Silk Road forums
Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: MacMan on December 11, 2011, 01:05 am
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Idk im having some problems with buyers that i think are maybe trying to scam me and i have no idea how to deal with it. Obviously established buyers are not the problem, but new buyers are.
Cons:
-Buyer has no (or very few less then 4) previous transactions to prove he is legit
-threatening to give bad feedback
-threatening to trash u in the forum
Neutral:
-its possibly buyer didnt recieve item
So my problem is, what do i do if i have a buyer saying he didnt get his package, but has basically no transactions, at most 1 or 2? What would be the best way to deal with this?
If this were a buyer with say 17 transactions, i wouldnt question it, i would reship or give a refund. But with no prior transactions, this really sketches me out and i dont have the product or $ to be handing out refunds and reships to scammers.
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If you have other users who ordered around the same time and received their order, your safest bet would be to just tell them sorry. Maybe offer much smaller refunds. Or use DCN's exclusively to solve this problem. Up to you.
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Thanks Trinitron I appreiate your response.
Im thinking for future orders i am going to use DCN, but how do i do that without bring the package up to the counter? Can i just buy them, take them home and put the dcn on the package?
The thing about saying sorry though is they will likely shit all over my feedback and drag it way down righT? And i guess thats what im really worried about ya know..
How much does a bad review from a newbie affect ones feedback?
Maybe small refund would be the best way to go. GRRR, i think the dude is bullshitting me though. What a dilemma!
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Depending on the price of the order, you're best bet is probably to just take the hit.
Yes, chances are he's probably bullshitting you, but without a DCN, you're basically at the mercy of the buyer.
As a new vender, you really got work extra hard for a good rating; and yes it sucks because everyone knows how vulnerable new (legit) venders are here and how desperate they are for that good feedback and consequently there are plenty of people willing to exploit you for it.
A DCN isn't the end-all of scam prevention, but it helps.
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Sorry to hear about your dilemma. I would suggest you offer a 50% refund as is common in such a situation, then if he still leaves negative feedback or trashes you in the forum just explain the buyer already was refunded. If a buyer wants to say shit about you, there is nothing to stop him, but if you are truly a reliable seller than your positive reviews will speak for themselves. Since many vendors run into scam buyers or competition leaving negative feedback occasionally most people will overlook an unhappy customer here or there... just explain to prospective customers the negative feedback was unwarranted since you already addressed the package not arriving.
I would definitely recommend using DCN for protection against people claiming their package was never delivered. I think you have to pick them up at the post office, and the package may require extra postage. You can just attach the sticker to the package and drop them off as usual, no need to go to the counter or anything.
Many sellers require early finalization for new buyers, say with fewer than 5 orders, to help prevent this type of situation as well, although it will not prevent the negative reviews and works better if the vendor is already established... Possibly you could just explicitly state that you only offer 25% refunds for new buyers and those with a history of refunds.
The customer should have calmly and considerately approached you and inquired about when the order was actually shipped, whether you would expect the package to have arrived, and how to address the problem if the package didnt arrive a few days after expected. Honestly, if the buyer just automatically started hounding you and threatening to trash your reputation on the forum without discussing the matters reasonably with you first, I would just tell them if they dont want to respect you, then they do not deserve your cooperation and a refund. I know your rep is important, but I would just let them talk shit about me rather than let them rip me off and blatantly disrespect me... I have had numerous issues and orders not arrive but never once did I just accuse the seller and threaten negative feedback outright so I really feel the person is just trying to take advantage of the situation by threatening you.
Good luck!
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if either or both of you could prove transit & delivery this would reduce doubt.
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Thanks Trinitron I appreiate your response.
Im thinking for future orders i am going to use DCN, but how do i do that without bring the package up to the counter? Can i just buy them, take them home and put the dcn on the package?
The thing about saying sorry though is they will likely shit all over my feedback and drag it way down righT? And i guess thats what im really worried about ya know..
How much does a bad review from a newbie affect ones feedback?
Maybe small refund would be the best way to go. GRRR, i think the dude is bullshitting me though. What a dilemma!
Throughly state your policy on your vendor page, if you aren't going to give refunds. State so, so buyers have the chance to know that before they buy. Therefore, for intelligent buyers (I can't say everyone on SR fits in this category unfortunately) they know the reason for the feedback, and choose to ignore it. I'm not sure how other buyers go about picking out new vendors to deal with, but I am telling you what I do from my experience as a buyer.
About the DCN's, grab a stack from the post office and drop 2 more 40cent stamps on it. You are allowed to cover DCN postage with stamps.
When I suggested just saying sorry, I didn't even think about the consequences of being left negative feedback. If you can afford it (and I can see how there would be less incentive for new and small sellers to do so, so it makes it even worse for them) that would be your best bet to keeping those who would choose to ignore you because of your seller rank/one negative feedback score buying from you.
Not sure how coherent that was or how much sense I made, only 4 hours of sleep. I'm not a vendor, but I have tried to do my research and have contemplated how the process would go for a while now. So no practical experience here, just thinking out loud. Just thought I would put that out there as well :P
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If you are a new vendor, probably the smartest thing you can do for the community's sake and your own is to offer up a discount to vets.
