Silk Road forums
Discussion => Off topic => Topic started by: Adasel on December 05, 2012, 06:56 pm
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I am so sick and fucking tired of the way the modern western, capitalist society operates without regret or remorse. Bank managers fuck up and make mistakes, guess what, they get a huge fucking bonus totaling in and probably over half a million pound.
They fuck with our money and can afford to buy two homes, two cars and cheat with our taxes.
The BP oil disaster. What the fuck has happened since BP spilled all that oil and ruined the area wildlife and destroyed the livelihoods of hundreds who fish there?, FUCK ALL. People are SITLL waiting for payouts.
Just before i go, i would like to make a point on car construction within the uk.
I was watching an episode of Top Gear recently, and i believe they said that in 1914 in the uk, there were something like 137 car companies that produced, sold world over and made us money.
Do you know how many car companies there are that are uk based and sell within the uk economy now??
absolutely fucking none. Its just not the cars, its that the uk does not produce and sell anything anymore.
We exported ALL of our business. And who suffers for that?, we do, the little man.
Seriously if nothing gets done about this i might have to start thinking of plans.
Feel free to answer or not, i just needed somewhere to post this and this is where it felt best.
Thanks.
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What the fuck has happened since BP spilled all that oil and ruined the area wildlife and destroyed the livelihoods of hundreds who fish there?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/bp-to-pay-billions-in-gulf-oil-spill-settlement/2012/11/15/ba0b783a-2f2e-11e2-9f50-0308e1e75445_story.html
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in the majority you're probably preaching to the choir so rant away! i'm hoping you've seen the 2003 documentary 'the corporation' ? if not then its a must watch in my opinion. you said
Seriously if nothing gets done about this i might have to start thinking of plans.
what kind of plans? capitalism has us all basically under one giant huge shitty thumb, businesses are getting us from a young age now and force feeding us advertisements to breed good little consumerists that mindlessly desire pointless crap. there are ways to opt out of it though or at least reduce the amount in which we partake in this downward travelling spiral
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What the fuck has happened since BP spilled all that oil and ruined the area wildlife and destroyed the livelihoods of hundreds who fish there?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/bp-to-pay-billions-in-gulf-oil-spill-settlement/2012/11/15/ba0b783a-2f2e-11e2-9f50-0308e1e75445_story.html
Sorry, my original point was that BP has to this day failed to pay out the total sum they owe because fisherman and the like are still waiting.
As for my plans of action i honestly do not know. I have a lot of ideas but nothing violent.
We just need ways to make these greedy corporations listen and start looking out more for the "average human", and you KNOW that thats how they see us.
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Some years ago Germany made a conscious decision to retain and invest in it's manufacturing sector, in the belief that a strong manufacturing sector is an essential part of a healthy economy. Where as Britain thought we could rely solely on our IT, banking, service and other non-material sectors. There is hardly anything left of our manufacturing industries, only the more high-end, luxury parts remain. :(
You make a good point Adasel.
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Some years ago Germany made a conscious decision to retain and invest in it's manufacturing sector, in the belief that a strong manufacturing sector is an essential part of a healthy economy. Where as Britain thought we could rely solely on our IT, banking, service and other non-material sectors. There is hardly anything left of our manufacturing industries, only the more high-end, luxury parts remain. :(
You make a good point Adasel.
Thanks. I am just so glad i am not the only one who is angry. An episode of Top Gear pointed out recently that in 1947 the uk economy had in the region of 137 car manufacturing firms.
As of now, we produce absolutely nothing. Practically everything is outsourced thanks to the likes of Margret Thatcher and the conservative party, who pretty much only care about making the rich richer, even if that means undercutting those who have to pay their fucking taxes for them.
As for making plans, that big capitalist thumb you speak of, just makes them more exposed and vulnerable.
And you know what, anyone who uses TOR is practically invisible.
To me, the odds look pretty good for our side.
A group is in the works if anyone is interested in making a difference.
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Some years ago Germany made a conscious decision to retain and invest in it's manufacturing sector, in the belief that a strong manufacturing sector is an essential part of a healthy economy. Where as Britain thought we could rely solely on our IT, banking, service and other non-material sectors. There is hardly anything left of our manufacturing industries, only the more high-end, luxury parts remain. :(
You make a good point Adasel.
