #1)
If the average person was intolerant of low quality cheap shit we wouldn't have wal-mart, harbor freight tools, hard drives with 1-yr warranties, QVC, and the slap-chop.
also: never rely on standard aluminum foils. That'd be a terrible material for containing anything. Just buy the MBBs and don't bother vacuuming them, an impulse sealer will do nicely.
Best Regards,
Bob
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also I figured i'd throw this in: for those who want some good MBBs if you buy the 3M 100-packs online you can get a much better deal than buying singles. The 3000 series is best, but even the 2000s are much much better than any food-grade material. Dont forget to cut or punch out the serial number.
http://www.qsource.com/s-40-3m-scc-dri-shield-3000-moisture-barrier-bags.aspx (large bags $100 - 100 pack) You can cut/seal 2 or three small bags fr
om each large bag.
http://www.qsource.com/s-39-3m-scc-dri-shield-2000-moisture-barrier-bags.aspx (the 3.6 mil bags are OK, cheaper, smaller, $13 per hundred)
alternate suppliers:
http://www.moisturebarrierbags.com/index.html
http://texastechnologies.com/moisture-control/moisture-barrier-bag/dri-shield-3000.htm
Bob
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That's less than 30c worth of material.
:-\
Vendors are fucking downright lazy. :-[ You take what you already have - baggie plus vac seal - stick it in one of these 3M bags, spend a whole minute of your precious time and 30c of your precious cash and you're dog-proof.
The irony is of course, you could charge 5-10 bucks extra for the extra step (plus acetone wash would be nice) and people would pay it.
Extra revenue stream, extra profits.
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I think the post a few back hits the nail on the head, so long as most get through with mediocre packaging where is the incentive? most people on here think vac seal is stealth and will rate a successful arrival as 5/5 simply because their order made it.
So how do we as a community support our vendors to up their game and introduce better practices as described in this thread?
I have bumped this thread several times but there has been very little comment from vendors. I personally would be happy to pay an extra premium for this level of service as I am sure many others would too as it would drastically reduce the chances of an intercept. Normal letter mail as a general rule will not be x-rayed so canine detection is our biggest risk of an intercept.
If you are ordering bulk then obviously you take your chances with all the normal risks, parcels and packages are more readily scanned so thus the chances of detection do obviously increase. Subterfuge and cleaver packaging then comes into its own however for the vast majority of us who are only ordering a few grams at a time I know I'd feel a lot happier knowing it was in a 3M bag which doesn't permeate after a matter of minutes.
So come on vendors, what say you???
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5-10 bucks might be the cost to the vendor for improved shipping (including time remember), I'm just going to put it out there that I'd easily pay 5x that on $200-$300 orders any day if it meant the success rate went back up into the 90s. I do believe that a properly sealed product that is undetectable as anything other than a commonly shipped legal product from outside the package by sight/small/touch plus a nondescript outer appearance, with a few extra misdirection tricks I've seen good vendors use will almost never be seized.
Additional sealing to 100% ensure the package is not going to be found by smell, plus regularly changing and innovative outer packaging that's not going to raise any flags and I'd happily fork out an extra $50 an order - that's a pretty decent return for vendors.
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5-10 bucks might be the cost to the vendor for improved shipping (including time remember), I'm just going to put it out there that I'd easily pay 5x that on $200-$300 orders any day if it meant the success rate went back up into the 90s. I do believe that a properly sealed product that is undetectable as anything other than a commonly shipped legal product from outside the package by sight/small/touch plus a nondescript outer appearance, with a few extra misdirection tricks I've seen good vendors use will almost never be seized.
Additional sealing to 100% ensure the package is not going to be found by smell, plus regularly changing and innovative outer packaging that's not going to raise any flags and I'd happily fork out an extra $50 an order - that's a pretty decent return for vendors.
I would really like to hear some vendors come onto this thread and comment. As an additional optional service I am pretty certain buyers from certain countries would be more than happy to pay that bit extra for that level of service.
Vendors????
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Hellooooooo ?
Vendors????????
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Although very new to Silk Road, I consider myself to be a vendor. A vendor on a mission to be exact. But more on that later.
As far as packaging and stealth goes I'm new as well. Threads like this are very important to me although I have a full time job, I spend a lot of time reading and thinking about the best ways to send my packages. I agree that more vendors should spread their knowledge and if I had something to add I definitively would. Right now I'm just figuring out the best ways to send my products by reading these forums, collecting information from other sources and through trial and error.
However, there's a couple of things I that raised questions for me.
Stealth for example means "Having or providing the ability to prevent detection.", which means if a package makes it through it's destination without being detected it was stealthy.
Don't get me wrong, I'm enjoying my search for different was of sending my products without them being detected, but the main goal is to provide my customers with my products.
Another thing is that I don't read anything about different things of importance in different countries. It's not like every country has the exact same methods of finding drugs in their mail systems. And then there's also different companies distributing the mail. Let's talk about different distributors, different countries and what's important in individual cases. Like, what's important when you send an envelope from Germany to Austria? Or what's important when you send a bubble wrap envelope from Spain to the U.K.? There's a lot of different things to take into account when sending different packages to different destinations.
One other thing that strikes me is that everybody is talking about not handwriting the address, even when using a normal envelope. Aren't most envelopes handwritten? Isn't it suspicious that a normal (postcard) envelope has a printed label on it?
Anyways, I just wanna be as creative as possible and use as many different methods as I can, but the most important thing is that the product will get to the customer.
Correct me if I'm wrong on anything, but please explain why.
About the mission I was talking about. I have been using (not abusing) drugs for about 15 years now and I think certain types of drugs are worth taking and can me of value if used correctly. However most people that sell drugs are only in it to make money and don't care about the quality of their products. This is why a lot of the products on the market are of poor quality. Amphetamine, for example, in The Netherlands has had an average purity of about 30% the last 20 years, where the highest possible purity is 71%. Although I'm not a big fan of this product I think it's outrageous that quality can be that bad.
Most people that use drugs haven't got a clue what they're taking. XTC pills for example are in fact bullshit products. You never know what's in them. And the feeling you're looking for is produced by MDMA and/or Amphetamine and maybe a couple of other products like MDA or Methylone. However MDMA is just a small portion of the products use to produce XTC pills. The rest of the products are unknown and most of the time products like rat poison. Even if a pill is tested and the result comes out as 140mg MDMA, there's still the question of how pure this MDMA is and what other products are in the pill as well.
Anyways, my mission is to sell quality products, customized pills and offer advise for anyone that wants to use drugs responsibly.
Check out my page if you're interested and any information or advise you'd like to have I will offer for free, as I think more vendors should do on the forum as far as getting these quality products to the customer!
http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/silkroad/user/b3676889f1
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I see members asking for Vendor input in this thread, and I just want to say that as a vendor I really do not have anything productive to add and that is why I am not commenting. That does not mean that I have not been following this thread very closely, and I would hope that other vendors are doing the same.
I have taken the wisdom in this thread under very serious consideration, and am now reviewing all of my packaging techniques with this information in mind so that I can better serve this community. In my humble opinion, safety (for everyone involved) is single most important thing, and cost should not be a factor if it jeopardizing anyone's safety (buyer or vendor). I believe that no matter how good my packaging is there will always be room for improvement, so I will always be looking to improve.
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Just thought I would chime in on this with some positive comments.
All of my recent orders have had amazing stealth. Especially the last one. I think that the vendors who advertise in the forums tend to be pretty good bets for top notch stealth. Of course there are exceptions, but most of them have at least passable stealth, and many have very imaginative stealth that make me think I have been ripped off for about 5 minutes after I open my package.
When you start to think you will have to message the vendor for help, you know you are looking at some pretty impressive stealth.
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I see members asking for Vendor input in this thread, and I just want to say that as a vendor I really do not have anything productive to add and that is why I am not commenting. That does not mean that I have not been following this thread very closely, and I would hope that other vendors are doing the same.
I have taken the wisdom in this thread under very serious consideration, and am now reviewing all of my packaging techniques with this information in mind so that I can better serve this community. In my humble opinion, safety (for everyone involved) is single most important thing, and cost should not be a factor if it jeopardizing anyone's safety (buyer or vendor). I believe that no matter how good my packaging is there will always be room for improvement, so I will always be looking to improve.
+1 Thank you for commenting and following this thread..it's good to know some vendors are :)
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Just thought I would chime in on this with some positive comments.
All of my recent orders have had amazing stealth. Especially the last one. I think that the vendors who advertise in the forums tend to be pretty good bets for top notch stealth. Of course there are exceptions, but most of them have at least passable stealth, and many have very imaginative stealth that make me think I have been ripped off for about 5 minutes after I open my package.
When you start to think you will have to message the vendor for help, you know you are looking at some pretty impressive stealth.
One particular vendor out of all I have ordered was amazing. I agree with KitKat. :)
Throwing product in a vacpack and inside a box....is not stealth. That's just putting a product in a box.
I am planning to spread some Love around the US. This thread should stickied...if its not already?
-onion-
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I see members asking for Vendor input in this thread, and I just want to say that as a vendor I really do not have anything productive to add and that is why I am not commenting. That does not mean that I have not been following this thread very closely, and I would hope that other vendors are doing the same.
I have taken the wisdom in this thread under very serious consideration, and am now reviewing all of my packaging techniques with this information in mind so that I can better serve this community. In my humble opinion, safety (for everyone involved) is single most important thing, and cost should not be a factor if it jeopardizing anyone's safety (buyer or vendor). I believe that no matter how good my packaging is there will always be room for improvement, so I will always be looking to improve.
Thank you for taking the time to post your comments, as a vendor maybe you could share this info in the vendor forum to help widen the discussion??
One of the main issues at hand here is permeation and instigation of better practices that overcome this problem. If we can dispel the myth regarding vac sealing being the cutting edge of stealth and encourage vendors to adopt better and safer packaging techniques everyone will benefit.
+1 for you.
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This is all quite facinating, you know. ;D
If we weren't talking about getting drugs in the mail, there would be outrage and mass condemnation for the vast majority of vendors on here. But because it's drugs and the majority of buyers are just so chuffed that they don't have to cruise the streets or hassle their mates to have a bit of fun on the weekend, vendors are cut a HUGE amount of slack, and given 5/5 just because the shit eventually arrives, and even if it doesn't they STILL give the vendor 5/5 for trying!
The reality for me is that the majority of no-shows are the vendors fault one-way or another, and this is why I'd like to see shipping improved.
Yeah there are scamming buyers, but buyers with good stats I'd argue would like to keep those stats that way and so I'd generally argue they're not scammers. However, SR is biased towards the vendor, because even less than stellar transactions will still net them good stats, so that leads some vendors to get greedy or keep delivering lazy packaging because they know it won't effect them. Even larger and generally respected sellers now get overseas customers to FE and then shrug their shoulders when the stuff doesn't arrive, blaming a countries amazing Customs people as being some sort of over-funded ninja geniuses, or something.
If you look at the amount of letters going through a given country, and the estimated amount that contain drugs, it's a needle in a haystack. However, if it's a needle the size of a pole vault dipped in hash and painted orange, it kind of defeats the purpose.
Now, I'm not a vendor so lord knows the amount of shit they have to go through, and I suspect once they have it they just want it out the door as quickly as possible, but neither side I'm guessing likes the hassle of shit not arriving. I know I don't. And I also know now that I've been on the road for a year and ordered all sorts of shit from all over the world, that the quality of shipping is the weak link.
I think it's safe to say that dogs and profiling are the No.1 weapons in LE's arsenal, so how can this be countered?
1. We've outlined the vapour transport rates earlier, so simply doing a wash and adding a non-vac'd 3M Dri-Shield 3000 layer to what most vendors are doing already solves to dog issue.
2. The materials are cheap and you can value add by adding the above step so there's no excuse.
3. Profiling. I'm amazed how 12 months later, I order from a vendor and the packaging is the same. Change that shit up! Patterns are pretty much all LE has to go on, so don't make any. You can't change your country, but you can change everything else.
4. Letter Type. I still haven't seen any proper argument as to why a personal looking letter is any more/less inconspicuous than a handwritten one. I think the core issue here is looking authentic, and that's not that hard. Sticking two printed labels on an envelope, and folding a vac-sealed baggie in the middle of an A4 sheet of paper DOES NOT CUT IT.
I think if every vendor did the above and past any costs on, they'd win more customers than they'd lose. Especially in my country where the street prices can be 100-400% more than the global price.
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Truer words were never spoken than this Yowie.
Sombody stick at least sticky this or quote yowie's post in some other threads.
+1 if I could.
namaste
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I have bumped this thread several times but there has been very little comment from vendors.
They are reluctant to talk about packaging, because naturally that hints at *their* packaging.
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I have bumped this thread several times but there has been very little comment from vendors.
They are reluctant to talk about packaging, because naturally that hints at *their* packaging.
Certainly not looking for any vendor to discuss their packaging on here but it would be great to see some acknowledgement of what is being discussed, thoughts of vendors re these proposals, willingness to work with buyers and implement better and safer standards etc.
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whilst i agree that something needs to be done to ensure the safety of buyers and the longevity of the site, i believe it is up to the buyers to use the feedback system properly to do this.
too often you see no feedback or bear minimum comments.everyone should be leaving feedback.
a suggestion could be:
5/5 good product arrived quickly,great comms,stealth packaging,intl order or
3/5 poor packaging,good product.domestic order
the score system needs to have some guidelines so that every one scores fairly and consistenly.
it would also help if people said if it was a domestic or international order in their feedback.
if us the buyers can see who is giving good packaging and where it is going ie domestic or international not specific countries,then those vendors will get more business as they will be trusted more,there should be less "confiscations" and it would force those vendors that arent up to stratch to up there game.
just my 2 cents.
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No offense intended but trying to get buyers to be consistent in their feedback will never happen when many will leave 5/5 for a no show because the vendor seems like a nice person and I'm sure it was just those nasty customs people who nabbed my order and the vast majority of people (huge generalization I know) still think vac sealing is the cutting edge of stealth and many are just happy their order made it!!
If we can dispel the myth re certain packaging types and try to encourage vendors to introduce safer alternatives everyone will benefit, have it as an optional extra in the shipping options so for those who would use it the vendor makes a small bit extra for their trouble and the buyer can relax knowing the chances of canine detection are eliminated.
Seems like a win win situation to me.
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as i said mate was just a suggestion. whilst i like the idea of paying extra for better packaging especially for international orders how would you know that the vendor was actually using different packaging and not just pocketing the cash, its not like they are going to discuss their packaging,just like we wouldn't in our feedback.
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as i said mate was just a suggestion. whilst i like the idea of paying extra for better packaging especially for international orders how would you know that the vendor was actually using different packaging and not just pocketing the cash, its not like they are going to discuss their packaging,just like we wouldn't in our feedback.
I only work with a few very trusted vendors who I know when it's marked in transit it's been sent, so if it arrived and wasn't packaged as requested I would discuss it with them and sort things out. For many buyers who swim with the big fish on SR it's a different story I guess, not much in the way of personal service or attention to detail when your vendor of choice is shipping a 1000 items a month and you wait 4 days for a reply to your PM. In those circumstances it would need to be volume of pressure from buyers requesting this service and speaking up if things were not conducted as agreed.
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I've always used 3M or Heat Seal foil for any illicit shipments I make, and I've yet to lose one to customs :)
Australia is always lauded as super tough but I've never even had an order opened, never mind seized, by them.
I've had 3 orders opened by Scandinavian customs, all were resealed and sent on with no problems :)
But if Australia is full of scammers trying to get free stuff, why haven't I had hundreds of claims of non delivery?
I think thieving postmen are a bigger problem than customs, they are much more likely to have your order in their hands and feeling whats inside.
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I've always used 3M or Heat Seal foil for any illicit shipments I make, and I've yet to lose one to customs :)
Australia is always lauded as super tough but I've never even had an order opened, never mind seized, by them.
I've had 3 orders opened by Scandinavian customs, all were resealed and sent on with no problems :)
But if Australia is full of scammers trying to get free stuff, why haven't I had hundreds of claims of non delivery?
I think thieving postmen are a bigger problem than customs, they are much more likely to have your order in their hands and feeling whats inside.
once again....lol at you thinkinh yout pstie steals your drug mail
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I've always used 3M or Heat Seal foil for any illicit shipments I make, and I've yet to lose one to customs :)
Australia is always lauded as super tough but I've never even had an order opened, never mind seized, by them.
I've had 3 orders opened by Scandinavian customs, all were resealed and sent on with no problems :)
But if Australia is full of scammers trying to get free stuff, why haven't I had hundreds of claims of non delivery?
I think thieving postmen are a bigger problem than customs, they are much more likely to have your order in their hands and feeling whats inside.
once again....lol at you thinkinh yout pstie steals your drug mail
I don't think they pinch the stuff i send, my orders always arrive :)
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I'm going to see if I can get this thread stickyed, will let you know how I go.
