Silk Road forums
Market => Rumor mill => Topic started by: Japan1980 on June 24, 2013, 09:27 pm
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Hi All.
Firstly before doing a very small transaction of 30 diazepam with 'gotmilk' my stats were 130+ transactions, 0% refund and 0% auto finalization - so perfect on all accounts.
My order did not arrive and I was in resolution for nearly a month before we finally agreed on a 65% refund. I didn't want a reship as I didn't want the hassle of waiting again as 'gotmilk' seem to think it can take upto a month for a package to arrive to the UK.
I gave the vendor a rating of 2/5 and basically said I found it hard work trying to resolve the issue with the vendor, on my feedback - I see that as being a fair reflection of the situation.
I suddenly receive a message saying this (I will post all PM correspondence, so start from the bottom then read up) - I would be interested in peoples thoughts on this as to me this is blatantly using their vendor status to blackmail buyers to give fake reviews/feedback -
gotmilk(95) I put you on the vendor blacklist for being a cunt
you will now be forced to FE with all the smart vendors.
5/5 within say next 24 hours wont post your name on the blacklist in vendors forum.
I also think you ripped me off after that review. 42 minutes read delete
Japan1980 I'll take the 65% refund - thanks. 1 day read delete
gotmilk(95) resend me address will mail in AM.
refund is stupid over $15 usd? 1 day read delete
Japan1980 Check the latest resolution offer and see what you think.
This is going on far too long, I would rather just draw a line over it and move on.
Kind Regards,
J 1 day read delete
I like to think I have a good reputation on SR and in the forums, so for a vendor to be able to try and flex their muscles to put off any future vendors I may deal with is truly out of order.
THOUGHTS?
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Personally, i would report them to Support with all of the documentation of the msg's that you have..this is Blackmail, what they are saying to you....you were honest and took it to resolution and even waited for that long.....
Just msg the other vendors you use with this info as well and i think they will all see this attempt at Blackmail..
shit go back and give them 1/5
Peace & Hugs to ya my Brother :)
ChemCat O0
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towards any vender who would attempt to black list for any reason other then the customer having oustanding debt or LE involvement , "your a douche" just dont buy from em. place is so diverse you don't have to. no monopolies here.
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Japan1980,
Thank you for bringing this to everyone's attention. Vendors like this are not needed on SR as they will blackmail others.
I hope that the mods can do something to help you.
Good luck.
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I've reported the vendor and put a link to this thread in the feedback of his for all to see.
He's clearly a vendor I suggest people avoid.
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Fuck that :o I think your quite right. You have 100% of your orders i don,t think anyone would fuck their stats for 65% of $15, it sounds like the vendors a bit desperate for 5/5 feedback. I think the vendor should have cancelled the order with full refund if they were offering to re-ship anyway and there words "refund is stupid over $15 USD". I think the cancel option should have been used or a full refund given to someone with that many successful transactions ;) Clearly the blackmail option should never be used by vendor or buyer, i certainly won,t be going near this vendor, i hope you,ve reported this ;) thanks Japan +1
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Can anyone confirm that there is a 'vendor forum'?
I ask this as 2 vendors have already commented on this - If so I would quite like a link of this thread put in that forum for other vendors to see. Many of which I would have dealt with in the past anyway!
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http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/wiki/index.php?title=Vendor_roundtable
Vendor roundtable
The Vendor roundtable is a private message board on the Silk Road forum for vendors to discuss issues in private. To qualify for access to the board, you must meet the following requirements:
You must have received a bond refund.
Your forum username must be identical to your vendor username
You must keep a link to your vendor page in your forum signature
When you've met these criteria, message Vendor Support and they will give you access.
(i've seen new vendors msg mods and get access after all of the above has been met.)
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First off, anyone that has had the opportunity to get to know japan a little, like I have, would know that he would never screw someone over. This order was $15? All those transactions and you are trying to con your way out of this one? Hmmm kay...
Also, IMO, I wouldn't put much weight in the vendor's blacklist. I've read a from a few vendors they don't pay attention to it, because retarded vendors put good people on the list all the time.....just like this instance. Would be good to get a vendor's word on this tho.
I'd totally call his bluff. If vendor's ask about it, I'm more than positive you could show em what happened, and things would be fine.
Edit: and yes there is a hidden vendor forum. You have to be approved as a vendor on the forums to see it. Again, I don't know, but I don't think vendor's pay attention to it.
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There is a vendor forum, yes.. the 'roundtable'!!
yea homie.. fuck him!!
Calling you the cunt?!?
Who the fuck does he think he is?!?
WE ARE SR!! not his sorry ass!!
you did the right thing.. you brought it to the community's attention!!
Thank you, and good luck!!
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Cheers guys - If a vendor does happen to have access to the 'roundtable' please link this thread for the goodness of the SR COMMUNITY
thanks for the comments everyone - now who looks like the daft one?
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japan~da~man, is a great dude. :)
(hugs)
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Bump :)
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HELL NO. ITS THAT SIMPLE.
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Gotmilk - I see vendors are even bumping the thread, not going to plan is it??
BLATANT BLACKMAIL - YOU SHOULD HAVE YOUR VENDOR PRIVILEGES TAKEN FROM YOU.
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Open a support ticket, title it "URGENT-threat from vendor". They can see your pm's and what you put in the resolution center. I got a long time vendor with over 1000 sales kicked off for saying he saves addresses and telling me he was going to send a large amount of coke and give all the authorities the tracking number and address. They took a few days and he was gone. They let him come back. I don't know why, but I guess he had to pay again. He now is admittedly the same vendor that was banned. Has the same info on his main page and uses the same email address. I just let it go. If the people that run SR want someone like that, then they can have him.
