Silk Road forums
Support => Feature requests => Topic started by: jh0000n on April 28, 2012, 04:28 pm
-
Ok I cant believe this idea didnt hit me sooner to post and ive seen it done before on another place. So it goes like this when a vendor joins SR they have to submit a down payment of lets say $1000 to DPR this payment stays in escrow as long as the vendor is selling on the road. If the vendor decides to pull a scam the money is forfeited and spread evenly among whoever got scammed. Now im sure 1000$ wont cover all the loss but its atleast something( the down payment ammount can always be raised ofcourse).The main feature to doing this is it will deter the majority of scammers joining SR. This coupled with the escrow system would be dynamite! Please if everyone likes this idea lets petition DPR to implement this..im sure he wouldnt mind the extra cash on hand anyway ;D
EDIT: I forgot to specify that the downpayment is optional ofcourse and a vendor can choose to be "Verified" or not .....but I know who im getting my dope from
-
I don't think most people would even bother vending if they had to put up that kind of cash up front when they can sell in real life. I think it would discourage most and almost all vendors.
The only people who would have that kind of spare money would either be successful at selling and not need to vend here or just rich already and not worried about the cash, but just want to help people have access to quality drugs, and the latter is very rare type of person.
-
I had a feeling somebody would bring that up...i was just editing when you posted. being verified should be an option for the vendors. BUT for example if your getting 100% RAW MADE BY OSAMA HIMSELF HEROIN OFF THE TON and have connects like that im sure putting down 1G wont kill you and will raise your sales through the roof. theyd probably get theat G back in a month max.
-
I agree with you on that. It would basically be for vendors who already have established a good track record and are pulling a lot of orders in which they wouldn't need to be verified since they already are by doing what they are suppose to and even if they did fork out the grand which wouldn't be any serious amount of money to them, they would easily make that back plus ten fold if they decided to scam everyone and disappear randomly.
It is just something we will have to deal with as a community and that is people scamming which is nothing new, and everyone knows how not to get scammed, but ignore the guidlines for certain people, then are butthurt when something happens even though they knew the risk, but never thought that vendor would do it since he had been a model vendor in his category for x amount of time.
It sucks, but I have easily lost more money in real life than I am sure I ever will here which I haven't lost any yet, but got lucky that Prof T was a stand up guy and Vroom was too or I would of lost over 300 dollars.
-
As a person who is laying the groundwork for being a (hopefully) Primo top notch vendor in my specialty I have to say.. I would never vend on Silk Road if there were a mandatory bond like this. The reason is simple..
*I don't know I can make money on Silk Road yet!!*.
Sure I THINK I can.. so I am investing in VPS, .onion construction, packing supplies, shipping solutions etc, plus lots of time putting my name out there in the forums, P.R., pre-selling myself, but all that's trivial. I can afford to list on S.R. and have EVERY SINGLE BUYER be a scam artist. And I grow my own. If I was buying my supply to sell.. I'd take a pass for sure on a big bond.
Now a mandatory bond on the BTC Vendors makes sense.. cause they have no product tied up in escrow.. the Bond Substitutes for their lack of escrow risk.. but normal vendors? Nah... I'd rather just thank DPR for the wonderful idea about BTC/Tor-drug shops and do my own thing on my own .onion. I've already lost $250 to a scammer chasing this vending dream.. that's quite enough. And I'm highly capitalized and organized compared to most prospective vendors.
-
This is a bad idea. Vendors get scammed too. If I were a vendor and I got scammed by a buyer then I'd want some kind of insurance policy for me too now. At which point I think you can see that this starts getting a little ridiculous.
-
you already need to pay 35 BTC to become a vendor. if you need to pay 1kusd besides that , and ppl will claim you didnt send . and you did send it. then customer will get his money and got the product. and what if you dont got 1k upfront . i think most vendors wont bother to vend anymore here. then they go somewhere else or make there own silkroad
-
you already need to pay 35 BTC to become a vendor. if you need to pay 1kusd besides that , and ppl will claim you didnt send . and you did send it. then customer will get his money and got the product. and what if you dont got 1k upfront . i think most vendors wont bother to vend anymore here. then they go somewhere else or make there own silkroad
+1 any idea to improve security is good but this seems unrealistic burden on vendors
-
If the vendor wants assurance he can send the shipment with tracking. Either way there is escrow to protect the vendor as well. Also I dont know of any drug dealer who dosent have 1G to give upfront....I could of done that when I was in grd 9 selling pot. I dont know what to say but the way things are going now I dont see a very nice future for SR if we dont change something soon. Theres scammers every week coming on here ripping people off. My idea WILL NOT stop all scams but would deffinately cut them down and ensure that the vendor is of a higher standard and not some kid that grabbed an 8-ball to send out a few orders than scam everyone ::)
-
A grand up front for something you don't know is going to pay you back where you profit from in a quick time frame is a unwanted risk where you could just buy more product. For a dealer to invest 1 grand he would need to get his money back plus the money to re up and profit money in a fairly short time frame for it to be worth his while or else he would just be coming out even which is pointless to a dealer to spend time, energy, and freedom for breaking even. It just would be hustling backwards.
