Silk Road forums
Discussion => Shipping => Topic started by: Cali4niaLove on December 07, 2012, 07:00 am
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So the other night I was contemplating security and methods to protect oneself and I realized that in the past when I lived in apartments I would often get mail for names of people that didn't live in my apartment. If the post office is so on top of things, why do they still deliver these letters, I wondered.
I thought, what if you started sending letters to your house with a false name? It would be simple, write a simple letter, maybe even print a picture of something random, put a fake name on the envelope and your home address, then drop it off in a blue mailbox and wait to see if it got delivered. You could send a letter to yourself every week for a month or so, to get the mailman used to seeing the false name in the mailbox. Then eventually you could have packages from SR shipped to your house under the false name. If a package got caught, you could deny it was for you.
This all assuming the mailman would deliver these fake letters in the first place. But I thought I'd bounce the idea around and see if anyone has tried it/anyone knows anything further about this...
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.... Brilliant idea.
But, it's probably mentioned once every page of threads, so I think you might have missed the opportunity to patent it.
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"true vs. fake name" should be moved to sticky topics of this forum :)
To test my mail I used some web-services that print custom pdf-document and send it with letter to specified address.
That's how I ensured foreign letters without return address (or with John Doe name) still delivered to me.
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Nice move tdk, do you want to share any links for these services?
I'm on business on the other side of the country, I posted a bunch of different dummy articles (parcels, postcards, letters) to my receiving address to (a) make sure mail is coming through, (b) establish a pattern of unusual return addresses and extra mail.
Having a web service do this from OS would be great.
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I too get mail from previous tenants almost daily now, we've even told the mailmen no less than 5 times that person didn't live there, gave them the mail, and wrote inside the mailbox they don't live there. We still get their mail. The problem you have is that it COULD end up at their new address, if they've signed up for forwarding. Usually junk mail still goes to the old addresses, but I've even gotten government things in this persons name and handed them back to the mailman. Next problem is signing for the package, what if you for some reason have to sign for it, you can't just forge that persons name usually, especially if its a controlled delivery, or if they ask for ID. And you cant just open mail with someone elses name on it, that's not legal.
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To test my mail I used some web-services that print custom pdf-document and send it with letter to specified address.
Bloody brilliant idea.
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2Theophilus: Sarcasm, isn't it? :)
2firehawk:
http://www.mailaletter.com/
https://www.pc2paper.co.uk/mainpage.asp
one from U.S., one from UK. It'd be cool to find some from NL, but still both these services allow to put any return address you want.. so you can simulate the most freaking RED-FLAGGED letter ever :) except with no white powders inside. Still it can help to predict delivery time from specific country.
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So the other night I was contemplating security and methods to protect oneself and I realized that in the past when I lived in apartments I would often get mail for names of people that didn't live in my apartment. If the post office is so on top of things, why do they still deliver these letters, I wondered.
I thought, what if you started sending letters to your house with a false name? It would be simple, write a simple letter, maybe even print a picture of something random, put a fake name on the envelope and your home address, then drop it off in a blue mailbox and wait to see if it got delivered. You could send a letter to yourself every week for a month or so, to get the mailman used to seeing the false name in the mailbox. Then eventually you could have packages from SR shipped to your house under the false name. If a package got caught, you could deny it was for you.
This all assuming the mailman would deliver these fake letters in the first place. But I thought I'd bounce the idea around and see if anyone has tried it/anyone knows anything further about this...
Always use a name of the opposite sex, this is what I have done and has worked 100% flawlessly. I made up a name to look like it was my girlfriend or significant other and ordered 2 magazines in her name as well as 1 or 2 things from Amazon, nothing didn't arrive and nothing was late most were actually ahead of schedule from when my express normally arrives.
It has been extremely alarming to me that SR actually encourages the use of your Real Name(sounds like a honey pot)
A post office has no knowledge wether or not a girl or friend is temporarily staying with you, (definatly dont use old tenant names they could have mail forwarding) But either way don't constantly switch fake names, if your a guy find ONE girls name and use this until compromised, it is not the post office's job to be like hey tommy ohenry lives here why is samantha bordain getting mail here aswell? A new person could have just moved in/ got married there are endless legit reason why people get mail at other addresses you could be visiting family friends ect. It is when ultiple packages all with different odd names arrive to the same house in short periods of time that raise suspicion.
I suggest using family variations of your name as well, for instance you(joe shmoe) living at the house, your mother Jane Shmoe then comes to visit for a month, hence jane shmoe might possibly want to order something online.
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It has been extremely alarming to me that SR actually encourages the use of your Real Name(sounds like a honey pot)
Really? AFAIR at instructions page of SR it's recommended to use drop address and fake name. Cannot check though, SR is down currently..
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2Theophilus: Sarcasm, isn't it? :)
2firehawk:
http://www.mailaletter.com/
https://www.pc2paper.co.uk/mainpage.asp
one from U.S., one from UK. It'd be cool to find some from NL, but still both these services allow to put any return address you want.. so you can simulate the most freaking RED-FLAGGED letter ever :) except with no white powders inside. Still it can help to predict delivery time from specific country.
No sarcasm there, I really thought that was a great idea!
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Just pay someone a small fee to accept a package in their name, and don't tell them what's in it - tell them, it's better if they don't know.
Oh yeah, let someone else *unwittingly* take the fall for you. That's an extremely shitty move.
I can assure you, that if someone set up up like that, they would not be protected from anything. They would go to prison. You know how? After the controlled delivery, when the cops are in my living room, I would tell them who the package is for and I'd call them up. "Hey man, your package arrived." And when they came over, they would be arrested. I'm not taking the fall for anyone, and neither would anyone else.
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Just pay someone a small fee to accept a package in their name, and don't tell them what's in it - tell them, it's better if they don't know.
Oh yeah, let someone else *unwittingly* take the fall for you. That's an extremely shitty move.
I can assure you, that if someone set up up like that, they would not be protected from anything. They would go to prison. You know how? After the controlled delivery, when the cops are in my living room, I would tell them who the package is for and I'd call them up. "Hey man, your package arrived." And when they came over, they would be arrested. I'm not taking the fall for anyone, and neither would anyone else.
Agree with astor. No-one is going to take the fall for you for 'a small fee'.
There are smart ways you could get someone else to pick up your mail and not let it be a problem. But, they're time and effort intensive, and not worth it for a typical buyer. Also they should never be openly discussed on this forum ;)
Two things (which are now going to be my sig!)
1. The only person who has your best interests at heart is you.
2. Plausible deniability, it's a recurring theme for a reason.
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I was even thinking you could go buy a VISA gift card...go online and find a bunch of cheap magazine subscriptions...like $10/year kinda deals....then go get like 3 magazine subscriptions for a false name (I like the idea of a female false name, even more deniability!)
I disagree with having a friend receive the package...if they get raided by the DEA they are not going to take the fall for you, they will rat you out so hard haha.
Using the previous resident's name is genius also, but I would still send a few fake letters first to make sure they got through.
What's funny is that I never came across this information when I first lurked SR for about a month...it's so hard to sift through all the spam and BS on these forums sometimes!
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::) I don't know about you guys, but I've been at this for a while. It used to be, you knew someone who knew someone, now its... you know about the silk road.... in the end, it's all drugs in the mail. I pay people to accept parcels for a generous fee, without complaint. My people all know 'what' is in each box, but with no other information(amount, value, brand, etc.). Just that it's in their best interest not to know what 'exactly' is in the package, therefore understanding that it contains what it contains.
I don't work with scared kids, I work with business people whom I can trust and communicate with safely. I'd like to see you accept my volume of packages at your apartment alone. :o
Your stats don't lie! Averaging around $3500 each transaction. Nice buyer :)
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::) I don't know about you guys, but I've been at this for a while. It used to be, you knew someone who knew someone, now its... you know about the silk road.... in the end, it's all drugs in the mail. I pay people to accept parcels for a generous fee, without complaint. My people all know 'what' is in each box, but with no other information(amount, value, brand, etc.). Just that it's in their best interest not to know what 'exactly' is in the package, therefore understanding that it contains what it contains.
