Silk Road forums
Discussion => Security => Topic started by: fuckingACE on November 22, 2012, 11:47 pm
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Helllooo
Quick question.
Can LE dust for fingerprints on the inside of an envelope? i.e paper..
I guess its not the best medium to get a print off, but is it possible.. Say if LE caught 3 of your packages, dusted inside and out for prints and lo and behold there are one set of prints common to all 3 envelopes..
ACE
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Yes, so when people write bank robbery notes, they can see the oil stain right on the paper,
i believe it can be easily done at home. In a science lab, Serous shit, they pour in a bottle cap full of....super glue.... on to a dish, in to a small oven looking box, and place.... super glue.... dish with the paper you are testing. The super glue evaporates and the fumes attach themselves on to the oil, which is on the paper..... showing you.......... a perfect thumbprint.
Always wear gloves for things like packing envelopes, with addresses of costumers.
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Of course they can
They can get fingerprints from alsmost anything these days
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Yes, so when people write bank robbery notes, they can see the oil stain right on the paper,
i believe it can be easily done at home. In a science lab, Serous shit, they pour in a bottle cap full of....super glue.... on to a dish, in to a small oven looking box, and place.... super glue.... dish with the paper you are testing. The super glue evaporates and the fumes attach themselves on to the oil, which is on the paper..... showing you.......... a perfect thumbprint.
Always wear gloves for things like packing envelopes, with addresses of costumers.
Correct. Grabbing prints from a piece of paper would be commonplace at this point in time.
Furthering what ecstacydude said, wear multiple layers of gloves, ideally a pair of Rubber gloves worn over a pair of fuzzy gloves (gardening gloves maybe). Those rubber gloves can be so thin that while it wont allow for the oil on your finger to leave a print, if you had some residue on your gloves, its possible that fingerprints can be transfered via that medium. Wearing the fuzzy gloves under the rubber gloves helps to eliminate this issue.
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Yes, so when people write bank robbery notes, they can see the oil stain right on the paper,
i believe it can be easily done at home. In a science lab, Serous shit, they pour in a bottle cap full of....super glue.... on to a dish, in to a small oven looking box, and place.... super glue.... dish with the paper you are testing. The super glue evaporates and the fumes attach themselves on to the oil, which is on the paper..... showing you.......... a perfect thumbprint.
Always wear gloves for things like packing envelopes, with addresses of costumers.
Correct. Grabbing prints from a piece of paper would be commonplace at this point in time.
Furthering what ecstacydude said, wear multiple layers of gloves, ideally a pair of Rubber gloves worn over a pair of fuzzy gloves (gardening gloves maybe). Those rubber gloves can be so thin that while it wont allow for the oil on your finger to leave a print, if you had some residue on your gloves, its possible that fingerprints can be transfered via that medium. Wearing the fuzzy gloves under the rubber gloves helps to eliminate this issue.
This, or double wrap the gloves.
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Also there is another advantage of wearing fuzzy gloves + rubber gloves. You can give yourself a handjob and it would not feel like your own hand....sitting on the hand for 5 minutes before this would enhance the performance even more :)
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Also there is another advantage of wearing fuzzy gloves + rubber gloves. You can give yourself a handjob and it would not feel like your own hand....sitting on the hand for 5 minutes before this would enhance the performance even more :)
And remind/nudge the customer to mention the freebies in their feedback for that order
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A few things:
Fingerprinting is not exactly standard procedure. While it's not a specialized thing either, I guarantee you that swabbing for fingerprints is the last thing LE is going to attempt after seizing an envelope full of drugs. For a few reasons:
A) Multiple people have likely handled that envelope. While most if not all systems used to organize letters in the United States are completely automated nowadays, it's not too far-fetched for a worker here and there to pick it up and throw it into a basket or something.
B) Besides what CSI has taught you, there is no such thing as a global database containing every single persons full set of fingerprints in the world. The only reason your government would have a full set is if you were a convicted felon. Also I believe certain government jobs require you to sign up with your fingerprints. Don't hold me to that though.
C) Unless it's a huge shipment of Pseudoephedrine, ergotamine or crystal LSD, most of the time it's simply not worth the effort, time and money to MAYBE pull a partial fingerprint that will probably not even produce a match, which they will forever have in a huge database with other unrelated crimes and fingerprints, waiting for that lucky host to get arrested one day.
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Helllooo
Quick question.
Can LE dust for fingerprints on the inside of an envelope? i.e paper..