Basically do 10 sales or so in small amounts where you are just clearing all of your costs (product, shipping, packaging, time) and count the non-profits as investment towards higher reputation. When I first started here I sent 5 free samples to buyers who had more than 50 posts in the forums (this was back when the forusm were actually on the SR Main site, and before buyer stats).
The equilvalent today would be something like >10 completed transactions and >50 posts in the forums, and the deal is that to get the discount they have to leave a review on your methods and product in the forum topic you set up for such purposes. This continues the good SR policy of rewarding buyers who stick around and contribute, gets you feedback from the people who matter most, gets you more transactions and a higher rating, and allows the community to see what you are all about through the eyes and ears of counterparts they trust.
It doesn't have to be anything huge. I gave a way a bunch of 1/8ths. And look at me now! (I'm one of the old sellers now lol).
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Thanks so much you guys, i really appreciate it! I think I will start using DCN's for both mine and my customers sake. I wish i did it sooner! I just cant for the life of me imagine that the order did not make it.
But my customers are extremely important, so since there is a chance (very slim) chance it did not make it i guess i will offer some sort of refund.
But I also worry that if refund or resend who says he wont say he didnt receive it again and further extort me.
This is stressing me out! lol. I'm glad to hear i can just throw extra stamps on to pay for the DCN though, thats perfect, now i can prevent this from happening in the future:)
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If you are a new vendor, probably the smartest thing you can do for the community's sake and your own is to offer up a discount to vets.
Basically do 10 sales or so in small amounts where you are just clearing all of your costs (product, shipping, packaging, time) and count the non-profits as investment towards higher reputation. When I first started here I sent 5 free samples to buyers who had more than 50 posts in the forums (this was back when the forusm were actually on the SR Main site, and before buyer stats).
The equilvalent today would be something like >10 completed transactions and >50 posts in the forums, and the deal is that to get the discount they have to leave a review on your methods and product in the forum topic you set up for such purposes. This continues the good SR policy of rewarding buyers who stick around and contribute, gets you feedback from the people who matter most, gets you more transactions and a higher rating, and allows the community to see what you are all about through the eyes and ears of counterparts they trust.
It doesn't have to be anything huge. I gave a way a bunch of 1/8ths. And look at me now! (I'm one of the old sellers now lol).
i like - very good simple advise.
:D
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I would not recommend offering this buyer you are concerned is scamming you a re-ship. You are correct he may just continue to try to scam you by saying it also did not arrive etc. If you offer a refund through the resolution center, then SR can prove that you have already acknowledged the problem and have no further obligation.
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Refunds > reships (even partial refunds)
You have to remember that customs and USPS itself are only part of the issue. The individual mail deliverers are more of a concern for me than LE. Having known several, they're just as dirty as the UPS and Fedex goons. If they catch goodies coming through once, they'll be more apt to recognize the same type package coming through again and grab it.
That being said, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not after you. I've only made a couple orders so far myself, but the amount of bullshit I experienced even getting to this point as a buyer makes me cringe to even think of the crap sellers have to put up with. At least the shady sellers had to pay for the privilege. Buyers can just make more and more member accounts for free to continue being trolls so I'd expect there to be a lot more of them. Just use your best judgment and life experience to do what you feel is right. Good buyers know shipping problems are beyond your control and should be willing to be patient if it takes a little longer than normal. If the person is on your ass like white on rice complaining about non delivery in an unreasonably short amount of time that's usually a tell. It also would make me paranoid because we all know some drug dealers who operate on BPT, and if they're willing to be hours late in real life, what's a few extra days with waiting on the mail thrown in? Nothing really unless you're a LE in a hurry :)
Also, I think it would be nice to be able to read our own feedback left by sellers. If someone dinged your buyer rep, you should be able to see it in order to fix it or avoid that seller in the future. As it is now, they could be leaving anything there for all we know. Not a good thing if a LEO was to have access to a seller account and started trying to troll buyers.
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Refunds > reships (even partial refunds)
You have to remember that customs and USPS itself are only part of the issue. The individual mail deliverers are more of a concern for me than LE. Having known several, they're just as dirty as the UPS and Fedex goons. If they catch goodies coming through once, they'll be more apt to recognize the same type package coming through again and grab it.
That being said, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not after you. I've only made a couple orders so far myself, but the amount of bullshit I experienced even getting to this point as a buyer makes me cringe to even think of the crap sellers have to put up with. At least the shady sellers had to pay for the privilege. Buyers can just make more and more member accounts for free to continue being trolls so I'd expect there to be a lot more of them. Just use your best judgment and life experience to do what you feel is right. Good buyers know shipping problems are beyond your control and should be willing to be patient if it takes a little longer than normal. If the person is on your ass like white on rice complaining about non delivery in an unreasonably short amount of time that's usually a tell. It also would make me paranoid because we all know some drug dealers who operate on BPT, and if they're willing to be hours late in real life, what's a few extra days with waiting on the mail thrown in? Nothing really unless you're a LE in a hurry :)
Also, I think it would be nice to be able to read our own feedback left by sellers. If someone dinged your buyer rep, you should be able to see it in order to fix it or avoid that seller in the future. As it is now, they could be leaving anything there for all we know. Not a good thing if a LEO was to have access to a seller account and started trying to troll buyers.
+1