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For a start I would never accept a reship. Maybe I'm just paranoid but one no-show means
an address is burned. Vendors I've explained this to (as I haven't had a viable back up) have been fine.
As for feedback, I don't think It should be reduced just because the item didn't show. That leaves timing and
communication, I would have maybe knocked one off for each as he was rude and slow. However I don't think your
feedback was overly harsh.
AS FOR
aggressive behaviour, threats and blackmail this peanut must think he's still a streat dealer and it's probably were he needs to return.
This Jewel we call Silk Road provides for a trading platform where posturing, intimidation and threats serve no purpose
and hence should be obsolete. While I have read many reviews from stupidly naive, arrogant, greedy buyers which have made me
feel ashamed to be associated with them, the majority of buyers seem to be descent experienced drug hands.
Some buyer seems to forget that while they are providing us a service, SR is providing them a massive service by separating them from
the toe-cutters of the world. He might be all tough threatening to blacklist you but being rude to the wrong person in his line of work
would normally result in his doors being kicked and a shotgun shoved in his face.
Just so this doesn't appear to be a complete rant against vendors I thought I'd include a bit of feedback of the nature I mentioned earlier.
3 of 5 Worst stealth I have seen yet. No large shards as described. I honestly can't believe it got through OZ customs. Haven't tried yet but I am not feeling confident. 19 days item
This is from a vendor I use quite a lot. Admittedly his stealth is minimal but every package I've ordered has made it through the toughest customs in the world.
Considering the price difference is 10 to 1 I had factored in losing every third but so far lost none. Also I am less impressed with the size of the shards I get
and actually sample the product. Every batch has well exceeded anything available locally. I believe if a package makes it through with no LE following then
a mention in the feedback could be warranted but I'm not sure about a mark down. If your all freaked out because you sent it to your own house with your name
on it maybe you should be working on securing your end before you start hassling vendors.
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Open a support ticket, title it "URGENT-threat from vendor". They can see your pm's and what you put in the resolution center. I got a long time vendor with over 1000 sales kicked off for saying he saves addresses and telling me he was going to send a large amount of coke and give all the authorities the tracking number and address. They took a few days and he was gone. They let him come back. I don't know why, but I guess he had to pay again. He now is admittedly the same vendor that was banned. Has the same info on his main page and uses the same email address. I just let it go. If the people that run SR want someone like that, then they can have him.
I've reported him, so I guess that means opening a ticket, I titled it blackmail and said to look through the PM's and resolution center.
In my opinion this vendor has been caught bang to rights blackmailing a customer - with outstanding statistics. So it's out of my hands - all I want is for people to see how this guy operates, you can bet your bottom dollar I'm not the first person he's done this too and I won't be the last. Vendors like this really bring down the spirit of SR and should not be able to continue vending.
The more people that see this thread and can learn from it the better - Blackmailing by vendors will not be tolerated. I'm not sure what's in a vendors contract but surely this must be covered in one form or another.
My rating of 2/5 is what I thought to be a fair rating of the situation. I made the order on 17th May and it wasn't sorted out until 23rd June - and I went from 100% refund to 75% - he said 50% then I said 65% and it's a deal. It wasn't the money - it was the principle of the whole thing.
Then this happens....I was tempted to change it to 1/5 but I won't because I'm not like that, I'll stick to my 2/5 which I believe was a fair rating of what happened.
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Should vendors be cheated by clients using rating system as a way to extort reships and or refunds.
real easy to sit in front of a computer and say GOTMILK is a prick, you know how many scammers we deal with weekly.
as for my threat I did put Japan1980 name in the vendors forum under blacklist and like other vendors we do it often. we area llowed I didnt post his address or anything sensative liek real name, so you can put down the pitchforks.
You want to spit in our face you get something back.
Japan1980 is using his small clout as a SR board whore to start a fight after he didnt show us a seizure letter, demanded a 100% refund because he claims it never arrived and then after all that leaves us a nasty review and starts a fight on the boards.
You ask 99.9% of our clients they are happy with our services. This jerk has wasted to much of my time. Good luck FE and wait until you see my posts on the vendors boards about you.
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its hard to imagine a person as generous as japan trying to cheat anybody.
if you don't deliver in a timely manner an you aren't gonna offer risible refund, to a buyer whom is clearly honest with may I remind you 0% refund until you?.. what did you expect 5/5 :P?
this is a free market. part of your job is keeping the customer completely happy. not japans fault.
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also the rating system is there for this exact purpose may I remind you ::)
if a customer is satisfied they leave good feedback.. if not you know something needs to be improved ;)
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its hard to imagine a person as generous as japan trying to cheat anybody.
if you don't deliver in a timely manner an you aren't gonna offer risible refund, to a buyer whom is clearly honest with may I remind you 0% refund until you?.. what did you expect 5/5 :P?
this is a free market. part of your job is keeping the customer completely happy. not japans fault.
Its not personal we were polite and respectful as we are with all clients. however, we reserve the right to refuse to do business with anyone we choose and if we feel as if we have been treated disrespectfully we have the right to act.
Second its not GOTMILK's fault if package doesnt show assuming it did not show, which frankly to uk we have almost 100%success rate. I mean we ship thousands of packs to UK from our warehouses in India and once in a freaking blue moon does a package under 300 tabs get nailed.
30 tabs just didnt show and now we have to get shit on after a refund and an apology, its like a chargeback a 1/5 2/5 if you charge back vendor wont work with you.
anyways I got the Xanax gg249 2mg bars we have in stock and also the hydrocodone 10/325 starting July. Lots of summer sales coming, we hope to have adderall within 30 days.
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its hard to imagine a person as generous as japan trying to cheat anybody.
if you don't deliver in a timely manner an you aren't gonna offer risible refund, to a buyer whom is clearly honest with may I remind you 0% refund until you?.. what did you expect 5/5 :P?
this is a free market. part of your job is keeping the customer completely happy. not japans fault.
