Silk Road forums
Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: Fred Flintstone on August 01, 2011, 06:05 am
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Quoted from the Silk Road Seller's Guide: "Practically speaking, there are many powerful adversaries of Silk Road and if we are to survive, we must not take them all on at once."
I feel that the sale of guns on the Silk Road is a guaranteed way to attract unwanted attention from LE and politicians. While drugs are certainly controversial, many liberal and libertarian minded people are against current drug policies and thus more tolerant. Selling illegal guns is going to lose the support of many of those liberals. Besides, it appears that illegal firearm sales account for little to no business on SR. I see little benefit in allowing their sale.
What do you think?
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I voted no for only one reason...those who currently own guns are generally white males, (some in law enforcement) who are backward and uneducated. However, I am in favor for the ex-cons, the radicals, the communists, anarchist, the oppressed, and those who suffer abuse from the dominant Anglo culture in America to possess all the gun and ammo they can get (including C4 and proper training). This is with the implicit intent to bring about change in this failed system called America.
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Nothing will get SR shut down faster than some kid shooting up his school with an illegal gun purchased on here. People are funny about things like that. If some unfortunate recreational drug user ODs, mainstream society doesn't give a shit. If 60 minutes finds out that some socially awkward kid killed off his english lit class with a gun from the internet, we are done for. If we continue to allow people to sell guns on here it is only a matter of time before this happens. Lets be smart and take action before something tragic goes down and its too late.
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Guns = Shit.
Weed 4 ever :)
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could you actually get away with shipping a handgun through the mail? everyone should have the right to bear arms. i would just be worried about buying a gun that has a body count on it / traced to a murder.
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Another intelligent gun advocate. You should really go onto the other thread mentioned above and talk some sense into your fellow gun people. I am as libertarian as the next guy about most things but the sale of guns will be the downfall of SR if we don't do something about it.
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Hah, can't be much worse than what the atf has done lastly, lot of innocent blood on their hands.
Guns don't kill people, govt's do
Vote no for guns on the road!
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If we continue to allow people to sell guns on here it is only a matter of time before this happens. Lets be smart and take action before something tragic goes down and its too late.
Please....you're worried about some kid with a gun a school! The U.S. is a warmongering nation responsible for the death of millions in just the last decade. No one is screaming about the American led genocide in Iraq, Afghanistan or Libya. War against the system, the State, the Government, will eventually lead to peace, equality, harmony and love. That means that when SR becomes the avenue for military hardware delievered to your home to the average informed schmuck...like you and me...then social change will begin to happen.
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yeah, that is why I voted 'no', fireamrs bring about peace
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Another intelligent gun advocate. You should really go onto the other thread mentioned above and talk some sense into your fellow gun people. I am as libertarian as the next guy about most things but the sale of guns will be the downfall of SR if we don't do something about it.
How exactly will it be the downfall? How exactly will they take down a .onion address?
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I don't really have a problem with the sale of guns. Just the fact that we can sell guns and not fake IDs? This is pretty absurd. Fake IDs would be much more useful to 90% of the people on this site.
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i voted yes to remove firearms.
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Another intelligent gun advocate. You should really go onto the other thread mentioned above and talk some sense into your fellow gun people. I am as libertarian as the next guy about most things but the sale of guns will be the downfall of SR if we don't do something about it.
How exactly will it be the downfall? How exactly will they take down a .onion address?
When (not if) some senator's kid or child of some other important and influential person gets shot with a gun from SR the task force assigned to investigate will see their funding, manpower and motivation increase 100x. Think about it, if some deluded domestic jihadist or some socially awkward kid opens fire in a crowded public place with a gun they bought from the internet the media and LE will have a hardon for SR and absolutely will not rest until it is taken down. We would have the DEA, ATF and Homeland Security investigating us in addition to whatever foreign governmental agencies that might get involved. Use your brain folks, just because you like guns and think that everyone should have them doesn't mean they should be sold in the same place that we buy our drugs. If some recreational drug user ODs and dies, no one gives a shit. But I am telling you when there is another columbine and the guns came from SR we are done for. As for how to take down an .onion address, there was just a CP bust http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/03/us-usa-crime-pornography-idUSTRE77259M20110803 and the perverts were likely using TOR. Why don't you go ask the cops how they did it? The technology only protects us so far. If you give the cops a good enough reason to come after you, they will.