Thanks. I am just so glad i am not the only one who is angry. An episode of Top Gear pointed out recently that in 1947 the uk economy had in the region of 137 car manufacturing firms.
As of now, we produce absolutely nothing. Practically everything is outsourced thanks to the likes of Margret Thatcher and the conservative party, who pretty much only care about making the rich richer, even if that means undercutting those who have to pay their fucking taxes for them.
As for making plans, that big capitalist thumb you speak of, just makes them more exposed and vulnerable.
And you know what, anyone who uses TOR is practically invisible.
To me, the odds look pretty good for our side.
A group is in the works if anyone is interested in making a difference.
Is that group for Brits only?
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I don't like capitalism either. Big companies like the banks and insurance corporations manipulate the law and bribe politicians and get away with everything. Banks get bailed out while honest people who lose their job are kicked out of their houses. Our country is run by criminal scum.
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I don't like capitalism either. Big companies like the banks and insurance corporations manipulate the law and bribe politicians and get away with everything. Banks get bailed out while honest people who lose their job are kicked out of their houses. Our country is run by criminal scum.
That is exactly what the group stands against.
We were recently discussing the possibility of using non violent attacks against companies like BP.
Not anything necessarily damaging but just enough to get people to listen.
And its not just for brits. It is designed to be global, so anyone who stands against capitalism need join.
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Okay i have just been given the go-ahead to release the recruitment email if anyone is still interested and thinks they can help the group.
Its echofalls@tormail.org.
Thanks for reading!
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I don't like capitalism either. Big companies like the banks and insurance corporations manipulate the law and bribe politicians and get away with everything. Banks get bailed out while honest people who lose their job are kicked out of their houses. Our country is run by criminal scum.
That is exactly what the group stands against.
We were recently discussing the possibility of using non violent attacks against companies like BP.
Not anything necessarily damaging but just enough to get people to listen.
And its not just for brits. It is designed to be global, so anyone who stands against capitalism need join.
Count me in :)
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I don't like capitalism either. Big companies like the banks and insurance corporations manipulate the law and bribe politicians and get away with everything. Banks get bailed out while honest people who lose their job are kicked out of their houses. Our country is run by criminal scum.
That is exactly what the group stands against.
We were recently discussing the possibility of using non violent attacks against companies like BP.
Not anything necessarily damaging but just enough to get people to listen.
And its not just for brits. It is designed to be global, so anyone who stands against capitalism need join.
Count me in :)
Thanks Ballzinator. This is getting quite a lot of interest. Although i am desperately trying to find an alternative to having to communicate through tormail, personally i think it is shit and sometimes takes me five attempts to log into it.
I am trying to persuade them to use some for of anonymous IRC. Tor gives the anonymity we need, but it is a real pain in the ass to set up.
Anyone have ideas for alternatives?
Not everyone who joins a group is going to be technically minded.
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I don't like capitalism either. Big companies like the banks and insurance corporations manipulate the law and bribe politicians and get away with everything. Banks get bailed out while honest people who lose their job are kicked out of their houses. Our country is run by criminal scum.
That is exactly what the group stands against.
We were recently discussing the possibility of using non violent attacks against companies like BP.
Not anything necessarily damaging but just enough to get people to listen.
And its not just for brits. It is designed to be global, so anyone who stands against capitalism need join.
Count me in :)
Thanks Ballzinator. This is getting quite a lot of interest. Although i am desperately trying to find an alternative to having to communicate through tormail, personally i think it is shit and sometimes takes me five attempts to log into it.
I am trying to persuade them to use some for of anonymous IRC. Tor gives the anonymity we need, but it is a real pain in the ass to set up.
Anyone have ideas for alternatives?
Not everyone who joins a group is going to be technically minded.
We could just create a new channel on SR's IRC server.
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I`m sorry OP but what you describe is not capitalism. Also if your looking to find a manufacturing job I recommend heading over to China, in the UK if you want a good paying job you need specific skill sets.
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What your describing would be considered corporatism, a collectivist economics system. Capitalism is egalitarian in nature, completely other side of the spectrum. I studied this stuff for a number of years and I would say I have a decent understanding of it..