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Important to keep this thread bumped for everyone. ;)
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Following thread.
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I had an intl. order. France from UK a couple of months back, drops through my letterbox and a family member handed it to me, "here's your mail". Getting a little close to the outside of the package, I couldn't half smell the skunk inside, upon opening the smell was real strong. Packaging was a few sandwich bags melted down on the edges to create a 'seal'.
I'm surprised I didn't get a customs seizure, a dog would smell that package from miles off.
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I've always used 3M or Heat Seal foil for any illicit shipments I make, and I've yet to lose one to customs :)
Australia is always lauded as super tough but I've never even had an order opened, never mind seized, by them.
I've had 3 orders opened by Scandinavian customs, all were resealed and sent on with no problems :)
But if Australia is full of scammers trying to get free stuff, why haven't I had hundreds of claims of non delivery?
I think thieving postmen are a bigger problem than customs, they are much more likely to have your order in their hands and feeling whats inside.
once again....lol at you thinkinh yout pstie steals your drug mail
I don't think they pinch the stuff i send, my orders always arrive :)
You should look into offering a forward shipping service with your packaging Pluto :) I'd certainly be happy to pay more for packaging that isn't just sealed with a food-grade vacuum.
congrats on becoming a full member mok!
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I've always used 3M or Heat Seal foil for any illicit shipments I make, and I've yet to lose one to customs :)
Australia is always lauded as super tough but I've never even had an order opened, never mind seized, by them.
I've had 3 orders opened by Scandinavian customs, all were resealed and sent on with no problems :)
But if Australia is full of scammers trying to get free stuff, why haven't I had hundreds of claims of non delivery?
I think thieving postmen are a bigger problem than customs, they are much more likely to have your order in their hands and feeling whats inside.
Can you try and generate some discussion re this on the vendor forum PlutoPete? it'd be great to see more vendors adopting these practices.
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I've always used 3M or Heat Seal foil for any illicit shipments I make, and I've yet to lose one to customs :)
Australia is always lauded as super tough but I've never even had an order opened, never mind seized, by them.
I've had 3 orders opened by Scandinavian customs, all were resealed and sent on with no problems :)
But if Australia is full of scammers trying to get free stuff, why haven't I had hundreds of claims of non delivery?
I think thieving postmen are a bigger problem than customs, they are much more likely to have your order in their hands and feeling whats inside.
Can you try and generate some discussion re this on the vendor forum PlutoPete? it'd be great to see more vendors adopting these practices.
[/quote
congrats on mod status SSBD when the hell did that happen?
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I've always used 3M or Heat Seal foil for any illicit shipments I make, and I've yet to lose one to customs :)
Australia is always lauded as super tough but I've never even had an order opened, never mind seized, by them.
I've had 3 orders opened by Scandinavian customs, all were resealed and sent on with no problems :)
But if Australia is full of scammers trying to get free stuff, why haven't I had hundreds of claims of non delivery?
I think thieving postmen are a bigger problem than customs, they are much more likely to have your order in their hands and feeling whats inside.
Can you try and generate some discussion re this on the vendor forum PlutoPete? it'd be great to see more vendors adopting these practices.
[/quote
congrats on mod status SSBD when the hell did that happen?
Haha thanks mate, I just asked DPR and they gave me mod privileges. I seem to spend most of my time on here trying to help the AU community anyway so I thought it might help improve my chances of reducing some of the FUD threads and posts that I'm sure piss you and many other aussies off.
See how it goes I guess, anything that helps it worth it in my book.
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Just been looking at Pluto's vendor page, those bags sound really good.
Hope all vendors start using them. ;)
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I've always used 3M or Heat Seal foil for any illicit shipments I make, and I've yet to lose one to customs :)
Australia is always lauded as super tough but I've never even had an order opened, never mind seized, by them.
I've had 3 orders opened by Scandinavian customs, all were resealed and sent on with no problems :)
But if Australia is full of scammers trying to get free stuff, why haven't I had hundreds of claims of non delivery?
I think thieving postmen are a bigger problem than customs, they are much more likely to have your order in their hands and feeling whats inside.
Can you try and generate some discussion re this on the vendor forum PlutoPete? it'd be great to see more vendors adopting these practices.
[/quote
congrats on mod status SSBD when the hell did that happen?
Haha thanks mate, I just asked DPR and they gave me mod privileges. I seem to spend most of my time on here trying to help the AU community anyway so I thought it might help improve my chances of reducing some of the FUD threads and posts that I'm sure piss you and many other aussies off.
See how it goes I guess, anything that helps it worth it in my book.
hahah good but if going from the aussie thread theres going to be alot less drug-fuelled rantings coming from my end for awhile i think.
BC
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I have been following this thread for a few days and have to say I think that most of the content is excellent! Good on you Yowie for kicking it off.
Also, congrats to samesamebutdifferent on getting Mod status, I find your postings to be some of the most relevant and accurate on the forums mate... well done!
From here I just hope that a few of the leading Vendors get on board with improving stealth overall. LE will only need to invest a bit more more heavily in screening mail and I reckon there will be a shitload of "no-show" packages in the near future... at the moment it seems to be not much more than a numbers game. I have actually been surprised that my first half dozen orders have made it through the mail system given that the stealth has largely consisted of single vac seal, A4 paper, and a pretty simple envelope etc.
My personal opinion is that... if SR keeps getting more popular (with the media as well as bona fide customers) I think there will likely be an increased focus by LE to clamp down on mail order drugs. If that happens, our days of sharing this amazing marketplace are already numbered... and that would be a great bloody shame!
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Congrats on being a mod SSBD, ;)
Good to have an aussie moderator here. :)
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I have been following this thread for a few days and have to say I think that most of the content is excellent! Good on you Yowie for kicking it off.
Thanks mate!
Also, congrats to samesamebutdifferent on getting Mod status, I find your postings to be some of the most relevant and accurate on the forums mate... well done!
Nice! Would be hard to be as shit as Limetless, so I already consider this a victory! ;)
... at the moment it seems to be not much more than a numbers game. I have actually been surprised that my first half dozen orders have made it through the mail system given that the stealth has largely consisted of single vac seal, A4 paper, and a pretty simple envelope etc.
Yeah you've hit the nail on the head. It's only numbers protecting us at the moment. If LE improves their game, or gets more efficient, or gets more funding, there's nothing vendors are doing to counter that at the moment. Vendors are sitting on their hands, LE isn't.
If there's nothing from the outside to indicate drugs, then the fastest way to get an indication is dogs. If the dogs can't detect anything, then as far as I can ascertain, they'd have to be pretty keen to go on to x-ray because it's time consuming considering the volume. I reckon if you haven't been profiled, there's no outside indicators, and the dogs can't smell anything, it would be pure luck if your letter got intercepted.
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I reckon you are spot on Yowie. I have referred to this thread in a couple of other postings I have made over the last couple of days so hopefully the 'right people' will pick up on it and pick up the game! International mail is only going to increase in volume with the continuing spike in online shopping so if we can get the packaging right, you would think the odds of successful deliveries to pretty well everywhere is only going to improve... at least for occasional, relatively small qty buyers.
Intelligent, informative and objective information like this is brilliant for the future of SR mate, if I was a bit 'older' I would be able to +1 you!
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Do business logos on address labels and packing lists/invoices inside the package sound like a good idea?
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Nice! Would be hard to be as shit as Limetless, so I already consider this a victory! ;)
Limetless was great comedy value
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Congrats on being a mod SSBD, ;)
Good to have an aussie moderator here. :)
Cheers mate :)
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So I put it to my preferred vendor of choice re would they consider using the 3M bags and they ignored my question. No great surprise as they are still confident in the single food grade vac seal that they use.
It would be great if some of the vendors who have taken the time to post on this thread generate some discussion in the vendor forum and come back with some feedback as to whether they would consider implementing this as a shipping option.
Heat sealed non permeable bags are the way to go.
Lets try and keep the momentum going.
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Agreed SSBD... I can't imagine why Vendors wouldn't want to run with an affordable, available and improved method of packaging. Less re-ships and refunds for them, more happy customers, less drama all round I reckon. It's not like a Vendor needs to invest heavily in new equipment or implement a much more difficult packaging process... seems like a no brainer?
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Things are not going to change unless SR admins force new rules upon vendors.
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Things are not going to change unless SR admins force new rules upon vendors.
Buyers can choose to only use vendors with quality packaging and change the market themselves.
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I'm confused by the complaining about A4 paper. I understand not liking the useless vac-seal (especially when better methods to keep the smell in are cheap and readily available), but if you're going for a business letter look, wouldn't anything other than A4 paper just draw extra attention?
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packaging isnt rocket science, all the details have been sorted out for you by large companies. go into any food store, find a smelly item, maybe coffee or tuna fish. some are poorly packed and you can smell through them. others are not so easy to smell, focus on that type of packaging. It WILL be mylar and aluminum foil type packaging. not one respecting company is going to pack tuna fish in a damn vapor permeable polyethylene vac bags. i recommend paying good attention to tuna fish packaged in the bag not can. easy to replicate very secure. AND the fucking bags are like 20 cents each AND you dont need a 100$ vac sealer just a 15$ impulse sealer. its all this false information about how good vac seal is from vacmaster infomercial or something. how may times do you see vacuum sealed coke and marijuana on the boarder wars show, never seen a mylar/aluminum bag on there though....
maybe i should setup a custom service for printing real product bags..
:D
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why should buyers have to keep shelling out dimes for 'super-dooper stealth packaging' which should already being used (understandable for larger orders) especially if the vendor can see that they live in AUS. If vendors want their business to last and not just after that quick dollar they would already be doing so. I think the only solution to this is to name and shame vendors, who aren't going that extra mile when sending something OS, and giving roaring reviews to the vendors who are actually making some kind of effort to conceal the product to the best of their ability. Fair is fair.
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bumping for superior stealth standards
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There is some great information here! Thanks everyone that has shared!
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these are some of the better bags i have found, anyone found better bags? they have a nylon/aluminum/POLYPROPYLENE layered construction.
WATERVAPOR TRANSMISSION RATE (FED-01) 0.0003 gms./100sq.In./24 hrs.
O2 TRANSMISSION RATE (MOCON) 0.0006 cc/100sq.In./24 hrsg.
This is a certified maximum transmission rate .
i found others that looked ok except the pe good but no o2 data and same water transmission rate.
bon = Biaxally Oriented Nylon
PHYSICAL PROPERTIES (BON / PE / FOIL / PE / BON / LLDPE with metallocene)
anyone know about printing on such materials, nylon or polypropylene? similar to making transparencies?
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+1 Great thread.
Every few months we discover that regular vacuum sealing is even worse than we previously thought, and every few months we find out a more effective method of packaging.. and yet nothing ever gets changed.
I've had enough of vendors advertising *SUPER STEALTH GUARANTEED DELIVERY* and getting the same old packaging.
Agreed. Vendors are being lazy and new buyers are perpetuating the vendors myth that they have super duper stealth.
I laugh when I read something like this "5/5 zomg! Arrived sooooo fast, packaging A++. Best stealth on SR!!!"
Fuck you guy - I've bought from them and know your gear is hidden between two sheets of 250gsm A4 paper.
LMAO
you sir made my eyes rainnn..
lol fuck you guy ive bought from them and know your gear is hidden between two sheets of 250gsm A4paper hahahahahahahha
ahahahhahahahaha
oh lord.. u are a great.. great man..
and yes i second this and up and one up this thread op.. i am also sick of it..
people telling me oh dude i had no idea what it was!!
GET THE FUCK OUTTA HERE .. SOME OF THESE FUCKING VENDERS REALLY ONLY USE MINIMUM STEALTH AT BEST..
some dont use any at all and just hope no one opens it..
WE NEED CHANGE..
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FROM NOW ON WE SHOULD LEAVE 4 OUT OF 5 FOR A VENDER NOT TRYING
DONT BE ABSURD BUT IF THEY HAVE NO RESPECT TO AT LEAST MASK IT TO THE EYE..
4 OUT OF 5
IF THEY DONT PUT EFFORT TO MAKE ME SAFE
4 OUT OF 5
IF THEY SIMPLY PUT IT IN THE BOX WITH A FUCKING EASILY OPENED OBJECT.. (YOU GUYS KNOW WHO AND WHAT I MEAN)
4 OUT OF 5
LETS CHANGE THIS!!!
IF THEY DONT TRY!! 4 OUT OF 5!!!!
IF THEY DONT TRY!! 4 OUT OF 5!!!!
IF THEY DONT TRY!! 4 OUT OF 5!!!!!
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Things are not going to change unless SR admins force new rules upon vendors.
Buyers can choose to only use vendors with quality packaging and change the market themselves.
I wish it was only that simple, I have only found a very small number of vendors selling HQ of my preferred drug of choice on SR so chopping and changing vendors isn't really an option, as several people have already said it is a numbers game so all the time 'most' shipments get through there is no real incentive for vendors to implement safer packaging. What is being proposed on this thread would add negligible cost if any to existing packaging arrangements but WOULD greatly reduce the chances of canine detection, seems a no brainer to me but change won't just happen unless people ask for it. As previously stated I would even be happy to pay a premium for this shipping option even though the real cost to the vendor wouldn't be much if anything, I just want to incentivise this option to vendors so more use it.
In reality it should be the standard but we are a long way off from that, baby steps I guess.
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How's this for a concept.
One quick and easy solution from a vendor-side POV would be the fast implementation of a basic standard, that they can easily add to their listings which would make it super easy for buyers to sort out the good from the bad.
So, I would like to introduce the SOMS Standard!
Small Order Minimum Stealth Standard
Very simply rules to comply.
1. This is for orders under 10g of powders.
2. Method of freight is regular mail
3. Letter has the appearance inside and out of a regular business or personal letter
4. Product cannot be detected through the envelope, visually or by feel.
5. Product is undetectable by dogs for the reasonably foreseeable duration of the delivery.
If vendors want to comply to this standard, they simply state "SOMS Compliant" on their listings. Then buyers can very, very easily see the vendors that have an active interest in improving their shipping.
What do you think????
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ya except vendors already say 'super stealth packaging' and its mdma in a folded up piece of paper in an envelope.
the buyers need to rat them out, its the buyers ass on the line. Let others know, if it wasn't very stealthy say exactly how it was packed and force them to change packaging ways, your arnt giving up any important info if it wasnt done correctly and safely in the first place. I would be confident enough to give a postal employee my unboxed package and have them package and ship it.
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ya except vendors already say 'super stealth packaging' and its mdma in a folded up piece of paper in an envelope.
the buyers need to rat them out, its the buyers ass on the line. Let others know, if it wasn't very stealthy say exactly how it was packed and force them to change packaging ways, your arnt giving up any important info if it wasnt done correctly and safely in the first place. I would be confident enough to give a postal employee my unboxed package and have them package and ship it.
i agree i have a large order coming in ..
people should just come in on this thread and state what it was like not any details but if it was acceptable
and be honost
ill start got a order coming in 2maro..
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I have been following this thread for a few days and have to say I think that most of the content is excellent! Good on you Yowie for kicking it off.
Thanks mate!
Also, congrats to samesamebutdifferent on getting Mod status, I find your postings to be some of the most relevant and accurate on the forums mate... well done!
Nice! Would be hard to be as shit as Limetless, so I already consider this a victory! ;)
... at the moment it seems to be not much more than a numbers game. I have actually been surprised that my first half dozen orders have made it through the mail system given that the stealth has largely consisted of single vac seal, A4 paper, and a pretty simple envelope etc.
Yeah you've hit the nail on the head. It's only numbers protecting us at the moment. If LE improves their game, or gets more efficient, or gets more funding, there's nothing vendors are doing to counter that at the moment. Vendors are sitting on their hands, LE isn't.
If there's nothing from the outside to indicate drugs, then the fastest way to get an indication is dogs. If the dogs can't detect anything, then as far as I can ascertain, they'd have to be pretty keen to go on to x-ray because it's time consuming considering the volume. I reckon if you haven't been profiled, there's no outside indicators, and the dogs can't smell anything, it would be pure luck if your letter got intercepted.
I have worked and know countless police officers, someone very close to me is actually a dog handler..
and I have been told numerous times, that the dog can only be used to identify one drug - some can't even identify drugs, they are just trained to sit or start going crazy when their handler does certain things, like if the officer thinks you look suspicious he might tug the lead harder and the dog knows it's time to react, so that they have a legitimate reason to search you.
Drug dogs wont work - but if you really think about it, it's going to be hard to sort all the "drugs in the mail" out. In the UK alone, there is something like 60 million packages being moved about the country by the royal mail...
How the hell are the going to find drugs in amongst that 60 million any more accurately than they are now?