Its not personal we were polite and respectful as we are with all clients. however, we reserve the right to refuse to do business with anyone we choose and if we feel as if we have been treated disrespectfully we have the right to act.
Second its not GOTMILK's fault if package doesnt show assuming it did not show, which frankly to uk we have almost 100%success rate. I mean we ship thousands of packs to UK from our warehouses in India and once in a freaking blue moon does a package under 300 tabs get nailed.
30 tabs just didnt show and now we have to get shit on after a refund and an apology, its like a chargeback a 1/5 2/5 if you charge back vendor wont work with you.
anyways I got the Xanax gg249 2mg bars we have in stock and also the hydrocodone 10/325 starting July. Lots of summer sales coming, we hope to have adderall within 30 days.
if you do that much business, whats it to you to refund him :P?
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This is another reason the feedback system needs an overhaul. A low rating on such a small order should be inconsequential.
Buyer feedback from vendors would even things out a little.
@Gotmilk, you probably should have just given him the $15 back. Without tracking, you took a gamble (at least I didn't see any mention of tracking).
@ Japan - if you didn't have a customs letter, but settled on a 65% refund, the fairest feedback (before the blackmail) would have been 3/5. Docking a vendor because the "experience" was less than desirable is not what the feedback rating is for. That's what you use the comment section for.
But it's all moot now.
Vendors want 5/5 because the feedback algorithm is an unfair mess. Active, veteran buyers like myself... if I were to leave a 1/5 for just about any vendor, it would shave off at least 5% (for an order of $200+). If it's a relatively new vendor, I could easily shave off 10%+. What's up with that? Is that a fair reflection of the vendor? My one bad experience?
Let me give you a real example; a vendor who sells roxies got a 1/5 from a scam buyer saying he got fake roxies. It was total BS. I've bought from this vendor around the time the jerkoff hit him with a 1/5. He went from a 100% to 97% instantly because of this 1/5 feedback. Every other customer could vouch for his quality and service.
See what I mean?
So if you see that odd 1/5 amidst a bunch of 5/5s, don't think it's valid. It's probably some buyer blackmail attempt or maybe a competing vendor with a buyer account playing games.
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No matter how gotmilk tries to sugarcoat it it was an attempt at Blackmail - simple as that.
@ben I thought 2/5 considering the bollocks he was talking about items taking a month to get to the UK (nothing takes a month from anywhere to get the UK) while we were in resolution, when on his homepage he states 8-10 day MAX. AT first resolution gave a 14 day extension, and still no package. His customer service skills were so poor, I was trying to come to a resolution and he was simply answering in one or two words. I didn't receive the product so I don't see how that plus all the time wasted warrants more than a 2/5. In fact after this I have every right to give him a 1/5 - but I won't.
It was for 30 diazepam - why would I even think about scamming for that much, when my stats were absolutely perfect in over a year with 130+transaction? Plus scamming isn't in my nature.
The evidence is clear for all to see and been reported he tried using his vendor power to blackmail me.
By the way gotmilk - I have a list of vendors that I deal with, and have dealt with for over a year, so putting me on whatever list doesn't mean shit to me. You sir are on a list that can't be undone, and have been reported for such actions.
I've got all the evidence - CLEAR ATTEMPT AT BLACKMAIL.
Have a good day 8)
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I'm still after a vendor that has access to the 'roundtable' to post a link of this thread up - just out of curiosity it would be nice to see how other 'proper' vendors feel about this.
I know the few vendors that have commented so far on this thread think it's disgusting behaviour, and I'm sure 99% of other vendors would agree.
I might actually PM Lim as I'm sure he'll have access.
For the sake of 30 diazepam, your business could take a big hit from this. And I will be letting members of the forum know (you know the ones, the one's that make you money, yeah the customers) about this disgusting attempt of blackmail.
Finally, does anyone know once a report or a 'ticket' has been filed do we as customers find out the outcome?
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It does seem a bit strange to accept that UK packs very rarely arrive and then when one doesnt, (however rarely), call scammer on the buyer.
I would have a UK pack not arrive every now and again and although i might not completey believe them you still offer refund. Maybe remember the name to make sure it doesnt happen again.
Anyway, Japan1980 is a solid buyer and an attempeted scam for such a small amount of money makes no sense.
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We should be allowed, as buyers, to be more honest and open with feedback. This unwritten rule of always leaving 5/5 doesn't help buyers at all.
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Jap....would you be willing let me fix this for you both,
If so please PM me ASAP
RxKing
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It does seem a bit strange to accept that UK packs very rarely arrive and then when one doesnt, (however rarely), call scammer on the buyer.
I would have a UK pack not arrive every now and again and although i might not completey believe them you still offer refund. Maybe remember the name to make sure it doesnt happen again.
Anyway, Japan1980 is a solid buyer and an attempeted scam for such a small amount of money makes no sense.
^^ This^^ ;)
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SR Support on the main site does not recognize "Vendor Roundtable" as a entity to the industry, it is something we ourselves have compiled for scammers and iresponsable buyers. With that being said, its not a threat.
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We should be allowed, as buyers, to be more honest and open with feedback. This unwritten rule of always leaving 5/5 doesn't help buyers at all.
You can. In the comment section. That's what it's for.
If the number rating system worked right, the unwritten rule of 5/5 wouldn't exist.
Plus, this isn't normal e-commerce. You're sending your address and personal information to a vendor who deals in illegal activities. Don't assume that vendors "purge" your address details. It would be great if we could be assured if they did.
That's why there's an unwritten rule about leaving 5/5s. The exception is if you see a lot of people doing it a vendor. That's a true scammer and unless they are dealt with, they will continue to scam.