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I`m sorry OP but what you describe is not capitalism. Also if your looking to find a manufacturing job I recommend heading over to China, in the UK if you want a good paying job you need specific skill sets.
After what you just said there i am ignoring any further comment you make.
Go to China and get a job?, yeah right, if it was that fucking easy none of us would be out of work.
Stop trying to make yourself sound clever and go do some research on real life before EVER posting here again. At least, if you want to get noticed.
Ballzinator, i like the sound of your idea, i will look into it bro!.
Thanks!
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I`m sorry OP but what you describe is not capitalism. Also if your looking to find a manufacturing job I recommend heading over to China, in the UK if you want a good paying job you need specific skill sets.
After what you just said there i am ignoring any further comment you make.
Go to China and get a job?, yeah right, if it was that fucking easy none of us would be out of work.
Stop trying to make yourself sound clever and go do some research on real life before EVER posting here again. At least, if you want to get noticed.
Ballzinator, i like the sound of your idea, i will look into it bro!.
Thanks!
Go to China and get a job! ??? Fuck me, why didn't I think of that! ;D
@ trc - I think we all understood what Adasel was getting at when he said Capitalism. (I'm not having a go :) )
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I`m sorry OP but what you describe is not capitalism. Also if your looking to find a manufacturing job I recommend heading over to China, in the UK if you want a good paying job you need specific skill sets.
After what you just said there i am ignoring any further comment you make.
Go to China and get a job?, yeah right, if it was that fucking easy none of us would be out of work.
Stop trying to make yourself sound clever and go do some research on real life before EVER posting here again. At least, if you want to get noticed.
Ballzinator, i like the sound of your idea, i will look into it bro!.
Thanks!
He has a point. Why do you think China has the jobs? Chinese people will work for less, it costs less because there's less regulation and there's more exploitation of youth and slave labor.
It's similar to the argument that people make about corporations destroying small businesses. The corporations are not to blame. People don't give a fuck where their money goes they just want to pay less money for the same shit.
If you want better manufacturing jobs in the UK then you would need to stop the millions of consumers who want to buy their cars from China because it's cheaper.
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You guys realize that Silk Road is probably the most capitalistic marketplace in the world, right?
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You guys realize that Silk Road is probably the most capitalistic marketplace in the world, right?
(takes a drag on his joint): You don't know what you're talking about maaaan. The evil corporations are raping the world of all its money!
Look, I agree that Capitalism isn't perfect, but I don't see any alternative to it. People need incentives in order to get things done efficiently. And OP, your argument isn't really about Capitalism at all, but rather an extreme form of it (free-market Capitalism):
Capitalism: "is an economic system that is based on private ownership of the means of production and the production of goods or services for profit" (doesn't sound that bad at all, considering the alternative).
Free-market Capitalism: refers to an economic system where prices for goods and services are set freely by the forces of supply and demand and are allowed to reach their point of equilibrium without intervention by government policy (hmm this sounds strangely familiar...)
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Today's modern western capitalist society is so far removed from what could be called a free-market that claiming it to be so is ridiculous.
Corporate welfare in the form of banker bail-outs is a form of government intervention in the market, thereby interfering with prices set by supply and demand.
I think your rant is against the symptoms of western government.
I think most of us agree about the problems of the symptoms, whatever the cause. But we may disagree on the cause and end goals.
I don't think damaging private property is an answer, the cost would be passed to the consumer or employee. Do you think the investor is going to take the hit?
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I`m sorry OP but what you describe is not capitalism. Also if your looking to find a manufacturing job I recommend heading over to China, in the UK if you want a good paying job you need specific skill sets.
After what you just said there i am ignoring any further comment you make.
Go to China and get a job?, yeah right, if it was that fucking easy none of us would be out of work.
Stop trying to make yourself sound clever and go do some research on real life before EVER posting here again. At least, if you want to get noticed.
Ballzinator, i like the sound of your idea, i will look into it bro!.
Thanks!
He has a point. Why do you think China has the jobs? Chinese people will work for less, it costs less because there's less regulation and there's more exploitation of youth and slave labor.