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woah i dont know who gave you that info about dogs only being trained for one drug thats totally WRONG!
i played soccer with this kid wh's dad trains all the police dogs in our the area, as well as my dog. the dogs are expensive and are trained for MANY things including bombs, guns (powder residue), drugs (coke meth weed heroin), and people!
to think a dog can only learn to find one thing is silly.
my neighbor few houses down was a k9 police officer when i was in high school and his 2 dogs (one retired) would sit at the very corner of the fence closest to my yard any time i smoked pot
the dogs arnt perfect but dont underestimate them the reason many packages get through even if there is no 'stealth' is dogs arnt at every facility all the time.
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How's this for a concept.
One quick and easy solution from a vendor-side POV would be the fast implementation of a basic standard, that they can easily add to their listings which would make it super easy for buyers to sort out the good from the bad.
So, I would like to introduce the SOMS Standard!
Small Order Minimum Stealth Standard
Very simply rules to comply.
1. This is for orders under 10g of powders.
2. Method of freight is regular mail
3. Letter has the appearance inside and out of a regular business or personal letter
4. Product cannot be detected through the envelope, visually or by feel.
5. Product is undetectable by dogs for the reasonably foreseeable duration of the delivery.
If vendors want to comply to this standard, they simply state "SOMS Compliant" on their listings. Then buyers can very, very easily see the vendors that have an active interest in improving their shipping.
What do you think????
Sounds good, I'd just like to see vendors implement the 3M bags for a start, have been pushing it pretty hard but so far only a couple of vendors have shown any interest and that's because they are already using them.
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Dear silk road members.
Next week my vendor account will start and i will sell higclasse cocaine (flakes), SOS, and Ketema Hasj.
Iam reading alot so i can be a vendor with a great reputation. My prices will be FAIR and better than the other vendors because i think the prices on SR are to high.
I will start next week with low price samples so you can see my quality.
Are there any good tips for the packaging. Please PM ME Iam from holland.
PM Me
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ORDER: QP OF BUD FROM NORTHWESTDIRECT
STEALTH: 5/5 for bud i would say this is pretty much as good as it gets.. several layers of stealth.(more then 2)
and no smell at all
very good vender for stealth bud. i would say go for it very fast too
has the option for express now in shipping..
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A lot of vendors ask that you contact them to resolve issues before leaving anything lower than a 5 rating but of course there's nothing they can do for you at that point other than promise to do better next time. I've had a item shipped in mediocre packaging that I wasn't really happy with and I gave 5 stars with a note about the problem in the text, but I if it happens again I'm going to bump it down to a 4 as well.
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lorax,
if the box was damaged in shipping and anyone could look inside, would the contents look unusual?
sounds like good stealth on the outside.
how about camouflage on the inside? :)
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lorax,
if the box was damaged in shipping and anyone could look inside, would the contents look unusual?
sounds like good stealth on the outside.
how about camouflage on the inside? :)
thats the thing i said as good as it gets cuz i havent seen any other vender improve this.. but now that u mention it
YES it looks odd.. i would be like.. wtf is this..
but even then there is other layers u would have to go through to see it..
i just dont know how it could be imporved without costing a lot more for putting it in another object.. we have to be realistic cuz venders are not going to spend 15 dollars extra every shipment
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As a new vendor on Silk Road I'm still kind of confused about the whole stealth thing.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but is the order of importance:
1 package must not look or feel suspicious
2 odor
3 if the package gets opened it must look legit
4 stealth (it wouldn't even show on x-ray)
Please give me some feedback on this as I want to serve my customers as well as possible and I feel this thread and the feedback I get from my customers are the only two ways besides logical thinking on my part (which may differ from the thinking of some of customers).
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i just seen this extreme drug smuggling show. and these dudes were taking bars of soap, cutting them in half and hollowing out the inside to stuff 2 zips of coke in them and then paste the 2 halves of soap back together. and taking this shit on an airplane.
i dont think doing something like that is to extreme or asking too much for stealth for amounts of drugs that can carry lengthy sentences, like crack and heroin...
and dont say i gave any secrets away i seen the thing on tv :P
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Thats hardly new, thats how drugs were smuggled into prisons for years.
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no one said it was new, i wasnt even suggesting anyone do it. just an example of low cost way to disguise your package as an every day item.
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i just seen this extreme drug smuggling show. and these dudes were taking bars of soap, cutting them in half and hollowing out the inside to stuff 2 zips of coke in them and then paste the 2 halves of soap back together. and taking this shit on an airplane.
i dont think doing something like that is to extreme or asking too much for stealth for amounts of drugs that can carry lengthy sentences, like crack and heroin...
and dont say i gave any secrets away i seen the thing on tv :P
Maybe it would make sense to do something like that if you were buying a couple ounces, but most the coke/heroin listings here are for a few grams or less. Wouldn't it make more sense to send it as a letter amongst the flood of other letters in the postal system rather than have it get the extra attention that a package requires?
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sure, package appropriately. a gram of powder could be laminated between 2 post cards. not much for dogs but not alot of descrete options for smell proof a letter type package. even seen home hand press canners that were cheap. your imagination is your only limit, some peoples brains are fried however.
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How's this for a concept.
One quick and easy solution from a vendor-side POV would be the fast implementation of a basic standard, that they can easily add to their listings which would make it super easy for buyers to sort out the good from the bad.
So, I would like to introduce the SOMS Standard!
Small Order Minimum Stealth Standard
Very simply rules to comply.
1. This is for orders under 10g of powders.
2. Method of freight is regular mail
3. Letter has the appearance inside and out of a regular business or personal letter
4. Product cannot be detected through the envelope, visually or by feel.
5. Product is undetectable by dogs for the reasonably foreseeable duration of the delivery.
If vendors want to comply to this standard, they simply state "SOMS Compliant" on their listings. Then buyers can very, very easily see the vendors that have an active interest in improving their shipping.
What do you think????
Sounds good, I'd just like to see vendors implement the 3M bags for a start, have been pushing it pretty hard but so far only a couple of vendors have shown any interest and that's because they are already using them.
Which vendors are using non-vac'd 3M bags mate?
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i just seen this extreme drug smuggling show. and these dudes were taking bars of soap, cutting them in half and hollowing out the inside to stuff 2 zips of coke in them and then paste the 2 halves of soap back together. and taking this shit on an airplane.
i dont think doing something like that is to extreme or asking too much for stealth for amounts of drugs that can carry lengthy sentences, like crack and heroin...
and dont say i gave any secrets away i seen the thing on tv :P
Hiding stuff like this would set off every alarm going if it was x-rayed, I'm certain these shows only show crap methods. Either pack it in a letter so it's very unlikely to get x-rayed or pack it so the x-ray looks legit.
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I hate "shit-talking" my main vendor but chembros packaging is horrible, half the time the name isn't even correct, and it's usually just a bag inside a UPS catalog, and since it's the only vendor I use, pretty sure that's why I have a letter from customs.
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I hate "shit-talking" my main vendor but chembros packaging is horrible, half the time the name isn't even correct, and it's usually just a bag inside a UPS catalog, and since it's the only vendor I use, pretty sure that's why I have a letter from customs.
A letter saying what?
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As a new vendor on Silk Road I'd like to know, what defines good stealth?
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i think if your package is getting x rayed you have already failed with your stealth, i dont think its really probable to protect against every method of detection.
start with outside packaging, smell, non suspicious inside packaging (even my legit packages are always beat up and i can see inside through a tear in the box), then worry about the odd shit like xray. its not like people have access to one to see how packaging looks.
but again im more concerned with drugs and quantities that carry lengthy prison sentences, not a half gram of mdma.
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As a new vendor on Silk Road I'd like to know, what defines good stealth?
There's no standards, that's the problem.
People think a garden variety vac sealed bag is stealth, but that myth has been well and truly debunked.
For large orders it's a whole other ballgame, and as I'm not interested in that I don't have any comments regarding it.
For small orders though sent via letters in the mail, I think that what I've outlined in this thread is a good minimum. From the exterior if there's no signs, there's no justification/provocation to go to the next step, unless a small sample from Country X has been singled out for special attention.
From there there's dogs, and if the contents have extremely low MVTR, then unless you happen to be in the same basket as another vendors' shit attempt at packaging, you're probably good.
If a letter goes to x-ray, then I'd hazard a guess that a trained officer can easily spot what a ziploc bag in a letter looks like and by that stage the jig is over.
I'm still largely convinced that for small qtys, an exterior that draws no attention to itself, and a final layer of an actual low MTVR seal is the MINIMUM that should be aimed for.
Where vendors go from there is up to them.
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Most of the vendors either got tha hustle down (Admirable) or just doing the bare minimum (sink or swim.. soon enough)
I can understand how hard it can be to change habits.. I mean finding a distribution system that works and getting it up and running is not
rocket science but it is Fucken Work!!! let me tell u.....ones head is like "this and that,.... and oh yea this and that too".... Gloves,clean rooms,
drop offs..ect..u git tha pic....I'm sure its easier in some countries, and the big CAT's (god bless 'em) Stay shinin bright.. but a bitch ne way u put it.
So I can understand why vendors stay locked into what I consider and from my understanding the majority of the buyer community consider sub-par
shipment practices......Soooo sink or swim for all you sucky vendors when highly skilled LE organizations step up their game.....AND THEY WILL..
I mean hell my friend has been duin this stuff for 2yr. on the vendors side and he just heard of SR....just joined.. Huge influx of new members huge
influx of new shipments & interest... any LE readin this is gettin a chubby just from thinking about it...I mean... thats what they dooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Catch us... :-[
what ta do?? what ta do????...
(quick side note) I dont know how any of you let a vendor bully you into 5/5 ..really I mean what tha FUCK! Blackballed??.signature requests?..1/4Lbs.
on a first run.hahah thats funny...
*Put simply.. theirs going to be great opportunity for vendors who make safety on both sides the number one priority.
Start with this and you will be ok.....
*no vacuum sealed plastic use foil, or mylar, foil bags ,MBB'S..they have exact products for this shit..dont be cheap!...research yourself u might learn something.....
*and all the normal formalities of course..gloves, separate rooms(marijuana rm, into box rm)..wash..n stuff.....
so getting passed dogs is really not a problem now right?......especially with domestic ships...
also, when dealing with weed, or any thing for that matter..keep it light stay in flight I say..........
*Printed labels for sure
*Invoices for sure
*Sticky clear invoice holder stuck on package w/ invoice for sure......
*Change up drops ..yup
*Alternate box style..yeesr
also don't let it get out of your control to where shipment quality is reduced because of high volume sales..double up or keep it
small and safe....(mo money mo problems........)
All vendors or new up incoming vendors I should say (the current ones haven't the time..really they don't..)All yall need to do
is smoke A fat one.. and think to yourselves...A dude has a gun to my head and he says if id don't deliver this from A to B
without LE I'm Dead!!!!...
HAPPY SHIPPING.....................
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Most of the vendors either got tha hustle down (Admirable) or just doing the bare minimum (sink or swim.. soon enough)
I can understand how hard it can be to change habits.. I mean finding a distribution system that works and getting it up and running is not
rocket science but it is Fucken Work!!! let me tell u.....ones head is like "this and that,.... and oh yea this and that too".... Gloves,clean rooms,
drop offs..ect..u git tha pic....I'm sure its easier in some countries, and the big CAT's (god bless 'em) Stay shinin bright.. but a bitch ne way u put it.
So I can understand why vendors stay locked into what I consider and from my understanding the majority of the buyer community consider sub-par
shipment practices......Soooo sink or swim for all you sucky vendors when highly skilled LE organizations step up their game.....AND THEY WILL..
I mean hell my friend has been duin this stuff for 2yr. on the vendors side and he just heard of SR....just joined.. Huge influx of new members huge
influx of new shipments & interest... any LE readin this is gettin a chubby just from thinking about it...I mean... thats what they dooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Catch us... :-[
what ta do?? what ta do????...
(quick side note) I dont know how any of you let a vendor bully you into 5/5 ..really I mean what tha FUCK! Blackballed??.signature requests?..1/4Lbs.
on a first run.hahah thats funny...
*Put simply.. theirs going to be great opportunity for vendors who make safety on both sides the number one priority.
Start with this and you will be ok.....
*no vacuum sealed plastic use foil, or mylar, foil bags ,MBB'S..they have exact products for this shit..dont be cheap!...research yourself u might learn something.....
*and all the normal formalities of course..gloves, separate rooms(marijuana rm, into box rm)..wash..n stuff.....
so getting passed dogs is really not a problem now right?......especially with domestic ships...
also, when dealing with weed, or any thing for that matter..keep it light stay in flight I say..........
*Printed labels for sure
*Invoices for sure
*Sticky clear invoice holder stuck on package w/ invoice for sure......
*Change up drops ..yup
*Alternate box style..yeesr
also don't let it get out of your control to where shipment quality is reduced because of high volume sales..double up or keep it
small and safe....(mo money mo problems........)
All vendors or new up incoming vendors I should say (the current ones haven't the time..really they don't..)All yall need to do
is smoke A fat one.. and think to yourselves...A dude has a gun to my head and he says if id don't deliver this from A to B
without LE I'm Dead!!!!...
HAPPY SHIPPING.....................
go away..
we dont like your kind
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go away..
we dont like your kind
[/quote]
Funny! ;D
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Someone give that man a Xanax!
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It seems like its been well established in this thread that the standards for smell-proofing orders needs to be stepped up, but I've received a few orders that I felt seemed shadier than they had to be, with no regard to whether a dog would be able to sniff out what was inside or not. It was just because the packages were too LIGHT. I just always feel like a P.O. employee would find it odd to see a medium flat rate priority box that weighs a fraction of an ounce(on top of the weight of the box itself obviously.) I think it should be an ABSOLUTE given that ALL orders should be packaged in a way that makes postal employees think they almost know that something legitimate is inside(a DVD, a book, etc.) It shouldn't be an additional shipping option, it should be expected and mandatory. Both for the vendor to do it and for the buyer to accept the fact that the cost of this will always be included in the shipping cost.
I just think it would do very much for the cause of keeping both vendors and buyers safe, and to preserve the longevity of the road.
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It seems like the need for the standards of smell-proofing orders to be stepped up has been established, but I've received a few orders that I felt seemed shadier than they had to be just because the packages were too LIGHT. I just always feel like a P.O. employee would find it odd to see a medium flat rate priority box that weighs a fraction of an ounce(on top of the weight of the box itself obviously.) I think it should be an ABSOLUTE given that ALL orders should be packaged in a way that makes postal employees think they almost know that something legitimate is inside(a DVD, a book, etc.) It shouldn't be an additional shipping option, it should be expected and mandatory. Both for the vendor to do it and for the buyer to accept the fact that the cost of this will always be included in the shipping cost.
I just think it would do very much for the cause of keeping both vendors and buyers safe, and to preserve the longevity of the road.
i agree.. idk what else they could do tho.. without it costing them a arm and a leg plus i think they charge you if it weights more..
idk tho..
but i do know that it need to be addressed
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After what i've witnessed, not enough vendors are on the ball.
I'm sorry to everyone who is sending me PM's asking for the vendor, but i cant.
Especially members with fuck all forum contributions.
Do your home work and you will find like i did. It would put that vendor into overdrive and i'm sure someone would eventually pick it up and ruin it for everyone.
Even though i have spoken to a few of you, theres a 50/50 chance your LE, so i'm taking no chances.
Sorry to seem harsh, but i think letters are just way too suss now. After what i've seen theres no need for them.
Basically this is nothing new, how you think our domestic vendors have their wares sent over? They have it all worked out, and surely they must chuckle reading our posts of non-delivery of a simple gram of something?
These guys are getting bulk in, so that should give you all a clue that letters are just a waste of fucking time.
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It seems like the need for the standards of smell-proofing orders to be stepped up has been established, but I've received a few orders that I felt seemed shadier than they had to be just because the packages were too LIGHT. I just always feel like a P.O. employee would find it odd to see a medium flat rate priority box that weighs a fraction of an ounce(on top of the weight of the box itself obviously.) I think it should be an ABSOLUTE given that ALL orders should be packaged in a way that makes postal employees think they almost know that something legitimate is inside(a DVD, a book, etc.) It shouldn't be an additional shipping option, it should be expected and mandatory. Both for the vendor to do it and for the buyer to accept the fact that the cost of this will always be included in the shipping cost.
I just think it would do very much for the cause of keeping both vendors and buyers safe, and to preserve the longevity of the road.
i agree.. idk what else they could do tho.. without it costing them a arm and a leg plus i think they charge you if it weights more..
idk tho..
but i do know that it need to be addressed
If a vendor uses priority mail, they can send anything that will fit into that little box for like $5.85 USD no matter how much it weighs. They could buy a bunch of CD jewel cases, empty DVD cases, and a bunch of worthless books from a used bookstore/salvation army and just incorporate the product into those. This is just the least expensive/most convenient option I can think of. And even if the vendor doesn't go the "priority mail flat rate box" route and does first class, it's still not that expensive. The cost of domestically(USA) shipping a video game or a book damn near as far as you could send it is like 2 to 4 bucks at the most, unless it's a huge hardcover college textbook, but even then, I wouldn't consider it "an arm and a leg," especially considering what's at stake.