I don't work with scared kids, I work with business people whom I can trust and communicate with safely. I'd like to see you accept my volume of packages at your apartment alone. :o
I appreciate your bravery and your associates bravery. On that note, I've had buyers trip out about receiving 3.5g in the mail...everyone has different risk tolerances, and clearly yours is higher than most. I can't speak on the people that you work with but in my personal experiences on the street, a lot of people talk really tough but when their door gets kicked down at 6am by the DEA and the next thing they know they're getting grilled about whatever, threatened with 5-7 years time, they fold like a house of cards. I'm a vendor, so I didn't create this thread for myself, I created it as food-for-thought for buyers who are more risk averse and looking at ways to protect themselves. Again, props to your accomplishments, but I still think that we are having a valid exploration of an important issue.
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Regarding who recommends what - the SR consensus seems to be: use your real name, real address. Many vendors blame fake names for undelivered packages and claim a higher success rate with real. It wasn't until a day or two ago that I saw the SR buyer's guide under the account tab in SR and actually saw that DPR recommends use of a fake name. I was not happy.
I also thought about using a past tenant. Mail forwarding here is paid for a duration - it doesn't last forever. That's a situation where I could see sending some sort of innocuous letter or package to see if forwarding is still active. But it also shares a problem with the fictional girlfriend idea, and that is if your package ends up at the p.o., there's no way to pick it up.
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Using a different name would make little difference legally, and I can't see how in practice it would reduce any risk to yourself.
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I've responded to this, I think, four times now since I decided I'd made enough orders and done enough research to have information worth sharing. Use your real name. The complications outweigh the literally non-existent benefit.
Nobody gives a fuck who's name is on the package. It's in your mailbox? In your hand? In your house? It's your package, they're your drugs, do not pass go, goodbye Carlos Mencia, better luck next time (or whatever name you stuck on the damn thing).
Mail isn't automated. They by hand and personal attention deliver your mail to your address. It goes to your zip code, gets sorted for delivery, and then that one guy hand-delivers ALL his route's mail. He looks at names. He looks at addresses. He delivered to the previous tenant too. He'll probably remember the name.
The best option is your own name. Look up some of the details in other posts where I've tried to point this out to people. Besides, not all mail will be forwarded. Some poor idiot tried this a month or two ago, and three times in a row his packages never arrived. Think they might have been forwarded to the previous tenant's new address? I sure as Hell do. Think the guy freaked out and called the cops because he didn't know wtf was going on and didn't want to go to jail? I sure as Hell do.
I haven't seen that guy around since he posted freaking out, by the way. Guess the cops didn't care whose name was on the side of the package. Shocking.
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I thought, what if you started sending letters to your house with a false name?.... If a package got caught, you could deny it was for you.
Dude that my my idea lol. I figured you could put someone else's name and then say (if asked) that they were your flat mate who works day shift and you need to collect it on his/her hehalf.
Someone at BMR told us to always use our real name to avoid it being marked as 'Undeliverable', but like Ecom123 I suspect that's a really bad idea. I frequently receive letters containing the names of the previous owners, and am always getting packages. They don't even leave it on my porch anymore, they just leave in my box. I always thought a honeypot was jailbait or something, lol.
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I'm torn on the real name v fake name... I can see the strengths each has over the other.
I think ultimately real name is probably stronger... It's biggest downfall, actually having something attaching you to the drugs can easily be overcome by plausible deniability. You have no control over who sends what yo you in the mail. It could easily be someone setting you up.
But a lot of things can go wrong with a fake name or past tenant
- Can't be picked up at the post office if not delivered
- Mail forwarding for previous tenants
- Can't sign for it (you shouldn't sign for silk road anyway, but if you're ordering proper shit of Amazon, ebay etc,. at the same time it's gonna be hard)
- If your postie has a good enough memory or the town is small enough it'll become noticeable when a whole lot of overseas packages start turning up to a house under name/s that have never been delivered there before
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For counterpoint, real name issues:
- blackmail - sure, vendors are supposed to destroy info, but not everyone does.
- crim record flags - is your name going to add to the chance of inspection?
- job related concerns - your job require any kind of security clearance? Suddenly that love letter is a big problem - if it's in your name.
- lesser deniability - yes, possession is a strict liability offence - if you're in possession, intent is not required. But an intercepted package is NOT in your possession. Sure, anyone *could* send you drugs. Compare the believability of that explanation to "looks like it was for the last tenant - I have other mail with that name". This does not apply to "imaginary girlfriend", which falls apart the moment LE decides to investigate this made-up person.
I think a person's circumstances may dictate which strategy is better. For me, the sticking point is inability to pick up packages from the p.o.. Though if you've already decided that you'll never sign for anything, that may not be a factor, so maybe you have less to lose by using a fake name.
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Interesting, Oldtoby. Good points, all. I hadn't considered those particular aspects. I'm not sure if they really change the balance as much as they may appear to, but I admit, I'm less certain about the real name decision than I was before. Thanks for pointing them out :)
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I never use my real name for ordering drugs and I have more than 20 successful transactions. Mailmen here in the UK don't care what name is on the envelope. They even left a big package worth ~£2k (not drugs) in front of my door and it was not even addressed to me :D So far I never had to sign for drugs, but even if I will be asked to sign I don't think there will be any problem, because I had to sign for several legal deliveries and they never asked for any ID. Even if I put X instead of signature they don't care as long as they deliver the package :) I've been living at this place for a while now by myself and still receive letters addressed to 4-5 different people and I have no idea who they are.
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I see a lot of good points being made on both sides, like I stated before, it was just an idea I had that I was hoping to get more feedback from everyone on.
In theory, I think using a very common name like "Adam Smith" would make it very hard for police to investigate whether or not that person really existed or not. I would never recommend trying to feed the police a story however...in my opinion the best thing to do is deny knowing anything about it and that's all.
The burden of proof is on the state; you are innocent until proven guilty. It's a lot harder to prove you ordered the package if your name isn't on the box and you took proper precautions when acquiring BTC and accessing SR.
Once again, I'm not suggesting somebody try making up a name and having an order delivered right away. I'm talking about building up a paper trail for months first, with letters and magazines subscriptions...you can also use those as a test to see if the mail gets delivered 100% of the time or not. Anything less than 100% is unacceptable because you wouldn't want that 10% failure rate to kick in when a package is on it's way.
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See, that's the problem: the "protection" you're referring to is already used up by not getting arrested the second the drugs are found. That's why they do controlled deliveries: you're right, they can't prove you ordered it or convict you of doing so without you ever even having the package.
What you get slapped with is possession, primarily. If you aren't in possession of anything, well then they can't very well charge you with being in possession of controlled substances, now can they. But common names like "Joe Smith" or "John Doe" or whatever are actually a red flag. If you rack up enough red flags, they pull the package and get a warrant and inspect it.
So that's why I've always strongly recommended you do not use a fake name, previous tenant's name, roommate's name -- whatever the fuck name isn't yours, I don't suggest using it. There's no protection in not ordering it once you're in possession of it. That's the charge. Possession. It's up to you to prove that your circumstances were so extraordinary that you shouldn't be convicted of it (which is what everybody talks about when they say "but anyone could have sent it to me!" True, and yeah, it would work to fuck over an enemy -- try it, they'll get arrested I guarantee it).
But fuck man, they're definitely charging you one way or another with the same thing no matter whose name was on it.
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But fuck man, they're definitely charging you one way or another with the same thing no matter whose name was on it.
In case of cd? Sure. At the investigation stage, though, you sure as hell look a lot more guilty with drugs being sent to you. "Anyone could be sending me hundreds of dollars of valuable drugs - I think it's a set up!" must be the #1 eyeroll for LE. Maybe it would even make the difference to the right judge as to whether or not that warrant gets signed; I don't know. That's flimsy as hell.
