Silk Road forums
Discussion => Philosophy, Economics and Justice => Topic started by: parabol on September 21, 2013, 01:51 am
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I've been thinking about it for a while now and have not been able to reach a conclusion. That's why I need someone to ping pong the concept in a very serious tone, I think this is the perfect place.
What is Freedom Really?
Very used and common word, is in constitutions and laws of lots of countries all over the world. But the precise definition lacks in all of them? They often just say something like: People have the right to be Free. But what does that means really? they don't define "right" and they don't define "Free".
What is freedom then? everyone can do all they want?
No, that's not it, according to the laws there are things you "could" do but doing them will put you in jail or will socially cast you.
So, how about: Everyone can do all they want as long as they don't bother anyone else?
Many people see it this way, I find it very selfish and arrogant, completely ignoring the world that surrounds us, also this will socially isolate you, hence not being free.
So, what is it then, how can we define "Freedom" in paper in a precise way for it to be understood by everyone and no to be so wide of a content.
Well, I have a proposition. Freedom: "Capacity to opt for the maximum need valid for all".
When you have the capacity to opt if you want to fulfill the need valid for all or not, then that's the moment you are free. Choosing between selfishness and self pleasure or the good to all that surround us, by fulfilling the needs that are valid for all, no one can accuse you, no one can complain, you are liberated by doing the good.
But hold it right there, what is "capacity" and what is "need".
Capacity: Quality in the subject that makes possible appreciation, recognition, reception and retribution of sensations, knowledge and spiritual properties that are a product of the concordance, recognition and similarity with the appreciated object.
Need: Lack, deprivation of something necessary.
This is what I got so far, I think I'm reaching somewhere but is incomplete. I'm kinda stuck, I need a little help. Anyone serious that want discuss the matter is very welcome.
Thanks
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I like this one.
http://www.iuscomp.org/gla/statutes/GG.htm#1
For some people the right to carry weapons is a big part of freedom. But you see what happens in those country's all the time oppose to the "more sane" country's.
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Freedom is being able to say what people dont want to hear, i mean look at my bad karma hahahahaa
People here actually love me but they just dont know how to say it so they give negative karmavotes because I help them with important info. Hehehee
If people did not have freedom of speech then i would never have had the chance to learn from other peoples and listen to what they have found out and what proves it and stuff..
I say you only own yourself and every ownership of other humans is slavery, kids are owned by parents and parents are owned by the state who dictates the rules for the peoples lives..
Governments are a monopoly on usnig force and voilence and that is the opposite of freedom and they are only needed to keep the slaves quiet about injustices to unemployed people.
I would say freedom is being free from the obligations and rules of others exept nature, and every animal and humans should have a natural right to be living a natural life inside nature with free growing fruits and veggies all around the planet.. We shoudl not be forced to live in unnatural ways or eat unnatural foods and animas should never be taken from the wild and into cages and slaughterhouses because of humans sick "needs". =(
Its all about karma i guess, i dontknow how humans can strive for freedom while letting animals sit in a cage or believing you own your kids or partner as property, you can only own yourself and when thats a rule everyone follows then we have freedom, until then I guess we can throw some ideas back and forth.
Its interesting to read what peoples defenition of freedom is, I mean look at all my negative karmavotes.
In the voters minds maybe real freedom is being free from the chance of hearing "negative" truths about reality and society.. In other words maybe they think real freedom is if people like me just shutted the fuk up and let them be blind by never ever sharing some truths if i find them.
Im happy tho that internet gave everyone a voice, Im not so happy about the media saying that you cant trust people on the internet and idiotic shit like that since they are just protecting their sheeple by makin them afraid of going online and listening to real people instead of the clones people on the Tv-screen.
Take care man, much love, great thread.
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Freedom is the following things:
A. The ability to not be forced by others to do things that you do not want to do, and to not be forced by others to not do things that you do want to do
B. The ability to exercise total control over that which is yours, to the exclusion of all others
Your freedom ends where anothers begins. So it is not immoral for people to stop you from raping somebody, because someone else who is free has the ability to not be forced to do things they do not want to do, and if you try to violate their freedom then it is okay for people to violate yours, in that it is okay for people to force you to not do things that you do want to do if you doing those things would prevent another person from not being forced to do things they don't want to do.
The ability to have guns clearly falls under freedom, because having a gun may be something you want to have the ability to do, and it doesn't violate the freedom of anybody else , provided you do not bring a gun on the property of somebody who does not want you to (doing this would violate their ability to exercise total control over that which is theirs).
Freedom is not hard to define.
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Also I would like to point out that none of us live in a free society, although some are more free than others in various regards.
The fact that drugs need to be approved by the FDA means that we are not free. If somebody wants to release a drug that has not been approved, it is in their right to do so, because they should be free, and being free means that they have the ability to not be forced to not do things that they want to do. They want to release a drug that has not been approved by the FDA, being prevented from doing this is a violation of their freedom. They are not violating the freedom of anybody by releasing such a drug, because they do not make anybody take the drug.
The fact that we are not free to use drugs means that our freedom has been violated. If somebody wants to use a drug, it is their right to do so, because they should be free, and being free means that they have the ability to not be forced to not do things that they want to do. They want to use a drug, being prevented from using the drug is a violation of their freedom. They are not violating the freedom of anybody by using a drug.
The fact that we are taxed means we are not free, for the same reasons as above. The fact that certain information is forbidden means that we are not free, for the same reasons as above. The fact that different countries have variance in their age of consent laws is a clear indication that not all countries are free, because either some countries have legalized child abuse (meaning the children are not free in those countries), or some countries have decided to enslave people who do not abuse children (meaning the people they enslave are not free).