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We should be allowed, as buyers, to be more honest and open with feedback. This unwritten rule of always leaving 5/5 doesn't help buyers at all.
You can. In the comment section. That's what it's for.
If the number rating system worked right, the unwritten rule of 5/5 wouldn't exist.
Plus, this isn't normal e-commerce. You're sending your address and personal information to a vendor who deals in illegal activities. Don't assume that vendors "purge" your address details. It would be great if we could be assured if they did.
That's why there's an unwritten rule about leaving 5/5s. The exception is if you see a lot of people doing it a vendor. That's a true scammer and unless they are dealt with, they will continue to scam.
The comments section doesn't effect their rating though, and that's the first thing one see's, next to their name
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We should be allowed, as buyers, to be more honest and open with feedback. This unwritten rule of always leaving 5/5 doesn't help buyers at all.
You can. In the comment section. That's what it's for.
If the number rating system worked right, the unwritten rule of 5/5 wouldn't exist.
Plus, this isn't normal e-commerce. You're sending your address and personal information to a vendor who deals in illegal activities. Don't assume that vendors "purge" your address details. It would be great if we could be assured if they did.
That's why there's an unwritten rule about leaving 5/5s. The exception is if you see a lot of people doing it a vendor. That's a true scammer and unless they are dealt with, they will continue to scam.
I don't go by the 'unwritten rule' of leaving 5/5 if a vendor doesn't deserve it - them possibly having your address doesn't bother me one bit. Firstly the address I leave isn't mine - and secondly the persons address I do leave you'd have to turn up with the fucking Army to get past him and his brothers...
I don't believe gotmilk is a scammer at all, in fact I'm pretty certain he's not and clearly does well on this site - but for such a small order (0.33bitcoin) and my reputation on SR, would I really try and scam for that?
I loan out bigger amounts than that on the spare coins thread to completely anonymous people - so it makes no sense to think I'd scam for that amount.
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I use the problem buyer list probably about twice a week. If someone refuses to even attempt to communicate with me and leaves negeative feedback I certainly warn other vendors of this problem buyer. This sort of customer leaves the vendor no recourse and is not worth the hassle.
Keep in mind that personal information is never revealed, only the Silk Road username. Since there is no feedback for buyers it is really our only way to keep track of people that are just not worth dealing with.
That being said it should not be used for threats. It should not be used for negotiating feedback. Instead of trying to haggle for a 5/5 he should have just notified the user.
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I use the problem buyer list probably about twice a week. If someone refuses to even attempt to communicate with me and leaves negeative feedback I certainly warn other vendors of this problem buyer. This sort of customer leaves the vendor no recourse and is not worth the hassle.
Keep in mind that personal information is never revealed, only the Silk Road username. Since there is no feedback for buyers it is really our only way to keep track of people that are just not worth dealing with.
That being said it should not be used for threats. It should not be used for negotiating feedback. Instead of trying to haggle for a 5/5 he should have just notified the user.
So out of interest after reading this thread - would you class me as a problem buyer?
Thanks for your input too 8)
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I think you're just a bloody problem all round ;) :D Not seen you on the UK/EU heroin thread for ages (besides shamelessly promoting a certain other thread!) Come back to us! It's full of dispater's army of distraction!
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We should be allowed, as buyers, to be more honest and open with feedback. This unwritten rule of always leaving 5/5 doesn't help buyers at all.
You can. In the comment section. That's what it's for.
If the number rating system worked right, the unwritten rule of 5/5 wouldn't exist.
Plus, this isn't normal e-commerce. You're sending your address and personal information to a vendor who deals in illegal activities. Don't assume that vendors "purge" your address details. It would be great if we could be assured if they did.
That's why there's an unwritten rule about leaving 5/5s. The exception is if you see a lot of people doing it a vendor. That's a true scammer and unless they are dealt with, they will continue to scam.
The comments section doesn't effect their rating though, and that's the first thing one see's, next to their name
That's the point. Why should YOU affect their rating from one bad transaction? Think about it. Is that really fair? When all the other transactions are fine, yours just happens to have gone bad. It makes your rating stand out as a fluke or as a shit buyer who might be trying to scam.
However, if your experience as a buyer is part of a pattern with a vendor, hey, it's all fair then.
Look, after being on the road for 2 years or so, I've only had 2 problems and never had to leave less than a 5/5. I don't have unrealistic expectations. I don't do stupid crap out of "principle" and I don't mess around with dealers.
I don't go by the 'unwritten rule' of leaving 5/5 if a vendor doesn't deserve it - them possibly having your address doesn't bother me one bit. Firstly the address I leave isn't mine - and secondly the persons address I do leave you'd have to turn up with the fucking Army to get past him and his brothers...
I don't believe gotmilk is a scammer at all, in fact I'm pretty certain he's not and clearly does well on this site - but for such a small order (0.33bitcoin) and my reputation on SR, would I really try and scam for that?
I loan out bigger amounts than that on the spare coins thread to completely anonymous people - so it makes no sense to think I'd scam for that amount.
Wait a second. Then why even go through any hassle for such a small order to begin with? Even going to resolutions for an amount you declare is trivial?
And you should be worried about using someone else's address for a delivery. Saying that they have an veritable army is irrelevant. A rogue or pissed off vendor doesn't have to do much to get that address on LEO's radar or purposely do something that ends up in a controlled delivery. How do you think your buddies would feel about that?
I know my people wouldn't like it one bit. And that's why I don't do stupid things on SR. I play it cool. Granted, I haven't lost a dime on here yet - knock on wood - because I'm reasonable and realistic. Patient too. And if you ever bought drugs off the street, you know you win some and loss some. You just roll with the punches.