In contrast to where heavyweight is, I know for a fact (when receiving legit packages) that I do need to show ID here to pick up from the p.o., so fake name and no fake ID is simply not an option if I ever plan to rescue a package from there.
The paper trail, I just don't know. I figure if done well, that nets you two things:
i) less suspicion by carrier which ok, is nothing to sneeze at.
ii) the love letter names the wrong person, which I think is also a pretty sizeable benefit.
But if LE come a knockin? Then you look guilty as hell. There's not even the flimsy "anyone could be sending me drugs", unless you're 100% committed to pretending Imaginary Guy is a real human being, and, well, good luck with that.
I wasn't kidding about not being happy seeing that Buyer's Guide recommendation. It kinda freaked me out, and I'm a little angry with myself for just going along with what seemed to be the SR consensus, when what's partly to blame was my laziness and eagerness as a newb to get my hands on some of that sweet contraband. And let's face it, it feels better to be reassured than to be scared. Sometimes I think all LE has to do is to nudge us into comforting, dangerous illusions and we'll do the rest ourselves.
I mean, presumably DPR wrote the buyer's guide, no? I tend to think I need a very, very good reason to not take the man's advice (like, say, him saying never FE). Contrast that with, what?
i) decent vendors who of course don't want their customers getting caught, but are also responding to customer demands for refunds when their packages don't show up, and fake names are adding some % to that chance;
ii) buyers of all stripes who as reasonable people can disagree;
iii) an unknown # of LE on SR who of course want you to do the stupidest things possible
The only comfort I take is that the Road has been around a lot longer than I have, so it makes it hard to trust my instincts. My instincts told me from the get go "Use your own name? That's completely fucking daft" but there was so much disagreement on SR that I relented. But if SR, or a sizeable portion of the customer base, gets taken out at some point, those left will, I'm sure, think a few big mistakes were blindingly obvious in retrospect and I hope this isn't one of them. Popular wisdom is fickle. I can just hear "Oh yeah those people on SR version 1 were morons. Of *course* you don't do that."
Anyway, don't mind me. I have packages in transit and many things to worry about besides, so I'm maybe a little more stressed atm than befits careful analysis of risk.
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My friend, reasoning like yours is such a wonderful rarity that it's a pleasure just to read along. I wish more people thought like you, I really do.
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Coming from someone whose sig quotes Spinoza, that's a big compliment. Thanks, SelfSov.
And now to bed, perchance not to dream, because my dreams of late are all some version of "I'm fucked".
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subscribing
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Fake name/real address all day long for me. I'm actually working out how I can do fake name fake address and still be able to receive/pickup for maximum protection. For the UK I'm having difficulty but for the US I have an idea....
I think it depends on what country you are in. In the UK they couldn't care less what name it is addressed to, they just deliver to that address. The whole point of this topic is should the worst happen and your parcel is intercepted how do you distance yourself from it and avoid prosecution. Therefore firstly I would never use my real name because I know in my country if all goes well I don't need to use my real name for it to get delivered. If it does get intercepted and I use a fake name I have a million excuses - not me never heard of them, they got the wrong house number, previous tenant etc. If I used my real name and it gets intercepted then in my opinion it brings much more focus on you as being the person that ordered, address - check, name - check. Remember I would never order anything I have to sign for anyway real name or not so controlled delivery doesn't even come into it. If you get a knock to sign, sorry I've never heard of them and you lose your package. Just take it on the chin. Using a fake name also keeps your anonymous from the vendor which can be a good thing however if you live in a country where fake names don't get delivered then I guess you have to use real.
So the idea I saw on TV for the US is some of you guys have post boxes sitting in the road, mail boxes, whatever they are called, those things on sticks that Jocks hit with baseball bats. In the UK we don't have those, letters are just posted through the door. So apparently this guy drives round looking for foreclosures or empty houses then orders to that house. Not sure whether he used fake or real name for the house, would the real name for the house be on the foreclosure notice? Anyway parcel gets delivered to mailbox on street and he just drives by around ETA and picks up. Not his name, not his address. Only risk is if someone is watching the mailbox.
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2Theophilus: Sarcasm, isn't it? :)
2firehawk:
http://www.mailaletter.com/
https://www.pc2paper.co.uk/mainpage.asp
one from U.S., one from UK. It'd be cool to find some from NL, but still both these services allow to put any return address you want.. so you can simulate the most freaking RED-FLAGGED letter ever :) except with no white powders inside. Still it can help to predict delivery time from specific country.
Brilliant, I'm going to check this out.. Seems like it could work.
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My friend, reasoning like yours is such a wonderful rarity that it's a pleasure just to read along. I wish more people thought like you, I really do.
I completely agree with SelfSorverignty, it's a pleasure read your post oldtoby. Wish to write like you in English, it's not my mother tong and I don't have that much level =P
What ever... My opinion in that aspect is that everyone is free to use whatever they like. For example, where I live, you can send package without name on it; just the address and that's it. Any name are in the mailboxes and the postman do not give a shit if he is putting the letter in the correct mail or not. I am receiving the phone invoice of my neighbor since the last ten months. Come on, he is delivering letters to him everyday! I am sure that he even don't look at the name, case if he does, I wanna think that he will be smart enough to delivery it to the next mailbox.
However, I made my first order in SR two days ago, 10 g of crystals. I put my real name on it, reading all of that stuff I became a bit paranoid. I read in the official guide that I should put it.
I don't have a clue whats a "love letter", after reading a lot, I can imagine that they send such a kind of letter if they intercept a parcel with drugs on it with your name, no? And I will say the same that oldtody said "anyone could be sending me drugs". Why not is plausible to say that? I mean, I am innocent until they prove the opposite, no? How can they prove that I ordered through SR? I wanna think that's a bit difficult to do it, no?
Kindly,
Lanvin
EDIT 1: The last year, before I knew about SR, I was living in Germany for a couple of months, over there (with the exception of Berlin) is so difficult to get good weed at good price. Case that, a friend of mine, sent me like two big parcel with weed on it. Just vacuum packed once and I received it every both times. My name was on it, and over the south of Germany the police is so fucking good in this kind of stuff. I think that you just have to be really unlike to get busted with that. I WANT TO BELIEVE THAT HAHAHA.
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My friend, reasoning like yours is such a wonderful rarity that it's a pleasure just to read along. I wish more people thought like you, I really do.
I completely agree with SelfSorverignty, it's a pleasure read your post oldtoby. Wish to write like you in English, it's not my mother tong and I don't have that much level =P
What ever... My opinion in that aspect is that everyone is free to use whatever they like. For example, where I live, you can send package without name on it; just the address and that's it. Any name are in the mailboxes and the postman do not give a shit if he is putting the letter in the correct mail or not. I am receiving the phone invoice of my neighbor since the last ten months. Come on, he is delivering letters to him everyday! I am sure that he even don't look at the name, case if he does, I wanna think that he will be smart enough to delivery it to the next mailbox.
However, I made my first order in SR two days ago, 10 g of crystals. I put my real name on it, reading all of that stuff I became a bit paranoid. I read in the official guide that I should put it.
I don't have a clue whats a "love letter", after reading a lot, I can imagine that they send such a kind of letter if they intercept a parcel with drugs on it with your name, no? And I will say the same that oldtody said "anyone could be sending me drugs". Why not is plausible to say that? I mean, I am innocent until they prove the opposite, no? How can they prove that I ordered through SR? I wanna think that's a bit difficult to do it, no?
Kindly,
Lanvin
EDIT 1: The last year, before I knew about SR, I was living in Germany for a couple of months, over there (with the exception of Berlin) is so difficult to get good weed at good price. Case that, a friend of mine, sent me like two big parcel with weed on it. Just vacuum packed once and I received it every both times. My name was on it, and over the south of Germany the police is so fucking good in this kind of stuff. I think that you just have to be really unlike to get busted with that. I WANT TO BELIEVE THAT HAHAHA.