I would have no problem paying a premium for this, as safety should be the #1 concern for all of us, in regards to both consuming and receiving our goods.
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Just to add to what I've been saying, this effort to improve stealth would definitely have to be discussed privately among vendors on some kind of private message board. maybe the main site could provide a vendor's only message board. Just a thought...Maybe I'm just overly paranoid, which I tend to be at times because of certain things.
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Just to add to what I've been saying, this effort to improve stealth would definitely have to be discussed privately among vendors on some kind of private message board. maybe the main site could provide a vendor's only message board. Just a thought...Maybe I'm just overly paranoid, which I tend to be at times because of certain things.
no actually you are right this really should nor be talked about on here... BUT it should be brought to attention on here.. the methods and everything should be secret and we should only
give advice as to what we are most concerned about.
BUT being a very good buyer... i always inform my vender of tricks i think that will help them in shipping if they don't already do it and i've already seen it from a senior vender..
all i can say really is that venders like ROCKER should be looked at as examples of what the standard should be..
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After what i've witnessed, not enough vendors are on the ball.
I'm sorry to everyone who is sending me PM's asking for the vendor, but i cant.
Especially members with fuck all forum contributions.
Do your home work and you will find like i did. It would put that vendor into overdrive and i'm sure someone would eventually pick it up and ruin it for everyone.
Even though i have spoken to a few of you, theres a 50/50 chance your LE, so i'm taking no chances.
Sorry to seem harsh, but i think letters are just way too suss now. After what i've seen theres no need for them.
Basically this is nothing new, how you think our domestic vendors have their wares sent over? They have it all worked out, and surely they must chuckle reading our posts of non-delivery of a simple gram of something?
These guys are getting bulk in, so that should give you all a clue that letters are just a waste of fucking time.
Hey jnemonic, congrats on your recnet success. I remember reading a post from you in the first week of January where you said you had tried O/S but it didnt work out so you were done with that and sticking to domestic. That particular post resonated with me because around that very time I had been forced to face the reality that my long awaited O/S delivery of my 'drug of choice' from MIMM was not going to arrive!
Your post got me thinking about whether to also just give up buying from O/S and try domestic... so I started looking local only to find that the prices were the same or higher than what I can readily source my gear for and without all the online and postal drama.
So I ended up placing another O/S order for my 'drug of choice' in the hope of more success, but am on day 17 now and still waiting. Your success however has given me fresh hope, fingers still crossed it also works out for me this time!
Anyway, enjoy your gear mate... I have had a couple of O/S deliveries arrive (just not for my preferred product). I find the enjoyment I get from a successfully delivered product, at a fraction of the price of local gear, exponentially heightens the enjoyment of that product... it adds a whole new dimension!
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Thanks very much Sekure. +1 to you.
What i paid was nothing compared to here, i couldnt believe it, but the quality surpassed everything i've tried to date.
I mean its that good i had half the dose i normally have and it blew me away last night. And again the price! 8) 8)
But i have spoken to a few O/S vendors since my ivory order never made it. I discussed stealth with one vendor, they actually wanted to hear what would be best, etc.
I've managed to turn around 2 vendors who dont normally ship here, and will be ordering from them sometime in the near future.
These guys have had flawless deliverys, and like to hear what the customer has to say, which was great. Wish more vendors were like that.
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*bump*
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Well another week of this threads existence goes by and other few OS deliveries arrive.....
And the stealth just stays the same. >:(
The optimist in me hopes that vendors all around the world are just about to finish the roll of useless plastic they use for "STEALTH" and are on their way to buy the stuff WE KNOW actually works.....
Change over to the good shit NOW!
Observe the minimum stealth that the often quoted posts in this thread describe.
Put your prices up to cover it. WE WILL FUCKING PAY IT!
Fucken DO IT!
What the fuck is wrong with you guys?
Be the professionals that all your lying arse profile pages describe you as, and make some real fucken cash.
Step it up.
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Great post! Honestly everyone should put more stock into stealth than anything. If you receive an order with mediocre shipping that illustrates little effort towards stealth, simply do not order from the vendor again. No ones safety/ freedom is worth any drug on SR. That is the only way to weed out the problem and force more vendors to step up and take shipping seriously. There are literally a million ways to ship ANY PRODUCT so stealth should honestly be the most consistent and highest quality part of an order.
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I would gladly pay extra for proper stealthy packaging. GLADLY.
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It truly is time for change! I have made 5 orders from SR and first 2 came without a problem, but they too were packed as described many times in this thread. Then I thought that was enough, though they were not at all stealthy. Fuck me with a baseball bat...
I've got 3 orders which are a no show. I even ordered 1 of them to a different address with a different name, real, of course. Annoyingly the first 2 were only about a third of the value compared to the three others. Now I don't know what to do, if I ask a reship, I know they don't arrive, cause I don't have anymore addresses I could use. If I ask for a refund, my stats are gonna look awful. Well, in one case the vendor said no refunds or reships on the listing because "people are taking advantage", fuck, I think it's because of his lousy "stealth", which he of course falsely advertised to get me make my stupid purchase. Should I edit the feedback already? It was sent jan 22nd. Eu to EU. What should i give, 1/5 maybe?
They say you gotta pay you learning money, it seems I have paid a lot of them...
Well, maybe I got some chances left with the one I ordered to a different address, it's been on its way "only" for 8 days, EU to EU.
Any suggestions from the more experienced people what to do?
P.S. Yesterday 4 something BTC were transferred to my SR account, that's a no show too. I think I start to cry now.
P.P.S. IS there any H vendors who can do proper stealth which is not easy to detect by snifferdogs?
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Kristo, don't worry about your stats too much, they'll even out eventually. If vendors bring it up, just explain your side of the story.
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Nobody wanna gimme any hints? This thread is surprisingly quiet, one would think that everyone thinks this is an important subject. Maybe outside of scandinavia it's just friggin' easy to get drugs through mail.
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I use mylar to contain the pungent odor of my cannabis. This is not the only layer of protection, but it is the one that counts. You aren't going to see or smell the cannabis without a knife or scissors, no matter how badly the outermost packaging layer is damaged.
I haven't lost a package yet.
Farmer1, I was going to post asking what materials would be best, and lo and behold you write that. I agree, mylar could be the best to use. It's just expensive. And I lack a source for maylar bags in different sizes, that are economical to boot. Would you have any handy? PM if you don't want to post in the open. If you still don't because of anonymity concerns, I'll understand.
goblin
Check out my link in my sig :)
My Heat Seal Foil is higher grade than Mylar and because it comes as a sheet you can make any size bags you want, the only tools you need are hair straighteners and a pair of scissors :)
It's cheap as chips too, you can pack an awful lot of stuff with a square metre.
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Word of advice, look for new vendors. They are going out of their way with their stealth and they are getting through.
And they are also offering great prices...$40 for a gram of mdma.
How does $60 sound for 2grams of mdma? Yep, prices like that and kick arse stealth are there,
just communicate with your vendor of choice first and ASK them about their stealth.
Last 2 vendors i spoke to actually wanted to know what I thought! What would be best, etc.
Couldnt believe it. I had one vendor who had never sent anything to australia before send me mdma/mda from the hot spot and they arrived.
When i let him/her/they know it had arrived, they were really happy and shared my excitement, they said thank you for trusting us!
There are some truly amazing vendors out there, it has taken me over 2 months to find them and i wont be buying domestic again. My last 2 orders i have saved over $500. ;)
Some long established vendors are obviously getting complacent with their stealth.
Read reviews where people are blown away by the stealth.
My very first O/S order was with an established SR vendor, it was neither sent or seized due to bad stealth.
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P.P.S. IS there any H vendors who can do proper stealth which is not easy to detect by snifferdogs?
lol, I think I found your problem.
And it is what?
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I am a new vendor and really appreciate these sorts of threads. I suggest the OP gather the best ideas and edit the OP (first post) to add details like sources of MBB's etc.. Rather than direct links to the products, general links to the company with names to search for might be safer so people from here dont all use the same exact links to arrive at the product. Though not likely to be common, exact links can be used by leo to sort where people learned of a product.
If the OP does not have the time or whatever to gather up the best ideas and restate them at the beginning, Maybe a new thread with a similar title could be created by someone else with good writing skills and used as the sticky for this topic. I am new and will read 12 to 25 pages of posts to find the best tidbits. Many would not do so. I'm not even sure we should expect every vendor to do so. The inefficiency of trying to get info from this forum is pretty high at this time. Maybe the WIKI ought to be the place to learn? I did not find the WIKI especially useful yet - it may just need time to mature tho.
For thos people looking for something that would "defeat an X-Ray screening system". I think we are lucky people have not found an easy way to do this. If the screeners see a package they cant see inside of, I think that would be a huge red flag.
I'm not all the way thru this thread yet, but it is a great one :-) NWN
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After a long annoying rant...
Someone give that man a Xanax!
Someone sell that person a Xanax in a stealthy package ;-)
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... I would like to introduce the SOMS Standard!
Small Order Minimum Stealth Standard
Very simply rules to comply.
1. This is for orders under 10g of powders.
2. Method of freight is regular mail
3. Letter has the appearance inside and out of a regular business or personal letter
4. Product cannot be detected through the envelope, visually or by feel.
5. Product is undetectable by dogs for the reasonably foreseeable duration of the delivery.
If vendors want to comply to this standard, they simply state "SOMS Compliant" on their listings.
Are you thinking a different standard for greenbuds or other non-powders?
My first impression of #5 is that it is a very tough standard - if they hold the package up to the dogs nose. I'm assuming dogs have super-human powers and that it is a good dog for that substance. I may be overestimating them, but I don't think so. I think requiring that a dog not detect it as it goes by on a conveyor system mixed with many packages might be a better minimum standard for domestic shipping at least. How to test such a standard is another issue.
As for items in the box costing extra, maybe we could offer shipping options that include a list of extra items the buyers could choose to order with their product? So when they pay extra they can get that tacky artwork or bar of soap or... they always wanted.
So should the low MTVR layer(s) be inner or outer layers? I'm thinking inner or mid, not outer.
As for boxes being too light, rocks are cheap:-). To drop in a blue box though, there is a 12 ounce limit I think.
I wonder if, at least domestically, it should be expected that we not ship on Fridays/Saturdays so we don't have packs sitting around in transit over weekends?
I'd be wary of using cd/dvd's or even the cases without a pro package to make it seem legit. I think they might claim they opened it because they thought they were pirated or something.
As for keeping a lot of this discussion on a vendor's only area, I cant get to the vendor's-only forum section yet, but I bet LE is there already. Maybe not as much LE tho.
This thread does seem rather quiet.
I'm Feeling good about my stealthy future, I already ordered my MBB's :-) NWN
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Shipping stealthily actually isnt expensive at all. Many people, surprisingly, just dont seem to take it too seriously. As a vendor you have to RESEARCH and be very creative. When I mean research I dont mean typing into google. You have to research deep, come up with variations of ideas, then choose one that you feel is OVER DOOING IT. Then go with that one. Ive only been a vendor for about a month and 90% of the members compliment us on our package stealth. Its not hard to achieve, just pretend as if you were sending illegal drugs to yourself. Obviously you would take the utmost precaution sending drugs to yourself, so why not take the same approach when shipping to everyone. Just my thoughts.
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It gets a little frustrating reading some of these posts, but then I have to realize it doesn't pertain to us. We are one of the few vendors who put stealth in motion for all our orders from day 1. It's embarrassing to read about how some vendors starting out pay such little attention to the most necessary details! Some of them should be spanked! At least Farmer1 got on it early on!
NCK
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It gets a little frustrating reading some of these posts, but then I have to realize it doesn't pertain to us. We are one of the few vendors who put stealth in motion for all our orders from day 1. It's embarrassing to read about how some vendors starting out pay such little attention to the most necessary details! Some of them should be spanked! At least Farmer1 got on it early on!
NCK
Damn i wished you didnt live in the USA.. :'(
You guys see NCK's listings..? Nearly drooled all over my laptop....awesome offerings. 8)
USA has the most insane strains available...do you sell seeds of those strains by any chance NCK? ::) :P
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It gets a little frustrating reading some of these posts, but then I have to realize it doesn't pertain to us. We are one of the few vendors who put stealth in motion for all our orders from day 1. It's embarrassing to read about how some vendors starting out pay such little attention to the most necessary details! Some of them should be spanked! At least Farmer1 got on it early on!
NCK
Damn i wished you didnt live in the USA.. :'(
You guys see NCK's listings..? Nearly drooled all over my laptop....awesome offerings. 8)
USA has the most insane strains available...do you sell seeds of those strains by any chance NCK? ::) :P
Sorry, just sell seedless! {;-)
NCK
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Wanted to Bump this thread.
The other day I received a QP from one of the top weed vendors in the US. I won't name them but I have pm'd them about this.
First off let me say I live in the midwest and in my area mail from Cali has landed a few people in jail in the past 2 years...none SR related..people I knew who were having friends that moved out there ship them pounds weekly and they caught on...as far as I know allowed them to keep receiving for a while before busting them. (In 1 case...this was a close friend of mine's roommate that got caught up)
Back to the QP: It was shipped in a priority flat rate box and first off it was bulging out like it wanted to pop open....you could squeeze the box and it would bounce back out...It was VERY obvious that it could be weed int here to me. Maybe because I knew there was weed in there...but like I said Cali is scrutinized for weed and this just freaked me out a bit...but then (don, don don)
I turn the box around and every other time I have received weed in the mail in a flat rate box there is clear tape on the sides where you can open it. Well there was no tape, instead there was a rip...it looked like either someone opened it or it snagged. ( I assume it just snagged on something) but you could see inside the box because of this rip in the box and in plain site was a vac sealed bag..luckily the vendor uses a visual barrier between weed and exterior but then after the visual barrier there is another vac seal....
Maybe I'm a bit paranoid and have nothing to worry about but...it freaked me out...I'm really not happy with the vendor either about this...although the tear was not there fault why wouldn't they tape the sides like every other fucking weed vendor?
They have a 100 next to their name and I don't want to ruin that...when I told them about it they said I was number 2 out of 1000 that had that happen and not to worry about it, If I wanted they would include 2 extra grams of 2 strains with my next order but then they pulled their listings....
I don't even think I'm going to order from the vendor again maybe never order anything again...or now I need to find another safe drop or call it quits with the road....this really pisses me off and stresses me out because I'm currently waiting on 2 OS orders..one of them is heroin. Ughhhh....I'm really disappointed in the fact this vendor has had this happen before and didn't think to start taping that little part where it can easily be opened..or in my case (I hope) snag on something and rip open.
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Sorry for your troubles. That does sound bad. You might want to PM the vendor with a link to this thread and the sticky about "ditch the PE". Too much tape looks suspicious and what I have read suggested tape was bad and spray glue was better. I have been doing some of each but I do think a single clear packing tape strip over the most easily opened side/end(s) looks professional when done right. NWN
2 of 1000 is too many, of course.
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True words Yowie. I am amazed that i can get 100% delivery from 2 US vendors and now 2 no shows from a canadian super store. If we presume honetsy is being applied then the difference is the packing. Both US letters exactly fit your discription of stealth. the bench marks in SR craft. So why are the bigger vendors so slow to up there standards, too busy, dont care or why not have a bonus and dont send. It does'nt matter why it does'nt arrive, if it does'nt then that is a neglect in duty of care on vendors part, not good enough. There is a lot of money being made and a tiny bit of it should go into developing techniques to win. I am over the big guys, had nothing but nothing from them and they have the same protections as corporations so you cant get to them in any meaningful way to argue your case.
Thanks to all the professional vendors out there who have those stats that say, we actually deliver 99,9% of the time
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If anyone is willing to back me up in asking US MDMA vendors to use MBBs then please post up at http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=133520.0
This message might also help to keep this very important thread right here visible. MBBs are cheap. PM your vendors and ask for MBBs otherwise they probably won't bother.
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Wanted to Bump this thread.
The other day I received a QP from one of the top weed vendors in the US. I won't name them but I have pm'd them about this.
First off let me say I live in the midwest and in my area mail from Cali has landed a few people in jail in the past 2 years...none SR related..people I knew who were having friends that moved out there ship them pounds weekly and they caught on...as far as I know allowed them to keep receiving for a while before busting them. (In 1 case...this was a close friend of mine's roommate that got caught up)
Back to the QP: It was shipped in a priority flat rate box and first off it was bulging out like it wanted to pop open....you could squeeze the box and it would bounce back out...It was VERY obvious that it could be weed int here to me. Maybe because I knew there was weed in there...but like I said Cali is scrutinized for weed and this just freaked me out a bit...but then (don, don don)
I turn the box around and every other time I have received weed in the mail in a flat rate box there is clear tape on the sides where you can open it. Well there was no tape, instead there was a rip...it looked like either someone opened it or it snagged. ( I assume it just snagged on something) but you could see inside the box because of this rip in the box and in plain site was a vac sealed bag..luckily the vendor uses a visual barrier between weed and exterior but then after the visual barrier there is another vac seal....
