Silk Road forums
Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: Dread Pirate Roberts on August 23, 2011, 04:17 am
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Hey gang,
We've just put in a new feature that we hope will give sellers much more protection from dishonest buyers. By and large, the people that come here to make purchases are honest and fair, but as with most things, we have to focus our attention on the few that would take advantage of the system. With that in mind, sellers now have the ability to view some limited statistics about the people who want to do business with them, so they can better judge who they are willing to work with. We only track and display the most essential metrics that will help our sellers in their choices while not revealing too much about our buyers, for whom secrecy is so important. For more info, take a look at the buyer's and seller's guides.
If this is insufficient to deter dishonest buyers, we will look into other possible measures.
Best regards,
Silk Road staff
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I fucking love you.
Thanks for making our lives so much better.
<3 LTTM
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I am, once again, unbelievably impressed with your responsiveness to the needs and wants of your user community.
As a seller, I thank you. As a buyer, I give you a feedback score of 5/5 would never want to work with another drug forum ever again. Perfect!
Ben and I are just thrilled to be here doing business and being part of the best pro-drug community on the web.
May the Silk Road live long and prosper! :D
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Come on guys just say it.
SR I want to suck your dick.
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lol ^^^
perfect.. love you long time SR. :-*
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Love the post/signature combo envious haha.
Thanks a lot SR, you freakin' rock. *fistbump*
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I like this idea, but I think it should go both ways. I don't see why we couldn't see how many times a vendor has had to refund coins and such we we know where to place our trust.
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a scamming vendor will not refund coins ::)
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A buyer who has been a member of Silk Road for a while, has many purchases, and doesn't have a high refund or auto-finalize rate is a great buyer and most likely deserves your trust.
This is not perfect. Auto-finalizing can occur whenever the buyer has not received his item, whether it's because of customs or scamming seller. Not very fair. I can see sellers wanting to deal only with buyers who have 0% auto-finalize rate, just like a buyer would perhaps only want to deal with sellers who are 100%.
Does the auto-finalize rate considers truly not arrived items ? Mmmh.
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As a buyer who uses a new ID every 3-4 months to protect myself, but has good stats throughout, is it possible to combine the stats from my previous account(s) and keep merging them into future accounts(s)? If so, instructions on how to do it and what is needed to verify account ownership please?
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Very cool. This is a great addition for the sellers. Should mostly help the honest buyers as well(unless someone gets very unlucky). I checked my buyer stats and they are perfect as they should be!
Take care,
fattysquirrel
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thanks, i've been waiting for this feature. i have maybe one more idea - maybe a private forum for sellers to share shipping information about buyers who have cancelled / or said that their items never arrived.
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Thanks SR!
Keep up the good work boys. ;)
peace
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First let me say that I think the buyer stats is a great addition to SR, as I stated in a short post earlier in the thread. However, a possible negative for new sellers came to mind. Personally, when it comes to my money, I'm not very "adventurous" to begin with. What I mean is, I'm not very likely to place an order with a new seller with zero or very few transactions to begin with. But now with the buyer feedback system I'll probably be even less likely to place an order with a new seller in fear of damaging my buyer stats. I would think most reasonable vendors would keep in mind that "shit" does happen time to time and not freak out if there is 1 or 2 refunds in someones stats.
How do other buyers feel about this? Would the new buyer stats addition affect your willingness to purchase from a new vendor on SR?
What about sellers, how much stock are you going to put into the buyer stats? Will you likely cancel orders with just a few refunds, how many refunds to transactions percentage wise would make you think twice about dealing with a buyer?
Take care,
fattysquirrel
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What a lovely turn. The man got it all wrong =] http://ianxz6zefk72ulzz.onion/index.php/silkroad/item/7268
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Silk Road - This is certainly a step forward for sellers on this site, but I think we need a similar step forward for buyers.
As an example of a problem that needs to be solved, on 2/5 transactions so far on this website, I have had highly highly ranked 5-star vendors leave an order processing for > 6 days, even after contacting them, all while watching them fulfill other orders both in feedback and on the forum. In both of these situations I canceled the order.
IMO, the feedback system isn't cutting it to measure vendor quality. It seems like as long as an order arrives, people are strongly goaded into giving a vendor 5 stars. I see this all the time on the forums and the site - people say stuff like "There is absolutely no reason not to give a 5 star review." This really hurts the ability to separate between great sellers and good sellers.