It's similar to the argument that people make about corporations destroying small businesses. The corporations are not to blame. People don't give a fuck where their money goes they just want to pay less money for the same shit.
If you want better manufacturing jobs in the UK then you would need to stop the millions of consumers who want to buy their cars from China because it's cheaper.
He has no point whatsoever. Thanks to the way modern capitalism works i cannot just simply dump my job, stop paying my mortgage and fly off to a country in the far east.
Be a bit more realistic and then i may have something to add to that.
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I`m sorry OP but what you describe is not capitalism. Also if your looking to find a manufacturing job I recommend heading over to China, in the UK if you want a good paying job you need specific skill sets.
After what you just said there i am ignoring any further comment you make.
Go to China and get a job?, yeah right, if it was that fucking easy none of us would be out of work.
Stop trying to make yourself sound clever and go do some research on real life before EVER posting here again. At least, if you want to get noticed.
Ballzinator, i like the sound of your idea, i will look into it bro!.
Thanks!
He has a point. Why do you think China has the jobs? Chinese people will work for less, it costs less because there's less regulation and there's more exploitation of youth and slave labor.
It's similar to the argument that people make about corporations destroying small businesses. The corporations are not to blame. People don't give a fuck where their money goes they just want to pay less money for the same shit.
If you want better manufacturing jobs in the UK then you would need to stop the millions of consumers who want to buy their cars from China because it's cheaper.
He has no point whatsoever. Thanks to the way modern capitalism works i cannot just simply dump my job, stop paying my mortgage and fly off to a country in the far east.
Be a bit more realistic and then i may have something to add to that.
You could quit your job, you're the one that got the mortgage that was your choice and you could fly to china. Anyway, the point was that you're not entitled to a 'good' or 'fair' job in terms of wage. What specifically is to blame for the jobs being in China instead of the UK then?
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You could quit your job, you're the one that got the mortgage that was your choice and you could fly to china. Anyway, the point was that you're not entitled to a 'good' or 'fair' job in terms of wage. What specifically is to blame for the jobs being in China instead of the UK then?
I am going to make my point, and then stop posting to your comments.
There are no jobs in the UK simply because the labour party decided to open the floodgates to the whole of the European Union. Meaning, we have Polish, Lithuanian, Czechoslovakian, Ukranian et alll coming to our country for work, willing to do a job for the peanut of a price. In other words, a good builder/bricklayer here can earn a cool 150 gbp a day, but now they are employing people from the east at around30-50 gbp a day.
And, in the case of all recessions, it is the trades that get hit hard and fast, first.
If you do not live in the uk then basically you do not understand the way things are and have no say.
Fly to China, fuck me yeah right. Instead of that if i won the lottery tomorrow id go and live in spain where now, it is more like the uk in the 80's than the modern bastardization of today.
DONT try and tell me my own countries economics and do not come out with stupid fucking comments like "yeah go to the far east and get a job!".
The eastern Europeans come here because we made it that easy for them to do so, cheap flights, road transport you name it.
Anyway, post again when you have something sensible to say.
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You could quit your job, you're the one that got the mortgage that was your choice and you could fly to china. Anyway, the point was that you're not entitled to a 'good' or 'fair' job in terms of wage. What specifically is to blame for the jobs being in China instead of the UK then?
I am going to make my point, and then stop posting to your comments.
There are no jobs in the UK simply because the labour party decided to open the floodgates to the whole of the European Union. Meaning, we have Polish, Lithuanian, Czechoslovakian, Ukranian et alll coming to our country for work, willing to do a job for the peanut of a price. In other words, a good builder/bricklayer here can earn a cool 150 gbp a day, but now they are employing people from the east at around30-50 gbp a day.
And, in the case of all recessions, it is the trades that get hit hard and fast, first.
If you do not live in the uk then basically you do not understand the way things are and have no say.
Fly to China, fuck me yeah right. Instead of that if i won the lottery tomorrow id go and live in spain where now, it is more like the uk in the 80's than the modern bastardization of today.
DONT try and tell me my own countries economics and do not come out with stupid fucking comments like "yeah go to the far east and get a job!".
The eastern Europeans come here because we made it that easy for them to do so, cheap flights, road transport you name it.