I guess its not the best medium to get a print off, but is it possible.. Say if LE caught 3 of your packages, dusted inside and out for prints and lo and behold there are one set of prints common to all 3 envelopes..
ACE
YES, absolutely! Fingerprints are very easy to lift, dust, from paper, always use rubber gloves, pin up your hair under a hair net, wear a cheap face mask to avoid any accidental saliva drops, lay down a surface of foil to work on so that any local fibers to not attach themselves to your package or fillers, any writing you must do on the inside do in pencil. Pencil carbon is untraceable, but pen ink can be traced to the pen, to the manufacturer of the ink, to the geographical distribution areas, to the stores that stocked it, etc. Block print, do not write cursively, block printing in pencil is untraceable, pen cursive is eminently traceable, right to you. And, of course, never, never, never lick the sealing strip on envelopes, stamps, etc. as this leaves a 100% DNA trail right to you every time.
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Any serious vendor has their fingerprints permanently removed by burning the first layer of skin with a strong corrosive chemical. Everybody knows this..
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Any serious vendor has their fingerprints permanently removed by burning the first layer of skin with a strong corrosive chemical. Everybody knows this..
This!
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A few things:
Fingerprinting is not exactly standard procedure. While it's not a specialized thing either, I guarantee you that swabbing for fingerprints is the last thing LE is going to attempt after seizing an envelope full of drugs. For a few reasons:
A) Multiple people have likely handled that envelope. While most if not all systems used to organize letters in the United States are completely automated nowadays, it's not too far-fetched for a worker here and there to pick it up and throw it into a basket or something.
B) Besides what CSI has taught you, there is no such thing as a global database containing every single persons full set of fingerprints in the world. The only reason your government would have a full set is if you were a convicted felon. Also I believe certain government jobs require you to sign up with your fingerprints. Don't hold me to that though.
C) Unless it's a huge shipment of Pseudoephedrine, ergotamine or crystal LSD, most of the time it's simply not worth the effort, time and money to MAYBE pull a partial fingerprint that will probably not even produce a match, which they will forever have in a huge database with other unrelated crimes and fingerprints, waiting for that lucky host to get arrested one day.
I agree with this, although I do wear gloves whenever handling packages and what not - even ones that are sent to me (So if I am caught, I can be like "Duh..I've never seen that before..")
But you really think that LE are going to do this for maybe a few envelopes containing a couple of g's of coke or MDMA? Think of all the drugs seized at one point in a day.
Think of all the huge amounts, like kilos and kilos of every substance are seized every single day - the chances of the police going to all that hassle to try and bust you for small time dealing when there are probably kilos of the same substance coming in to your area everyday are pretty slim.
But, that doesn't mean you get sloppy - wear gloves just in case.
There is no such thing as being to careful, in my eyes.
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This, or double wrap the gloves.
I've found this to be the most practical solution.
1 pair is not safe at all and leather gloves might work for like weed but good luck grabbing a tab of acid with winter gloves on.
2 pairs of gloves is flexible enough for small work and blocks all oils and impressions left by fingers traditionally.
No better way to fly!
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A few things:
Fingerprinting is not exactly standard procedure. While it's not a specialized thing either, I guarantee you that swabbing for fingerprints is the last thing LE is going to attempt after seizing an envelope full of drugs. For a few reasons:
A) Multiple people have likely handled that envelope. While most if not all systems used to organize letters in the United States are completely automated nowadays, it's not too far-fetched for a worker here and there to pick it up and throw it into a basket or something.
B) Besides what CSI has taught you, there is no such thing as a global database containing every single persons full set of fingerprints in the world. The only reason your government would have a full set is if you were a convicted felon. Also I believe certain government jobs require you to sign up with your fingerprints. Don't hold me to that though.
C) Unless it's a huge shipment of Pseudoephedrine, ergotamine or crystal LSD, most of the time it's simply not worth the effort, time and money to MAYBE pull a partial fingerprint that will probably not even produce a match, which they will forever have in a huge database with other unrelated crimes and fingerprints, waiting for that lucky host to get arrested one day.
I agree with this, although I do wear gloves whenever handling packages and what not - even ones that are sent to me (So if I am caught, I can be like "Duh..I've never seen that before..")
But you really think that LE are going to do this for maybe a few envelopes containing a couple of g's of coke or MDMA? Think of all the drugs seized at one point in a day.
Think of all the huge amounts, like kilos and kilos of every substance are seized every single day - the chances of the police going to all that hassle to try and bust you for small time dealing when there are probably kilos of the same substance coming in to your area everyday are pretty slim.