Maybe I'm a bit paranoid and have nothing to worry about but...it freaked me out...I'm really not happy with the vendor either about this...although the tear was not there fault why wouldn't they tape the sides like every other fucking weed vendor?
They have a 100 next to their name and I don't want to ruin that...when I told them about it they said I was number 2 out of 1000 that had that happen and not to worry about it, If I wanted they would include 2 extra grams of 2 strains with my next order but then they pulled their listings....
I don't even think I'm going to order from the vendor again maybe never order anything again...or now I need to find another safe drop or call it quits with the road....this really pisses me off and stresses me out because I'm currently waiting on 2 OS orders..one of them is heroin. Ughhhh....I'm really disappointed in the fact this vendor has had this happen before and didn't think to start taping that little part where it can easily be opened..or in my case (I hope) snag on something and rip open.
THATS SAME THING HAPPENED TO ME ... ABOUT 10 SHIPMENTS AGO. AND IT WAS FOR A HALF POUND AND I ALSO AM IN THE SAME AREA AS YOU
i think i know the vender..
but i was a kinda freaked out buy seeing it ripped like that. i never brought it up to the vender cuz i figured it was no big deal cuz it got here..
also i have been getting pounds for months now and nothing has happened i use a p o box to btw so i feel a lot safer picking it up when its like 3 in the morning and i can tell there is no cars around.. plus they cant see what box im going to...
i think u maybe freaking out a little bit tooo much..
pm me so we can talk about who i think it was bro..
either way be safe and if u got a funny feeling go with it..
humans are one of the only species that dont ALWAYS trust there instincts .. so u are right in ur thoughts just dont freak ur self out tooo much! 1
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QP in a small flat rate box? interesting. It definitely wanted to pop of if thats the case. In all honesty though, if youve been ordering QPs that have been bulging out the box, the tape isn't going to do much to deter anyone from getting to it and you shouldn't be surprised the box has been messed with. The vendor probably is correct that this is only the 2nd time its happened but as a buyer I probably wouldn't of ordered a QP again if it was sent in a small priority box and bulging out. Every article on profiling illegal packages point to taping of all corners and essentially poor packaging. Bulging packs is considered poor packaging. On top of it being from Cali.
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This is a very valuable thread. I hope the newbies are reading it. My guess is that many assume "vacuum seal" is sufficient for this stuff. I certainly did when I first arrived here.
In the absence of an ideal reform of the feedback system, I recommend that buyers with an otherwise satisfactory transaction with problematic stealth rate a 5 out of 5, but in the feedback point out that "stealth should be improved" or something along those lines. That shouldn't jeopardize future purchases or piss off the vendor, but it will get the message out there.
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... but in the feedback point out that "stealth should be improved" or something along those lines. That shouldn't jeopardize future purchases or piss off the vendor, but it will get the message out there.
Maybe add a link to this thread in their gentle feedback suggestion to the vendor ;-)
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I only ship usa to usa. do we really need to worry about dogs if it's just domestic and well packaged?
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I only ship usa to usa. do we really need to worry about dogs if it's just domestic and well packaged?
YES YOU DO! I get the feeling that many here (including vendors) assume that merely because it's domestic that you don't need to use proper stealth. Not true! I've had a domestic package seized, which I suspect was due to 1) Faulty stealth practices (the vendor is well known and at 99 percentile) and 2) Express shipping (I will never order anything express anymore). I also am fairly sure it was seized due to drug dog sniffers.
The drug dog is SR's arch-nemesis. If vendors can step up their acts and find ways to pass drug dog tests, I'm fairly certain that most seizures will stop happening.
The vendor Indubitably has claimed that his stealth passes the drug dog test, but I have no way of confirming this. In no way am I recommending him either.
My tips for vendors:
1) Up the stealth to pass drug dog tests and X-rays. THIS IS ESPECIALLY IMPORTANT IF YOU SHIP DRUGS THAT ARE ROUTINELY CHECKED FOR (pot, heroin, meth, cocaine, etc).
2) Don't offer express unless you can satisfy #1 - Express shipping is where most seizures take place since there are less of them going through the mail each day AND because most Express shipments go to businesses, not private residences.
3) At the very least, offer a premium shipping service that takes care of #1. I'd be more than willing to pay extra to make sure my order gets to me safely!
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wow 14 pages of info on how to beat the beagles.. lmao
So you beat the beagle?
Now what???
I think this thread title should be changed to DOMESTIC Shipping Standards -its time for change.
Frustrating to read this shit when I cant even land 2 (2) fucking cannabis seeds sent beagle proof and stealth amongst a shitload of other stuff amongst a few of us.
The sooner people realise that LUCK is 95% of you actually getting your OS drugs and the other 5% is ****insert dog proof packaging here***.the sooner we all can just move onto more important things like... ignoring BS packaging posts.
Shipping internationally...Nobody ever talks about the luck here.
Lucky your package wasnt the 10 out of the 1000 that got pulled for a random screening.
Lucky your oz of weed in "dog proof packaging" was going through the xray at the exact time the customs officer looked down at his watch to see if it was time to knock off.
Lucky your "dog proof packaging' didnt go on to be xrayed.
Lucky your package didnt come from like 95% of the vendors on here( we have used) working from their bedrooms after mummy called
'Lights out"... printing out those labels and sticking them on the envelope that just screams 'LOOK AT ME I HAVE DRUGS IN ME'
Lucky this government is not as worried as the next. Because the other just might throw some capitol funding into better equipment to really fuck with incoming parcels.
Lucky the beagle had a cold today.
Lucky that cunt at Brisbane customs and his pals at the sorting centre who looks at an envelope... its got a nice printed label on it from one of those label makers. It is addressed to a residence. He wonders why something in the envelope could not be emailed. Surely it is not a card or letter from family or a friend because it would be handwritten. He gets suspicious because he has seen it 1000 times before.
He opens it... HE SCORES... a fucking 8ball. He finds another letter it looks suspicious too.. He opens it..." Fuckin junk mail WTF sends OS junkmail these days"... tosses it in the bin. Emails junk mail company to stop sending junk in the mail. Splits the 8 ball up with his crew at the sorting centre
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It's all a 'crapshoot' in the end.
This is true.
I've done some high-stakes transactions, though I do my best to keep it "personal use" amounts. If you're stocking up for that month.
I must say certain US to US vendors amaze me at their carelessness. I do realize the ones who ship with such care, it could go to any country, and look legit.
I'm talking about those 'once in a while' orders, where I'm between my Dutch speed orders, and need something to "hold me over' - enter domestic overpriced Adderall.
I've gotten a 5 pill 'pack' - nothing more than a tiny druggie bag, in one piece of printer paper in a regular business envelope.
A BIG bump in the middle. - I walk in from the mailbox saying to myself "Jesus Christ, don't they see how obvious this is ?"
Then again, I have kids, and they've gotten keychains, even little figurines of their favorite anime characters, from overseas, and you feel the package and think "How the hell did customs not open this?"
When it's really something you shouldn't be sending in the mail, like Rx drugs, you should expect a level of stealth, and not assume, that the Post or LE 'assume' it's just a toy.
Those who are lazy in their stealth methods, cause the rest of us to pay dearly.
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all my products are sufficiently packaged and arriving in 2-4 days on average. I am now in a position to never visit the post office ever again while still having my packages arrive in the same time period.
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I only ship usa to usa. do we really need to worry about dogs if it's just domestic and well packaged?
I just had a domestic apparently in the system for 2 weeks. At that point i would soooo much prefer to know that it was in a MBB, so yes please.
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Maybe I'm a bit paranoid and have nothing to worry about but...it freaked me out...I'm really not happy with the vendor either about this...although the tear was not there fault why wouldn't they tape the sides like every other fucking weed vendor?
Probably because taped sides are a flag.
Some of the complaints in this thread seem somewhat unfounded to me. Standard stealth shipping has always been printed labels, flat as possible / small as possible container, vacuum sealed product (sometimes in two or three bags). I am sure it can be improved upon some, most notably with less permeable vacuum seal bags, but if you are complaining about getting a few grams of powder shipped to you vacuum sealed between two sheets of paper in a priority mail envelope, you are really setting a higher standard than has ever been the the case. I have gotten international packages that consisted of powder dumped into heavily taped cardboard envelopes , that sounded like baby rattles when shaken , from the powder bouncing around all over the damn place. That is horrible shipping. Vacuum sealed flat in an inconspicuous envelope between two sheets of paper? What more could you really ask for other than that better bags are used perhaps?
I note someone in this thread mentioned he thinks his package was seized because it was express shipped. This is very possible, in my experience I have seen far more express packages intercepted than anything else. Especially international overnight shipped packages are inspected in high percentages I think. Fast shipping is also a known flag for drug packages, the faster the shipping method is the more likely LE are to think the package is suspect and inspect it. Slower shipping has problems as well, like being in the mail system for longer, but I am actually pretty positive that slower shipping is less likely to lead to an interception. Maybe somewhere in the middle is best :), but overnight definitely is the worst.
Moisture barrier bags look like they all have metal foil on them. In general I would avoid shipping anything with metal foil on it if it can be avoided, I suspect packages containing metal are more likely to be inspected actually. I will need to read the thread about vacuum sealed bags first I suppose, but my initial thought is certainly that something creating a vacuum is far less likely to have scent permeate it than something without a vacuum. I also recall there was another vacuum sealing thread where someone with a drug dog tested several packages with different sorts of drugs, and the time spans for detectable permeation ranged from many hours to days, increasing substantially with each added layer of vacuum bag. Another technique I have heard people suggest is vacuum sealing the product in one bag, filling another vacuum seal bag with activated charcoal and then vacuum sealing it around the first bag. I have no idea if this is effective at preventing scent from permeating through all the layers or not, but I am positive it is effective at making the package weigh more. The more a package weighs the more likely it is to be inspected, weight is actually one of the most likely things to get a package selected for inspection. They are more interested in stopping big shipments of drugs than personal use amounts, and big shipments of drugs weigh more so of course they are going to be more likely to inspect a package if it weighs more. This makes me apprehensive about doing anything that will substantially increase the weight of a package, unless it is already quite heavy I suppose. Also, I have read in several profiling papers on drug dealers that the most sophisticated dealers vacuum seal their packages to prevent detection, it seems that if the most elite drug trafficking groups are using vacuum sealing that it is a legitimate technique, I have never heard of them using foil bags but I do have citations that they utilize mathematical / physics formulas to determine how long it will take for the scent to permeate their bags, to make sure their product is undetectable for the entire time it is in transit.
So pretty much I think we should take the utmost caution when it comes to changing standard procedure for packaging things. Is there room for improvement? Certainly. There are all kinds of cool techniques as well, for example making pottery out of ketamine and then smashing it to bits and extracting it on the other end. People have done this with coke and they were busted because dogs could smell it , but for ketamine it may be a great way to move bulk. Vendors should really take care to change up their shipping methods somewhat as well, because they want to avoid being profiled. It is also really important for bothvendor and customer to understand the intelligence risk of checking tracking with proxy services, and weigh it against the benefits, and think of solutions that will work for them (checking tracking from home without a proxy is generally a BAD idea, but imo it is generally a bad idea to get shit sent to your house in the first place. Checking tracking with Tor from home on a package that is being sent to your home, is quite likely more dangerous than checking tracking without Tor on a package that is being sent to your home). Also a worry is that vendors use tracking stickers with sequential labels, and that an intercept of a single package sent out could lead to sequential serial numbers being flagged as well.
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Maybe I'm a bit paranoid and have nothing to worry about but...it freaked me out...I'm really not happy with the vendor either about this...although the tear was not there fault why wouldn't they tape the sides like every other fucking weed vendor?
Probably because taped sides are a flag.
Some of the complaints in this thread seem somewhat unfounded to me. Standard stealth shipping has always been printed labels, flat as possible / small as possible container, vacuum sealed product (sometimes in two or three bags). I am sure it can be improved upon some, most notably with less permeable vacuum seal bags, but if you are complaining about getting a few grams of powder shipped to you vacuum sealed between two sheets of paper in a priority mail envelope, you are really setting a higher standard than has ever been the the case. I have gotten international packages that consisted of powder dumped into heavily taped cardboard envelopes , that sounded like baby rattles when shaken , from the powder bouncing around all over the damn place. That is horrible shipping. Vacuum sealed flat in an inconspicuous envelope between two sheets of paper? What more could you really ask for other than that better bags are used perhaps?
I note someone in this thread mentioned he thinks his package was seized because it was express shipped. This is very possible, in my experience I have seen far more express packages intercepted than anything else. Especially international overnight shipped packages are inspected in high percentages I think. Fast shipping is also a known flag for drug packages, the faster the shipping method is the more likely LE are to think the package is suspect and inspect it. Slower shipping has problems as well, like being in the mail system for longer, but I am actually pretty positive that slower shipping is less likely to lead to an interception. Maybe somewhere in the middle is best :), but overnight definitely is the worst.
Moisture barrier bags look like they all have metal foil on them. In general I would avoid shipping anything with metal foil on it if it can be avoided, I suspect packages containing metal are more likely to be inspected actually. I will need to read the thread about vacuum sealed bags first I suppose, but my initial thought is certainly that something creating a vacuum is far less likely to have scent permeate it than something without a vacuum. I also recall there was another vacuum sealing thread where someone with a drug dog tested several packages with different sorts of drugs, and the time spans for detectable permeation ranged from many hours to days, increasing substantially with each added layer of vacuum bag. Another technique I have heard people suggest is vacuum sealing the product in one bag, filling another vacuum seal bag with activated charcoal and then vacuum sealing it around the first bag. I have no idea if this is effective at preventing scent from permeating through all the layers or not, but I am positive it is effective at making the package weigh more. The more a package weighs the more likely it is to be inspected, weight is actually one of the most likely things to get a package selected for inspection. They are more interested in stopping big shipments of drugs than personal use amounts, and big shipments of drugs weigh more so of course they are going to be more likely to inspect a package if it weighs more. This makes me apprehensive about doing anything that will substantially increase the weight of a package, unless it is already quite heavy I suppose. Also, I have read in several profiling papers on drug dealers that the most sophisticated dealers vacuum seal their packages to prevent detection, it seems that if the most elite drug trafficking groups are using vacuum sealing that it is a legitimate technique, I have never heard of them using foil bags but I do have citations that they utilize mathematical / physics formulas to determine how long it will take for the scent to permeate their bags, to make sure their product is undetectable for the entire time it is in transit.
So pretty much I think we should take the utmost caution when it comes to changing standard procedure for packaging things. Is there room for improvement? Certainly. There are all kinds of cool techniques as well, for example making pottery out of ketamine and then smashing it to bits and extracting it on the other end. People have done this with coke and they were busted because dogs could smell it , but for ketamine it may be a great way to move bulk. Vendors should really take care to change up their shipping methods somewhat as well, because they want to avoid being profiled. It is also really important for bothvendor and customer to understand the intelligence risk of checking tracking with proxy services, and weigh it against the benefits, and think of solutions that will work for them (checking tracking from home without a proxy is generally a BAD idea, but imo it is generally a bad idea to get shit sent to your house in the first place. Checking tracking with Tor from home on a package that is being sent to your home, is quite likely more dangerous than checking tracking without Tor on a package that is being sent to your home). Also a worry is that vendors use tracking stickers with sequential labels, and that an intercept of a single package sent out could lead to sequential serial numbers being flagged as well.
I completely agree with you about the weight of the package. It may sound ideal to package the drugs so that even if customs were to open the package, they wouldn't find them. But this would increase the weight significantly and, in my opinion, actually make the package more likely to be inspected. I would rather not risk it being inspected in the first place.
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Maybe I'm a bit paranoid and have nothing to worry about but...it freaked me out...I'm really not happy with the vendor either about this...although the tear was not there fault why wouldn't they tape the sides like every other fucking weed vendor?
Probably because taped sides are a flag.
Some of the complaints in this thread seem somewhat unfounded to me. Standard stealth shipping has always been printed labels, flat as possible / small as possible container, vacuum sealed product (sometimes in two or three bags). I am sure it can be improved upon some, most notably with less permeable vacuum seal bags, but if you are complaining about getting a few grams of powder shipped to you vacuum sealed between two sheets of paper in a priority mail envelope, you are really setting a higher standard than has ever been the the case. I have gotten international packages that consisted of powder dumped into heavily taped cardboard envelopes , that sounded like baby rattles when shaken , from the powder bouncing around all over the damn place. That is horrible shipping. Vacuum sealed flat in an inconspicuous envelope between two sheets of paper? What more could you really ask for other than that better bags are used perhaps?