Anyway, post again when you have something sensible to say.
First, I'm from the UK. I don't think I'm being clear on my point. EU immigrants will work the same job for less, you're right. So the employer has two choices:
1) They hire the immigrant and then probably sell their product cheaper or:
2) They hire the guy who wants paid more and then they will probably sell the product for a higher price.
So company A chooses 1 and company B chooses option 2. If they actually cared they wouldn't give their business to company A. When it comes down to it, consumers don't give a fuck about where the products come from otherwise they wouldn't be giving all their money to China or the companies that hire EU immigrants. The consumers have spoken and they said "Fuck him, I want my dvd player for £10 less".
So if you want a well paying job in the manufacturing industry: in the UK either find demographic that are willing to pay extra for a product that's made in the UK or ... move to China.
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Adasel, theirs people willing to work for less than you, this means you can upgrade your level of education or do anything which makes you more valuable or you can work for less. No one owes you a job.
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One member of the ILF is definitely lolling this argument between Nugget and Adasel, cuz it's just so damned capitalistic!
Yeah, so, uh, guys ... let's just go back to basics here. The difference between corporatism and capitalism isn't, for our purposes, very useful. The ideal capitalism that everyone gets all horny over is probably a stylized version of the American 1950's plus a pinch of being-kept-honest-by-the-people-around-you. (For a great and brief description of this ideal American capitalism, read Garrison Keillor in _Lake Wobegone Days_ ... but for the sake of the here and now, this is the crux of the matter: The guy who makes the eyeglasses in town doesn't exactly always have the best selection, nor does he necessarily have the best prices -- you could go to St Paul for that. But the town optician also is the town's EMS, so if you need help one night, it behooves you to have patronized him in the past.) In other words, you know and you care for the people around you, and they know and they care for you, so you do good work in which you take pride, and your town gets along swimmingly.
Great.
But real-world capitalism -- the kind with capital and means of production and profits and stock markets -- comes along and says, "Your life sucks because you don't have cool things. Why don't you take up this new way of life? You won't be part of a community any more, and you will pay, with money, for every single move you make; but it's totally worth it because, like, seriously, how steaze is it to have an iPhone?" And you really don't have a choice, for if you happen to belong to a community that's not already on board, you will be put on board with a quickness. Literally, in chains, on board a ship crossing an ocean.
Okay, yeah, that was a long time ago. Except for it's happening right now to the Bayaka people in Cameroon.
Okay, but still, whatever, they're not the UKers who have lost out on jobs, and that's what we're talking about here, people, right? "Jobs, jobs, jobs" as the politicians chant. The point is, Nugget's cynicism is correct. "We" the general public don't care about labor standards, because we only care about saving as much money as possible; and so if we can buy our goods cheaper cuz they're made with slave labor, we really don't care. We have proven that by our track record. We didn't even have to say a word. But the reason isn't just because we the general public are selfish. The truth is, we the general public *could* be not selfish, but our entire system is set up to be selfish from the beginning.
We didn't ask to come into this life, and we certainly didn't ask to come into this economic system; but if we want to continue living, which we are required to do in almost all nations on earth (that is, there is no active right to die) unless we choose the serious amount of pain and/or the almost universal taboo in committing suicide, we are forced to use money. (Okay, you can go live indigenous, and I WHOLEHEARTEDLY agree with that, but, again, I'd like to point out that the imperialists are not stopping anytime soon.) So if living equals money, which it does, then it makes sense that we are motivated to hold on to as much life (money) as possible; and if it means someone works as a slave, well, then, we the general public tell ourselves, "There's nothing I can do. Every man is for himself. It's a zero-sum game. Ah, well, it's probably not that bad to work in that factory, really, I mean, if you're stupid or Chinese or whatever. They're not like us anyway." Whatever it is we tell ourselves to get by. It's what we tell ourselves about the "problem" of immigration too: These newcomers are not like us; they are dirty; they are lowering "our" standards. It seems to me a limited definition of the word "us." MLK said that if any of us (meaning all of humanity) is a captive, then none of us is free. But it looks like a lot of people don't really feel that.