The dealer doesn't know how quick his stuff will move, and the gamble seems higher than the potential reward from a new dealer view.
That is just my opinion and how I would view it if I was selling since I have been a dealer and know what makes sense to keep selling. It just doesn't add up when you look at it from that perspective.
-
I appreciate everyones feedback on the idea but I think there may be a little confusion :)
1.The down payment is optional only if the vendor wants to have a "Verifed status"
2.If the vendor lists products and dosent make sales he/she can redeem the downpayment when leaving SR as long as there are no outstanding sales.
3.This option is only for vendors who can still re-up if they have 1 G tied up...thats the whole point to seperate the vendors that are established from the ones that need every last dollar from sales just to re-up. aka please FE or I cant re-up.
-
I've had to learn the hard way a few times, but I have finally gotten the message: It doesn't matter what kind of scam a vendor tries to pull on the Road, as long as you stay within escrow, it WILL NOT EFFECT YOU.
That's all there is to it. The escrow system is the primary reason Silk Road works. Buyers don't have to trust vendors, because as long as they stay within the escrow system, they are protected.
Vendors need not trust new buyers, either. They can protect their asses against "reverse scammers" by using DCNs.
Also, vendors having money tied up in escrow that's preventing them from restocking is not our fucking problem as buyers. I'm sorry, but it just isn't, and it's just ridiculous to claim otherwise.
Think about this for a moment: You're about to go score your drug of choice in "real life" from your guy. So you go to dude's house, meet spot, where ever it is you go, and dude has the goodies on him. The transaction goes smoothly and everyone is happy. Repeat as many times as you like.
The next time, however, dude is all sketched out. Needs your cash up front. Says he has to run up the road, he'll be back in 30 minutes. Or that he "needs the cash up front so he can re-up". Red flag? You comfortable with this? I've done it anyway. So have most of you. I've gotten burned. And I'm sure, so have most of you. Which way would you rather have had the deal go down?
This place is no different. There are drug users, drug dealers, and cops here. Just like in real life. The Road is a really cool and unique place, but it mirrors real life in just about every way because it IS REAL LIFE. The same type of people we all know and love or hate in real life are the same people meeting here in cyberspace. It's just us...
-
I've got an even better idea.. Quit getting wooed in to finalizing early and blaming everyone but yourself for your lapse in judgement.
"A fool and his money are lucky to have ever made an acquaintance"
-
I don't think most people would even bother vending if they had to put up that kind of cash up front when they can sell in real life. I think it would discourage most and almost all vendors.
The only people who would have that kind of spare money would either be successful at selling and not need to vend here or just rich already and not worried about the cash, but just want to help people have access to quality drugs, and the latter is very rare type of person.
I 100% disagree.
Spoken like a true non vendor!
I am more then successful at selling in the "real world" I came here because in the real world no one would pay these prices. At least RX wise.
I would think any vendor on here has that kind of cash. If they don't, they are REALLY doing something wrong.
You say The only people who would have that kind of spare money would either be successful at selling and not need to vend here or just rich already and not worried about the cash, but just want to help people have access to quality drugs, and the latter is very rare type of person
Well I say.... I am "rich" already. And I still worry about cash and I want people to buy my quality drugs. But I don't think I opened up shop on here just to get my quality drugs to people. I opened up because I could undercut the competition I saw,give great service and still make more money then I can with the exact same thing on the street. PERIOD.
I still have a street business.
I think that he could even have a system(for my game) where as a vendor you had to send him a picture as in a private listing every couple weeks as to your inventory. Sure I know photos can be doctored but it would still be another line of defense. The picture would have to have something dated in it of course and prove you even have what you are about to sell.
I also think you should have to tell him the quantity of drugs you have to sell. And make it so many a batch. Then once you sell that "batch". Your up with him and start all over. So like every 2 weeks you re-up.This way someone can't be great for 6 months then at the "end" fuck everyone.
I also think that if you go "on vacation" as a vendor then you could get your post up money right back. There could also be a system in place where vendors are more closely monitored. So A situation where a vendor is doing good for 6 months can't all of a sudden create listings and sell things he does not have or has no intention of sending out.
