Silk Road forums

Market => Rumor mill => Topic started by: Holland_SR on December 09, 2011, 04:50 pm

Title: Weed by 'Holland' , NO MORE ESCROW
Post by: Holland_SR on December 09, 2011, 04:50 pm
Due to the number of small time scammers that put in fake non-arrival claims, we have decided to stop using the escrow. It is simply taking too much time and money to continue using it.

So ALL orders need to be finalized after we mark it 'in transit' before it will be sent. This goes for all buyer ratings, it is quite cheap to buy a high rating with cheap items. We are the number 5 seller on Silk Road and we have sent over 1000 envelopes and have a rating close to 100, you can trust us to send immediately.

We have seen a rise in claims before.  When we decided to half the refunds in case of a loss, suddenly all the 'non arrivals' disappeared  even when our business grew further. They obviously chose to scam other sellers. Now that most sellers have tightened their rules, we see them coming back... and we need to stop that.

I am very sorry, but the only alternative would be to raise prices, and even that wouldn't solve the problem. Once scammers are gone, we can be much more lenient towards the good guys with a problem. We want to keep you as a customer.

Much of our business these days goes outside of escrow anyway, either with direct BTC payments or in Ukash.  So we don't expect much difference in turnover. But we do want to use the listings and pay our dues to SR, a good running site is important.

Hope I explained it well enough, FREE 10g Amnesia Haze for the last one to reply here before I get back on the forum (in 24 hours or so..)

; )
Holland

<< TOO LATE, WE GOT A WINNER >>
Title: Re: Weed by 'Holland' , NO MORE ESCROW
Post by: zerostate976 on December 09, 2011, 05:52 pm
i wish the fre 10g was to the first person!! I think your decision is wise, you have established yourself as a good vendor.good luck
Title: Re: Weed by 'Holland' , NO MORE ESCROW
Post by: Sal on December 09, 2011, 06:07 pm
Will follow Holland around and text you when they log into the forums for 5 BTC.

Only kidding, though it would be awesome and make a good thriller novel.
Title: Re: Weed by 'Holland' , NO MORE ESCROW
Post by: MagicMan on December 09, 2011, 06:55 pm
Amnesia haze fan reporting in
Title: Re: Weed by 'Holland' , NO MORE ESCROW
Post by: Paperchasing on December 09, 2011, 08:46 pm
Wow, this will be an interesting experiment. if this works for you many top vendors will likely follow the trail your blazing.
Title: Re: Weed by 'Holland' , NO MORE ESCROW
Post by: twon on December 09, 2011, 09:10 pm
Hopefully eliminating the scammers will lead to lower prices for the good guys.
Title: Re: Weed by 'Holland' , NO MORE ESCROW
Post by: SRTRAVLER on December 09, 2011, 09:38 pm
cant the buyers that have alrdy bought from you and finalized in the past use the escrow system. 
Title: Re: Weed by 'Holland' , NO MORE ESCROW
Post by: Brezner on December 09, 2011, 09:42 pm
Truly discouraging that so many douchebags took advantage of Holland.  He offers premium buds at fantastic prices, and I've had successful delivery to the states no prob.  Looking forward to future purchases as well, and will comply with his requests.
Title: Re: Weed by 'Holland' , NO MORE ESCROW
Post by: bsalt on December 09, 2011, 10:14 pm
We will see how this turns out. Hopefully this is not a vendor leaving SR and looking to cash out first.
Title: Re: Weed by 'Holland' , NO MORE ESCROW
Post by: Pharmville on December 09, 2011, 11:23 pm
Hi Holland,

You sent me a very nice request for some pointers when you started and I told you I would reply when my PGP was working and it never got fixed which is the only reason I haven't replied.  But this one item I'll just put here in cleartext: get together with all the other weed sellers and start a list of the people who report non-delivery, their user name, acct #, and a short description of what they said happened, plus which one of you reported it and just keep adding to it.  Pass it around every week.  You'll stop those guys quick enough.  Because once they know if they scam one of you that the door is closed to ALL of you...they won't do it.  There's not another place for this kind of selection of premium weed in the world.  They won't bite off their nose to spite their face. :)

Just IMHO.  Good luck to you young man, you seem like a very enterprising fellow and we like a fellow traveler who is trying to keep prices down in a crazy market.  We are too.  And it's hard right now, we know.  So bravo to you sir!

take care,
Alex & Ben
Title: Re: Weed by 'Holland' , NO MORE ESCROW
Post by: uniwiz on December 09, 2011, 11:31 pm
I understand, I think it's crap.
It's your bed.