In fact, we are very far from free. We are so far from free that we cannot be considered as anything other than slaves. And it is about time that we have a slave revolt, and kill those who have enslaved us, and take control of the world ourselves, and make sure that we globally protect the freedom of all people. This is why I highly suggest totalibertarianism, because under totalibertarianism freedom is totally protected with an iron fist, and anybody who goes against freedom is considered a dissident and crushed like a bug. If you support freedom, please feel free to call yourself a totalibertarian and to help overthrow the slave masters of the world.
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is just another way of saying nothing left to.....
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Yeah hahahaa having something that enables you to kill someone else at the press of a button, that freedom.. lets stay inside our homes so we dont get shot tho since we are free..
The rights to own guns can only be usefull if you are planning on letting dictators run you over with armies of robotlike human soldiers..
Its ridiculus when no americans promote world peace and that the governments should put their guns down and stop the wars instantly, there should not even be troops willing to go to war since they are mental cases if they educate themselves in killing others because the psycopaths in the governments drawed lines between landmasses and called them countries, and tricked people into believing the enemies are on the other side of the lines surrounding the country.
Instead they wanna arm themselves and try to fight and thats exactly what the governments want since then they can create order out of chaos..
I would not be suprised if there was the militaryindustry writing that shit about guns are freedom, I say no, when soldiers dont wanna go to war anymore or own guns, thats when we have freedom and world peace.
I live in a country where the shootings are rare, they happen but they are rare, and thats because guns are not sold like they are in the U.S.
If guns was sold everywhere in the slavearea/country I live in then ofcourse people would have grabbed a gun alot of times when it was not even needed but if its there and people are in love fo example , if something happens to the love then the gun should not be there.. Fists and words could be used and everyone would walk away from it..
Its a weird freedom to have something to end someone life by the press of a button and its probably the opposite of freedom since if there was freedom then none would need a gun.
Now you wanna let the governments have soldiers then I can overstand that you want guns but you aint protecting yourself by makin yourself a threat to the beast with his armies of robotlike human soldiers/soul-die-R.
when you think weapons are freedom when weapons hae been used against freedom for so long, then you know youre in a very sick world and that you should avoid sick things like believing you protect yourself from arming yourself because everyone else did, thats crazyness in a crazy country.. =(
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I think the best way to understand what freedom really is, is to have experienced what it is like not to be free. Anyone who has ever been incarcerated understands exactly what freedom is. Freedom is being able to make your own desicions, come and go as you please, eat and sleep whenever the fuck you want. Freedom is doing what you want, when you want to do it.
But as they say, with freedom comes great responsibility.
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All I know is that freedom isnt free. It cost a buck O five...
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Hello, thanks for the interaction...
Freedom is the following things:
A. The ability to not be forced by others to do things that you do not want to do, and to not be forced by others to not do things that you do want to do
B. The ability to exercise total control over that which is yours, to the exclusion of all others
Your freedom ends where anothers begins.
I was in this spot at start, but the definition I got later I believe is a step further. The one you stated is already inside the one I gave: "Capacity to opt for the maximum need valid for all", when you have the capacity to opt, you are not being forced by anyone or anything, you choose it by you own self will, and you are choosing to aid the maximum need valid for all, meaning that you are affecting no one in a negative way, and not only that, but you are helping and doing good for all. On the other hand you could choose and opt for something that's only beneficial for you and no one else, harming everyone and everything, its your choice.
That definition you stated I see it as very passive, selfish and and self centered, is not focused in all but in the individual, for me that is a mistake. The one I'm behind is focused in all and in the individual.
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all are individuals
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Freedom is to be free until the point where someone else's freedom starts.
Now we need to figure out if 'someone else' includes only humans or also other species? Or maybe even plants and inanimate objects?
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Freedom is to be free until the point where someone else's freedom starts.
That is exactly article 2 of the German constitution.
Article 2 [Personal freedoms]
(1) Every person shall have the right to free development of his personality insofar as he does not violate the rights of others or offend against the constitutional order or the moral law.
(2) Every person shall have the right to life and physical integrity. Freedom of the person shall be inviolable. These rights may be interfered with only pursuant to a law.
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Freedom is to be free until the point where someone else's freedom starts.
Now we need to figure out if 'someone else' includes only humans or also other species? Or maybe even plants and inanimate objects?
Definitions of words shouldn't include the word being defined in them.
Freedom is to have Freedom until the point where someone else's Freedom starts.
Infinite recursion, conveys no information what-so-ever.
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all are individuals
Yes, individuals that live together in a society. Imagine all giving and fulfilling the maximum need valid at all time, wouldn't that be wonderful world. If we just focus on individuals, we limit our human potential.
Freedom is to be free until the point where someone else's freedom starts.
Now we need to figure out if 'someone else' includes only humans or also other species? Or maybe even plants and inanimate objects?
Definitions of words shouldn't include the word being defined in them.
Freedom is to have Freedom until the point where someone else's Freedom starts.
Infinite recursion, conveys no information what-so-ever.
Exactly my point, Freedom is not really defined in this manifestos, and if does is like you point it out, useless and going nowhere.
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Freedom is not being attached to material things and this dense reality ..
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giving and fulfilling the maximum need valid at all time
No idea what this means honestly.
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All I know is that freedom isnt free. It cost a buck O five...
Dawg, How bout tree fifty? You tink you can get me some at freedom for three fifty?
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Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose!
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Traditionally freedom has been the right to purchase land and live where one wants.
Good point about the infinite recursion, that's pretty much law, government and society in a nutshell.