Customers could still FE early but the "system" would hold funds for lets say 3-5 days when that vendor has an unusual amount of FE business. Now I know what I said would not work 100% but something along those lines would.
Also a vendor that is just starting out, and small, would require less of a deposit. There funds are already held for 3 days now, so that's a start, until they get to 35 transactions.
There are plenty of things that could be implemented. And as a vendor on here if I can't wait a few extra days for funds I am doing something wrong. I would have no problem doing it. I would also be the FIRST to join up. Nothing worse then having a great opening then some asshole comes on here and say's "just wait, he is looking to scam in the future, all he cars about is good ratings"
I know people have done that. That is terrible. But with the system that is in place now..... it is an easy way for these vendors to go out.
I for one think something needs to be done. And I would love to help put a system in place.
I also think feedback and your (100) or whatever your rating should be updated every month. And once you leave feedback you should not be able to edit it. You can maybe edit what you say but not how many stars you say. and if you edit....your original must be left.
All this would only help SR in the future. But I also know this would take a lot of work. But I think it would be work well spent.
RxKing
-
You have money from being a real life dealer which would actually fall into the first category I was talking about.
The second one I was thinking more of someone who comes from a wealth family and has a bunch of money to blow so they get some acid and sell it on SR to provide cheep acid for people and just do it, because they feel that they want to provide this to as many people and not doing it all for financial gain. Basically being a drug activist and trying to spread quality product at good prices because they are rich and can get good deals on quality product and not worry about making money.
I just wanted to clarify what I meant.
-
You have money from being a real life dealer which would actually fall into the first category I was talking about.
The second one I was thinking more of someone who comes from a wealth family and has a bunch of money to blow so they get some acid and sell it on SR to provide cheep acid for people and just do it, because they feel that they want to provide this to as many people and not doing it all for financial gain. Basically being a drug activist and trying to spread quality product at good prices because they are rich and can get good deals on quality product and not worry about making money.
I just wanted to clarify what I meant.
I understood you. I just believe NO ONE is on here because they came from a rich family and they get quality product and they want to provide it to strangers.....so they set up a vendor account and risk getting into a lot of trouble and dealing with all the pain in the ass's there is to provide pills to complete strangers. This is not a site for non-profit. If ANYONE says that they are lying.
That being said....... I think a lot of dealers might have an expensive habit they need to pay for and this is how they do it. Then there are plenty who have no habit and this is a business. And those that couldn't afford it....... if they were REQUIRED to they would find a way. Trust me.
Not saying no one on here is not from a wealthy family. I am just saying that everyone is on here to make money. Some need this, others it is a total bonus(me), others i'm sure just took this opportunity to make a buck.They might not have ever thought about selling til they found the road...... but everyone that is on here now is making some form of profit from SR or they won't be on here for long. There were plenty of people before us ..... on here now..... that lost money.
And I am sure there are some vendors that don't sell a lot and don't make that much money. But those are not the vendors we are talking about. We are talking about the high volume vendors. Lets say over 10k a month in sales. Some much,much more.
Regardless of how or where or why....none of that matters. And I think you will agree. The only point that matters is you said there are a lot of vendors that don't have that money. And I totally disagree. And again, I think depending on the volume they do, then the more or less of a deposit is needed.
I believe it is a good idea. I think that any legit vendor wouldn't mind. I think there are plenty of vendors that don't have huge margins and (use) themselves so they maybe could not or didn't want to participate. But like the guy said. Those guys don't have to get verified. Also each vendor could have a sell limit. There are many things that could be done. I think the most important point and only point is this.................
SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE. THIS SYSTEM DOES NOT WORK. IT IS TOO EASY FOR VENDORS TO SCREW PEOPLE. THAT IS NOT GOOD.
And I think that is one point .....we can both agree on. :)
-
Its not that I think they don't have access to the fund, but they won't feel the need to spend a grand to do this. I am probably wrong though since I think I am underestimating the cash some vendors are collecting.
100k possibly from Tony's sale!!!!!
-
@RxKing having limits on how much a non-verified vendor can sell at a time would work very well with my initial proposal. Because if a vendor has the cash to keep up a volume of 100s of orders a month they deffinately have the cash to put down a deposit. The deposit could also be based on a percentage of the product they have listed for sale for example a vendor has 100g of H posted at 200/g the deposit could be 25% of that ammount working out to $5000. When the vendor sells that ammount (and people recieve their packages) they can post another 100gs and stay at the same deposit. If they want to post less product they get some deposit back if they want to post more they have to add more $ to the deposit. This way if for some reason the vendor decides to scam the deposit can be split among the buyers. Hey id rather get 25 dollars back from 100 then nothing ..ya kno? This way vendors can still require buyers to FE because I know thats a big issue with alot of vendors otherwise it has to just be escrow 100% of the time...theres no other way.