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I voted no simply for the fact that guns don't kill people, people kill people. It's that simple, if someone really wanted to kill someone they'll find a way whether it's with a gun, an explosive, poison, or some other means they'll find a way. I truly believe that people have the right to bare arms.
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I definetally think it would be legitamate for SR to ban the sale of various items on this site, although it may be against the spirit of the site.
Removal of the sale of particular items doesn't mean that they can't be traded elsewhere on tor with Bitcoins.
However, I'm not going to vote since I don't really know enough about the risks/benefits - but I would like SR to think carefully about this issue.
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I truly believe that people have the right to bare arms.
Bare arms is one thing...I generally like the girls who bare their legs, ass, and tits.
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Everything should be available on silk except for two exceptions. Atomic devices and Kid porn. And for the latter, those guys need to be castrated and their kneecaps broken so they can cripple around for the rest of their lives and think about what they had done. Killing is too good for them. Man I hate those guys. Come to think of it I would purchase a straight razor and a pistol on silk just to take care of these guys personally and by request. Scumbags that they are. My three cents...................................... and oh yeah, Power to the People and Viva La Revolutione. Bikerbum
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Atomic devices...
I believe we all agree with you on the fuck’n creeps who purvey, sell, or deal in kiddy smut. But “Atomic devices,” what is wrong with U235? I am sitting on a bunch of BTC right now waiting for someone with the user name of “Kim Jong-il” to post an advertisement for unused nuke with instructions in Korean. That would make a hell of an afternoon....smoke some bud then light the fuse on a nuke in the middle of a large American city.
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i love firearms. selling them on sr is not a good idea.
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awww I want a gun 8)
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The point is not whether or not people should have the right to bare arms. Has anyone on here that voted no actually bought a gun here? Has ANYONE bought a gun here? I agree people should have the right to bare (or bear ;)) arms, but on a realistic note, the sale of guns will give the media ammo for shooting down SR.
I am not against people owning guns, I am against the publicity that would be associated with the sale of illegal guns. This will alienate SR from damn near every liberal out there! All this idealism talk about keeping yourself armed against the oppressors of evil America/whatever is just libertarian rhetoric that sounds like it was copy and pasted out of an extremist pamphlet.
Before you answer the question of whether you think SR should sell guns or not, try asking yourself what are the real benefits and costs to you. Try looking at it from a realistic point of view. While I have no problem with people owning guns, I don't want to see SR get anymore negative attention. I am very much a realist. As a realist, I feel that the costs of selling guns far outweighs the benefits.
(For me) The benefits of selling guns: It allows people to buy guns. Since I do not want to buy a gun, this is of little benefit to me.
(For me) The costs of selling guns: It gives the media/public more reason to hate SR and want to close it down.
We have something very good going for us here and I would hate to see it fucked up over some idealist beliefs that the right to buy guns online is important enough to risk it all.
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.... just because you like guns and think that everyone should have them doesn't mean they should be sold in the same place that we buy our drugs. If some recreational drug user ODs and dies, no one gives a shit. But I am telling you when there is another columbine and the guns came from SR we are done for. As for how to take down an .onion address, there was just a CP bust http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/03/us-usa-crime-pornography-idUSTRE77259M20110803 and the perverts were likely using TOR. Why don't you go ask the cops how they did it? The technology only protects us so far. If you give the cops a good enough reason to come after you, they will.
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Very well said Vanilla...
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Please....you're worried about some kid with a gun a school! The U.S. is a warmongering nation responsible for the death of millions in just the last decade. No one is screaming about the American led genocide in Iraq, Afghanistan or Libya. War against the system, the State, the Government, will eventually lead to peace, equality, harmony and love. That means that when SR becomes the avenue for military hardware delievered to your home to the average informed schmuck...like you and me...then social change will begin to happen.