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Ben when you say why go through all the hassle for such a small amount - my answer to that is it's the principle that counts. I'm not going to finalise an order that I didn't receive, whether it be .10 or 15.0 BTC.
Fortunately this is the first time being on the road that on order didn't arrive, and I've made a fair few in this time frame (probably 14-15months). Touch wood it won't happen again.
If you knew the set up of the premises I was talking about, a rogue vendor giving details to LEA etc - wouldn't make any difference. Obviously I'm not going to go into details of the premise, but it's perfect for SR.
I sometimes use my own address - just depends on whether the Mrs is working or not and also if I am or not, as she hates SR with a passion!!
You yourself said the fairest feedback (before the blackmail) would have been 3/5 - I bet if I had left that I would have received the same message. Buyers shouldn't be pressured into giving vendors 5/5 when it's not a 5/5 service. 99% of my orders are 5/5 as I am pretty much happy with every order - I think I've only left less than a 5 maybe 3 times.
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So out of interest after reading this thread - would you class me as a problem buyer?
Thanks for your input too 8)
I don't know what the vendors policies were. I can say that when a user and I mutually agree to a resolution and the user sounds happy but then leaves negative feedback then it is annoying.
I will also say that if my policy says one things and the buyer gives me negative feedback because they don't agree with those policies then that is a deal breaker.
For example I say that I do a 50% refund in cases of non-arrival, sometimes a user demands a 100% refund and leaves negative feedback because I only give 50%. This user ends up on the problem buyer list.
If you made it clear that your were not happy with the resolution then the feedback is reasonable. I really only avoid buyers who don't give me a chance to resolve the issue. If I saw you buy from me I would probably have a talk with you first to make sure you understand and accept my policies. To make sure you won't leave negative feedback even if we work out a solution.
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So out of interest after reading this thread - would you class me as a problem buyer?
Thanks for your input too 8)
I don't know what the vendors policies were. I can say that when a user and I mutually agree to a resolution and the user sounds happy but then leaves negative feedback then it is annoying.
I will also say that if my policy says one things and the buyer gives me negative feedback because they don't agree with those policies then that is a deal breaker.
For example I say that I do a 50% refund in cases of non-arrival, sometimes a user demands a 100% refund and leaves negative feedback because I only give 50%. This user ends up on the problem buyer list.
If you made it clear that your were not happy with the resolution then the feedback is reasonable. I really only avoid buyers who don't give me a chance to resolve the issue. If I saw you buy from me I would probably have a talk with you first to make sure you understand and accept my policies. To make sure you won't leave negative feedback even if we work out a solution.
^this seems 100% fair / legit.. however, I do not see any evidence that gotmilk preformed in that professional like manner. infact from reading his posts I get the exact opposite feeling, he comes off a bit angry an childish, to me. but that just my opinion :P
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We should be allowed, as buyers, to be more honest and open with feedback. This unwritten rule of always leaving 5/5 doesn't help buyers at all.
You can. In the comment section. That's what it's for.
If the number rating system worked right, the unwritten rule of 5/5 wouldn't exist.
Plus, this isn't normal e-commerce. You're sending your address and personal information to a vendor who deals in illegal activities. Don't assume that vendors "purge" your address details. It would be great if we could be assured if they did.
That's why there's an unwritten rule about leaving 5/5s. The exception is if you see a lot of people doing it a vendor. That's a true scammer and unless they are dealt with, they will continue to scam.
The comments section doesn't effect their rating though, and that's the first thing one see's, next to their name
That's the point. Why should YOU affect their rating from one bad transaction? Think about it. Is that really fair? When all the other transactions are fine, yours just happens to have gone bad. It makes your rating stand out as a fluke or as a shit buyer who might be trying to scam.
However, if your experience as a buyer is part of a pattern with a vendor, hey, it's all fair then.
Look, after being on the road for 2 years or so, I've only had 2 problems and never had to leave less than a 5/5. I don't have unrealistic expectations. I don't do stupid crap out of "principle" and I don't mess around with dealers.
Because Ben, a vendor could just turn rogue, as many have done, and you could be the first one to be fucked over, and then leaving a 1/5 will effect their stats and show to others. Sam Giacana or whatever was still being left 5/5's on his last major scam because he was promising special "off the books" deals to people. I'm sorry I don't have your wealth of experience on the SR, but one should be able to leave whatever feedback is deserved, not just a comment next to 5/5. Or what is the fucking point in having it? people on ebay don't demand 5/5 and refuse to sell to you if you leave anything less. It's a buyers market, we deserve the control and ability to speak our mind and give what is earned by the vendor.
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The blackmailing part is way over the line BUT once you agreed to the 65% refund that's your freakin problem
Disregarding the vendors policy, you 2 discussed the refund amount and settled on 65% (whether you liked it or not that's something else) but once you finalized knowing you'll get only 65% you should give him the 5/5
The blackmailing part came only after your feedback which at that point I take the vendors side, like I said before if you weren't satisfied with only 65% refund than you shouldn't have finalized the order and try to work something out.
GOTMILK did some sketchy shit, but you ain't no saint brother
P.S - just looked over the vendor's page and he clearly state that any lost package will earn you with 50% refund or reship.
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The blackmailing part is way over the line BUT once you agreed to the 65% refund that's your freakin problem
Disregarding the vendors policy, you 2 discussed the refund amount and settled on 65% (whether you liked it or not that's something else) but once you finalized knowing you'll get only 65% you should give him the 5/5
The blackmailing part came only after your feedback which at that point I take the vendors side, like I said before if you weren't satisfied with only 65% refund than you shouldn't have finalized the order and try to work something out.
GOTMILK did some sketchy shit, but you ain't no saint brother
P.S - just looked over the vendor's page and he clearly state that any lost package will earn you with 50% refund or reship.