But, that doesn't mean you get sloppy - wear gloves just in case.
There is no such thing as being to careful, in my eyes.
I both agree and disagree. Yes, 1g of crank or MDMA is like chasing the guy pirating CD's, small fish in a big pond. If a package is randomly intercepted, I dont think you would need to worry about print dusting.
BUT, in a direct SR sting, i could very easily imagine LEO ordering from several vendors then sending those off to the lab to be dusted. That would be my worry.as a vendor.
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Some people saying they won't bother with fingerprints on small packages. Maybe not if you live in a 3rd world country (they'll just steal the package), but SR has been in the news and LE is seriously into finding vendors. At least in the US. Apparently even moreso in Australia. They want to catch people marketing through the mail. They WILL check fingerprints on captured packages. It takes them very little effort, as packages are small. They may not have all fingerprints in the world, but US at least DOES HAVE a national database which contains prints from anyone ever ARRESTED FOR ANYTHING in the US unless they were not convicted AND went through a process to have their info removed. Anyone who has been fingerprinted for anything is in their too. Many jobs require fingerprinting. Your parents may have had you fingerprinted in case you ever got lost as a kid. They try to get as many people as possible in there. Fingerprinting has been a thing since the 1800s which is why even the DUMBEST criminals know to wear gloves.
WEAR YOUR FUCKING GLOVES. FFS people!
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What you said was mostly on point, besides the Job thing.
Most jobs DO require fingerprinting -- however, in the vast majority of these cases they are simply checking to see if your fingerprints are in any databases, to check if you're a felon, pedofile, have a warrant out for your arrest, whatever. It simply scans and throws away the scans after they don't find anything. I talked rather in depth to the man who was fingerprinting me for a job a year or so ago and he assured me that my fingerprints were NOT going to some database; government or otherwise, the system would simply check for positives in the system.
I'm sure there are exceptions to this, but I thought I would clear this up.
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I had to get fingerprinted for a job and they DO keep the fingerprints on file. If mine weren't already on file it would have been a deal-breaker.
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"But you really think that LE are going to do this for maybe a few envelopes containing a couple of g's of coke or MDMA? Think of all the drugs seized at one point in a day."
its not really about the AMOUNT u have its all about how much they can get u to pay into the system to keep it all running smoothly....
U can be a rich mother fucker and have a g of coke. WELL there there is 10 grand in fees fines lawyer fees, and keeping u outta the KLINK
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Multiple people have likely handled that envelope.
But the OP was asking about the inside of the envelope, which is a smart question. I would absolutely use gloves on product and packing materials, too, from the moment they were taken from their own wrapping from the store or wherever else you got them.
Since I last visited the thread, I'm glad to see other people making the comments I wanted to about what LE would or would not do (at best, it's difficult to predict). It just gets worse as the profile of SR rises. And there's nothing the public has a fear/hate on more than something like a MoM enterprise where access isn't just in "those neighbourhoods".
If you're going to take it seriously, though, how is DNA not as big a problem? Anything sitting out exposed for some length of time is going to have your skin cells on it, maybe hair. I would absolutely make myself a small clean room with personal grooming/dressing regimen to do it right. I'm not kidding.
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Multiple people have likely handled that envelope.
But the OP was asking about the inside of the envelope, which is a smart question. I would absolutely use gloves on product and packing materials, too, from the moment they were taken from their own wrapping from the store or wherever else you got them.
Since I last visited the thread, I'm glad to see other people making the comments I wanted to about what LE would or would not do (at best, it's difficult to predict). It just gets worse as the profile of SR rises. And there's nothing the public has a fear/hate on more than something like a MoM enterprise where access isn't just in "those neighbourhoods".
If you're going to take it seriously, though, how is DNA not as big a problem? Anything sitting out exposed for some length of time is going to have your skin cells on it, maybe hair. I would absolutely make myself a small clean room with personal grooming/dressing regimen to do it right. I'm not kidding.
I'm on board with you, I'd be worried about DNA as well. If I were a vendor, I'd be wearing those Tyvek disposable coveralls when working.
Someone with a little better knowledge of the topic might have some input but, I have no idea about what they can keep on file and for how long regarding DNA.
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Multiple people have likely handled that envelope.
But the OP was asking about the inside of the envelope, which is a smart question. I would absolutely use gloves on product and packing materials, too, from the moment they were taken from their own wrapping from the store or wherever else you got them.