Well first of all, everything I've said here has been in reference to the US. Pardon me for not coming out and saying so -- it isn't that I think the US is all that matters or anything, it's just that I live here and... well, you know. I tend to think in terms of the place I'm in.
I am totally completely clueless about other countries, personally, but as far as it goes here -- the thing is that you're being charged with possessing drugs. Now if somebody walks up to you, throws a sack of cocaine all over you, then starts shrieking "police! Police! He has DRUGS...!" the fact of the matter is, if nobody saw the guy waste all of his cocaine by throwing it at you, you're going to get arrested for having drugs. Now will you be *convicted* of possession? It seems very unlikely, but the problem here is that you'd have to take it to trial. That's expensive. That's time consuming. The police also don't really give a shit if you take it to trial or not. Really all they want is to arrest you, get you to confess, and never think about you again.
Generally I think in terms of avoiding having to go to trial at all, while still not shooting myself in the foot if it ever does come to that. But primarily, I want to prevent it. My feeling is that fake names increase the chances of being found because it's like wasting a red flag -- anyone with a fake name on their package *basically* is able to get one less red flag than my package, so it's conceivable that my package will go right through when theirs will get them arrested (not always, of course, but I feel this is true at least some of the time).
That's my basic line of thought; you can expand on that reasoning as you like.
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Well first of all, everything I've said here has been in reference to the US. Pardon me for not coming out and saying so -- it isn't that I think the US is all that matters or anything, it's just that I live here and... well, you know. I tend to think in terms of the place I'm in.
Ok, I got it, you are not like the rest of Americans hahahaha :P (kidding).
I think that things always become bigger in USA, especially for drugs. Can you please explain whats exactly a red flag? That happens also in EU? It's obviously that all of us should take care of our security, share thoughts like you does should be a must in here.
Kindly,
Lanvin
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Red flags are just anything suspicious about a package, and while everybody apparently has their own version of the list, there's very specific ones that all mail carriers (in the US at least) seem to share.
A few examples:
Hand written labels.
Addressed to an individual, from an individual.
Generic recipient name (John Doe, Jeff Smith, etc.).
No recipient name.
Name of recipient or sender not tied to either address.
Mailed from a zip code that differs from the return address zip code.
Stains on the package.
Secured or closed with tape.
Any noticeable smell (not just drug smells, any smell)
... And so on. Nobody really knows how many red flags you have to rack up to get your package opened & inspected due to a warrant. It probably varies by day, mood of the inspector, etc.. That's from memory; there are more, but for some reason nobody ever really gives the full list. I assume there's a good reason for that... but I don't know what it is. You can google drug package profile and find it without much trouble though.
That's enough info, I think.
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Red flags are just anything suspicious about a package, and while everybody apparently has their own version of the list, there's very specific ones that all mail carriers (in the US at least) seem to share.
A few examples:
Hand written labels.
Addressed to an individual, from an individual.
Generic recipient name (John Doe, Jeff Smith, etc.).
No recipient name.
Name of recipient or sender not tied to either address.
Mailed from a zip code that differs from the return address zip code.
Stains on the package.
Secured or closed with tape.
Any noticeable smell (not just drug smells, any smell)
... And so on. Nobody really knows how many red flags you have to rack up to get your package opened & inspected due to a warrant. It probably varies by day, mood of the inspector, etc.. That's from memory; there are more, but for some reason nobody ever really gives the full list. I assume there's a good reason for that... but I don't know what it is. You can google drug package profile and find it without much trouble though.
That's enough info, I think.
I just can say that; thanks a lot!
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So, another day, a little more SR experience, more reading, more thinking.
I would never order anything I have to sign for anyway real name or not so controlled delivery doesn't even come into it. If you get a knock to sign, sorry I've never heard of them and you lose your package. Just take it on the chin.
I think you have it. I mentioned this aspect before but hadn't worked around to committing myself. It's far more sensible to face up to it *before* you start: am I going to go to the post office to pick up a package if it means signing for it? If the answer is Definitely No, then that aspect of using a fake name just evaporates. Don't consider it again. Contrast that with: "I set out knowing I shouldn't sign for parcels but it's not 100% definitely a cd because parcels re-routed to p.o. always need a sig (unlike at your door, which would be a warning sign) and I reeaaaally want that package (maybe you're actually jonesing for it, maybe just terribly tempted)..." I'd personally rather not even leave it up to myself in that situation and state of mind. Sober, reflective me says "never sign", so removing the possibility by using a fake name for which I have no corresponding fake ID should be no problem at all.
A few new points:
- if you do abandon a package at the p.o., it's certainly better if it's not your name on it. All the usual excuses come into play - mistaken sender, wrong address, etc, etc.. Abandoned package at the p.o. with your name on it? (you don't want to go sign for it) Suspicious. May lead to k9 being called in, then warrant, then opened. Various things might happen from there, but you are certainly 100% on LE radar from that point on.
- vendor blacklist. Obviously, I think the community is better off when people deserving of blacklist (LE, fuckwits of all sorts) are blacklisted, but on the off-chance that you end up being discussed on the vendor's portion of the site (disclaimer: I have no personal knowledge of that area, except that it exists) then it would suck for you if suddenly SR vendors decided not to vend to you - as in you by name and not just by account (which you could dump). Get flagged by real name and you're forced to use an alias if you want to use SR again. You won't have a choice. A new account, a new address, won't help. That's maybe another reason why vendors want you to use your real name, but it's not in the (individual) buyer's interest to do so by that rationale.
- a perhaps even less likely eventuality but we've seen some drama from vendors on site. Imagine one wants payback for bad reviews or what have you? A vengeful vendor could have your ass with no problem whatsoever (whether you buy from them or not, if they still have your name/address). Although here both fake name and fake address are your only defence, in that you could switch up both and be protected.
The more I think about this the more I think I made the wrong choice, and if I clear my current packages and build some fucking self-discipline and patience (or a stash in lieu of), I may re-jig for SR participation mark ii with an alternate name, though probably not alternate address as I do not have those kinds of resources. Would want to do some delivery testing first to be sure of the results (and condition my carrier however I require).
On the issue of package smell, this may be a bit of a tangent, but READ THIS THREAD: http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=33755.0
Read the whole thing. Take notes. It's a beautiful work of analysis using the goddamn scientific method and a retired k9 unit. READ IT.
And by inserting that here, I'm just noting that the risk of smell is variable by substance, by packaging (obviously), by conditions such as heat and cold, and by length of time in the package. Additionally, a clean room is important because the packing materials may become contaminated even if the product is perfectly sealed.
For more package profiling info, no need to google; see the sticky-d threads under "Shipping" on the forums.
Incidentally, I'm Canada-based, but we share a lot of issues with the U.S. in this area.
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I found that thread interesting, oldtoby. There's one problem: it's a *retired* police dog. Those things cost a goddamn fortune to train.
... so, why'd they just let this one go? Because it was too old and couldn't properly do it's job anymore, is my bet. Which kind of makes it misinformation, not good information. Yes?
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I found that thread interesting, oldtoby. There's one problem: it's a *retired* police dog. Those things cost a goddamn fortune to train.
... so, why'd they just let this one go? Because it was too old and couldn't properly do it's job anymore, is my bet. Which kind of makes it misinformation, not good information. Yes?
It's a good point and not one I saw addressed in that thread, so I can only speculate, but I would imagine there are reasons to retire a k9 unit other than his nose no longer being up to snuff (no pun intended). Also not sure how that particular problem would become evident. I suppose they might do intermittent testing with parcels containing known contraband, but in the real world if they miss packages they're missed - hard to say you have a poorly functioning dog without some evidence of declining skills.