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I believe we tried something like overthrowing warmongering governments with violence numerous times. the first was in 1776 & it created this warmongering nation. then as this nation, we have tried doing it in many other nations... we trained Osama, in case you forgot. The best example of how to truly get your way was seen when the Indian people, led by Ghandi, managed to get the British to leave India-too many other things got fucked after though. Another good example of how peace begets peace & overthrows current thinking can be seen in the civil rights movement of the 40's, 50's & 60's. Do you really believe that schools & buses would have desegregated if African Americans walked up to their principal or bus driver & shot them???
& really, more often than not, peace has a hard time leading the way to peace. there is no way violence will ever get the results you desire, someone will always want revenge.
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Has anyone on here that voted no actually bought a gun here? Has ANYONE bought a gun here?
Yes, and yes. ;)
I get where most people are coming from that want this site to be purely drugs...But at the same time I hate putting restrictions on the idea of
However, just the ability to make that kind of transaction here is why I love this site so much. Since that day I've never feared/respected the
power of the internet (more specifically SILKROAD! 8)) in general.
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Has anyone on here that voted no actually bought a gun here? Has ANYONE bought a gun here?
Yes, and yes. ;)
I get where most people are coming from that want this site to be purely drugs...But at the same time I hate putting restrictions on the original idea of
However, just the ability to make that kind of transaction here is why I love this site so much. Since that day I've never feared/respected the
power of the internet (more specifically SILKROAD! 8)) in general.
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I voted yes, don't need something else bringing more attention here--but with the announcement of allowing forged gov credentials on here, that will also generate heat....
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So, it seems that it comes down to what is valued most, the concept of legalized drugs or the concept of a completely free market.
I voted no to guns on SR, because I agree that while we may skate by as a market for drugs, if someone gets hurt from a gun sold on here I'm sure this place will be shut down faster than we can blink.
~Perv
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Argh, my post glitched... embarassing. :-[
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I originally posted in favor of selling guns on SR but I think I've changed my mind. Most things you can buy on here is intended for personal use and does not pose any inherent risk to others. Selling guns crosses that line. Guns are designed to inflict harm on others. It also causes added negative attention to this place. If someone OD's that's their issue. If someone shoots up a school with a gun purchased here, isnt SR partially responsible?
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All this idealism talk about keeping yourself armed against the oppressors of evil America/whatever is just libertarian rhetoric that sounds like it was copy and pasted out of an extremist pamphlet.
The second amendment exists to ensure the public have the right to bare arms in order to protect them from their government as well as from criminals. I don't want to get into politics but having a society where everyone owned a gun(think back to the 1700's kind of warfare) made it much less likely that the government would overstep its bounds..
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Guns are designed to inflict harm on others.
Guns, and any available weapon, should be freely sold to whoever has the means to buy. At present, SR is the avenue to make weapons freely available. All the bullshit rhetoric about the Second Amendment giving someone the right to own a gun is nonsense. Gun ownership in the U.S. is restricted mainly to white males, excluding people of color because of a legal system that specifically targets non-whites for criminal prosecution.
As Chairman Mao said, “Change comes with the barrel of a gun.” All you peaceniks must realize that passive behavior is neither real nor viable. If world peace is the goal.... destroy the United States of America.
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F*K Chairman Mao! >:(
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Jeezus H CHrist this is not about who can or cannot have guns. Give every infant a gun on his first birthday if you want just don't buy it on SR. I don't give a fuck about the 2nd amendment. People have guns, so what? The issue is not whether to allow people to have guns. Why is it so hard for you people to see that having guns on here will only serve to draw unnecessary heat and scrutiny on SR? THat's the only reason this came up. Not because of some bullshit anti-gun conspiracy. No one is coming in the night to steal your guns. Relax... We just want to be able to continue buying and selling drugs here without having a ton of angry people trying to shut us down because someone got shot with a gun bought anonymously on the internet.
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Are law enforcement really going to decide to leave us alone if guns are banned? I doubt it.
I mean, if we're going to start trying to make friends with the government, Silk Road might as well ban the sale of *anything* illegal...