Too bad it has to be that way.
Title: Re: Weed by 'Holland' , NO MORE ESCROW
Post by: uniwiz on December 09, 2011, 11:37 pm
Thinking further should I pull vendors who refuse escrow?
It's a bad trend., I don't want to encourage others since escrow is the heart of SR and why we pay a tax on items.

I know Holland is a good vendor, but I think this may be a little too much.
Title: Re: Weed by 'Holland' , NO MORE ESCROW
Post by: dutchshop on December 09, 2011, 11:43 pm
I support you all the way and have the same problem over here. ;)
Dus mij steun heb je mede verkoper.

Greets DutchShop,

Due to the number of small time scammers that put in fake non-arrival claims, we have decided to stop using the escrow. It is simply taking too much time and money to continue using it.

So ALL orders need to be finalized after we mark it 'in transit' before it will be sent. This goes for all buyer ratings, it is quite cheap to buy a high rating with cheap items. We are the number 5 seller on Silk Road and we have sent over 1000 envelopes and have a rating close to 100, you can trust us to send immediately.

We have seen a rise in claims before.  When we decided to half the refunds in case of a loss, suddenly all the 'non arrivals' disappeared  even when our business grew further. They obviously chose to scam other sellers. Now that most sellers have tightened their rules, we see them coming back... and we need to stop that.

I am very sorry, but the only alternative would be to raise prices, and even that wouldn't solve the problem. Once scammers are gone, we can be much more lenient towards the good guys with a problem. We want to keep you as a customer.

Much of our business these days goes outside of escrow anyway, either with direct BTC payments or in Ukash.  So we don't expect much difference in turnover. But we do want to use the listings and pay our dues to SR, a good running site is important.

Hope I explained it well enough, FREE 10g Amnesia Haze for the last one to reply here before I get back on the forum (in 24 hours or so..)

; )
Holland
Title: Re: Weed by 'Holland' , NO MORE ESCROW
Post by: wowzers on December 10, 2011, 12:09 am
I've bought from you before and your bud is lovely and seriously good value for money, much cheaper than the deals-on-wheels in my town.
I honestly can't understand why people would scam, geese and golden eggs come to mind. It'd be a shame if more good sellers abandon the escrow system. I expect as SR grows in size and popularity, scamming will increase as people lose that 'community trust' which I feel we still have.
Maybe some sort of 'premium buyers club' for people with say over 20 transactions of 10BTC might help things?
Title: Re: Weed by 'Holland' , NO MORE ESCROW
Post by: hajielid on December 10, 2011, 12:30 am
Maybe some sort of 'premium buyers club' for people with say over 20 transactions of 10BTC might help things?

Could be a good idea, but at the end of the day anyone can turn scammer at the drop of a hat. It would help vendors however if this was implemented over SR as a whole. I can understand vendors wanting to move to out of escrow, but at the same time as this becomes more prevalent buyers loose the protection they once had. Catch 22...
Title: Re: Weed by 'Holland' , NO MORE ESCROW
Post by: AverageGatsby on December 10, 2011, 01:51 am
I don't see all reputable vendors refusing escrow, there will be  some who accept and some who don't.

As a consumer on SR, you can choose either. I personally prefer escrow as a buyer, but can see how it would be annoying from the seller side.

It's Holland's right to revise his business model to minimize headaches, ultimately the SR market will decide if it works out.
Title: Re: Weed by 'Holland' , NO MORE ESCROW
Post by: Bumbaclot on December 10, 2011, 02:43 am
I'm guessing using tracking for proof of delivery is too time consuming/unsecure. I wouldn't be able to enjoy smoking the weed that I scammed off someone - it would be a pretty guilty high.
Title: Re: Weed by 'Holland' , NO MORE ESCROW
Post by: anarcho47 on December 10, 2011, 03:20 am
It's bad policy for a seller to refuse escrow altogether.  That defeats one of the main purposes of SR, and eliminates its differentiating feature from other illicits venues.

And, yes, as another poster previously mentioned, once this leash is off there is nothing to stop a seller from taking orders for 2-3 weeks then packing up shop and rolling off with the winnings.  I'm not saying it's likely in this situation, but there's nothing to keep him or her grounded to the site, and the temptation can be too great for certain types (SYG comes to mind here).