But that's all speculation. The main reason the retirement doesn't concern me is because I don't take the thread as comfort that the minimum standards established for that retired dog are *good enough* - quite the opposite - it seems to me that this old dog, whatever is wrong with him, was able to detect packages likely representative of packaging and conditions for quite possibly a majority of current vendors on SR. If vendors are using triple-mylar shields, I haven't encountered them yet. The sole exception might be cocaine, though the dog seemed to be able to detect it outside of that package (see further in thread). So it seems to me that a great number of vendors are using practices that this retired, potentially impaired k9 unit can sniff out. That should be a crystal clear message that if you're not triple-sealing, ideally with attention to plastic (or metal) type, then you're not doing enough, not that a fourth layer might not be necessary for a young dog or worse conditions (heat, longer duration, etc). And to us buyers, if you're not seeing that kind of care from your vendors, beware. I messaged a vendor today, referencing that thread, because it seemed crystal clear to me that while I couldn't detect any smell before cutting through the vac seal in the package I received, it seems to be proof against k9 for at most 15 minutes out in the world. Not good enough.
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Well bear in mind, to train them in the first place they expose them to the real chemicals. I mean they've got stockpiles of the stuff, after all. So it should be an easy matter to run occasional re-licensing exams on them, if you will :)
To be honest man, I don't think there's *any* way to hide drugs from a dog. I know that people talk about "in the real world," blah blah blah... I don't buy it. I do not buy it, and I tell you why: these dogs were first made almost perfect by evolution and hunting. Then we came along, and we fucking made them even better at it with selective breeding for desirable traits (like sniffer doggies, yay!).
The human olfactory bulb is about 3/4 of an inch long. We can smell pretty well. A police drug dog? Theirs is literally about 3/4 of their *entire body length*. Just think about that. They can detect one molecule out of billions. Or trillions. Or maybe better for some drugs, I don't know, I haven't looked up the stats.
That and I watched the episode of Myth Busters where they tested police canines. I mean for real, I don't think it's possible to trick those dogs for some drugs. Maybe even most drugs, but that much I'm not comfortable saying with any certainty.
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I don't think it's possible to trick those dogs for some drugs. Maybe even most drugs, but that much I'm not comfortable saying with any certainty.
I don't think anyone is saying you can stick a dog in a room with a hidden bag of mj and the dog will never detect it. It's a time bomb situation - will the dog encounter the package long enough into the package's history that molecule seep will give it away? Add or subtract time for layers, type, specifics of product, and temperature. To me it's *clear* that sufficiently careful packaging can - at points in a package's history - get past the dog, or else there would be no such thing as a pin test. You wouldn't need it.
On the overall subject, new consideration: if you do get a love letter under your real name, is your address burnt for SR or are *you*? (Unless you're John Smith for reals)
I feel like making up an SR advice flowchart, given that personal and national circumstances point to different pros and cons for various options. It seems like some situations come down rather firmly on the side of fake name, real address. OTOH, I know some users require fake name, fake address, and for yet others, real name, real address may be the desirable or only option.
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I feel like making up an SR advice flowchart, given that personal and national circumstances point to different pros and cons for various options. It seems like some situations come down rather firmly on the side of fake name, real address. OTOH, I know some users require fake name, fake address, and for yet others, real name, real address may be the desirable or only option.
That's not a bad idea, and I'd be onboard to help out (if you need/want help).
My inner geek loves flow charts!
My only qualm is cleaning the image file sufficiently to post it; I don't want to find out after-the-fact that my name and company name are embedded in the metadata. I've read the steps for cleaning images and was astounded at what I found on some random samples of old photos on my computer; GPS data, and even place names (not common places either) were the real jaw-droppers.
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I feel like making up an SR advice flowchart, given that personal and national circumstances point to different pros and cons for various options. It seems like some situations come down rather firmly on the side of fake name, real address. OTOH, I know some users require fake name, fake address, and for yet others, real name, real address may be the desirable or only option.
That's not a bad idea, and I'd be onboard to help out (if you need/want help).
My inner geek loves flow charts!
My only qualm is cleaning the image file sufficiently to post it; I don't want to find out after-the-fact that my name and company name are embedded in the metadata. I've read the steps for cleaning images and was astounded at what I found on some random samples of old photos on my computer; GPS data, and even place names (not common places either) were the real jaw-droppers.
Yep, gotta love those smart phones.
exiv2 rm <file>
That should take care of it. If you don't have the exiv2 program, just do the usual:
sudo apt-get install exiv2
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:-X [REDACTED]
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I was not boasting, just trying to make a point to someone who said that paying others to except packages was a dick move or something. My point was, I would not just send some scared kid a package containing illicit substances of an undisclosed quantity if they didn't know the risks, and agree to it up front. And going back to that, it is definitely something to consider if you're purchasing large packages from eyebrow raising states at any steady ordering volume.
Haven't gotten a chance to catch up on this thread, but I did comment as to why it might not work out well to do what you were suggesting in the OP. To each their own though! The best way to find out new ways to protect peoples mail, is to exploit the hell out of the mail system. I forget the URL, but someone posted the "hacking the postal service" video up here a few months ago, which can teach everyone a few tricks in order to receive mail faster, and safer. :)
GL
Again, nothing but respect, and I agree everyone has their own system that works best for them. Personally I feel like the postal service is an under-funded government entity that doesn't have the resources to adequately combat drugs-through-the-mail. As long as vendors follow the shipping guidelines and buyers aren't using fake names/addresses that don't work, we will experience a 99% delivery rate. I guess the reason why everyone is quick to argue against using a fake name is because of the chance of the mail not being delivered, which is why I emphasized building a paper trail for months in advance using the fake name and not placing an order on SR until you had over 20 delivered letters/packages with a 100% success rate.
I saw a lot of good back and fourth on pages 2 and 3 and one thing that I wanted to comment on was the idea of possession, which is 9/10ths of the law, and the difference between walking out of a courtroom a free man or being convicted. In a criminal trial, the burden of proof is on the state, which means they have to prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that you indeed committed a crime. If a package has your name on it and it gets intercepted, that's a done deal, the proof is in the pudding. In the event that the package doesn't have your name on it, that's where we enter a grey area.
Let me highlight this point with a similar situation...I have read numerous cases about interstate drug trafficking (for obvious reasons). The most interesting to me is the rental car scenario. It seems that what a lot of drug traffickers in the South do is pick up a rental car to transport drugs in between states. That in itself isn't unusual, but what the smart traffickers do is once they have the rental car, they take it to a garage, remove the body panels, and then affix drugs to the chassis of the car. Once the car is loaded up, they reassemble the body panels and proceed to drive the car across several states to their destination, where it is once again dismantled, unloaded, reassembled, and returned. This is where it gets interesting...if they are really, really smart, they have a solid story set up. They don't have 5 cell phones on them and a bunch of cash. They have suitcases packed with clothes and dress like they are going on vacation. I have read cases about traffickers getting pulled over, drug dogs get called, dogs go crazy around the car, car is taken to station, drugs are discovered, everyone gets arrested. If the traffickers know what they are doing though, they insist that they had no idea the drugs were on the car. They were simply going on vacation. The best part?? They don't get convicted. The prosecution isn't able to prove that the drugs were theirs because IT'S NOT THEIR CAR. The defense attorney can make the argument that it is possible that a previous renter put the drugs on the car and forgot about them, or had to return the car in a hurry and couldn't unload the drugs in time. Since the car isn't registered under the traffickers name, they have a plausible defense, and I have read numerous cases where the jury had to let people in this exact situation walk away free.
It sounds unbelievable but it's true, and if you do a little digging you can find more information about what I'm talking about. Which is why I proposed this idea of building a paper trail of a false name for months before receiving a package from SR. It's such an easy defense, "I have been receiving mail for this name for months now and that person doesn't even live here! That's not my package!"
**DISCLAIMER**
I'd like to continually make it clear that this is all theory and I haven't applied any of these strategies in real life so I can't make the claim that this a fool-proof method. I continue to keep this thread going as an intelligent discussion for people to share ideas and experiences so we can all improve and grow as a community.
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:-X [REDACTED]
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I just went to get my mail yesterday, and i've never met my mail carrier once in my life face to face.