I note someone in this thread mentioned he thinks his package was seized because it was express shipped. This is very possible, in my experience I have seen far more express packages intercepted than anything else. Especially international overnight shipped packages are inspected in high percentages I think. Fast shipping is also a known flag for drug packages, the faster the shipping method is the more likely LE are to think the package is suspect and inspect it. Slower shipping has problems as well, like being in the mail system for longer, but I am actually pretty positive that slower shipping is less likely to lead to an interception. Maybe somewhere in the middle is best :), but overnight definitely is the worst.
Moisture barrier bags look like they all have metal foil on them. In general I would avoid shipping anything with metal foil on it if it can be avoided, I suspect packages containing metal are more likely to be inspected actually. I will need to read the thread about vacuum sealed bags first I suppose, but my initial thought is certainly that something creating a vacuum is far less likely to have scent permeate it than something without a vacuum. I also recall there was another vacuum sealing thread where someone with a drug dog tested several packages with different sorts of drugs, and the time spans for detectable permeation ranged from many hours to days, increasing substantially with each added layer of vacuum bag. Another technique I have heard people suggest is vacuum sealing the product in one bag, filling another vacuum seal bag with activated charcoal and then vacuum sealing it around the first bag. I have no idea if this is effective at preventing scent from permeating through all the layers or not, but I am positive it is effective at making the package weigh more. The more a package weighs the more likely it is to be inspected, weight is actually one of the most likely things to get a package selected for inspection. They are more interested in stopping big shipments of drugs than personal use amounts, and big shipments of drugs weigh more so of course they are going to be more likely to inspect a package if it weighs more. This makes me apprehensive about doing anything that will substantially increase the weight of a package, unless it is already quite heavy I suppose. Also, I have read in several profiling papers on drug dealers that the most sophisticated dealers vacuum seal their packages to prevent detection, it seems that if the most elite drug trafficking groups are using vacuum sealing that it is a legitimate technique, I have never heard of them using foil bags but I do have citations that they utilize mathematical / physics formulas to determine how long it will take for the scent to permeate their bags, to make sure their product is undetectable for the entire time it is in transit.
So pretty much I think we should take the utmost caution when it comes to changing standard procedure for packaging things. Is there room for improvement? Certainly. There are all kinds of cool techniques as well, for example making pottery out of ketamine and then smashing it to bits and extracting it on the other end. People have done this with coke and they were busted because dogs could smell it , but for ketamine it may be a great way to move bulk. Vendors should really take care to change up their shipping methods somewhat as well, because they want to avoid being profiled. It is also really important for bothvendor and customer to understand the intelligence risk of checking tracking with proxy services, and weigh it against the benefits, and think of solutions that will work for them (checking tracking from home without a proxy is generally a BAD idea, but imo it is generally a bad idea to get shit sent to your house in the first place. Checking tracking with Tor from home on a package that is being sent to your home, is quite likely more dangerous than checking tracking without Tor on a package that is being sent to your home). Also a worry is that vendors use tracking stickers with sequential labels, and that an intercept of a single package sent out could lead to sequential serial numbers being flagged as well.
You should probably go and read the other threads on MBB, mylar and heat seal foil before posting mate, no offense but an informed opinion is always better than a subjective one.
As you correctly stated though the best stealth is simple, thin and lightweight so if you are ordering smallish quantities of powders you want the packaging to draw the least amount of attention and have the layering have the lowest MVTR as possible, something you only get with a non permeable layer like a MBB. You could try and use 3 layers of vac seal but why make it thicker, more bulky for the sake of using an inferior material when you can sling the zip lock baggy into an MBB or heat seal foil bag and have an MVTR of 0.00002.
If the envelope is singled out for extra attention e.g. scanner / x-ray then its gone anyway so your best chances are to avoid being singled out in the first place and that normally only ever happens when a dog reacts to it.
Vac seal is outdated and doesn't work as effectively as other methods, that is fact not fud.
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I had a vendor message me nearly 2 weeks ago regarding his use of the new MBB's.
He had 2 packages inspected by customs..they were slightly opened for whatever they like to stick in there.
They were allowed to pass because mmb's were used and the inside of the envelope was clean. ;)
Was great news. 8)
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I only ship usa to usa. do we really need to worry about dogs if it's just domestic and well packaged?
1) MBBs are cheap, maybe even cheaper than plastic for vacuum sealing. Easy to heat seal. It gives you a competitive advantage.
2) Yes. I think this thread mentions that dogs occasionally scan for drugs: dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=19010.0
Even without random scanning, if they suspect one of your packages then they'll put it in front of a dog. If the dog reacts then they can get a warrant.
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I had made three posts previously, although now after having done some research on the matter over the past two hours, I agree with samesamebutdifferent that MBB is the way to go. However, I would also want to make sure that vacuum sealing is still being used. This could be done either via vacuum sealing with a plastic bag and then heat sealing it inside a MBB, or it could be done by using MBB that are also vacuum sealable. Good info samesamebutdifferent :).
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I don't find a direct correlation, you're correct, but there's a fair bit out there on coatings, SiOx for example.
Aroma barrier itself: nylon or EvOH layer.
The 3M bags referenced by FarmerBob do have a nylon layer. (also recommend sealing temp of 300-400F, incidentally, for the 3000s - I saw somewhere that a lower temp hair straightener is being used successfully, just a heads up.)
Wine-in-a-bag/box: lots of information on this, tons in food service/storage, same with fish. I've been playing with these at home, they're almost as available as other food service bags.
Standard caveat: All articles are PDF, esoteric, clearweb, so use appropriate precautions. They're also all too long to copy-paste full text.
hxxp://www.eval.eu/media/36919/ea%20-%20technical%20bulletin%20no%20190.pdf
FLAVOR AND AROMA BARRIER PROPERTIES OF EVAL® RESINS
This is industry sponsored, so bias alert.
See tables 4, 5, etc.
hxxp://www.drugswell.com/winow/+%20new11/+%20Food%20Storage%20Stability/2646ch10.pdf
Factors affecting permeation, sorption, and migration processes in package–product systems
With respect to the glass transition temperature of barrier polymer structures, DeLassus reported that glassy polymers have very low diffusion coefficients for flavor, aroma, and solvent molecules at low concentrations. Typically, these values are too low to measure by standard analytical procedures. The diffusion coefficient determines the dynamics of the permeation process and thus the time to reach steady state, which accounts for glassy polymers exhibiting high barrier characteristics to organic permeants. Polyolefins, being well above their glass transition temperature, are nonglassy polymers and have high diffusion coefficients for organic permeants, and steady-state permeation is established quickly in such structures.
Several more of these I'm sorting through.
Vacuum:
I don't think I see the bonus to vacuum sealing as opposed to an appropriate width/quality of seal, especially if the bag isn't intended for vacuum per se. I can see the merit to vac-packing (if no super sharp edges) inside an exterior bag to get surface area reduced, maybe. More surface area is not better, as a rule, it's a bigger scent path, but the goal here is to reduce permeability so much that it's a minimal to non-issue.
I also could see merit to packing in a second/washed layer, period, to reduce transfer to the bag, not to mention possible migration from bag to substance.
Vacuum packing for QA to reduce oxygen damage, similar to coffee/wine vs the problem of crushing buds, is something I don't know about... ask the Home Ec department. There are other ways to create an anoxic environment, I guess.
What am I missing? Drawing more aromatic air OUT over the bag = not better, it's more to wash off. And bag will expand slightly with pressure changes, but should be able to accommodate the relatively minor stress.
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i wish more vendors would use ur techniques! its scary not only for the customer, but also for the vendor! cause not all people can keep their mouths shut when being pressed by the police!
i think there should be an R&D section here on SR forums specifically for shipping packages!
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i wish more vendors would use ur techniques! its scary not only for the customer, but also for the vendor! cause not all people can keep their mouths shut when being pressed by the police!
i think there should be an R&D section here on SR forums specifically for shipping packages!
No, it is only scary for the buyer unfortunately. If it was scary for the vendor they would all have changed. Did you forget where we are? I mean sure they don't want their packages getting seized, but any worth their salt will be changing it periodically anyway as LE can always make orders.
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i wish more vendors would use ur techniques! its scary not only for the customer, but also for the vendor! cause not all people can keep their mouths shut when being pressed by the police!
i think there should be an R&D section here on SR forums specifically for shipping packages!
No, it is only scary for the buyer unfortunately. If it was scary for the vendor they would all have changed. Did you forget where we are? I mean sure they don't want their packages getting seized, but any worth their salt will be changing it periodically anyway as LE can always make orders.
Hey guys! If it is so scary ordering from vendors who don't take enough precautions, start a thread on whom to avoid buying from, & quit buying from those vendors! Pretty simple!
NCK
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jackblue, xxx, nck, all expert shippers.
i don't think humboltfinest had any problems, ever. He didn't use mylar when i first started using him, but i never had a problem, and that guy puts out some packages; still I don't see myself ordering much from vendors who don't use proper bags now, especially weed.
But Damn.. Just legalize it. We can't advance as a human race with prohibition. They treat us like criminals, but they're the ones acting out in violence against us.
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I just received one of the poorest packages yet. From a really well known vendor as well. The sides of the envelope was torn open - I glance inside and you can see the vacuum sealed package (only sealed once and with the old material), fuck me I can smell the product! It wasn't stuck to the pages of paper either, simply shake the mail and it moves about.
No return to sender message.
This really is poor. I have no idea how this got through the system at all.
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Who's the vendor?
Did you ask them to use MMB's?
Thats really bad....message the vendor and request better packaging next time, if you decide to order again that is.. ;)
Thats lame damn... O/S order yeah? ???
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I messaged several domestic MDMA vendors and asked if they did or would consider using MBBs. I get a sense that customers aren't messaging and asking vendors to use MBBs. If customers did so then maybe the vendors would spend the $0.20 per MBB.
Some of the responses:
DomesticDude: "pgp address only sorry" (doesn't it take like 10 seconds to copy/paste/decrypt?)
Insta Grams: "Appreciate the tip, but we have a system setup and in place that seems to be working fine."
KarmaPharm: Interested in using MBBs, but currently taking a break anyway.
Tryptonite: Read message, didn't respond.
hypnotiqstatez77: Read message, didn't respond.
NewAmerica: Read message, didn't respond.
xanax bar: Read message, didn't respond.
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There are quite a few vendors jumping on board now with the MMB's.
Dont know why you get that feeling, every single vendor i have gone to order from, i mention the MMB's, if they dont want to use them, then i find someone who will.
I message Cocaine Flakes and said will you use them. He ignored me.
Then on the coke review thread, i said again because of his annoying matrix type posts, and said if you wont use the mmb's, then you wont get much business, and this vendor is from the NL, so you would think he would listen right? He obviously wasnt getting many orders...and guess what, he writes a post about how he can purchase the mmb's... ??? The buyers out number the vendors by a staggering amount, if they wont listen or move with the times....they will have no choice but to join or close shop. Its a black market trade, seriously if vendors dont use mmb's, then they dont care about whether your order makes it or not.
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There are quite a few vendors jumping on board now with the MMB's.
Dont know why you get that feeling, every single vendor i have gone to order from, i mention the MMB's, if they dont want to use them, then i find someone who will.
I message Cocaine Flakes and said will you use them. He ignored me.
Then on the coke review thread, i said again because of his annoying matrix type posts, and said if you wont use the mmb's, then you wont get much business, and this vendor is from the NL, so you would think he would listen right? He obviously wasnt getting many orders...and guess what, he writes a post about how he can purchase the mmb's... ??? The buyers out number the vendors by a staggering amount, if they wont listen or move with the times....they will have no choice but to join or close shop. Its a black market trade, seriously if vendors dont use mmb's, then they dont care about whether your order makes it or not.
Usually when people fail to make a change it is because of a few things:
1. Lack of demand
2. Cost prohibitive
3. Disrupts already successful systems
4. Ignorance
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Who's the vendor?
Did you ask them to use MMB's?
Thats really bad....message the vendor and request better packaging next time, if you decide to order again that is.. ;)
Thats lame damn... O/S order yeah? ???
Was Limetless. He's been having some major problems lately and gave the responsibility of managing packaging and shipping to someone else. He's reassured me that he's gotten rid of them and is taking over like he use to.
Yep was an O/S order.
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I still wouldnt order from him, to think he left some halfwit pack your shit...and to think it made it.
Something like that causes someone to lose a drop, so its good your made it.
Something about that vendor i have never quite liked...UK vendors....no i wont say it.......i wouldnt give him repeat business. Change feedback rating to 4/5 for the lame packaging and mention it on the feedback. ;)
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+1 OP
I'll take the pledge. Is mylar the stuff to use? Sorry I'm slammed with an overflowing caseload and wish I had the time to read the whole thread. I figure it's better to change sooner rather than later. If anyone wants to PM me where to get the shipping materials I will gladly change my shipping protocol.
Keep up the great work!
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+1 OP
I'll take the pledge. Is mylar the stuff to use? Sorry I'm slammed with an overflowing caseload and wish I had the time to read the whole thread. I figure it's better to change sooner rather than later. If anyone wants to PM me where to get the shipping materials I will gladly change my shipping protocol.
Keep up the great work!
Awesome attitude mate. +1
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+1 OP
I'll take the pledge. Is mylar the stuff to use? Sorry I'm slammed with an overflowing caseload and wish I had the time to read the whole thread. I figure it's better to change sooner rather than later. If anyone wants to PM me where to get the shipping materials I will gladly change my shipping protocol.
Keep up the great work!
+1 Advocate. ;)
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I just received one of the poorest packages yet. From a really well known vendor as well. The sides of the envelope was torn open - I glance inside and you can see the vacuum sealed package (only sealed once and with the old material), fuck me I can smell the product! It wasn't stuck to the pages of paper either, simply shake the mail and it moves about.
No return to sender message.
This really is poor. I have no idea how this got through the system at all.
Who's the vendor?
Did you ask them to use MMB's?
Thats really bad....message the vendor and request better packaging next time, if you decide to order again that is.. ;)
Thats lame damn... O/S order yeah? ???
Was Limetless. He's been having some major problems lately and gave the responsibility of managing packaging and shipping to someone else. He's reassured me that he's gotten rid of them and is taking over like he use to.
Yep was an O/S order.
I also received a torn package from limetless. I messaged him and he said, "don't worry we've improved stealth."
The next order/package was just like the first only more torn AND the seal wasn't even closed. Oh and it weighed 40g instead of 100g. I messages limetless about being shorted and he said I was full of shit.
I don't know wtf is wrong with him. Too much on the cocaine maybe. He doesn't have his shit in order and just assumed everyone is out to fuck him. His bulk customers often wait for months lately before finally getting their packs and they are the lucky ones.
But he's still taking orders!
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Foil is the preferred layer, Mylar would be the next best, but both are a massive improvement over simple plastics.
I'll PM you a link to the best non-permeable bags available, and they're going for about $8 per 100 (if you're in the US)
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I'm a vendor of party stuff and i will be totally honest here i just dont have the know how to ship overseas. I only ship UK to UK and ive tried to get my letters to look like its like any other normal letter in the post. But i do have to sweat waiting on my packages to arrive from NL sometimes its so bad it gets me angry very angry. But the day i come across a vendor from NL who seems to take great care i will stick with them and im willing to pay the bit more
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+1 OP
I'll take the pledge. Is mylar the stuff to use? Sorry I'm slammed with an overflowing caseload and wish I had the time to read the whole thread. I figure it's better to change sooner rather than later. If anyone wants to PM me where to get the shipping materials I will gladly change my shipping protocol.
Keep up the great work!
Check out the sticky started by Samesamebutdifferent, here in the Shipping -forum. He/she updates a list in the OP of vendors who are using "stealth 2.0" (MBB). When you have your shit together, post there and let SSDB know it, ans you'll be added to the OP.
Good publicity, should help bring in more customers.
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+1 OP
I'll take the pledge. Is mylar the stuff to use? Sorry I'm slammed with an overflowing caseload and wish I had the time to read the whole thread. I figure it's better to change sooner rather than later. If anyone wants to PM me where to get the shipping materials I will gladly change my shipping protocol.
Keep up the great work!
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=119458.0
Basically you want the lowest MVTR possible, MBB's offer that but you can get different grades off MBB so best you do some research and decide what works best for you.
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I just received one of the poorest packages yet. From a really well known vendor as well. The sides of the envelope was torn open - I glance inside and you can see the vacuum sealed package (only sealed once and with the old material), fuck me I can smell the product! It wasn't stuck to the pages of paper either, simply shake the mail and it moves about.
No return to sender message.
This really is poor. I have no idea how this got through the system at all.
What kind of return to sender message is referred to here?
I have been considering adding a message to the people who might recieve a package if it gets RTS'd.