-
This the same thing they are discussing on BMR for a while how to stop scammers sounds like a good idea started Apr 6/2012
-
Theres only one downside I can see to implementing this type of system and thats....if DPR chooses to pull a scam it would be the biggest freaking scam online drug dealing has ever seen. Imagine how many deposits floating in escrow + buyers funds floating in escrow he could walk away with...it would be insane. Other than that possibility I say we petition for something like this on SR it will benifit everyone in the long run and make SR a much more prestigious place.
-
I've got an even better idea.. Quit getting wooed in to finalizing early and blaming everyone but yourself for your lapse in judgement.
"A fool and his money are lucky to have ever made an acquaintance"
+1 people that FE deserve to be scammed, a vendor has to provide the goods if the money are on the table (escrow)
-
@RxKing having limits on how much a non-verified vendor can sell at a time would work very well with my initial proposal. Because if a vendor has the cash to keep up a volume of 100s of orders a month they deffinately have the cash to put down a deposit. The deposit could also be based on a percentage of the product they have listed for sale for example a vendor has 100g of H posted at 200/g the deposit could be 25% of that ammount working out to $5000. When the vendor sells that ammount (and people recieve their packages) they can post another 100gs and stay at the same deposit. If they want to post less product they get some deposit back if they want to post more they have to add more $ to the deposit. This way if for some reason the vendor decides to scam the deposit can be split among the buyers. Hey id rather get 25 dollars back from 100 then nothing ..ya kno? This way vendors can still require buyers to FE because I know thats a big issue with alot of vendors otherwise it has to just be escrow 100% of the time...theres no other way.
100% AGREE!!
RxKing
-
Theres only one downside I can see to implementing this type of system and thats....if DPR chooses to pull a scam it would be the biggest freaking scam online drug dealing has ever seen. Imagine how many deposits floating in escrow + buyers funds floating in escrow he could walk away with...it would be insane. Other than that possibility I say we petition for something like this on SR it will benifit everyone in the long run and make SR a much more prestigious place.
Exactly what I was about to say. The same thing was suggested elsewhere. DPR is NOT a saint. if SumYunGai or tony76 or whoever can go scam, so can DPR. It's fool hardy to think otherwise and that $1,000 deposit is crazy imho.
As I said in the other thread, the problems facing SR right now around FE cannot be solved by asking vendors alone to do something. This is a collective problem and both buyers and sellers need to contribute to solve it. "Vendors should do x, vendors should do y" without any reciprocal action from buyers is worthless because vendors will just refuse. We have legitimate grievances as well. Right now I have 10 orders that are "in transit" yet I know for a fact they got their items. Some of the items are digital downloads delivered the same day! Buyer scam attempts are also common (and having a DCN is not a panacea, in some countries a significant amount id charged for this, in some countries DNC isn't available for some international destinations, in my country if you use DCN, the product has to be signed for - this spooks many buyers so I cannot use it)
@RxKing
With all due respect, you have no idea what the individual circumstances of a vendor are and whether or not that $1,000 "deposit" is worth it. It is sure as hell not worth it for Steroid vendors because they don't move that much volume here. I'm sure there are a myriad of other vending scenarios where it doesn't make sense. And, SR is not an angel, he can go scam too. If I can't completely trust once reputable vendors who've gone scam, why should I trust DPR?
-
Theres only one downside I can see to implementing this type of system and thats....if DPR chooses to pull a scam it would be the biggest freaking scam online drug dealing has ever seen. Imagine how many deposits floating in escrow + buyers funds floating in escrow he could walk away with...it would be insane. Other than that possibility I say we petition for something like this on SR it will benifit everyone in the long run and make SR a much more prestigious place.
If that were going to happen it would have been over 4/20 weekend. I guarantee there were high six figures or even low seven figures hanging around the site. The last major sale was the Anniversary sale and I started a thread specifically saying that if DPR could resist the temptation to walk with a few hundred grand we should all be messaging him and telling him he's fucking brilliant. This goes 5x for the 4/20 sale.
The force is strong in that one. It's rare you find such moral fiber in ANY human being, let alone someone involved in the black market. If you have a sec, drop by and thank him for not shutting it down and walking with essentially a free winning lotto ticket two weeks ago. Rare are the men who could resist such a siren call...