Before I had even gotten completely out of my car she shouted across the street "Hey <my name>, how's it going?"
I asked her, how the hell dd you know it was me (I was wearing a hat and my face was more or less covered. She told me she recognizes almost every person whose mail she delivers on her route before even looking at their face (which sounds ridiculous of course, but woman really did know my name before even looking at me, was crazy shit).. Granted i've lived at this residence for 25 years (with a 7 year ... 'leave of absence',), she she still knew exactly who I was right away (and she also drops off packages that don't fit in the box on our doorstep as a personal favour. I live in on of those subdivisions where it's those cluster mailboxes that housee the entire street's mail, and also small packages that fit in it's package compartments, not a street where the carrier deliver's mail house to house).
Use your real name people, using a fake name does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to protect your legal case should there be one. In fact it immediately eliminates the Plausible Deniability defense, and adds another charge of subverting the postal system by having mail sent to a fraudulent name (it might even be a felony in some states because it is a form of identity fraud).
If LE has a case against you, it'll have been initiated long before you chose what name to have your next package sent to, they'll have been tracking your mail for some time before then. On that note, LE will never have a case against you if you're receiving regular small package mail, they don't have the resources to deal with people smuggling 1/8th of weed and just don't care about you and your tiny orders. They need to find the person mailing you that 1/8th cuz that person is likely mailing several pounds a week, and everything you do that's suspicious (such as using a fake name) is putting your VENDOR at more risk then you are, they they are looking at hard time if caught, you're looking at a relative slap on the wrist.
If you live in an apartment where other residents somehow have access to seeing your mail that's also a red flag because Jerry in 102a is going to be like 'who the fuck is this Bob Smythe guy', come over to your place for a beer and be like ... that's not 'Bob Smythe', that's <your real name>. Almost no one is about to call the post office or cops based on seeing your mail with a different address on it, but there do exist crotchety old women with nothing better to do then fuck with other people's lives cuz their own is so miserable. There's simply no point taking any risk, there is NO ADVANTAGES to using a fake name, NONE !
If LE has some ongoing case against you, they don't give a fuck whose name you've decided to have it sent to, they've already had it searched by customs every time mail is delivered to you and know it's illegal contraband. When they bust in your door they're not gonna care if you're Bob Smythe, Mary Jane, Dylan Watson, <your real name? On that note, LE won't open a case against you unless they have damning evidence to believe you're having LARGE quantities of illegal contraband shipped to that address. They don't have the resources to treat every address as if it may be receiving contraband, and they definitely DO have MANY addresses which are already under their suspicion (1 kilogram MDMA vs. 10 tab's of MDMA ... and there's a lot more people in your local region smuggling in 1kg MDMA then you'd think) and it takes some time before they will even take action to that address because they don't want to lose at trial given the amount of $$$ they've invested into who they believe is having distributing quantity smuggled through mail.
Simple put, anyone not spending several thousand per order and making at least one such order a week is making themselves sound far more special then they really are. LE's don't have time or MONEY for you. I'm ranting cuz this place is seething with paranoia and fear, which i've come to learn is completely unnecessary and you'd be a lot happier/calmer if you just use common sense and consider that LEOs don't have unlimited budget's.
I'll add quickly, DO NOT USE THE PAST TENANT'S NAME !!!! Most people (well with half a brain) have their old address forwarded to their new one to receive any lingering mail that might still be getting send to their old residence. Further to that, your mail carrier is going to be like "hrmph, I remember <Mr. Old Tentant> moved out several weeks ago because of <reason old tenant gave postal carrier when they chatted at the mailbox, which happens every day>. Imagine using this old tenant's name to have drugs sent to the address your at for 6 months? If that aint suspicious to your mail carrier I don't know what is.
Most powerful way of securing your safety of not having your mail carrier STEAL your package, or report your package is to get along good with them and have brief and friendly conversations with them if you're driving by and see them putting out your mail for the day. The more normal, yet another boring white suburbanite they think you are the less likely it will ever cross their mind that any package from ANY country to you is suspicious. Avoid them at all costs, and wrapping yourself in a hoody when you see them, however, isn't going to bode well for you convincing them your just another normal person (and increase the liklihood they'll steal your mail cuz they'll know your uncomfortable/have something to hide).
It's different of course if it's crossing border's and needs to pass customs, you have little control over that other then how the vendor has packaged your order and if they've adhered to the 'normal standards' of mail syntax in your area (eg. in Canada EVERYBODY uses a return address, to my knowledge in the UK not very many people do and mail carrier's don't really care ... in Canada, without a return address that piece of mail sticks out, you don't want things sticking out).
The most dangerous part is crossing border's of course, but your mail carrier can be just as much a threat, EVEN IF IT'S A DOMESTIC ORDER ! If they're corrupt and feel they can steal your mail without you reporting them they will (because afterall, that mail was illegal drugs)/ lf If they think you're Joe Blow who everyone on the street know's, they'll just look for other addresses mail to steal to protect themselves against potential rumor's you might start in your neighborhood (thinking your just that 'normal guy who WOULD go talking shit about 'missing mail). Don't convince yourself they have no idea who you are, if you've lived somewhere long enough, they have the uncanny ability to recognize you even though they've never even seen you ... maybe they saw you on your porch one day (and they know your address ... so).
Sorry for this long ass tangent, I am just trying to convince people that as long as your careful (as in use basic common sense), you really don't need to burst a blood vessel with stress that some LE is gonna bust down your door cuz your ordered an 1/8th of weed. If the vendor packaged it like shit, well then they should be exposed and fix it right away (or leave/be banned) cuz that is the only case there would be for you to be concerned (but that's what the forums are for, they will tell you tonnes on almost every vendor, and their professional or unprofessional shipping style ... that and their feedback (though feedback can be faked through making shill accounts and buying your own products).
People just seem SO MUCH MORE PARANOID/FEARFUL then they really need to be. I'll tell you this much, my buyer stat's are 105/0.5%. You know where that 0.5% came from? Near the beginning of me using SR my friend convinced me to place an order for him ... to A FAKE NAME. Neither of his packages ever arrived, but since then all ... well over 90 packages have arrived to me safely cuz I just act like a normal person getting my mail. Fake names give you NO legal immunity, but in fact put up a red flag, eliminate your plausibility defense, and in many locations carry with them another and much more serious charge of identity AND mail fraud. So just use your real info, act like a normal tenant, and smoke some bowls for a few day's until your mail reaches you, it's not worth stressing yourself over something you have no control on, just use common sense.
Anyways, sorry for the essay, I just was at one point sick of people over and over going crazy over when the cops are gonna be at their door, but would rather just try and convince you with logic/common sense and examples of WHY THEY ARE NOT AFTER YOU so you can have some semblance of a peace of mind until your order arrives (of course you'll never be 100% unconcerned, just use common sense, act like a good neighbor and all will be well !)
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I saw a lot of good back and fourth on pages 2 and 3 and one thing that I wanted to comment on was the idea of possession, which is 9/10ths of the law, and the difference between walking out of a courtroom a free man or being convicted. In a criminal trial, the burden of proof is on the state, which means they have to prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that you indeed committed a crime. If a package has your name on it and it gets intercepted, that's a done deal, the proof is in the pudding. In the event that the package doesn't have your name on it, that's where we enter a grey area.
There is caselaw in Canada where the person's real name was on the package, the package was intercepted, controlled delivery was made and arrest executed but no conviction - the police arrested the dude before he opened the package, and the courts held that while the defendant did know he was receiving the package, there was insufficient evidence to prove that the defendant knew that there were drugs in the package, an essential element of the charge (again, in Canada).
Just sayin'
:)
Also: great discussion, really interesting to read :)
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how about using the name of someone who is dead like look in an obituary or something i mean hell there not using it
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how about using the name of someone who is dead like look in an obituary or something i mean hell there not using it
How would you recieve the package at their address?