And yet we still are miserable, both because we have been selfish and untrue to our best nature and because we cannot find happiness in consumerism anyway. The lie of capitalism --of modernity in general-- is that stuff will make you feel better than community. It is to me so EVIDENTLY a lie that I am surprised anyone is left still arguing it. (Does anyone need proof of our collective despair? Depression/obesity/alcoholism rates skyrocketing in the "modern" world? Third leading cause of death in Americans aged 0-24 is suicide!? Seriously guys?! Just checking!)
But here we are, trying not to despair, for we are altering our brain chemistry. Thank the West for the Road. Okay, yes, the Silk Road is a market, and it is competitive. But because it exists outside of real, physical place, and because it is, here's the big one, voluntary, it is unlike any economic system we've invented words for. It is radical. I dream of a world which can somehow be real and physical, connected to the natural world, and each other, and also voluntary. (Yeah, I know, it's not "voluntary" to be alive, to need to eat, to need sleep and shelter ... but the goal, I think, is to find a harmony, a beauty, between how you must live and how you would choose to live.)
So I guess I am ready to move on. Let's get past this whole zero-sum game thing, what say you?
THAT is this member of the ILF's rant on capitalism!
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( I'm not allowed to comment cause not from da UK, but I do not care >:D )
There are no jobs in the UK simply because the labour party decided to open the floodgates to the whole of the European Union. Meaning, we have Polish, Lithuanian, Czechoslovakian, Ukranian et alll coming to our country for work, willing to do a job for the peanut of a price. In other words, a good builder/bricklayer here can earn a cool 150 gbp a day, but now they are employing people from the east at around30-50 gbp a day.
"East-Europeans coming in and stealing 'our' jobs and getting payed way less". This is simply not true.
Employers are required by law to pay at least minimum-wage, doesn't matter where the employee is from. In fact I'm pretty sure this is the case in the UK, because it's basically EU-wide legislation. Of course there are some employees who pay their workers a lower, off the books, wage but it does not have anything to do with East-Europeans specifically.
The problem is the mentality, work ethics if you will, that (most) people in the 'Western' world have developed over the years.
People don't work more than required, call in sick for every crap-ass excuse imaginable, constantly question authority, rather sit at home than do manual labor and Eastern-Europeans are simply better, higher, educated than 'we' are. This mentality problem also drains down to people picking a 10$ cheaper product from China over something that's made within the borders. They simply do not care, know (or want to know) or even think about it.
"Aww yeaaa this saves 8gbp now I can get me some extra fish 'n chips hurr hurrdurrrrr, let's watch some more talentshow durrdurrdurrr"
Eastern-Europeans are not payed less, they COST less. Why? Because they are: never sick, don't complain, do what they are told, work hard and have followed a decent education. Yes, communication is harder because they don't speak English (at least fluentl). But in a few years this will be a non-issue, the level of education in Poland for example is getting on par with that in the UK.
Something to think about is that Poland had their first free election in 1991(!) but are already surpassing the UK in many fields.
One example: You are obliged to stay in school till a certain age, for the UK this is 16. After that you can choose whether to continue (and gain more knowledge etc..) or quit school and start working/collecting welfare. Within 2 years after that age, 52% of students in the UK are attending a school. In comparison with 'the job stealing countries' :
Poland 90%
Slovakia 90+%
Czech Rep. 95%
Lithuania 95%
Even in Turkey more people attend schools after they are no longer required; 65%
Sure, employees from the UK (or any other country, for that matter) prefer to hire their fellow Brits. But they simply lack mentality, this is in fact a problem seen in a lot of countries and one of the main reasons Eastern-Europeans are so 'popular'. It's simple supply and demand; employers want hard working employees and they are found in Eastern-Europe. With the EU joining of the 8 countries in 2004 those countries could also move workers freely through Europe and meet the demand.
This is what's wrong in the UK:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-20317983
New figures show there were more than 2,000 unfilled vacancies at Jobcentre Plus in September - 70% of which were full-time positions.
Meanwhile, about 5,000 people aged 18 to 24 in Hull are claiming jobseekers' allowance at any one time.
::)
Damned socialists and their welfare.
I will now end my amphetamine infused rambling :P
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"East-Europeans coming in and stealing 'our' jobs and getting payed way less". This is simply not true.