Since I last visited the thread, I'm glad to see other people making the comments I wanted to about what LE would or would not do (at best, it's difficult to predict). It just gets worse as the profile of SR rises. And there's nothing the public has a fear/hate on more than something like a MoM enterprise where access isn't just in "those neighbourhoods".
If you're going to take it seriously, though, how is DNA not as big a problem? Anything sitting out exposed for some length of time is going to have your skin cells on it, maybe hair. I would absolutely make myself a small clean room with personal grooming/dressing regimen to do it right. I'm not kidding.
I'm on board with you, I'd be worried about DNA as well. If I were a vendor, I'd be wearing those Tyvek disposable coveralls when working.
Someone with a little better knowledge of the topic might have some input but, I have no idea about what they can keep on file and for how long regarding DNA.
They can do what they want. Seriously.
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Multiple people have likely handled that envelope.
But the OP was asking about the inside of the envelope, which is a smart question. I would absolutely use gloves on product and packing materials, too, from the moment they were taken from their own wrapping from the store or wherever else you got them.
Since I last visited the thread, I'm glad to see other people making the comments I wanted to about what LE would or would not do (at best, it's difficult to predict). It just gets worse as the profile of SR rises. And there's nothing the public has a fear/hate on more than something like a MoM enterprise where access isn't just in "those neighbourhoods".
If you're going to take it seriously, though, how is DNA not as big a problem? Anything sitting out exposed for some length of time is going to have your skin cells on it, maybe hair. I would absolutely make myself a small clean room with personal grooming/dressing regimen to do it right. I'm not kidding.
I'm on board with you, I'd be worried about DNA as well. If I were a vendor, I'd be wearing those Tyvek disposable coveralls when working.
Someone with a little better knowledge of the topic might have some input but, I have no idea about what they can keep on file and for how long regarding DNA.
Anyone who pleads guilty or no contest to a felony has to submit their DNA to the court, and I think it goes in a federal database from there. My ex-boyfriend pled no contest to a felony charge and wasn't convicted but still had to do probation and pay fines and all that crap. He still had to submit his DNA in.
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I wear double glove whenever working or when handling any packaging material. I also periodically wipe everything down with alcohol to destroy any DNA evidence while packing .
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If you are arrested for anything, they take your fingerprints. Even if your case is dropped later, your fingerprints are in a database somewhere. So far, they've mostly been taking DNA samples from convicted felons, as noted earlier, but I believe that is going to change. In ten years, they will probably be taking DNA samples from everyone who gets arrested.
DNA is much more accurate than fingerprints. With fingerprints, it's not like CSI where you see a million images flash across the screen and then they get 100% match. They find a collection of similar fingerprints and a human decides whether they have a match. With DNA, they use a collection of 13 short tandem repeats. Every person has a unique combination of those STRs, except identical twins. Identifying a unique individual is more straight forward. For now, fingerprinting is cheaper, but the cost of genotyping is falling fast and will eventually replace fingerprinting.
The other advantage of DNA is that you shed it from every surface of your body, so it doesn't rely on just the tips of your fingers coming into contact with a crime scene.
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This is really common sense, If you are vending wear gloves or you won't last long. The very least LE would do is fingerprint the contents of the letter and match it against their database. They would do this for orders as small as a gram to think otherwise is really putting your security at risk...
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If you are arrested for anything, they take your fingerprints. Even if your case is dropped later, your fingerprints are in a database somewhere. So far, they've mostly been taking DNA samples from convicted felons, as noted earlier, but I believe that is going to change. In ten years, they will probably be taking DNA samples from everyone who gets arrested.
DNA is much more accurate than fingerprints. With fingerprints, it's not like CSI where you see a million images flash across the screen and then they get 100% match. They find a collection of similar fingerprints and a human decides whether they have a match. With DNA, they use a collection of 13 short tandem repeats. Every person has a unique combination of those STRs, except identical twins. Identifying a unique individual is more straight forward. For now, fingerprinting is cheaper, but the cost of genotyping is falling fast and will eventually replace fingerprinting.
The other advantage of DNA is that you shed it from every surface of your body, so it doesn't rely on just the tips of your fingers coming into contact with a crime scene.
What astor said, in a number of years when they can get DNA from capturing your exhaled breath for cheap, fingerprints will be a thing of the past.
Related to your post, I just learned yesterday that, as astor mentioned, when arrested, unless you explicitly expunge your record, even if you never get convicted, your prints stay on file. I probably already knew that but, was re-affirmed yesterday and again with astors post.