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if the situation presents itself but most likely not not
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There is caselaw in Canada where the person's real name was on the package, the package was intercepted, controlled delivery was made and arrest executed but no conviction - the police arrested the dude before he opened the package, and the courts held that while the defendant did know he was receiving the package, there was insufficient evidence to prove that the defendant knew that there were drugs in the package, an essential element of the charge (again, in Canada).
Just sayin'
:)
Also: great discussion, really interesting to read :)
Thanks for sharing! I'm sure that's good to know for our many Canadian roaders!
Everything is circumstantial, I think the guy who responded to me last was talking about how his mailman knew his name even though he never saw his face. That may be true if you live in a small neighborhood and your mailman has been working the same block for 10 years. In that case, a fake name might be a bad idea. But I live in a big city in California, we have apartment complex's all over the place out here with tenants coming in and out every week...it would be impossible for the mailman to keep track of who is living in every unit of every apartment on every block. In that case, you might be able to use a fake name if you build up a paper trail; order some cheap magazine subscriptions using a gift card and have them delivered to your apartment, send yourself some letters with the fake name, move up to packages.
The point of this thread isn't to say "This is a 100% fool-proof method to use a fake name and everyone should do it"....it's meant to say "Here's an idea I had and how I would do it, use that information and apply it your situation and see if it's useful to you or not"
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Bumping for great justice!! (And so I can keep tabs on the conversation ;D)
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Why does everyone want to make this harder than necessary? I already have a legitimate business, in fact two, for years. So I took a very similar name from my existing one and added Ebay to it. Example;
Party Girl's Custom Party Arrangements, LLC (legit)
Address and stuff
Party Girl's - Ebay Sales
Attention: Joe Adams (A former employee or fake name) Only used for only SR and overseas orders.
Address and stuff
After 10 years, I have not lost or had a single package seized. There are some things to remember when using addresses and how the PO delivers/ sorts:
1) Mail first is directed by ZIPCODE
2) by TOWN
3) by STREET ADDRESS
4) And last and least important, by NAME. Why? People have roommates, people move, people get married, people visit, people sublet, etc. The NAME is the last thing the PO considers when attempting delivery.
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Why does everyone want to make this harder than necessary? I already have a legitimate business, in fact two, for years. So I took a very similar name from my existing one and added Ebay to it. Example;
Party Girl's Custom Party Arrangements, LLC (legit)
Address and stuff
Party Girl's - Ebay Sales
Attention: Joe Adams (A former employee or fake name) Only used for only SR and overseas orders.
Address and stuff
After 10 years, I have not lost or had a single package seized. There are some things to remember when using addresses and how the PO delivers/ sorts:
1) Mail first is directed by ZIPCODE
2) by TOWN
3) by STREET ADDRESS
4) And last and least important, by NAME. Why? People have roommates, people move, people get married, people visit, people sublet, etc. The NAME is the last thing the PO considers when attempting delivery.
Brilliant! Thank you for sharing :)
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Why does everyone want to make this harder than necessary? I already have a legitimate business, in fact two, for years. So I took a very similar name from my existing one and added Ebay to it. Example;
Party Girl's Custom Party Arrangements, LLC (legit)
Address and stuff
Party Girl's - Ebay Sales
Attention: Joe Adams (A former employee or fake name) Only used for only SR and overseas orders.
Address and stuff
After 10 years, I have not lost or had a single package seized. There are some things to remember when using addresses and how the PO delivers/ sorts:
1) Mail first is directed by ZIPCODE
2) by TOWN
3) by STREET ADDRESS
4) And last and least important, by NAME. Why? People have roommates, people move, people get married, people visit, people sublet, etc. The NAME is the last thing the PO considers when attempting delivery.
That's EXACTLY correct in how they process mail, I just wanted to add for Canadians, they'r really being pushy that your PMB # (Post Mailbox #) or PO Box #, etc. is right below your name and that they will automatically without question return to sender any packages that are not formatted with your PMB #/ PO Box # as the line immediately below your name, before the next line with street etc.
Obviously if it's not clear, the scanner's read from the bottom up on the address, so it's sort of silly that Canada has become so extreme that PMB # be so clearly written .... but at the second least important line lol (but it MUST be there and clearly written).
Good point about the naming too, didn't want to give mine away, but it's similar and you can use any fake businessmen you want as it's optional. That way you don't have to worry about a vendor knowing your real name if for some reason this is something you're worried about (you have them ship it to your business name), and it also makes the address look a bit more legit for receiving order's that aren't domestic IMO.
+1 for good info that's right on the money Party Girl
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subscribing
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Something very similar has already been done, People actually sell decoy packages on SR :o
But yes, It might work, Or it might go exactly the opposite way, You see it's you posting them, so wear gloves no saliva to lick the envelopes etc.
Your also looking at a federal charge for opening or accepting somebody elses mail if you deny that it was for you, and had the same envelopes lying around or anything to link you to the drop, even a security camera watching you drop it in the mailbox.
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Something very similar has already been done, People actually sell decoy packages on SR :o
But yes, It might work, Or it might go exactly the opposite way, You see it's you posting them, so wear gloves no saliva to lick the envelopes etc.
Your also looking at a federal charge for opening or accepting somebody elses mail if you deny that it was for you, and had the same envelopes lying around or anything to link you to the drop, even a security camera watching you drop it in the mailbox.
I wanted to comment on the "decoy" packages since I remember seeing that service awhile back and thinking it was a terrible idea. If you aren't on the radar, why would you want to be on the radar? In my opinion, nothing is more suspicious than receiving an envelope from another state that has been dusted with a detectable level of THC. Now you gave the post office a reason to watch your address when they had no reason to before. If I remember correctly the idea behind it was "once they check the envelope/package and realize there were no drugs, they won't check any packages sent in the future" or something along those lines. Unless a USPS employee can verify that is the standard operating procedure, I wouldn't count on that logic.
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Decoys are the worst idea ever. Why do some people think stealth means anything other than looking VERY NORMAL. The first pack I ever got there were all these "super stealth" ratings. I received a pack taped to the max (big no no) A return address for a town that does not exist from with a very weird name. THAT IS NOT STEALTH. Business to business is how I roll or I just use my real name and ask that it look like normal correspondence I get from people everyday. If vendors take care to just look freaking normal, vac seal or MBB the contents and use card stock in a smaller envelope inside to make the envelope smooth and not lumpy then receiving for me is gravy.
Give a good wait to open at another location. If LE is after that pack they will pounce as soon as you go to move it. Writing return to sender may help your story that you did not order and are refusing receipt. Keep it simple.
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So long as everything else is clean plausible deniability stands up the same for real name or fake name . If your plausible deniability is somehow otherwise comprimised then using a false name isnt going to help and clutching at false straws will only give a false sense of safety and the drop is best avoided altogether.
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I wanted to comment on the "decoy" packages since I remember seeing that service awhile back and thinking it was a terrible idea. If you aren't on the radar, why would you want to be on the radar? In my opinion, nothing is more suspicious than receiving an envelope from another state that has been dusted with a detectable level of THC. Now you gave the post office a reason to watch your address when they had no reason to before. If I remember correctly the idea behind it was "once they check the envelope/package and realize there were no drugs, they won't check any packages sent in the future" or something along those lines. Unless a USPS employee can verify that is the standard operating procedure, I wouldn't count on that logic.
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There is a great sticky in the shipping section from someone who actually worked as a postal inspector. I highly recommend all SR users read it. The details are thorough where CD is concerned.
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You really are taking a huge chance by using the name of a previous tenant or a fake name. Depends on a lot of factors, including how diligent your postal delivery person is.
What if you used a previous tenant's name and they have submitted a change of address?
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Not really a great idea
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I'd like to see you accept my volume of packages at your apartment alone.
Not to my home no...
But maybe to the new temp in my building that doesn't even know he has a mailbox :)
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Returning to this thread to say I've nixed the idea of a flowchart, because there was just no way to get past a few decision points that reasonable people can and do disagree on. A flowchart is supposed to indicate a well-worn path of best advice for procedures to follow. It would be a little deceptive to ingrain my personal take on best practices in this way. And I think we'd spend all our time arguing over those few branch points.