We're all working on the premise that the onion is safe, and can't be traced or shut down. If this isn't the case, then none of us should really be here. If it's not secure enough for guns, it's not secure enough for drugs either!
I don't see how it would make any difference to the fate of the market - there's not much going on in the weapons section anyway. When I last looked, there wasn't even *one* complete illegal firearm on there.
But people seem quick to want to ban trading in goods they don't approve of, just like the government prohibition of drugs.
As long as there's crack heroin and meth sold on here I'm sure they will be trying as hard as they can to take us down, and trying to make them hate us less by removing the guns is like pissing on a burning building. Our continued existence should depend on security (tor, pgp, etc), not on trying to appease law enforcement and hoping they won't try too hard...
Partial freedom is not freedom - there are many categories besides drugs, and voting to start restricting things goes against the whole point of a free market.
That being said, the "guns are bad" argument is a separate debate. Personally, I hope that a time comes when people will not feel the need, or have the need, to arm themselves.
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How about invoking the fact that drugs are a lesser evil ? Guns can kill more easily than drugs...
I believe that selling guns on SR makes the site way more vulnerable. Selling drugs is more tolerable to the government, as long as it remains underground.
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SR will be doomed
As Julius Caesar so eloquently spoke after crossing the River Rubicon in northern Italy around January of 49 BC, “Alea iacta est.” That is to say, “The die has been cast,” in essence meaning that SR is here to stay, guns are here to stay, be it in the face of sleazy cops and fraudulent governments.
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Since this is a "community" and SR has show he is very responsive to what needs and wants are voiced by the community, then the poll should decide the outcome of the guns issue.
Then the outcome would be that the people get the marketplace they want and support and it provides exactly the service that *most* of the people want without any undue attention from things that *most* of the people don't want to see at SR.
I've always also thought the best argument was that, when used properly, recreational drugs kill 0% of the people but, when used properly , guns kill 100% of the people. And I'm sure one of SR's goals is NOT to kill people or assist in killing people.
But that's just me. ;)
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Man i hate moral relativism...
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Jeezus H CHrist this is not about who can or cannot have guns. Give every infant a gun on his first birthday if you want just don't buy it on SR. I don't give a fuck about the 2nd amendment. People have guns, so what? The issue is not whether to allow people to have guns. Why is it so hard for you people to see that having guns on here will only serve to draw unnecessary heat and scrutiny on SR? THat's the only reason this came up. Not because of some bullshit anti-gun conspiracy. No one is coming in the night to steal your guns. Relax... We just want to be able to continue buying and selling drugs here without having a ton of angry people trying to shut us down because someone got shot with a gun bought anonymously on the internet.
This is exactly my point. Everyone is so caught up on the right to own a gun - I don't give a shit one way or another whether you own a gun! I just give a shit if somehow a shooting or killing is tied to a gun bought on SR - that will be the end of it. Also, you think if everyone owned a gun then anything would be different? This is not the 1700s. Owning a gun will not change a damn thing. Your gun may protect you from a burglar but it sure as shit won't protect you from the government. A bunch of rhetorical nonsense.
Are law enforcement really going to decide to leave us alone if guns are banned? I doubt it.
I mean, if we're going to start trying to make friends with the government, Silk Road might as well ban the sale of *anything* illegal...
We're all working on the premise that the onion is safe, and can't be traced or shut down. If this isn't the case, then none of us should really be here. If it's not secure enough for guns, it's not secure enough for drugs either!
I don't see how it would make any difference to the fate of the market - there's not much going on in the weapons section anyway. When I last looked, there wasn't even *one* complete illegal firearm on there.
But people seem quick to want to ban trading in goods they don't approve of, just like the government prohibition of drugs.
As long as there's crack heroin and meth sold on here I'm sure they will be trying as hard as they can to take us down, and trying to make them hate us less by removing the guns is like pissing on a burning building. Our continued existence should depend on security (tor, pgp, etc), not on trying to appease law enforcement and hoping they won't try too hard...