The proper, courteous, and buyer-respectful way of doing this is to offer options to buyers.  I never refuse an escrow buy from a customer who passes my minimum transaction criteria.  That is a staple element of SR.  But, if customers feel my reputation warrants it, I do reward customers who decide to take the OOE option with discounts and free shipipng.  The elimination of potential scamming, plus being able to roll my float back over much quicker, makes it worthwhile for me to give a discount for customers wanting to take thie route.  At this point, probably 75% of my business is out of escrow, and I have and will resend if one of my regular customers or trusted members of the community tells me something failed to arrive OOE.  (only 3 instances since I started here, and 2 were caught up in the postal strike back in July - so sellers that aren't getting product there are either shipping very poorly or not instructing their buyers on proper receiving protocols to mitigate risk).  You can verify this right on my forum topic straight from my customers.

It's a bad call to force early finalization.  I definitely tip my hat to your selling presence here on SR and success thus far, but I am 100% against you making this a policy.

Title: Re: Weed by 'Holland' , NO MORE ESCROW
Post by: jackstraw on December 10, 2011, 05:12 am
Holland burst onto the scene and through hard work, quality product and yes through ESCROW you've become a top 10 vendor on SR.   I hate to see you stop using escrow across the board.  I considered the direct btc with you but it didn't seem worth the risk for only a 5 percent discount so I just stayed in escrow. 

I would have thought that with everything now being shipped from outside the NL that you would have had more success.  So how will you know when the scammers are gone?   
I think you're a great vendor and am happy you are here but wish you would consider other alternatives.  Just my opinion.  Can't wait to try your AH either way. 
 :P
Title: Re: Weed by 'Holland' , NO MORE ESCROW
Post by: Bob Arctor on December 10, 2011, 02:14 pm
First SwaziBudBud888 now you..:( Scumbags always ruin nice things for the rest of us. Maybe Pharmville's suggestion would work?

Either way, best of luck.

Bob
Title: Re: Weed by 'Holland' , NO MORE ESCROW
Post by: bsalt on December 10, 2011, 02:22 pm
SO how will you judge who is being honest or not? Or are you no longer going to issue any reships or refunds period?
Title: Re: Weed by 'Holland' , NO MORE ESCROW
Post by: twon on December 10, 2011, 02:50 pm
I'll have to be honest, I was going to buy some power plant, but this makes it less likely.  I have over 30 successful transactions.
Title: Re: Weed by 'Holland' , NO MORE ESCROW
Post by: watertiger on December 10, 2011, 03:10 pm
SR promotes the escrow system as an integral part of this marketplace, not just as an optional feature that sellers are allowed to go around as they please. At least in the Buyers Guide (I've never looked at what it takes to be a seller here), the site suggests escrow is absolutely key to the process:

"NEVER go around the escrow and pay a vendor directly. We will be totally unable to protect you in this event and the vendor will have much less motivation to serve you well. People HAVE been scammed this way. If a seller requests that you pay them directly, please let us know so we can address the situation."

Given this kind of absolute instruction to buyers, I don't see how SR can let Holland (or anyone else) list as a seller but refuse absolutely to let buyers use the escrow process.

 
Title: Re: Weed by 'Holland' , NO MORE ESCROW
Post by: eras1059 on December 10, 2011, 04:33 pm
It sucks that you have to go down this route, Holland, but I know that there are people out there that do take the piss and I know you wouldn't do this if you didn't have to. It's these kinds of people that make it harder to trust potentially trustworthy people.

Unfortunately the postal service seems to dislike me at the moment and I'm not sure where my order is in the postal system right now but I know that it's not Holland's fault. I'm sure I've got a 100% transaction rating on my SR account but I can't help but feeling slightly bad that my item hasn't turned up as I'm sure that's not what he needs right now amidst all the scammers pulling what is genuinely happening to me.

I think Silk Road is based on a lot of trust, more so with the customers, but there are people out there who would scam everyone on here forever if they could get away with it. As Holland has a very high rating, however, I can't see this affecting his business too much... I'm sure he'd still help people after they have paid if there ever was a problem.

Hope things pick up for you!  :)
Title: Re: Weed by 'Holland' , NO MORE ESCROW
Post by: edballs on December 10, 2011, 04:58 pm
frustrating for new users, but I can totally understand why.

This escrow system is pretty good for what it is, but that's fairly limited.

There is still a lot of trust involved on both sides of a transaction, and I think that the only real way to gauge that is by building a relationship of some sort, over time.

The feedback system allow people to share that building of trust aspect with other buyers and vendors. But it is still trust at the end of the day - nothing is certain in this game.