The 50% was added recently, after this happened.
I would of given him 5/5 but the contact in resolution was so fucking minimal - I was trying to get this resolved, and he was just ignoring me. He managed to get a 14 day extension, still no package. He offered a reship but said it could take a month - I'm not waiting a month for 30 diazepam!! Plus I don't like the idea of reships and by then Id gone elsewhere for some diazepam anyway. I finalized because this started on the 17th May and was finally resolved on 23rd June - FAR too long to be pissing about in my opinion.
2/5 is what my experience with this vendor was - that's why I gave the rating. The Blackmailing is the fucking sketchy part.
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but once you finalized knowing you'll get only 65% you should give him the 5/5
Why should he give 5/5, if the route that led to that refund was a tortuous and unpleasant one?
5/5 suggests you are happy with the way the whole deal went.
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The blackmailing part is way over the line BUT once you agreed to the 65% refund that's your freakin problem
Disregarding the vendors policy, you 2 discussed the refund amount and settled on 65% (whether you liked it or not that's something else) but once you finalized knowing you'll get only 65% you should give him the 5/5
The blackmailing part came only after your feedback which at that point I take the vendors side, like I said before if you weren't satisfied with only 65% refund than you shouldn't have finalized the order and try to work something out.
GOTMILK did some sketchy shit, but you ain't no saint brother
P.S - just looked over the vendor's page and he clearly state that any lost package will earn you with 50% refund or reship.
The 50% was added recently, after this happened.
I would of given him 5/5 but the contact in resolution was so fucking minimal - I was trying to get this resolved, and he was just ignoring me. He managed to get a 14 day extension, still no package. He offered a reship but said it could take a month - I'm not waiting a month for 30 diazepam!! Plus I don't like the idea of reships and by then Id gone elsewhere for some diazepam anyway. I finalized because this started on the 17th May and was finally resolved on 23rd June - FAR too long to be pissing about in my opinion.
2/5 is what my experience with this vendor was - that's why I gave the rating. The Blackmailing is the fucking sketchy part.
Well, I wasn't aware the 50% refund part was added lately (you have any idea what is was before?)
Leaving that aside, as a buyer just like you I understand everything you say, it's frustrating and I understand you wanted to find a fast solution to this problem.
More so GOTMILK should have addressed you in a much more respectable way, non-threathing of course but the point is we all do illegal deals here and once in a while a package will get lost/seized (assuming the vendor is legit) - in that case both the vendor and buyer need to find a solution (either by the vendor's policy which you agreed to upon placing your order) or any deal you two made while in Resolution center.
My point is that if you felt he treated you wrong and you deserved more than 65% refund than you shouldn't have finalized even tho you wanted to "finish it quickly" because once you did - the way I see it - you agreed to this "deal" and therefore he doesn't deserve such low feedback.
Anyway from the moment he sent you that blackmailing message you had every right posting this here and you should do whatever you feel right - I only hope you understand where I'm coming from, I'm not attacking you nor I'm protecting GOTMILK, I just think you BOTH could have done it differently without all of this unnecessary mess.
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but once you finalized knowing you'll get only 65% you should give him the 5/5
Why should he give 5/5, if the route that led to that refund was a tortuous and unpleasant one?
5/5 suggests you are happy with the way the whole deal went.
My point which you obviously missed is that Japan shouldn't have finalized at the first place , and once he did, that's as if he agrees to that deal (and if he agreed than why rate it as 2/5?)
He could have left it at the resolution center and come here warning us that GOTMILK is an unfair vendor and has a lousy customer service - now that's a whole different accusation than blackmailing.
That doesn't mean for even one second that I justify GOTMILK's attempt at blackmailing Japan.
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@TheDead, is that you gotmilk ::)?
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@TheDead, is that you gotmilk ::)?
The responses do seem a bit personal.. otherwise, why would some random person be so engaged!! ??? I dunno..
sucks either way!!
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The blackmailing part is way over the line BUT once you agreed to the 65% refund that's your freakin problem
Disregarding the vendors policy, you 2 discussed the refund amount and settled on 65% (whether you liked it or not that's something else) but once you finalized knowing you'll get only 65% you should give him the 5/5
The blackmailing part came only after your feedback which at that point I take the vendors side, like I said before if you weren't satisfied with only 65% refund than you shouldn't have finalized the order and try to work something out.
GOTMILK did some sketchy shit, but you ain't no saint brother
P.S - just looked over the vendor's page and he clearly state that any lost package will earn you with 50% refund or reship.
The 50% was added recently, after this happened.
I would of given him 5/5 but the contact in resolution was so fucking minimal - I was trying to get this resolved, and he was just ignoring me. He managed to get a 14 day extension, still no package. He offered a reship but said it could take a month - I'm not waiting a month for 30 diazepam!! Plus I don't like the idea of reships and by then Id gone elsewhere for some diazepam anyway. I finalized because this started on the 17th May and was finally resolved on 23rd June - FAR too long to be pissing about in my opinion.
2/5 is what my experience with this vendor was - that's why I gave the rating. The Blackmailing is the fucking sketchy part.
Well, I wasn't aware the 50% refund part was added lately (you have any idea what is was before?)
Leaving that aside, as a buyer just like you I understand everything you say, it's frustrating and I understand you wanted to find a fast solution to this problem.
More so GOTMILK should have addressed you in a much more respectable way, non-threathing of course but the point is we all do illegal deals here and once in a while a package will get lost/seized (assuming the vendor is legit) - in that case both the vendor and buyer need to find a solution (either by the vendor's policy which you agreed to upon placing your order) or any deal you two made while in Resolution center.
My point is that if you felt he treated you wrong and you deserved more than 65% refund than you shouldn't have finalized even tho you wanted to "finish it quickly" because once you did - the way I see it - you agreed to this "deal" and therefore he doesn't deserve such low feedback.