Partial freedom is not freedom - there are many categories besides drugs, and voting to start restricting things goes against the whole point of a free market.
That being said, the "guns are bad" argument is a separate debate. Personally, I hope that a time comes when people will not feel the need, or have the need, to arm themselves.
I agree that drugs will bring heat on SR. Your argument is totally valid. That being said, the point of SR seems to be a open drug market - which is what the vast majority of SR members use it for. Sure, the sale of drugs will bring heat from law enforcement - and it already has. I do not disagree with this. My entire point is not to eliminate all things illegal, it is to limit our risk. For the same reason we wouldn't want to sell weapons of mass destruction or people's credit card numbers, we want to attract as little heat as possible.
Just look at the recent CP bust. They deserve to die a slow death, but that is aside the point. CP (like guns, drugs, and other illegal items) will attract attention from certain people who will try their hardest to put an end to it. The fewer illegal things going on, the less attention we draw to SR. Since drugs account for well over 90% of SR sales (correct me if I'm wrong) and guns account for less than 5% (again, correct me if I'm wrong) are those 5% of sales really worth the extra added risk and exposure SR will have to face? My argument is based entirely on logic, this is not a moral argument against the sale of guns.
There is no right or wrong answer and I am glad to see such strong debate over this.
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Which would sound worse to the general population if SR hit the world news: "My 16yr old son bought pot off there" or "My 16yr old son bought a 9mm off there"? Since it is they who will create the heat brought down on SR, that should be the question. I would like to SR to stay online for as long as possible.
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... I am glad to see such strong debate over this.
Yes
Man i hate moral relativism...
The is spoken from the perspective of a white male, more than likely from the United States. The essence of moral debate is through the eyes of all cultures, classes, peoples and nations. To “hate moral relativism” is to hate self.
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Guns are designed to inflict harm on others.
Guns, and any available weapon, should be freely sold to whoever has the means to buy. At present, SR is the avenue to make weapons freely available. All the bullshit rhetoric about the Second Amendment giving someone the right to own a gun is nonsense. Gun ownership in the U.S. is restricted mainly to white males, excluding people of color because of a legal system that specifically targets non-whites for criminal prosecution.
As Chairman Mao said, “Change comes with the barrel of a gun.” All you peaceniks must realize that passive behavior is neither real nor viable. If world peace is the goal.... destroy the United States of America.
Just to be clear. I am personally very pro gun rights. I do believe that anyone mentally stable has the right to bear arms. My logic behind saying remove guns is this: The people who would buy guns illegally from an anonymous website are more likely to be people that shouldn't have a gun. And probably more likely to do something stupid. And when asked where they got the gun? The answer will be Silk Road, which could fuel some kind of public outrage to shut this site down. While its true there is a moral component to the argument. I think unwanted attention is the biggest factor. "Convicted felon buys gun off SR and shuts up a 7-11, more at 11" not a headline I want to see.... "All good things must come to an end" I would like that to be later rather than sooner :). Interesting debate we got going here nonetheless...
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I think carrying guns makes it too easy to scapegoat SR for guns that were never sold on SR. Felon buys gun under the counter at local gun shop, gets arrested with it, and plausibly claims he ordered it from SR. Headline: "Accused felon bought gun on SR". I'll bet this happens more often than guns are actually sold on SR, and SR will be the talk of the guns shows.
It also seems the most likely place for LE to pose as a seller since it's worthwhile to bust buyers. Busting a dozen buyers with personal quantities of substance X is useless to LE; busting a dozen buyers of fully automatic AR-15s is a headline on page B1, and cops actually care about getting automatic weapons off the streets.
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I think carrying guns makes it too easy to scapegoat SR for guns that were never sold on SR. Felon buys gun under the counter at local gun shop, gets arrested with it, and plausibly claims he ordered it from SR. Headline: "Accused felon bought gun on SR". I'll bet this happens more often than guns are actually sold on SR, and SR will be the talk of the guns shows.
It also seems the most likely place for LE to pose as a seller since it's worthwhile to bust buyers. Busting a dozen buyers with personal quantities of substance X is useless to LE; busting a dozen buyers of fully automatic AR-15s is a headline on page B1, and cops actually care about getting automatic weapons off the streets.
