Silk Road forums
Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: tolvor on December 11, 2012, 12:39 am
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I'm a beginner so I apologize for the stupid question. I did do a search first to check to see if this has already been asked with no results.
I understand why people would buy items that are prohibited thru SR (because it is available here). However I do not understand why people would buy items that are completely unrestricted and legal (ex cash) and pay a premium when they can do so thru many legal channels. Any info on this would be appreciated.
Thanks
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Care to give an example?
Some items are hard to source in the country they live in, some items are custom made, etc...
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I'm a beginner so I apologize for the stupid question. I did do a search first to check to see if this has already been asked with no results.
I understand why people would buy items that are prohibited thru SR (because it is available here). However I do not understand why people would buy items that are completely unrestricted and legal (ex cash) and pay a premium when they can do so thru many legal channels. Any info on this would be appreciated.
Thanks
To trade with a fellow human being. To trade without the use of a constantly devaluing fiat currency. To trade without any government interfering in your private business. To trade and not pay taxes to support a system that fucks the vast majority. To just generally give a two fingers to the establishment.
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laboratory glassware - legal but watched in shipments
cigarettes - legal but heavily taxed
ketamine - legal in some Asian countries but illegal in Westernised countries
Dank
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Because they want to build stats.
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Because they want to build stats.
This. To build buyer stats with zero risk.
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I'm a beginner so I apologize for the stupid question. I did do a search first to check to see if this has already been asked with no results.
I understand why people would buy items that are prohibited thru SR (because it is available here). However I do not understand why people would buy items that are completely unrestricted and legal (ex cash) and pay a premium when they can do so thru many legal channels. Any info on this would be appreciated.
Thanks
To trade with a fellow human being. To trade without the use of a constantly devaluing fiat currency. To trade without any government interfering in your private business. To trade and not pay taxes to support a system that fucks the vast majority. To just generally give a two fingers to the establishment.
This exactly. There is truth to some of the other posts before me but ideally, Silk Road will become a marketplace not only for drugs, but for any kind of trade without any government intervention or theft. It's all in the spirit of counter-economics
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Silk Road will become a marketplace not only for drugs, but for any kind of trade without any government intervention or theft. It's all in the spirit of counter-economics
Counter-economics is an interesting idea.
"Konkin's agorism, as exposited in his New Libertarian Manifesto, postulates that the correct method of achieving a voluntary society is through advocacy and growth of the underground economy or "black market" – the "counter-economy" as Konkin put it – until such a point that the State's perceived moral authority and outright power have been so thoroughly undermined that revolutionary market anarchist legal and security enterprises are able to arise from underground and ultimately suppress government as a criminal activity (with taxation being treated as theft, war being treated as mass murder, et cetera)."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-economics
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I would buy my groceries on SR if they'd let me, it's just cool as f*** buying stuff on here!
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I bought some jewelery on here, BITCHES love jewelery! :-*
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Etizolam is an example of something thats legal in the US over the counter, but just isn't made anywhere in the country(or continent, really,) and even if you do find a source, either domestic(good luck) or abroad, most of them seem somewhat sketchy, and most only accept western union type payments. I've been thinking about trying it, and could get it from one of the clearnet sources I found for a bit cheaper, but none of those sources offer me anywhere near the caliber of protection that SR's escrow system offers me, and I might just end up getting scammed. So there's one situation.
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I buy ordinary, everyday, normal things with bitcoins - just in case in case I ever end up in trouble with the law because of my activities on SR. IMO, buying soap & socks with BTC takes away the ability of a prosecutor to sensationalize BTC as an evil, underground, must-be-a-criminal currency . I like to be prepared. I have backup plans for my backup plans :)
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Because SR vendors provide good service.
I sell mostly legal items that are esoteric or difficult to find.
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I buy ordinary, everyday, normal things with bitcoins - just in case in case I ever end up in trouble with the law because of my activities on SR. IMO, buying soap & socks with BTC takes away the ability of a prosecutor to sensationalize BTC as an evil, underground, must-be-a-criminal currency . I like to be prepared. I have backup plans for my backup plans :)
This is a very good point, It was just the other night in bed that I was thinking of starting to do the same exact thing. How can they say that all "your" BTC traffic was to buy and profit from drugs when your buying normal everyday shit as well. Plus I wanted to put a little more legal traffic through my mailbox as well.
But very good point sir!
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I would be wary of buying physical goods and having them shipped to my house. LE can't distribute real drugs so it would be hard for them to pose as a vendor for long without shipping anything out. They would quickly be labeled scammers. However, they could sell legal goods to harvest buyer addresses and operate like that for months. I would only buy legal digital goods on SR and download/access them over Tor.
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Either that or when your buying your legal goods check there profile page and see what else there selling, or if there a decent enough vendor who has been on SR for more than a cpl months. Obviously if they've been around for a while and also selling illegal goods they arent LE or harvesting addresses for LE. I understand you can never be to cautious but at the same time when are you being over paranoid?
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I mean and it doesnt even necesarily have to be legit legal goods, you can buy scales and pipes and baggies. Granted if it does get looked at for whatever reason it could send a red flag but at the same times its not enough to prosecute you or deam necessary for a warrant.
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Vendors accumulate a great deal of BTC that has to be cashed out. Cashing out (i.e., money laundering) is risky as hell.
Buying legitimate goods on SR (or any bitcoin site) is an easy way to convert BTC to something tangible and liquid, without the risk of setting off AML alarm bells.