Anyway from the moment he sent you that blackmailing message you had every right posting this here and you should do whatever you feel right - I only hope you understand where I'm coming from, I'm not attacking you nor I'm protecting GOTMILK, I just think you BOTH could have done it differently without all of this unnecessary mess.
In hindsight I think we would both probably agree that things could of been handled slightly different. He says he has a 100% record on packages sent to the UK - therefore because mine didn't turn he thinks I scammed him. If he knew anything about me or the type of person I am I wouldn't dream of scamming a vendor - in fact I'm the complete opposite, and many people that do know me here would vouch for that.
I just felt that all he wanted all the way along was a reship, I don't particularly like the idea of a reship myself. So I didn't accept - he then managed to get a 14 day extension in the resolution - still nothing. BTW - He said the reship could take a month to arrive!! A month to the UK, even if you sent a leter from MARS it wouldn't take a month to arrive in the UK! So I started high (as you would for a refund 100%, That wasn't accepted so I dropped and dropped until I thought fuck this lets get this finished once and for all and settled on 65%. That didn't necessarily make me happy with the outcome but I just wanted it done and dusted so I accepted. So the rating was my whole individual experience with the vendor, nothing more nothing less. I'm sure there have been time he thoroughly deserved his 5/5's but on this occasion he didn't.
Well we wont go into the blackmailing part because that is plain to see that NO vendors should be treating customers like that.
It's the principle that counts - and the 0.2 refund I got I would happily give away to anyone in need - In fact I might look down the list I have of loans I've lent in the spare coins thread, and say keep that to someone that owes me 0.2 - But yeah I try to do the
Like I say this went on from the 17th May and was finally resolved on the 23rd June - so in the end just took what I could (out of principle)
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He pulled the same shit with me. Im drunk or id post the evidence.
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THIS SHOULD NOT BE TOLERATED, I DON'T THINK ANYONE WOULD ARGUE WITH YOUR STATS. ITS PRETTY OBVIOUS THAT THIS WAS A BITTER VENDOR. THE STATS SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES.
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He pulled the same shit with me. Im drunk or id post the evidence.
Would love to see the evidence, so when you're not drunk post it please ;D
Also, file a complaint on SR - the more attempts of blackmail SR admins are aware of is surely better for SR as a whole.
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THIS SHOULD NOT BE TOLERATED, I DON'T THINK ANYONE WOULD ARGUE WITH YOUR STATS. ITS PRETTY OBVIOUS THAT THIS WAS A BITTER VENDOR. THE STATS SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES.
I had over 130 transactions with 0%refund and 0% auto finalise - perfect stats.
It was only a small amount of coin - 30 valium FFS, it was the principle not the money why I didn't finalise. I could have let this be and still have perfect stats - but like I say it's the principle.
It seems he's pulled the same stunt on others too - would love more evidence so this vendor gets outed. BLACKMAIL should not be tolerated on SR.
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+1 Japan ;) this guy would not scm anyone, has loaned me coin twice. The vendor should have refunded if he was willing to reship, whats the difference :-\
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Wow laughed my ass off at the "he deserves more then 2/5" post maybe a negative 5 for bad manners and that's a pretty high score considering the general fuck the customer attitude who just happens to have great stats.
So not only is the vendor a moron he seems not to want repeat business with a solid customer..... has this guy even got any product to send out ? ? ?
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Hi All.
Firstly before doing a very small transaction of 30 diazepam with 'gotmilk' my stats were 130+ transactions, 0% refund and 0% auto finalization - so perfect on all accounts.
My order did not arrive and I was in resolution for nearly a month before we finally agreed on a 65% refund. I didn't want a reship as I didn't want the hassle of waiting again as 'gotmilk' seem to think it can take upto a month for a package to arrive to the UK.
I gave the vendor a rating of 2/5 and basically said I found it hard work trying to resolve the issue with the vendor, on my feedback - I see that as being a fair reflection of the situation.
I suddenly receive a message saying this (I will post all PM correspondence, so start from the bottom then read up) - I would be interested in peoples thoughts on this as to me this is blatantly using their vendor status to blackmail buyers to give fake reviews/feedback -
gotmilk(95) I put you on the vendor blacklist for being a cunt
you will now be forced to FE with all the smart vendors.
5/5 within say next 24 hours wont post your name on the blacklist in vendors forum.
I also think you ripped me off after that review. 42 minutes read delete
Japan1980 I'll take the 65% refund - thanks. 1 day read delete
gotmilk(95) resend me address will mail in AM.
refund is stupid over $15 usd? 1 day read delete
Japan1980 Check the latest resolution offer and see what you think.
This is going on far too long, I would rather just draw a line over it and move on.
Kind Regards,
J 1 day read delete
I like to think I have a good reputation on SR and in the forums, so for a vendor to be able to try and flex their muscles to put off any future vendors I may deal with is truly out of order.
THOUGHTS?
Understanding for both in a way, because it's frustrating for both sides to see that orders don't come trough.
I would not call this blackmail because if your stats are correct other vendors (can speak for us only) would not ask you to fe.
So that little action of the vendor does not change anything...
Vendors are as powerful as the buyers, when a vendor fucks up consistently it will be over very soon.
But still it's not cool.
Try us for a win/win situation in the future :)
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J-Man
Point taken...maybe think about locking this thread....
No offrense meant....
let it go.....it's done....
Love ya japan man :)
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If he wants to add you to a ban list with the reasoning wouldn't let me reship, I doubt the vendors are all as one in agreement.