First of all, that is quite a stretch assuming someone busted with an illegal weapon would say they bought it on SR. Why would they? And what does that have to do with anything anyway?
Also, it is far more likely that LE would go after sellers, like in Operation Web Tryp back in 2004 with research chemical distributors.
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@Fred: Is it really worth the risk though?
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@Fred: Is it really worth the risk though?
What are you referring to here? My stance is that guns should be removed because it IS NOT worth the risk. That has been my stance ever since I started this thread.
I enjoy debate and like playing the devil's advocate in any situation, which is why I was questioning Nef's logic.
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I think carrying guns makes it too easy to scapegoat SR for guns that were never sold on SR. Felon buys gun under the counter at local gun shop, gets arrested with it, and plausibly claims he ordered it from SR. Headline: "Accused felon bought gun on SR". I'll bet this happens more often than guns are actually sold on SR, and SR will be the talk of the guns shows.
It also seems the most likely place for LE to pose as a seller since it's worthwhile to bust buyers. Busting a dozen buyers with personal quantities of substance X is useless to LE; busting a dozen buyers of fully automatic AR-15s is a headline on page B1, and cops actually care about getting automatic weapons off the streets.
First of all, that is quite a stretch assuming someone busted with an illegal weapon would say they bought it on SR. Why would they?
When a perp is busted with an illegal weapon, one of the first LE question is, "where'd you get the gun?" To avoid implicating someone they don't want to implicate, like the local gun dealer that would put a price on their head if they ever snitched, the perp could plausibly claim they bought it through SR.
How likely is this? The gun community is pretty tight knit, with many of their own publications, blogs, and shows. As soon as word starts getting out that guns are available anonymously online, it won't be long until some savvy illegal gun dealer is coaching their buyers to claim they bought the gun online.
And what does that have to do with anything anyway?
The reason is matters is that a single instance of someone claiming to buy a gun anonymously online would be considered novel and newsworthy, bringing more heat (so to speak) on SR. And it doesn't matter if the claim is true.
Also, it is far more likely that LE would go after sellers, like in Operation Web Tryp back in 2004 with research chemical distributors.
Agreed, but as we know, sellers are fairly well protected when using SR, whereas buyers are usually trivial to identify if LE poses as a seller. In the case of illegal fully-automatic assault rifles, it would be expensive but worthwhile for LE to go after buyers because this is exactly the kind of weapon that was used in the Mumbai attacks, and I guarantee that anti-terror money would be available to fund an operation against SR. There are billions of dollars in anti-terror funds available, and those kind of resources make a number of expensive attacks plausible, like going after buyers.
That said, handguns are ubiquitous in the US, and it's likely not worth busting buyers of them. Also, anti-terror funds might not be available for handguns. My thought is that if SR desires to keep a weapons category, that the only weapons allowed be pistols.
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^ Touche! A very solid rebuttal. Seeing as we are on the same page about removing guns from SR and I agree with what you are saying I will end it at that ;)
With all the risk associated with selling guns I feel it is hard to justify. Most of the pro-gun arguments are essentially "arm the masses" or "we should all own guns" or "Arm minorities!" While you might believe that everyone has the right to own a gun, does it really justify the risk of bringing more heat on SR? I think not.
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Do you think this is a "democracy"? LOL.
Democracy is where 51% of the people (usually controlled in some way by a much smaller number of manipulators) shoves their policy down the throat of 49%.
It is the stuff civil wars are made of.
This is a business, privately owned. If you don't like it's policies you can ask the owner to consider changes but ultimately if they don't meet your requirement you are perfectly free to stop using it's services.
The arguments made have validity but it isn't "our" choice until "we" "vote" with our wallets (by not spending here) or our feet (by going elsewhere).
That is the reality, no amount of political campaigning will change it. And I don't think enough people are going to stop using the service because SR believes in ALL types of freedom, not just the types that agree with a given sector of the population.
I could be wrong.
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Do you think this is a "democracy"? LOL.