Employers are required by law to pay at least minimum-wage, doesn't matter where the employee is from. In fact I'm pretty sure this is the case in the UK, because it's basically EU-wide legislation. Of course there are some employees who pay their workers a lower, off the books, wage but it does not have anything to do with East-Europeans specifically.
I can tell you are not from the uk, because if you were, quite frankly, would not have made that statement.
Every man woman and child you speak to in the streets in either, Ireland, England, Scotland and wales will tell you the same thing. Too many eastern europeans living here. The rest of the world does not cover the news in detail in regards to the uk and too often false information is leaked by press in other countries, especially countries like greece, italy, portugal and especially the united states.
I am not going to argue, i live here, i see it and deal with it every single day.
The TRUE fact is that, as the government announced last week or so, HALF, of the population of the uk as a whole, is based now on immigration. I would care you to do a bit more research and listen to someone who actually lives here than to claim on so called facts from a foreign nation.
I agree that we also made mistakes that did not help our economy, the very fact that we make absolutely nothing to export now does not help, everything we do has been outsourced to other countries.
It was started before maggie thatcher came into power but she didnt make it any better.
In 1914 there were over 100 different car manufacturing firms here in the uk. Guess how many there are now? ZERO
Absolutely fucking zero.
All of this, AND the fact of immigration is what fucks me off about capitalism. It makes people greedy, angry and willing to take one up on fellow man in order to make a penny in a pound.
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The TRUE fact is that, as the government announced last week or so, HALF, of the population of the uk as a whole, is based now on immigration. I would care you to do a bit more research and listen to someone who actually lives here than to claim on so called facts from a foreign nation.
2011 Census stats for England and Wales:
"White was the majority ethnic group at 48.2 million in 2011 (86.0 per cent). Within this ethnic group, White British1 was the largest group at 45.1 million (80.5 per cent)."
"In 2011 13 per cent (7.5 million) of usual residents of England and Wales were born outside the UK; in 2001 this was 9 per cent (4.6 million)."
Source: http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/census/2011-census/key-statistics-for-local-authorities-in-england-and-wales/rpt-ethnicity.html
You're talking shite. I can understand if you're frustrated with the behavior of RBS etc or frustrated that we just can't compete with other counties at this point in time but... immigration?
Sounds like 'Daily Mail' rhetoric to me. Care to cite your "research" ?
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You are really going to stand there and quote me census figures??
Fuck me i might as well ask my local council leader how many immigrants we have living here.
Not on top of the fact of all the irish traverllers who dont bother signing a census form, what makes you think for one fucking second that any immigrant that comes into this country will or will not sign a census form?
Yeah you are right im angry because the figures for the amount of people living in the uk changes year by year, it is only NOW that the true figures are starting to come out.
Try reading less Daily Mail and start watching more parliament channel or programs that actually tell the truth.
Jesus fucking christ.
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You are really going to stand there and quote me census figures??
Fuck me i might as well ask my local council leader how many immigrants we have living here.
Not on top of the fact of all the irish traverllers who dont bother signing a census form, what makes you think for one fucking second that any immigrant that comes into this country will or will not sign a census form?
Yeah you are right im angry because the figures for the amount of people living in the uk changes year by year, it is only NOW that the true figures are starting to come out.
Try reading less Daily Mail and start watching more parliament channel or programs that actually tell the truth.
Jesus fucking christ.
Okay fair enough, the census is obviously not completely accurate. Just tell me where to find the "true figures". I'd believe you if you actually posted them.
My point was that you sounded like someone repeating the bullshit in the Daily Mail. I don't read the Daily Mail.
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Okay fair enough, the census is obviously not completely accurate. Just tell me where to find the "true figures". I'd believe you if you actually posted them.
My point was that you sounded like someone repeating the bullshit in the Daily Mail. I don't read the Daily Mail.
If i find some figures, i WILL post them, dont worry. I am just talking from personal experience and every day life of what it is really like to live in the uk. It was only in the last couple of years that the bbc started publishing the "true" figures that we were seeing on the tv on a daily basis.
I would like to say though, the only country in Europe right now that is growing its economy is, have a guess????????
Poland.