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I messaged several domestic MDMA vendors and asked if they did or would consider using MBBs. I get a sense that customers aren't messaging and asking vendors to use MBBs. If customers did so then maybe the vendors would spend the $0.20 per MBB.
Some of the responses:
DomesticDude: "pgp address only sorry" (doesn't it take like 10 seconds to copy/paste/decrypt?)
Insta Grams: "Appreciate the tip, but we have a system setup and in place that seems to be working fine."
KarmaPharm: Interested in using MBBs, but currently taking a break anyway.
Tryptonite: Read message, didn't respond.
hypnotiqstatez77: Read message, didn't respond.
NewAmerica: Read message, didn't respond.
xanax bar: Read message, didn't respond.
I sell MDMA domestically in the US and I use MBBs in addition to vac-sealing. Furthermore, I also take other precautions to stealth the package so that it looks completely benign. You can check out my reviews on my review thread and on my vendor profile (links in sig below).
Definitely don't understand why more vendors don't use MBBs. It's such a small additional cost to ensure things get through without arousing suspicions.
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a Couple of Questions:
Can Mylar set off metal detection? Will it react with any specific compounds?
Also,For your customer's protection do you print up any false return addresses stickers/ stamps? It would seem to me that a package with no return add. would cause suspicion in of itself.
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some suppliers, they scare me
I ordered 12 products from 5 different sellers, all with little stealth
only use a vacuum ,never mylar,easily detectable to the touch
the only real risk is for the client, so please adapt to the times (2013) and do a professional job,we have to consider that more envelopes stop, more controls are activated
I would like to be a customer for a long time...
I must add that there are some sellers really competent
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRo2pn1MLTU go to minute 3:44
watch the whole series ;)
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Outisde of vac seal and mylar bags, I believe we are forgetting one thing: espionage.
When it is a product that is not readily detectable by smell or on the list of substances to look for, packing these things inside of other legit products also is a very, very, very stealthy idea!
In fact, EVERY VENDOR ON THE ROAD, should watch this special I caught last week. I meant to post it IMMEDIATELY, but had work to do!
In short, it is a special on DEA working with Colombian airport customs. I looked at it like this, you are going to see THE best and THE brightest and THE latest shipping methods on here, so take notes VENDORS!
Clearnet Warning:http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/episodes/drug-mules/
And by the way, I was here when the thread first started. For everything to hinge on shipping, I am very, very concerned on why this thread has not grown faster than this. It really is a shame and shows there is much improvement to be made when it comes to awareness of capital longevity and the safety of customers.
I messaged several domestic MDMA vendors and asked if they did or would consider using MBBs. I get a sense that customers aren't messaging and asking vendors to use MBBs. If customers did so then maybe the vendors would spend the $0.20 per MBB.
Some of the responses:
DomesticDude: "pgp address only sorry" (doesn't it take like 10 seconds to copy/paste/decrypt?)
Insta Grams: "Appreciate the tip, but we have a system setup and in place that seems to be working fine."
KarmaPharm: Interested in using MBBs, but currently taking a break anyway.
Tryptonite: Read message, didn't respond.
hypnotiqstatez77: Read message, didn't respond.
NewAmerica: Read message, didn't respond.
xanax bar: Read message, didn't respond.
This type of ambivalence is what gets people fired in corporate and killed on the black market.
They will learn, by force or by choice, but they will learn.
I'm a vendor of party stuff and i will be totally honest here i just dont have the know how to ship overseas. I only ship UK to UK and ive tried to get my letters to look like its like any other normal letter in the post. But i do have to sweat waiting on my packages to arrive from NL sometimes its so bad it gets me angry very angry. But the day i come across a vendor from NL who seems to take great care i will stick with them and im willing to pay the bit more
Reach out to cloudsurfer. BAR NONE, best stealth I've gotten from the Netherlands.
Let me put it this way, I don't shop in the Netherlands, but I shop with Cloudsurfer.
That should let you know how good it is.
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lol @ domestic dudes response
"DomesticDude: "pgp address only sorry" "
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRo2pn1MLTU go to minute 3:44
watch the whole series ;)
Thanks for the link ;)
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Outisde of vac seal and mylar bags, I believe we are forgetting one thing: espionage.
When it is a product that is not readily detectable by smell or on the list of substances to look for, packing these things inside of other legit products also is a very, very, very stealthy idea!
In fact, EVERY VENDOR ON THE ROAD, should watch this special I caught last week. I meant to post it IMMEDIATELY, but had work to do!
In short, it is a special on DEA working with Colombian airport customs. I looked at it like this, you are going to see THE best and THE brightest and THE latest shipping methods on here, so take notes VENDORS!
Clearnet Warning:http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/episodes/drug-mules/
And by the way, I was here when the thread first started. For everything to hinge on shipping, I am very, very concerned on why this thread has not grown faster than this. It really is a shame and shows there is much improvement to be made when it comes to awareness of capital longevity and the safety of customers.
I messaged several domestic MDMA vendors and asked if they did or would consider using MBBs. I get a sense that customers aren't messaging and asking vendors to use MBBs. If customers did so then maybe the vendors would spend the $0.20 per MBB.
Some of the responses:
DomesticDude: "pgp address only sorry" (doesn't it take like 10 seconds to copy/paste/decrypt?)
Insta Grams: "Appreciate the tip, but we have a system setup and in place that seems to be working fine."
KarmaPharm: Interested in using MBBs, but currently taking a break anyway.
Tryptonite: Read message, didn't respond.
hypnotiqstatez77: Read message, didn't respond.
NewAmerica: Read message, didn't respond.
xanax bar: Read message, didn't respond.
This type of ambivalence is what gets people fired in corporate and killed on the black market.
They will learn, by force or by choice, but they will learn.
I'm a vendor of party stuff and i will be totally honest here i just dont have the know how to ship overseas. I only ship UK to UK and ive tried to get my letters to look like its like any other normal letter in the post. But i do have to sweat waiting on my packages to arrive from NL sometimes its so bad it gets me angry very angry. But the day i come across a vendor from NL who seems to take great care i will stick with them and im willing to pay the bit more
Reach out to cloudsurfer. BAR NONE, best stealth I've gotten from the Netherlands.
Let me put it this way, I don't shop in the Netherlands, but I shop with Cloudsurfer.
That should let you know how good it is.
Have a look at the list of vendors on the OP in the sticky I created in shipping, it is growing daily with new vendors changing up to MBB so very encouraging especially when you consider the campaign to change things really only got going early this year.
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Well DutchTrade is supposedly coming back today/tomorrow with MBBs! +1 to him for taking our feedback seriously and taking the leap forward.
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Where can you get these from? Not interested in purchasing MBB from SR
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Good information! Let's not wait until their is a problem to keep changing for the better.
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We're new on the Road but have only used MMB's since day 1. It's about protecting the buyer, not ourselves 8).
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Where can you get these from? Not interested in purchasing MBB from SR
They are not hard to find. "3M Dri-Shield 2000" or higher are the good brand name ones I am aware of. QSource and Uline have been mentioned. Food storage suppliers may be good? Head shops and grower supply stores might carry em if you talk em into it? Best to find em on your own so we don't all go to the same places at once. I'd say it is good to buy in person (over the counter) if you can find em close enough. I think Cabela's may have some decent seal-a-meal gadgets. I hear QSource's blue "3M" impulse sealers are the exact same as the much cheaper blue "ULine" ones.
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We're new on the Road but have only used MMB's since day 1. It's about protecting the buyer, not ourselves 8).
Great to see another vendor coming on board, post in the sticky thread and I'll add you to the OP listing.
+1
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I've always used MBBs. Before becoming a vendor, I read through the forums, and took FarmerBob's packaging advice to heart. I would like to abandon vacuum sealing entirely, because I don't think it's very useful, it's enormously time consuming, and it crushes bud, but customers demand it.
There's a game that I play with my dog, where I take a tasty bit of meat, package it like I would a product, and hide it around the house. Then I see how long it takes him to find it. He's no drug dog, but he is a meat dog. I don't know whether or not it's really comparable, but it's fun and it gives me some relative idea about the permeability of my packaging. For instance, while I don't know how long it would take a drug dog to find bud packaged this way, my dog will find a piece of roasted chicken that's been vacuum sealed in about 5 minutes. Add an MBB and it'll take him a few days. So I'm pretty sure that MBBs are better.
Also, I have to say, that for bud, I don't think that concealment within other items is very realistic. People already complain like crazy about the prices, and my profit margins aren't all that high. To add in extra-item concealment would really increase prices, once you factor in sourcing the additional items, in terms of time and money, and then the additional packaging time. But I don't ship bulk, or overseas, and you would have to get through three layers, after breaking the envelope, to find anything illicit in one of my packages, so I also don't think it's particularly necessary.
If customers would get over their love of vacuum sealing, I could invest in other packaging measures. But I could triple MBB my shit, and if it's not vacuum sealed, I guarantee that my ratings would crash.
I'm watching this thread, and would love any feedback on my thoughts, or my packaging, if anyone here has ordered from me.
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Thanks for this post, you can expect our stealth to strive for these standards.
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it's not that people "demand vacuum sealing"..
it's the fact that those are ToS.. rules and regulations.. :)
stuff you agreed upon when becoming a Vendor of this beautiful Community. :)
completely understood on what you mean though, but, for your safety and ours..
vacuum sealing is key.. and it really isn't that time consuming...
even if you're individually sealing grams... it's not that big of a game..
i'd rather vacuum seal 3-4 layers.. rather than drive across the state with an ounce or two..
kills risk, saves lives...
:)
/thumbs
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it's not that people "demand vacuum sealing"..
it's the fact that those are ToS.. rules and regulations.. :)
stuff you agreed upon when becoming a Vendor of this beautiful Community. :)
Did I agree to use Vac. when I became a vendor? I guess I need a refresher on my agreement if so. Would surprise me a little to find out I did agree to that, specifically. I have been working to educate the buyers about my belief that it is not really needed for smell control. It has been stated in various shipping threads (maybe even this one) that vacuume does not usually help keep the smell in. There are good uses for it, though.
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it's not that people "demand vacuum sealing"..
it's the fact that those are ToS.. rules and regulations.. :)
stuff you agreed upon when becoming a Vendor of this beautiful Community. :)
Did I agree to use Vac. when I became a vendor? I guess I need a refresher on my agreement if so. Would surprise me a little to find out I did agree to that, specifically. I have been working to educate the buyers about my belief that it is not really needed for smell control. It has been stated in various shipping threads (maybe even this one) that vacuume does not usually help keep the smell in. There are good uses for it, though.
Fairly certain it's in the seller's guide, for drugs that have odors detectable by dogs it's required as a minimum. I think it has it's place, but ideally MBB should be used even for all domestic shipments.. Short of the next big thing in packaging material.
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it's not that people "demand vacuum sealing"..
it's the fact that those are ToS.. rules and regulations.. :)
stuff you agreed upon when becoming a Vendor of this beautiful Community. :)
Did I agree to use Vac. when I became a vendor? I guess I need a refresher on my agreement if so. Would surprise me a little to find out I did agree to that, specifically. I have been working to educate the buyers about my belief that it is not really needed for smell control. It has been stated in various shipping threads (maybe even this one) that vacuume does not usually help keep the smell in. There are good uses for it, though.
Fairly certain it's in the seller's guide, for drugs that have odors detectable by dogs it's required as a minimum. I think it has it's place, but ideally MBB should be used even for all domestic shipments.. Short of the next big thing in packaging material.
I use MBBs and I seal them very well. I'm just trying to get the word out that i believe the actual vacuume part of vacuume packing does not help us beat the dogs. And, MBBs are a challenge to get vacuume to work on.
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it's not that people "demand vacuum sealing"..
it's the fact that those are ToS.. rules and regulations.. :)
stuff you agreed upon when becoming a Vendor of this beautiful Community. :)
Did I agree to use Vac. when I became a vendor? I guess I need a refresher on my agreement if so. Would surprise me a little to find out I did agree to that, specifically. I have been working to educate the buyers about my belief that it is not really needed for smell control. It has been stated in various shipping threads (maybe even this one) that vacuume does not usually help keep the smell in. There are good uses for it, though.
Fairly certain it's in the seller's guide, for drugs that have odors detectable by dogs it's required as a minimum. I think it has it's place, but ideally MBB should be used even for all domestic shipments.. Short of the next big thing in packaging material.
It is in the seller's guide, and I do it. But it seems like a nonsensical requirement IF a seller is using better security options. I've gotten coke from SR in a single apple bag wrapped in a piece of paper, and of course I wish those vendors had vacuum sealed my product. But if a product arrives in a MBB, since that's more effective than vacuum sealing, I think it fulfills the spirit of the requirement. Perhaps the seller's guide should be updated to reflect that spirit, and specify vacuum sealing as the bare minimum standard for packaging.
For the record though, I've been a buyer here for a year and a half, and my overall experience is that, on average, packaging security, US to US, has improved quite a bit. I like to give newer vendors a shot, and some of them really amaze and amuse me with the creativity of their stealth packaging.
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it's not that people "demand vacuum sealing"..
it's the fact that those are ToS.. rules and regulations.. :)
stuff you agreed upon when becoming a Vendor of this beautiful Community. :)
Did I agree to use Vac. when I became a vendor? I guess I need a refresher on my agreement if so. Would surprise me a little to find out I did agree to that, specifically. I have been working to educate the buyers about my belief that it is not really needed for smell control. It has been stated in various shipping threads (maybe even this one) that vacuume does not usually help keep the smell in. There are good uses for it, though.
Fairly certain it's in the seller's guide, for drugs that have odors detectable by dogs it's required as a minimum. I think it has it's place, but ideally MBB should be used even for all domestic shipments.. Short of the next big thing in packaging material.
It is in the seller's guide, and I do it. But it seems like a nonsensical requirement IF a seller is using better security options. I've gotten coke from SR in a single apple bag wrapped in a piece of paper, and of course I wish those vendors had vacuum sealed my product. But if a product arrives in a MBB, since that's more effective than vacuum sealing, I think it fulfills the spirit of the requirement. Perhaps the seller's guide should be updated to reflect that spirit, and specify vacuum sealing as the bare minimum standard for packaging.
For the record though, I've been a buyer here for a year and a half, and my overall experience is that, on average, packaging security, US to US, has improved quite a bit. I like to give newer vendors a shot, and some of them really amaze and amuse me with the creativity of their stealth packaging.
(I'm not a seller, this is only my opinion after reading the thread and seeing this particular issue developing)
I have to question the power of a "you must do this as a seller" type rule like vacuum sealing. I mean, you can vac seal things wrong, too. Protection against whats inside is only as powerful as the structure of the bag being maintained around it. Too much pressure, and it doesn't even need to be a puncture visible. Edges, width/height, can all contribute to the issue. Not to mention the permeation of organics is not controlled by the vacuum, they exist with or without air. Human error is the greatest enemy to stealth - no matter what the restriction may be. When dealing with dogs, even if you have a molecule of THC on your shirt from hours earlier and it rubs off on the package, that can set off the alarms. It only takes a single, molecular scale mistake... and a dog will find it.
I would say, leave some air in the bags, and as the FINAL check before sending it off, do the same thing they do for every water-tight product on the market: submerge in water, squeeze. If you see bubbles, repack.
The science of organic materials (including scent driven ones) is a relatively active, and highly popular subject, especially in the food industry. For example, with meats that are to be stored/shipped, oxygen is the enemy (well, oxygen is almost everythings enemy, oxygen==oxidizing :)). If shipping is truly to be improved based on the mechanics of permeability, the structure (both the material and its stability before AND after packaging) are a LOT more important than the air pressure within the bag. Vacuum sealing is a construct of human prevention, it is not a protection against dogs.
That being said, the one reason I -do- like vacuum sealing is the removal of air reduces the total size of the required container, and greatly improves the carried ability to be flat in an envelope (and obviously, not burst if under weight of another package). Still, not at the cost of damaging the liner itself.
Personally, the keys to me are this: clean environment with no possibility of trace materials on any single layer. Materials should be non-permeable MBBs that are verified air-tight post sealing. The packaging should be reasonably fitting to the destination environment which it is to be shipped in (envelopes shouldn't have a buldging box look in the middle of them) and that packaging should not look like the cute attempt of an 8 year old to send a present. Labels should be printed with details all correct. If this is followed, the only reason I could see it being picked up, would be due to buyer error on the address (or an address already flagged). The more you look like the noise, the more like the noise you'll be treated.
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Hey, wow, good to see this thread got some attention!
As a result, ironically I've ordered from a vendor that seemed to have upped his game as a result of this thread (I presume) and lolz, I'm sitting here at 14 days.
I swear, this drug buying shit is stressful! ;D
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more info then one can eat in a session. thanks for this!
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I agree with the previous comments that this thread deserves more attention. So I am bumping and will try to add a bit of value as well:
Making every single package appear to come from a business is a grand idea. Figure out a simple method and do it, please.