Democracy is where 51% of the people (usually controlled in some way by a much smaller number of manipulators) shoves their policy down the throat of 49%.
It is the stuff civil wars are made of.
This is a business, privately owned. If you don't like it's policies you can ask the owner to consider changes but ultimately if they don't meet your requirement you are perfectly free to stop using it's services.
The arguments made have validity but it isn't "our" choice until "we" "vote" with our wallets (by not spending here) or our feet (by going elsewhere).
That is the reality, no amount of political campaigning will change it. And I don't think enough people are going to stop using the service because SR believes in ALL types of freedom, not just the types that agree with a given sector of the population.
I could be wrong.
Did anyone ever say this was a democracy? This forum is titled "Silk Road Discussion" and we are discussion issues about the Silk Road - not demanding change. Also, the merits of democracy have nothing to do with thread.
Nobody here is threatening a boycott of SR or until they remove guns or "politically campaigning". Shit man, we are just discussing the pros and cons of selling illegal guns. I support SR to the fullest.
I believe that the crew/moderators of SR are here to help. If there is a problem then it is in SR's best interest to resolve it. If enough people wanted guns removed then perhaps SR would be willing to remove them, but as it stands the vote to have them removed is barely in the lead.
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I don't try to be a dick but I for have a thing for logical consistency. I can't help but point out that though "nobody is campaigning" the result of this and the other thread has been the addition in many tag lines "No guns on SR". If that's not campaigning I must have my definition of what campaigning means in this language wrong...or perhaps it's definition has been slowly morphed into something I was unaware of (another "thing" I have).
You first say you respect that this is NOT a democracy but then claim the results of the poll might force something (though they seem to not be doing so, I haven't voted or looked).
That has logical inconsistencies and I must address them as I see them. I really am not trying to start trouble.
I just found the freest place ever and now someone seems to be trying to REGULATE it and it irks me.
I recognize that some wares being hocked here may lead to State intrusion more so than others. I accept that as a legitimate argument.
It's SR's choice. Not ours or any polls. If we boycott, as you say, and $ is SR's prime motivator then he will adapt. He may just have a higher prime motivator for all we know.
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I don't try to be a dick but I for have a thing for logical consistency. I can't help but point out that though "nobody is campaigning" the result of this and the other thread has been the addition in many tag lines "No guns on SR". If that's not campaigning I must have my definition of what campaigning means in this language wrong...or perhaps it's definition has been slowly morphed into something I was unaware of (another "thing" I have).
You first say you respect that this is NOT a democracy but then claim the results of the poll might force something (though they seem to not be doing so, I haven't voted or looked).
That has logical inconsistencies and I must address them as I see them. I really am not trying to start trouble.
I just found the freest place ever and now someone seems to be trying to REGULATE it and it irks me.
I recognize that some wares being hocked here may lead to State intrusion more so than others. I accept that as a legitimate argument.
It's SR's choice. Not ours or any polls. If we boycott, as you say, and $ is SR's prime motivator then he will adapt. He may just have a higher prime motivator for all we know.
Perhaps I was incorrect to suggest that we are not campaigning. I am an advocate of removing guns, but campaigning makes it sound so much more active than simply creating a thread to point out the inherent risks of selling guns. I don't want to knit-pick, you are correct.
I did not suggest that the results of this poll might force anything. I said: "If enough people wanted guns removed then perhaps SR would be willing to remove them," which is to say that if enough people wanted guns removed then SR may be willing to remove them. Nothing more. "But as it stands the vote to have them removed is barely in the lead," meaning that since nearly as many people want guns to stay, it is highly unlikely that they will be removed. I am not trying to force anyone to do anything, just promoting civil debate.
To reiterate, I never suggested to boycott. I did not create this thread to fight against SR. I created this thread in SR's best interest - I want this place to stay around for as long as possible. I am not in any way morally opposed to guns and actually own a few myself. I simply see the sale of illegal guns as a possible threat to the future of SR.