If vendors are going to be able to discriminate based on these statistics, I would like to be able to see vendor statistics (like the number of times buyers have canceled on them / requested resolution / etc) in order to prevent myself from ordering from subpar vendors in the future.
Thanks, and really appreciate the work you're putting into this site.
Edit - P.S. - I was also wondering if the number of times you've canceled orders is one of the statistics that sellers can see? In that case, it makes me even more upset to know that I will be punished for dealing with those sellers in the past.
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Silk Road - This is certainly a step forward for sellers on this site, but I think we need a similar step forward for buyers.
As an example of a problem that needs to be solved, on 2/5 transactions so far on this website, I have had highly highly ranked 5-star vendors leave an order processing for > 6 days, even after contacting them, all while watching them fulfill other orders both in feedback and on the forum. In both of these situations I canceled the order.
IMO, the feedback system isn't cutting it to measure vendor quality. It seems like as long as an order arrives, people are strongly goaded into giving a vendor 5 stars. I see this all the time on the forums and the site - people say stuff like "There is absolutely no reason not to give a 5 star review." This really hurts the ability to separate between great sellers and good sellers.
If vendors are going to be able to discriminate based on these statistics, I would like to be able to see vendor statistics (like the number of times buyers have canceled on them / requested resolution / etc) in order to prevent myself from ordering from subpar vendors in the future.
Thanks, and really appreciate the work you're putting into this site.
Edit - P.S. - I was also wondering if the number of times you've canceled orders is one of the statistics that sellers can see? In that case, it makes me even more upset to know that I will be punished for dealing with those sellers in the past.
Very well said, I agree completely. Especially about people treating the 5/5 as almost mandatory if you receive your order. There are many more aspects of a transaction than just getting the item you purchased. Luckily I haven't dealt with a vendor yet that I didn't feel deserved at LEAST a 5/5.
Now I know SR is totally unique with the type of products being sold and all. But, if you think about it, if you placed an order for anything legitimate with amazon, walmart, ect would you still give a perfect rating to the company just because they shipped you your item? I would assume and hope that no one would. Just receiving the item you paid for should be the bare minimum a vendor has to do. Just because we are dealing with generally illegal merchandise doesn't mean that this should be any different, at least IMO.
In regards to your Edit/P.S. - I don't think canceling an order is seen by a vendor. I had a vendor that went AWOL after I placed an order. He hadn't been to SR in over 2 days, thus all his listings were taken down and I was able to cancel my order, which I did since I didn't want my coins tied up with an AWOL vendor. On a side note this particular vendor had a personal issue that came up which is totally understandable. But anyway, I checked my buyer stats (you can do this by clicking on your account, and then click on "Purchasing stats" on the right side underneath "View feedback") and it was not listed in any fashion. I believe the Purchasing stats that you can view in your account is the same exact stats that the vendors will see when you place an order with them. I could be wrong, and someone please correct me if the stats vary in any way.
Take care,
fattysquirre
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As I saw on my unconfirmed shipping orders I think that vendors see exact stats as buyers.
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I LOVE the idea. I haven't posted in a long while, just coming in and lurking every now and then (busy IRL, etc). I figure a seller has two ways to know you: your posts and your stats. Not everyone has the time to post all the time, so I like that a seller can look at some info about me to know I'm legit. Thanks again SR for another great improvement on the site!
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Congrats SR, You and your staff never cease to amaze me with this site. This a perfect solution for a buyer like me for my vendors. I also agree that we as buyers should have vendor stats along with the feedback profile. I made 11 transactions and a couple pending since joining a month ago and left 5 for 5 for all except 1 who advertised the brand name item and sent a foreign generic. I still gave him a 3 for 5 for shipping and packaging. I would not had to leave a poor feedback if there were more stats on the vendors because I would not have bothered to order in the first place. When you see a time stamp photo with the name brand and it's listed as the name brand and then receive a pakistani or chinese knockoff and then it's defended as just as good, doesn't cut it with me. I would rather avoid the purchase all together. Also I avoid international purchases, it's just my quirk, but that may change. I prefer buying within my country to help out this dismal economy.When the listing states ships from OZ to worldwide, then I have to take time out to contact the vendor to see if they ship from where I'm at. Sometimes I don't get a responce for days when the vendor is AWOL. I think the ship from - ship to listing should be accurate. Other than those 2 points this site continues to be first rate. Bikerbum
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I LOVE the idea. I haven't posted in a long while, just coming in and lurking every now and then (busy IRL, etc). I figure a seller has two ways to know you: your posts and your stats. Not everyone has the time to post all the time, so I like that a seller can look at some info about me to know I'm legit. Thanks again SR for another great improvement on the site!