Hiding properly sealed product in a 'normal' consumer product is a grand idea. Charge more and do it, please. A lot of people order things like iPhone cases from eBay, for example.
Hiding properly sealed product in a bag of stinky Doritos that has been re-sealed is clever and produces LULZ but not necessarily stealthy. "small bag of Doritos in the mail, wtf?"
I don't want to out any vendors so if anyone thinks this is out of line let me know and I will edit.
SR can and should be a beautiful market for both sides of the transaction, and packaging is a hugely important component of this.
Thanks to all the vendors who get it!
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If one MBB is good......isn't 2 better?
I've received orders that have a single MBB and while it is good that we've moved beyond triple vac seal, I can't help but wonder if a 2nd layer of MBB wouldn't be helpful. Overkill isn't a bad thing here.
The goal, of course, is to have a package held up to a dog's nose and the dog doesn't react/alert.
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If one MBB is good......isn't 2 better?
I've received orders that have a single MBB and while it is good that we've moved beyond triple vac seal, I can't help but wonder if a 2nd layer of MBB wouldn't be helpful. Overkill isn't a bad thing here.
The goal, of course, is to have a package held up to a dog's nose and the dog doesn't react/alert.
If one layer of mbb stops the smell, that's what I'd stick with. Making your letter more bulky with more layers is going to make it more likely to get flagged/fail auto sorting etc.
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If one MBB is good......isn't 2 better?
I've received orders that have a single MBB and while it is good that we've moved beyond triple vac seal, I can't help but wonder if a 2nd layer of MBB wouldn't be helpful. Overkill isn't a bad thing here.
The goal, of course, is to have a package held up to a dog's nose and the dog doesn't react/alert.
If one layer of mbb stops the smell, that's what I'd stick with. Making your letter more bulky with more layers is going to make it more likely to get flagged/fail auto sorting etc.
Letters, ok. I was talking about small packages. In the USPS small priority box, an additional layer of MBB is easily done.
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ZZZZZZZZzzzzzzz, I have received triple MBB thru a very tough customs. MBB is not thick and is not going to make a letter bulky. If a vendor keeps in mind that a highly trained sniffer dog is going to nuzzle his letter, he best be using super-best-practice.
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If one MBB is good......isn't 2 better?
I've received orders that have a single MBB and while it is good that we've moved beyond triple vac seal, I can't help but wonder if a 2nd layer of MBB wouldn't be helpful. Overkill isn't a bad thing here.
The goal, of course, is to have a package held up to a dog's nose and the dog doesn't react/alert.
If one layer of mbb stops the smell, that's what I'd stick with. Making your letter more bulky with more layers is going to make it more likely to get flagged/fail auto sorting etc.
Letters, ok. I was talking about small packages. In the USPS small priority box, an additional layer of MBB is easily done.
For international, I'd guess it is worth it due to the longer time it has to off-gass/transmit odor. I do think it adds bulk unless you are very pro about avoiding bulk and vac seal the MBBs together. A little bulk may not be an issue in a box depending on the contents. I think failure to clean/keep clean the exterior well enough is more likely to give the dogs a chance to detect a freshly packaged MBB that was not stored in a smelly location.
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I love the widespread move to MBB. I wish more vendors would sell the bags for us non-vendors and vendors alike
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Hiding properly sealed product in a 'normal' consumer product is a grand idea. Charge more and do it, please. A lot of people order things like iPhone cases from eBay, for example.
With the increased use of scanners this is no longer a good idea, something concealed inside something else will be easy to spot on a scan. The trick is to disguise the product as something that is consistent with the scan image :)
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I love the widespread move to MBB. I wish more vendors would sell the bags for us non-vendors and vendors alike
I don't think this is the best place for vendors to buy them. There are many places in the USA, at least, that sell them. I think places like U-Line have a few places you can walk in and buy with cash. Or, maybe you can talk your local headshop or grow store into carrying them? A new vendor offering them on SR would be super risky to send a vendor's address (even a drop) to. I may just be overly paranoid though.
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Can we talk a bit about the "LSD Issue"? My friend told me that every time he receives LSD in blotter form from the BMR, the vendors never even vac seal the shit. They just send it wrapped into foil. He has had dozens of orders gone lost and I am starting to doubt the whole "Dogs can't smell LSD hurr durr I know this because I know" -shit.
I am pretty sure that a canine is able to get some sort of smell from LSD even though it's odorless to a human nose. The huge chemical supplier "Sigma Aldrich" even produces a chemical cocktail to mimic LSD which is sold to customs worldwide to train dogs. They have products for all major drugs. Cannabis, Cocaine, H, Amphetamines...
It could be that, if dogs are in fact trained to mark LSD, it's not a worldwide customs fashion. My friend is a Swedish guy by the way.
By the way, it's an urban legend that the dogs would smell some other chemical in the blotter paper, other than LSD.
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By the way, it's an urban legend that the dogs would smell some other chemical in the blotter paper, other than LSD.
That depends on the other chemical and the dogs training. People might add stuff to or replace the LSD with something the dog detects. Bomb sniffer dogs/equipment might detect a variety of solvents/oils? I don't really know what dogs detect, but "LSD" could be/include most anything if you don't get it from good folks. The chemicals used to make bombs could make you feel intoxicated for all I know. Vodka, a common LSD additive, is illegal to transport across many political boundries without the proper fees/paperwork. They may have dogs sniffing for that even? I guess I'm a fan of some "urban myths" :-)
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Ethanol's not commonly on the tested/certified list, afaik. It is far too common, the false positives would be appalling, I would think - lots of legit reasons for ethanol aroma.
I have lived in parts of the US with "dry" counties and even there the dogs didn't get used for interdiction. Maybe they do now?
***As far as solvents/volatiles/explosives and so on, most of these questions can be answered by seeing
http://swgdog.fiu.edu
and browsing through the Guidelines, Appendices, etc.***
Most PDFs appear to be viewable through
http://view.samurajdata.se
so you should not have to download.
The core proficiencies for the explosives dog per SWGDOG:
The training course shall include training to detect the following mandatory groups of explosives that contain the following substances (see Appendix 8.1 for details):
1.2.1. RDX
1.2.2. PETN
1.2.3. TNT
1.2.4. Dynamite
1.2.5. Black powder
1.2.6. Double base smokeless powder
and then there are additional recommended per context.
http://swgdog.fiu.edu/approved-guidelines/sc8_explosives.pdf
Training AWAY from common solvent (including ethanol) is an issue to eliminate false positives, I think - I don't know much about explosives detection dogs, but for SAR type work/scents, making sure the dog is not 'learning' the scent of a solvent, or metal, or polyethylene, as well, is an issue. I've made an effort to use different MBB with Wondermutt here for different rounds of testing. You have to introduce multiple potential associated odors early - best to start with pure scent, then start introducing ambient/associated. Search for "structured generalization" and "detection dogs" if you're curious.
This is part of why it's crucial to store samples properly. [AKA sterile gasketed glass jars with glass tops.] I'm going to bitchslap the next person I see at a utility dog demo keeping samples in PE bags in an ammo can.
Remember: the goal is NOT to increase the breadth of detection/rate of false positives, because that renders the dog sniff even more questionable. They have to narrow the rate down as much as possible and eliminate as many false positives as they can.
"The LSD Question" - Yes, a dog can be trained to scent LSD; there's even a 'pseudo' training scent for it (?Sigma-Aldrich.) It's not on any of the common certifying bodies' exams and I've never seen it mentioned in any dog's credentials in reading or in dog presentations.
But a dog can be trained, if trained appropriately, to alert to whatever the hell you want.
Whale feces and tortoise scat (from a specific type of tortoise!) are still my two favorites. When my dog develops inability to hear me when wandering around out in some cow pasture, I now think, "No, puppy, you can potentially find whale shit at the bottom of the ocean. Focus your attention better."
Oh, and, by the way, that opium still hasn't scented-through its MBB. I'll give it one more week. I'm moving it into a really hot sunny room for a day or two. :)
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I was going to order from a vendor who supposedly has really good weed , i asked if he used moisture barrier bags and he said no, that was a deal breaker. am i the only one?
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Quick question about cleaning Mylar/MBB bags with isopropyl-alcohol after they're sealed. What is the best way to do this? Submerge the bag in isopropyl-alcohol for a few seconds and then let it dry or use a cloth soaked in isopropyl-alcohol and wipe/scrub it clean? Thanks and I hope more vendors read this thread!
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Quick question about cleaning Mylar/MBB bags with isopropyl-alcohol after they're sealed. What is the best way to do this? Submerge the bag in isopropyl-alcohol for a few seconds and then let it dry or use a cloth soaked in isopropyl-alcohol and wipe/scrub it clean? Thanks and I hope more vendors read this thread!
Submerge for a minute or two then clean with a dry cloth, make sure you wear gloves.
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Can we talk a bit about the "LSD Issue"? My friend told me that every time he receives LSD in blotter form from the BMR, the vendors never even vac seal the shit. They just send it wrapped into foil. He has had dozens of orders gone lost and I am starting to doubt the whole "Dogs can't smell LSD hurr durr I know this because I know" -shit.
I am pretty sure that a canine is able to get some sort of smell from LSD even though it's odorless to a human nose. The huge chemical supplier "Sigma Aldrich" even produces a chemical cocktail to mimic LSD which is sold to customs worldwide to train dogs. They have products for all major drugs. Cannabis, Cocaine, H, Amphetamines...
It could be that, if dogs are in fact trained to mark LSD, it's not a worldwide customs fashion. My friend is a Swedish guy by the way.
By the way, it's an urban legend that the dogs would smell some other chemical in the blotter paper, other than LSD.
They can train dogs to detect cell phones (in prisons) to water, it's just a matter of how much of their local police department's budget they are going to put into training the dog. There's a long nat geo documentary I saw on it, quite fascinating.
Most dogs are trained weed, coke, H, and now Meth. Only a few (relative to the huge number of canine's there are) are trained to detect something special and usually they are only trained fully to detect that one thing only. Like bomb sniffing dogs. They eventually learn/trained by their partner (the police officer) the scent of weed, coke (apparently coke has a very strong smell to dogs to start with, it's a matter of us training the dog to sit when they smell it, but smelling coke to a dog is to what it's like for a human to smell chlorine, and bleach (sodium hypochlorite) in particular which we have a 500x stronger olfactory response to then almost anything else, speaking elementally. But yeah, they'll use the dog at that time to find drugs and bombs, but the dog's primary job is to detect the scent of bomb making materials and not be distracted by the smell of all our other dirty human being things.
They don't get their ergotamaines or any other drug from Sigma or Fischer, they get them from the local police department. It's cuz their sense of smell is so sensitive that they can pretty easily be told from their training partner to sit at only certain coke bag's or whatever drug because they can tell the difference between different brands of ammonia, or other reagent's used during a chemical synthesis . They do this work back at the police station with all their seized drugs cuz the dog gives them valuable demographic information about where different coke/meth/etc. chemist's are making their batches just by matching the location of where the perp. that owned each sample was caught. That's usually really the only way to close into a well setup drug synthesis lab. That or a lucky tip from a neighbour calling in saying they think there's odd activity at that house. They just get more hits from the dog if he's searching for the coke going around his area vs. another manufacturer of it.
So drug chemist's, make sure you switch up brand's if you're using hardware grade chemical's and just be careful that your operation is sealed tight if you're using reagent (lab) grade chemical's, cuz they'd rather knock out one of those, and figure out how the chemist was able to get a chemical purchasing right's waiver from Sigma, especially of controlled substances, cuz even a university lab has to go through so much work to get controlled substances approved for their use.
That's why Sigma Fischer, etc. carry ergotamines, cocaine, morphine and most of it's analogs (including diacetyl ... aka H). It is possible with a special permit thats very hard to get to get these compounds because some of them can be used in chemistry for completely unrelated reasons then it being an illicit drug.
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i seriously would of given
I started using SR like a month ago, and i have received many packages. When i first started i bought from many different vendors, and some of them were like amateurs or i dont know.
For example i got 2x LSD and they were just laying inside the envelope and there was a piece of paper handwritten that it said 2X Lsd. i WAS like WTF LOL.
i seriously would of given him the 1/5 he deserves! thats fucking deplorable. who was it?
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Where could one learn about the capabilities of sniffer dogs, especially in their own country? I'm sure it wouldn't be an easy thing to find out...
Can we talk a bit about the "LSD Issue"? My friend told me that every time he receives LSD in blotter form from the BMR, the vendors never even vac seal the shit. They just send it wrapped into foil. He has had dozens of orders gone lost and I am starting to doubt the whole "Dogs can't smell LSD hurr durr I know this because I know" -shit.
I am pretty sure that a canine is able to get some sort of smell from LSD even though it's odorless to a human nose. The huge chemical supplier "Sigma Aldrich" even produces a chemical cocktail to mimic LSD which is sold to customs worldwide to train dogs. They have products for all major drugs. Cannabis, Cocaine, H, Amphetamines...
It could be that, if dogs are in fact trained to mark LSD, it's not a worldwide customs fashion. My friend is a Swedish guy by the way.
By the way, it's an urban legend that the dogs would smell some other chemical in the blotter paper, other than LSD.
They can train dogs to detect cell phones (in prisons) to water, it's just a matter of how much of their local police department's budget they are going to put into training the dog. There's a long nat geo documentary I saw on it, quite fascinating.
Most dogs are trained weed, coke, H, and now Meth. Only a few (relative to the huge number of canine's there are) are trained to detect something special and usually they are only trained fully to detect that one thing only. Like bomb sniffing dogs. They eventually learn/trained by their partner (the police officer) the scent of weed, coke (apparently coke has a very strong smell to dogs to start with, it's a matter of us training the dog to sit when they smell it, but smelling coke to a dog is to what it's like for a human to smell chlorine, and bleach (sodium hypochlorite) in particular which we have a 500x stronger olfactory response to then almost anything else, speaking elementally. But yeah, they'll use the dog at that time to find drugs and bombs, but the dog's primary job is to detect the scent of bomb making materials and not be distracted by the smell of all our other dirty human being things.
They don't get their ergotamaines or any other drug from Sigma or Fischer, they get them from the local police department. It's cuz their sense of smell is so sensitive that they can pretty easily be told from their training partner to sit at only certain coke bag's or whatever drug because they can tell the difference between different brands of ammonia, or other reagent's used during a chemical synthesis . They do this work back at the police station with all their seized drugs cuz the dog gives them valuable demographic information about where different coke/meth/etc. chemist's are making their batches just by matching the location of where the perp. that owned each sample was caught. That's usually really the only way to close into a well setup drug synthesis lab. That or a lucky tip from a neighbour calling in saying they think there's odd activity at that house. They just get more hits from the dog if he's searching for the coke going around his area vs. another manufacturer of it.
So drug chemist's, make sure you switch up brand's if you're using hardware grade chemical's and just be careful that your operation is sealed tight if you're using reagent (lab) grade chemical's, cuz they'd rather knock out one of those, and figure out how the chemist was able to get a chemical purchasing right's waiver from Sigma, especially of controlled substances, cuz even a university lab has to go through so much work to get controlled substances approved for their use.
That's why Sigma Fischer, etc. carry ergotamines, cocaine, morphine and most of it's analogs (including diacetyl ... aka H). It is possible with a special permit thats very hard to get to get these compounds because some of them can be used in chemistry for completely unrelated reasons then it being an illicit drug.
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Flashblock - Re: the abilities of dogs - if you use the search engine on this page, from the main/front page, and search for 'detection dogs', you will find quite a bit.
Or go a few posts up and look at the swgdog links in my previous post in the thread.
The capabilities of the dogs are the same regardless of country. The standard drugs may vary. There will be some sort of certifying body with a qualifying test for detection dogs. You can probably find that if you search country-specific.
The pseudo-scents are also used to avoid harm to the dog, or, as far as I can tell, are for junior handlers who apparently didn't yet qualify for their DEA dog handler license or who have no ready access to certain drugs because they live in the sticks and they can't get on SR. Drugs that can be active in very small doses (LSD, PCP) would not be something a handler would want a dog incidentally ingesting mid-search.
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I am looking at upgrading to this even though im only domestic just for the extra safety aspect and for my Customers peace of mind. Which of the new types of packaging is determined to be the best and could any Aussies chime in as to where they are best purchased with cash (not off ebay or SR). Are they the same kind of bags that computer/electronic parts come in? Any info Appreciated.
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any Vendors sell Mylar?
it's impossible to get it around here.. :(
not a big deal for me.
seems legit though, dipping it in alcohol..
as long as it doesn't reak.
/thumbs
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any Vendors sell Mylar?
it's impossible to get it around here.. :(
not a big deal for me.
seems legit though, dipping it in alcohol..
as long as it doesn't reak.
/thumbs
PlutoPete sells military grade foil.