Also: dismayed to see this decoy suggestion. I just think this has LE thinking all ass-backward. There's a ton of people out there and limited LE resources (though the cameras everywhere plus increased computing power scares me, in the theoretical ability to target a suspect and then work *backward* tracking movements). Putting yourself on the radar for any reason is a bad idea, and strange thinking besides. "Hey, this guy keeps getting suspicious packages. Let's stop wasting time on him!" It just doesn't fly. Your "decoys" should be ordinary packages. eBay. Amazon. Parcels from friends and family. If any of those get opened: i) on probability alone, there's less chance one of your "special" deliveries takes the hit, and ii) there's legitimately no reason to target you further. "Hey Fred, why are you still shelving those oldtoby parcels?" "Handwritten labels." "What? Don't be stupid." vs. "Hey Tony, what's up with the oldtoby stockpile?" "Drug residue. Something's not right." "Ok, stay on him." It's completely fucking different. You wanna send a decoy, send it to your enemy, not your friends, not yourself.
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I haven't read this thread for... like a month or something, and I'm too lazy to go back and review it properly so that my comment is well informed, but for all you fellows out there who just can't seem to accept that using your real name is the best policy the majority of the time, I say this to you: when your address gets flagged as receiving numerous packages from known drug source states and someone takes a quick look at the sending and receiving addresses, if either one of them isn't registered to the residence, you warrant further inspection.
If they both check out and there's nothing else weird, the guy probably goes back to eating his donuts and checks the next flagged address. If you guys all concluded using your real name is best, kudos and ignore my comment. If you all still think you should use a fake name... well, make sure you re-sign your lease with that fake name or something too.
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Well this thread has had a good run, a lot of good ideas, some bad ones, and mostly great points made on both sides.
The fact that the thread has thousands of views is testament to the fact that members of the community are continuously interested in exploring potential new avenues for receiving packages safely.
Having been a vendor for about 4 months now with 100% delivery success rate I will close with these thoughts:
-99% of the time, using your real name and real address is the easiest and best way to receive packages. Most reputable vendors don't take stealth lightly and you can count on your package making it to you without anyone looking twice at it.
-If you are still concerned about security and really paranoid about the name on the package; do what was suggested a page or so ago; register a real business, register a PO Box for the business, and then have packages sent C/O [care of] a fake name. You can claim it was a former employee if shit hits the fan.
-My original post might still work in theory, but nobody has tested it. If you have the time to test it, by all means, I encourage you to. But otherwise, the above 2 points will most likely be the most useful information.
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The simple truth is receiving (drug)packages regardless of where it occurs(home/work/po box/college dorm, etc) can never be done "safely". It will always be a risky endeavor and all anyone can do is try to minimize the risk. Oh, and by the way I should mention probably the riskiest place to receive packages would be at your home or residence. If you don't want to take my word for it just ask the two guys featured in this story --> http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2013/02/tulane_students_arrested_after.html or ask this guy--> http://weirderweb.com/2013/02/26/florida-man-busted-silk-road-promptly-deletes-all-his-posts/
Don't be lulled into a false sense or feeling of security just because you've never been caught having packages delivered to you at home. Just because you haven't been caught doesn't mean it's safe.
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Great thread. Pretty new here. I've been using my real name. I am in the UK. I will continue to do this for the foreseeable future. Just posting here to subscribe.
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Hey SS,
Been reading with intrest here, As far as fake names and addresses go , ***Fakenamegenerator.com *** CLEARNET LINK can rig you up thousands in a matter of seconds with all sorts of fake details to go along beside them.
Now here's what i was hoping you could help me with, Cleaning out my Pc properly, This is a really old one and to be honest there could be anything imprinted in the metadata and shit on this thing, Real name anything, Anyways looking for some advice on cleaning out the whole system thoroughly without data nuke (dban) or something along the lines.
Cheers mate Hff
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The simple truth is receiving (drug)packages regardless of where it occurs(home/work/po box/college dorm, etc) can never be done "safely". It will always be a risky endeavor and all anyone can do is try to minimize the risk. Oh, and by the way I should mention probably the riskiest place to receive packages would be at your home or residence. If you don't want to take my word for it just ask the two guys featured in this story --> http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2013/02/tulane_students_arrested_after.html or ask this guy--> http://weirderweb.com/2013/02/26/florida-man-busted-silk-road-promptly-deletes-all-his-posts/
Don't be lulled into a false sense or feeling of security just because you've never been caught having packages delivered to you at home. Just because you haven't been caught doesn't mean it's safe.
Thanks for the links! The second one is especially interesting.
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The simple truth is receiving (drug)packages regardless of where it occurs(home/work/po box/college dorm, etc) can never be done "safely". It will always be a risky endeavor and all anyone can do is try to minimize the risk. Oh, and by the way I should mention probably the riskiest place to receive packages would be at your home or residence. If you don't want to take my word for it just ask the two guys featured in this story --> http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2013/02/tulane_students_arrested_after.html or ask this guy--> http://weirderweb.com/2013/02/26/florida-man-busted-silk-road-promptly-deletes-all-his-posts/
Don't be lulled into a false sense or feeling of security just because you've never been caught having packages delivered to you at home. Just because you haven't been caught doesn't mean it's safe.
+1
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Hey SS,
Been reading with intrest here, As far as fake names and addresses go , ***Fakenamegenerator.com *** CLEARNET LINK can rig you up thousands in a matter of seconds with all sorts of fake details to go along beside them.
Now here's what i was hoping you could help me with, Cleaning out my Pc properly, This is a really old one and to be honest there could be anything imprinted in the metadata and shit on this thing, Real name anything, Anyways looking for some advice on cleaning out the whole system thoroughly without data nuke (dban) or something along the lines.
Cheers mate Hff
Apologies for the wait; I don't check every thread I've ever responded to. Just what looks interesting at the time; nothing personal & all that. So anyway, it can't be done. I mean period, it cannot be done. You can't keep all the operating system files intact and only get rid of incriminating evidence. Basically you have to destroy the entire partition the operating system is installed on. If it's Windows, I mean -- I don't think there's anybody around who has enough experience with Windows to actually tell you where and how it can keep track of stuff you don't want others to see... but I doubt anyone except the forensics experts that do contract work for the government are qualified to help you out with that.
I most certainly am not. I only own a copy of Windows to play games with and nothing more -- operating systems are huge and you don't get that level of detailed knowledge without digging into them, which I haven't done for Windows. If you're talking about a Linux installation, delete the Tor browser bundle. Which really isn't that necessary anyway. That's it, done. Just be sure you delete the right directories, which are all under the "tor-browser_en-US" directory that comes out of the browser bundle tarball.
If you haven't been selling anything, I don't see a reason to bother with either. They either arrest you for possession, or they let you walk because they have no grounds to arrest you. They don't look that hard at people just buying for personal use. Not that they wouldn't if they could, they just don't have the manpower.
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Red flags are just anything suspicious about a package, and while everybody apparently has their own version of the list, there's very specific ones that all mail carriers (in the US at least) seem to share.
A few examples:
Hand written labels.
Addressed to an individual, from an individual.
Generic recipient name (John Doe, Jeff Smith, etc.).
No recipient name.
Name of recipient or sender not tied to either address.
Mailed from a zip code that differs from the return address zip code.
Stains on the package.
Secured or closed with tape.
Any noticeable smell (not just drug smells, any smell)
... And so on. Nobody really knows how many red flags you have to rack up to get your package opened & inspected due to a warrant. It probably varies by day, mood of the inspector, etc.. That's from memory; there are more, but for some reason nobody ever really gives the full list. I assume there's a good reason for that... but I don't know what it is. You can google drug package profile and find it without much trouble though.
That's enough info, I think.
Also don't ship packages with sequential tracking numbers to separate post office