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I buy ordinary, everyday, normal things with bitcoins - just in case in case I ever end up in trouble with the law because of my activities on SR. IMO, buying soap & socks with BTC takes away the ability of a prosecutor to sensationalize BTC as an evil, underground, must-be-a-criminal currency . I like to be prepared. I have backup plans for my backup plans :)
This. I am currency speculating currently in bitcoins. It may yield nothing. I may take a small loss. But I have a legit use for bitcoins and can be given no grief about it. If I do make a profit, I'll report my cap gain like a good little citizen and help legitimize the currency further.
Not a whole lot of use for mass-produced items on SR imo, but it could be a hella cool artist's marketplace, a kind of psychedelia-inspired Etsy.
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Vendors accumulate a great deal of BTC that has to be cashed out. Cashing out (i.e., money laundering) is risky as hell.
Buying legitimate goods on SR (or any bitcoin site) is an easy way to convert BTC to something tangible and liquid, without the risk of setting off AML alarm bells.
Hence why people are selling emeralds and shit like that? So when a vendor makes a good run he can buy something of value and cash that out? Is that what your getting at? Sorry, I just want to get a better idea of how a vendor would operate in the cashing out dept.
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I doubt many vendors will share their cash out methods, as this is one of the riskiest parts of the process. Based on what I've read on the forums here ('I got scammed threads' mostly) and some site called HackBB ( http://clsvtzwzdgzkjda7.onion ), here are some methods
Bitcoin exchange -> Bank Account- Ok for small amounts. Small transaction fees. No go for a vendor that needs to process more than a few hundred a week. KYC (Know Your Customer) and AML (Anti Money Laundering) laws require way too much personal info.
Sell Bitcoins for cash-in-mail on SR- some (anonymous Internet) people swear by it, looks like high potential for scams though. Large transaction fee
Sell Bitcoins for moneypak- Quick and easy if all precautions are taken by the seller, high potential for scams if not. Large transaction fee
Buy prepaid debit cards, amazon gift certificates (they sell just about everything you can't buy on SR anyway)or payment card type financial instruments on SR- Potentially an anonymity threat, If I were LE I'd be the money changer (selling cash != selling contraband, so better option for sting than posing as illegal goods vendor) and get the credit card companies to track all the accounts.
Buying precious gems, gold- more difficult to convert to cash, might be a better option than stuffing into mattress if you're flush though. Gems can be occasionally be tracked (I believe the have etched serial numbers in them for the expensive ones), gold cannot if melted and reformed. Large transaction fee.
Sell bitcoins F2F (like through a local bitcoin matching service)- might work in a high population area, probably not reliable enough for more remote areas though. Lot of labor to meet people though. No transaction fees that I know of, but you'll have to pay for gas and time.
I'd be interested to know what methods people use as well though.
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I doubt many vendors will share their cash out methods, as this is one of the riskiest parts of the process....
Hit the nail on the head there.
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I doubt many vendors will share their cash out methods, as this is one of the riskiest parts of the process. Based on what I've read on the forums here ('I got scammed threads' mostly) and some site called HackBB ( http://clsvtzwzdgzkjda7.onion ), here are some methods
Bitcoin exchange -> Bank Account- Ok for small amounts. Small transaction fees. No go for a vendor that needs to process more than a few hundred a week. KYC (Know Your Customer) and AML (Anti Money Laundering) laws require way too much personal info.
Sell Bitcoins for cash-in-mail on SR- some (anonymous Internet) people swear by it, looks like high potential for scams though. Large transaction fee
Sell Bitcoins for moneypak- Quick and easy if all precautions are taken by the seller, high potential for scams if not. Large transaction fee
Buy prepaid debit cards, amazon gift certificates (they sell just about everything you can't buy on SR anyway)or payment card type financial instruments on SR- Potentially an anonymity threat, If I were LE I'd be the money changer (selling cash != selling contraband, so better option for sting than posing as illegal goods vendor) and get the credit card companies to track all the accounts.
Buying precious gems, gold- more difficult to convert to cash, might be a better option than stuffing into mattress if you're flush though. Gems can be occasionally be tracked (I believe the have etched serial numbers in them for the expensive ones), gold cannot if melted and reformed. Large transaction fee.
Sell bitcoins F2F (like through a local bitcoin matching service)- might work in a high population area, probably not reliable enough for more remote areas though. Lot of labor to meet people though. No transaction fees that I know of, but you'll have to pay for gas and time.
I'd be interested to know what methods people use as well though.
Right on, definitely more available options than what I had thought of. And yeah I can understand why they wouldn't want to share this information. I guess I hadnt thought about what I was really asking for before I had asked it. Thanks for explaining what you could for me though.
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I would be wary of buying physical goods and having them shipped to my house. LE can't distribute real drugs so it would be hard for them to pose as a vendor for long without shipping anything out. They would quickly be labeled scammers. However, they could sell legal goods to harvest buyer addresses and operate like that for months. I would only buy legal digital goods on SR and download/access them over Tor.
Why would they care about harvesting buyer addresses? What point would that serve? EVERYONE in the US is likely to be a drug buyer. It'd be more interesting if the DEA could harvest a list of the few American residences that would never consider buying drugs.
The only reason law enforcement ever targets buyers is to attempt to get information on vendors. Silk Road is a system whereby the buyers don't HAVE any information about the vendors. They cannot snitch on anyone, so law enforcement would find targeting them to be a waste of time.