I've seen the vendor's forum from when Tunbear was a vendor, it was funny, roundtable is a perfect name because it's one big circle jerk. It just seemed like so many were up their own arses. Generally though I'd call it venting because as has been said, vendors deal with WAY more scamming customers than the other way round, so it's a place to vent. I'd hate to be a drug dealer on here having to be all nice and act like a jehovah's witness just to satisfy someone who has such power to screw them over, so not surprised they can get so wound up. Always 2 sides to a situation :) I think 65% is a very fair refund btw, if he's sending products from India he probably still ended up with a bit of profit even after the refund, the stuff is mad-cheap there!
If DrugsUK ends up going India with Tunbear to buy more MXE it'll be less than £1000 a kilo if bought in bulkl, cheapest you could get it here in a kilo was about £4000, and thats when it was legal, now its at probably double that!
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Yo Cloud Surfer,
I've done business with you in the past and it was faultless, and I would definitely use you again if you had what I was after at the right time. In fact I've recommended a few people towards you, as like I said the transaction was faultless in every way.
The thing is gotmilk was trying to scare me with some shitty list that I would end up on! Other than that transaction my time on SR has been perfect - and any vendor would see that when I placed an order. The list must be pretty useless because since all this happened I've used 3 or 4 new vendors and they've had no problems with my custom. I'm upto over 140 transactions and I think my refund rate is 0.68% - which in my eyes is still more than respectable. So whatever list I'm on means very little to me, as I'm on many other peoples personal lists for being a genuine buyer and an honest guy that helps people out when possible.
oh well life goes on and I'm fine about being blacklisted, purely because any vendor with sense would see my stats and happily do business with me.
A vendor that's part of the roundtable said don't worry the majority of people think gotmilk's a twat anyway - which I must say made me chuckle!
Peace,
J
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Is there really a 'blacklist' on the roundtable thread?!? ???
I DO NOT want to end up there!! :-X
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Japan: You are awesome. I never read this thread until just now and I am glad my post inspired others to stand up.
I didn't receive an order from Liston. There was a pattern of items being shipped 1 to 2 weeks after marked in transit, shitty stealth (which is my opinion, unlike the facts I present), not receiving a package for three weeks, sending an email and being told that it had been shipped, only to get it three days later and discover that the item was mailed after I told him I didn't get it, and just shitty customer service all around. The only thing he was fast to do was mark the item in transit, sometimes in the middle of the night, five minutes after I placed the order. I had an order that was domestic, because I basically don't do international. I was dicked around for weeks, told that it HAD BEEN DELIVERED! I mean, he said the tracking info said delivered, but I can't believe someone with a track record like that, plus I had specifically told him that I ONLY order domestic and declined international on previous occasions. I had done about 15 transaction with him and he had a 5/5 and kind words from me even though he dicked me around on shipping times. I did not receive the order. I have eyes and a brain and I know whether or not something is in my box. I told him and he was an asshole about it. I would have probably let it slide to continue doing business with him, but after being a loyal customer who was always straight up while he was keeping people's addresses and send them all over the globe, but he was an ass about it. I told him that I was going to file a dispute in the Resolution Center and he said bring it on. I did. I was threatened of having my liberty and freedom taken away from a drug dealer that keeps addys for blackmail and says he will narc on me?
Needless to say, I got a 100% refund, he was banned. He came back because he paid the bond and made no secret that it was him. He was "liston" came back a few days later as "listonishere". His seller page was identical. HE POSTED THE SAME EMAIL ADDRESS AS THE ONE ON HIS BANNED ACCOUNT!!!! He had the same product line up! Yet silk road wants this guy? I would think they make enough to not have to deal with self names snitches, but who knows.
My point is this. JAPAN, you are the man for standing up for yourself against a vendor like that. Let him put you on some dumbass forum. I don't care if pissedon, I mean liston put me on some blacklist. Fuck him. I let my stats speak for themselves. When I leave feedback, I have decided since the beginning that I am either leaving a 5/5 or a 1/5, no exceptions. If I get my product, it is real, and the vendor has been straight up and honest with me, he gets a 5. If I don't get it, get a fake, or get lied to (not suspecting that I am lied to, knowing that I have been lied to or manipulated), then I will leave a 1 of 5.
I have only left 1's three times. First was when I was a newbie. First transaction to a new seller who required everyone to FE then two days later he was gone, though I was allowed to leave feedback, his profile was removed. The second time was when liston threatened to snitch me out, but I am sure someone would says I should have given him a 4/5 and just left a comment. lol. Fuck that. He was banned and I had to burn a box and get another one! The last time was lately with the realrickgrimes, or the fakeassrickgrimes, who scammed me and a lot of others by saying we had to FE because he was going "on vacation"....with all the sucker's, including myself, money.
You can put me on any list you want. i leave honest feedback. I don't care about my stats suffering. If you scam me, lie to me, or make an honest mistake and then realize it and just plain out refuse to correct it, then you are getting a 1/5 from me and I am going to come on here and bitch about it in my blacklist. lol.
As I said. Let your stats speak for themselves. Stand up for yourself. Everyone whom I have dealt with has gotten a 5/5. The ones that didn't are gone now anyway because they were scammers, or in liston's aka listonishere 's case, scammers, multiple seller policy breakers, and self-admitted snitches.
I don't know anything about your situation, Japan, except what I read on here. One thing is for sure, though. No matter what list you may be on, your stats piss all over that list. You did what you thought was right and I personally think you should have demanded a 100 percent refund as I am an all or nothing kind of guy. But you did what was right.
I now know of TWO vendors that I will not be doing business with thanks to you, Japan. That is why this forum is so invaluable. People can say anything they want but we are the jury and I know my decision and it seems the community has issued a verdict in your favor! My case was easier because liston please guilty and was given the chair by the admins. He just had enough money to buy his way off death row and now roams the road again, with semen stained pants from constantly jerking off when he can't find his next rape victim.