LOL says the guy with perfect stats :)
You are the kind of buyer I will be happy to serve over and over again.
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@anarcho47 - the funny thing is that as much as I praise stats, your forum posts are what make me order from you over some vendors selling similar stuff at similar prices.... i like your politics and your business ethos.
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Glad to hear it! Sadly only about 10% of the userbase on SR is registered on the forums (mind you this is not accounting for many multiple buyer accounts, so who really knows). I wish we had more of them over here because there are a lot of them who could have avoided guys like goldismoney by just coming here ages ago.
I still say SR needs to have a big fat notification that says "Register for the Forums - Do It Or We Will Divide By Zero!"
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are sellers actually going to use these stats for much? because if they are buyers are going to have to be even more scared of new sellers because they will fuck up a buyers stats if they dont come through. right now my stats are good for some reason but they shouldnt be with failed buys in the O section and i had 1 autofinalize from postal strike. my stats should be pretty shitty. i really dont want to get to a point where i have to get a new account just from failed buys.
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That's great news. You're doing a fine job with the site, Silk Road.
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Okay I'm repeating what I've written in another thread about what should be included in buyer reviews.
When it comes down to it, what you're expecting a buyer to do when he/she is giving/taking away stars based on "quality" is, in fact, "opinion". Who is to say who has a better idea of chronic versus another?
I think the forum is the PERFECT place for people to comment on the QUALITY of the seller's product versus taking away 1 or 2 stars because their "product" wasn't up to their "par".
Here's how I determine if I give a 5/5.
1) Did the seller ship it out within a few days of my "add to cart?" and note the "in transit"?
2) Did the seller respond to any questions I may have had in a "timely" manner (24 hours or less)?
3) Did the product arrive in a realistic time-frame based on the 411 they offer on the listing?
4) Was it packaged discreetly and fit in with the rest of my mail?
5) Was it what I asked for? (Not was it the best damned shit I've ever had, but did it do the job??).
It's the BUYERS job to go to the forums and consider whom he/she should buy on based on extensive reviews. We're not holding kiddy hands here. This is kindergarten. This isn't E-bay. There are scammers on here anyway, leaving their own feedback. So, I myself, do not rely on feedback on the seller's profile. I look to the forums, that involve more extensive detail.
If I want to give details on preference of quality, or the extent of which I explain the quality of the product, I do so in the appropriate sections of the forum. Actually, FIRST, I let the seller know how I feel about it. In fact, I haven't talked trash except for a scammer.
Considering the current process of the seller rating format, it's not right to act like an E-bay dickhead and give them 2/5 stars because YOUR opinion of what you think the quality of product should be, isn't what it is.
And for that matter, I am still of the opinion that good buyers like myself, should be rated. That way the more experienced and veteran sellers can maintain relationships with buyers who know the deal. I immediately finalize if I trust the seller. I am discreet. I am kind. I give a few suggestions if necessary. And I communicate if necessary. Shit, someone send me 5 btc for being such a good HappyTree!
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I had to chuckle when I first logged onto SR today. I read the most recent feedback listed on the front page like I usually do and I see the following feedback for a quarter oz of marijuana:
5 of 5 six gram quarter, good herb
So this buyer was shorted roughly 15% of the product he purchased and he gives a 5/5? Now there could be multiple reasons for this seemingly crazy feedback, although when taken at face value it certainly is strait crazy IMO. Perhaps it's a simple typo? But being that the buyer actually spelled out the word "six" and didn't use a "6", I find that highly unlikely. Maybe the buyer is just unaware of how much a quarter oz actually weighs, which is certainly possible. However again I find it unlikely that a person using the service of SR would not be aware of this. The buyer also may not be confident he properly weighed the product as well, and didn't want to dock the seller in case he did make a mistake. Clearly this is all just speculation on my part.
If it actually is exactly what it says, and the buyer gave a perfect rating regardless of being shorted roughly 15% I'm a bit dumbfounded. On a side note, it was for a vendor that is highly rated with many transactions, so personally I would dismiss something odd like this myself. I just thought it was interesting and pertained to the subject at hand.
Take care,
fattysquirrel
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I like this idea a lot as I'm proud of the way I conduct my transactions. Only thing is I usually only use the same 3-4 vendors and they would know they have a fair idea of my rep. It will however assist both buyer and seller when new to each other.