Title: Re: Weed by 'Holland' , NO MORE ESCROW
Post by: twon on December 10, 2011, 05:13 pm
maybe there should be a review system for buyers, rated by avg. purchase amount, and number of transactions.
Title: Re: Weed by 'Holland' , NO MORE ESCROW
Post by: Paperchasing on December 10, 2011, 05:54 pm
wow twon and watertiger are great customers too...  you missin out if you dont sell to them.  Ya know Holland, this would not be a problem at all for you if you had stuck to what we had negotiated and agreed upon...  I would have paid you up front like I do my other international partners and it would have been me dealing with the escrow for distributing your weed.   Just sayin' bro.
Title: Re: Weed by 'Holland' , NO MORE ESCROW
Post by: wowzers on December 10, 2011, 06:57 pm
just replying. it's been about 24 hours, it's saturday night, I have no money to buy pot this week and I'm bored as fuck so I thought I may as well be cheeky and check back here!  ;D
Title: Re: Weed by 'Holland' , NO MORE ESCROW
Post by: scamtest on December 10, 2011, 07:40 pm
I've ordered from Holland in the past and he proved himself a good, reliable vendor.  That said, this worries me.  It really does sound like someone trying to cash in before they do a bunk, I'm not saying that's what you're doing Holland, just that it sounds like it. Coupled with the fact that you've been experiencing problems with your shipping, delays and the like, it just looks bad.

I personally never go OOE, it's not that I think everyone is out to rip me, you just never know. Look at SYG, that one shocked everyone.
Title: Re: Weed by 'Holland' , NO MORE ESCROW
Post by: twon on December 10, 2011, 08:22 pm
I've ordered from Holland in the past and he proved himself a good, reliable vendor.  That said, this worries me.  It really does sound like someone trying to cash in before they do a bunk, I'm not saying that's what you're doing Holland, just that it sounds like it. Coupled with the fact that you've been experiencing problems with your shipping, delays and the like, it just looks bad.

I personally never go OOE, it's not that I think everyone is out to rip me, you just never know. Look at SYG, that one shocked everyone.



I'm right now in the middle of my first ooe deals, but they are with well reviewed sellers and it was my choice to go ooe. I may still buy powerplant, but at most it's going to be 10g.
Title: Re: Weed by 'Holland' , NO MORE ESCROW
Post by: doobiebros on December 10, 2011, 08:52 pm
I have to reiterate again, that my only failed delivery was from holland.  I have ordered from south africa, nordic countries and etc without any packages not making it to the states.  The only package that did not was hollands. 

I would suggest to holland that as paperchasing has mentioned, ship bulk to paperchasing and let him unload it in the states.  Shipping from amsterdam is such a huge flag that many packages are intercepted.

Title: Re: Weed by 'Holland' , NO MORE ESCROW
Post by: wowzers on December 10, 2011, 08:55 pm
He doesn't ship from NL, or at least my last order came from a nearby EU member.
Title: Re: Weed by 'Holland' , NO MORE ESCROW
Post by: Holland_SR on December 10, 2011, 09:03 pm
And the winner is Wowzers!

I have no problem with sending. I can see the difference in success rate with regular buyers and newcomers. It is pretty clear that with regular buyers everything arrives as normal. Sending from Belgium, only chocolate comes from Belgium ; )

And the number of scammers isn' t that big yet compared to turnover, but it tends to grow rapidly. Almost every feedback you see on Silk Road that says ' didn't arrive, got 100% refund'  is a scammer. It is like they signal easy targets to each other that way.

And no I am not leaving Silk Road, actually working on expanding into other varieties. But to do that I need to clean up ship so I don't drown in work with the site. They don't grow in 10g bags you know...

I dont suggest other sellers to work out of escrow, it is hard to start up without it. But I think I have earned my reputation the hard way, nobody will doubt that an order goes out of the door within a day, two at most. And the very best quality you will find. And when there is a problem, I solve it.

Cheers, will contact wowzers.
Title: Re: Weed by 'Holland' , NO MORE ESCROW
Post by: wowzers on December 10, 2011, 09:16 pm
Seriously?! Thank you so much, you've made what has been a really shit week for me much much better!  ;D
hero.
Title: Re: Weed by 'Holland' , NO MORE ESCROW
Post by: Holland_SR on December 10, 2011, 09:20 pm
just send me your address Wowzers..
Title: Re: Weed by 'Holland' , NO MORE ESCROW
Post by: wowzers on December 10, 2011, 09:23 pm
done