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are sellers able to see buyer stats for orders that were placed/shipped before this was implemented?
it would be nice to see them on already sent orders, just to get an idea of what might happen with them
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are sellers able to see buyer stats for orders that were placed/shipped before this was implemented?
it would be nice to see them on already sent orders, just to get an idea of what might happen with them
Yes, you can see prior transactions. I have some buyers that had over 20 transactions completed and showing in stats the day this was implemented.
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what I meant was, I have 8 orders that I have already shipped before this system was implemented, and would like to see the buyer stats on those customers, but on the order screen, all I see is tx#, item, qty, buyer, auto finalize, cancel, reason.....but no buyer stats. I just want to check how likely those orders are to go to auto finalize or resolution...not that there is anything I can do about it now, but with the $2 drop in bitcoin today, I am worried what the future will bring. almost too nerve racking to sell using bitcoin and escrow with 18 days to auto finalize.
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could we know what exactly is shown? i try to be the best buyer i can and i want my stats to reflect that.
for example auto finalize after 18 days, i live is australia, only one package has come inside those 18 days, if i know those are gona count negatively i will finalize early..
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Brock, I wouldn't finalize early just because you're in Australia. Especially living in a different country, the chances of your package being intercepted is far greater. I would just PM your seller that you live there, and generally it takes 18 days for packages to arrive. That being said, I have heard of some packages from US getting to Australia in 5 days, so I would see if there's an option for International Express shipping.
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Considering the current process of the seller rating format, it's not right to act like an E-bay dickhead and give them 2/5 stars because YOUR opinion of what you think the quality of product should be, isn't what it is.
It is right. If you have a good product, one asshole won't screw your rating. People will look and see that if 6 people out of ten thinks your stuff is junk, chances are it is just ok, 8 out of ten it's shit. If people consistently give you a high score, then you have good stuff... because YOUR opinion of what you think the quality of a product should be, may not be what it is. Just because you're a seller, doesn't mean you know the difference between a good product and a bad one. Maybe you live in a hood where the weed has always sucked... your current batch may be the best you've ever smoked, but the guys in Cali are smoking stuff twice as strong.
THAT is why we need to actually rate vendors... otherwise, why not just have a simple binary rating. 0 they suck, 1 they don't.
The FIVE star system is there for a reason, and the more people actually use it, the more reliable it will be. I would order from a vendor that had a rating as low as a 3/5, especially if I check the ratings to see WHY they had a 3/5 and note it's just shipping-time issues because they're shipping internationally, or had a personal issue for a short duration.
Most vendors don't do SR as their only gig, I would imagine. So I don't hit refresh every 30 seconds waiting for a PM response either. I give them a couple days.
The crappy part about being a buyer in all this, is how long it takes to convert cash into bitcoins. It's happened to me twice out of three transactions, where I bought bitcoins, and by the time the bank sent the money to the exchange, the price dropped, thereby increasing the cost of the item I want, and reducing the amount I can afford. My last transaction at least went the other way.
I propose an addition to the rating system, both a before and after component. A pre-rating based on payment/shipping, which is what people are already using the 5-star for, and an after component. The after component would include a packaging assessment, and a product rating based on quality and quantity. The math on the rating could be an SR secret formula that protects buyers by averaging all their transactions into an actual overall seller rating.
Sure you can search the forums and read through everyone's individual reviews and trip reports... but you wouldn't HAVE to do all that work with a reliable ratings system, and the forum reviews would be able to focus more on the product instead of the seller.
Proud
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The forums are where quality and more elaborations are discussed. All of the major vendors have at least one thread started on them with multiple participants. The thread in my forum signature has posts from at least 25 unique buyers, so anybody who has never done business with me can go there - every product I offer is covered and customer satisfaction (or dissatisfaction) with the transaction from start to finish is vented there. Even a separate rating for quality is going to have to be subdivided and customized for each product category. I think the forums are the best bet because people are allowed to vent to the good and bad.
Feedback is fine, and as for product quality it's a subjective thing (although I'm from Canada and our weed makes Amsterdam giggle like a 12-year-old schoolgirl ;). If you got sticks and stems, put that up there. If you got nice bud, put that up there. Pics help from a seller side, let customers know what they are buying.
For funding your BTC account. If you buy stuff online more than just BTC and SR purchases, get a Liberty Reserve account. You can transfer to paypal. You can fund most BTC exchangers with it, it's very fast, and then you are only dealing with the clearing-house times in the actual BTC p2p network. Just keep a reserve of LR $ on hand.
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I dam sure love this, and Thanks