I completely understand that you see a free place and don't want it regulated, but need I point out that there are already regulations in place. As it says in the Sellers Guide, "Please do not list anything who's purpose is to harm or defraud, such as stolen credit cards, counterfeit currency, personal info, assassinations, and weapons of mass destruction (chemical/bio weaponry, nukes, and anything used to make them). Please do not list anything related to pedophelia." These are regulations which are already in place for a good reason. I believe guns should be on that list. You do not, and I respect that.
My goal was not to irk you. I am not some radical trying to stop on peoples rights. I heard a few people mention that they wanted guns removed from SR so I figured I would create a poll to see how the general populace felt. It is SR's choice, I know that and never suggested otherwise.
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It's cool. I'm not calling anyone out, I just have to state my observations.
I'll leave it at this:
I see what looks like the very reason we are hiding here going on here. Democracy (well, totalitarianism in some places too). The mob rule. It starts with a small core group, or usually several.
They point out POTENTIAL dangers in a given behavior. They then successfully convince a majority (even though this majority could consist of groups that would disagree about almost every other issue) that a POTENTIAL danger is justification to gang up and deprive someone who has actually harmed no one or damaged no property of their rights to use their property as they wish.
In our case that property is our bodies, someone MIGHT die, or delve into sociopathic actions as a result of taking drugs. The core groups are moral "authoritarians" and "total safety at all cost freaks". The mob is the sectors of the population subscribing to these rantings (rather than thinking for themselves).
In the case of this thread it is the potential to lose the place for us all. But again, it isn't our place. The mob is forming nonetheless.
When I see what MIGHT be (drummed into a majority of minds by a few groups) be allowed to take precedence over anyone's rights to do as they please as long as they harm no one I see a bad moon rising.
It's been going on for way too long and anyone sick of hiding here should keep in mind the politics (and mind control put out by such a small bit of the total population) that put us here in hiding in the first place.
And seek to correct that behavior in themselves and spread the word to others.
The only vote that does not seek dominance over others is the vote(s) we cast every day with our purchasing decisions.
As far as the only reason someone would buy a gun here must mean they wish to initiate aggression???? Maybe they just don't want it confiscated by being on the list when it comes to that.
The same goes for buyers of gold, it was confiscated from US citizens in 33 when the FDR administration was desperate. They were no where near as desperate as all governments are now.
The list of gun grabbing regimes that later slaughtered much of their own populations is fairly long. In the US the National Guard went through New Orleans grabbing guns and the gangs followed, looting the unarmed.
We now have flash mobs appearing and the witnesses have all said "Only the National Guard could handle this, it's too much for the police"
Look at London right now.
The time for a massive gun grab is looking riper every day.
Of course if all citizens were armed and not brainwashed into depending on government guns to protect them it would be a different story. That's what those guys in 1776 had in mind.
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I don't think that shutting down the weapons section will remove the focus from SR. If they want to get rid of SR, news like "massacre started with gun-buy at SR" would be good. But if they want to, news like "15 kids died last week in Anywhere, Idaho by drugs bought on SR" would do the same and is easier to accomplish. They will fake anything (remember the preservativeless-wikileaks-raper, the great iraqi array of chemical weapons leading us to "Iraqi Freedom" or the bomb explosion at Bologna in 1980 causing 85 deaths and 200 wounded) if they want to.
So it is just a question if this network is secured or not. I came to you about Bitcoins in general which leads to an article in a big german magazine about SR. So SR has already drawn attention even across the ocean. And I think the DEA alone is enough to hunt you down if it's possible, they don't need the help (or better interference) of other ones, when they become the order. Maybe the DEA must fill out a lot of papers to get access to GPU-Power from other departments but thats it.
Therefore I think the main argument against the weapons section isn't one useful.
My point is that we're already out of system for using some substances. So it doesn't matter if we're trading other illegal things (to children pornography, I think those kind of users are a very small "minority" and illegal in every country round the world so we needn't discuss this). You can use drugs offered here to rape someone or do some other cruel things, even kill unnoticed with an overdose of "legal" medics sold here. So there is no great step to things you can do with weapons.
And times may go hard - there may be uprisings as things turn, see Tottenham in London today and last nights, see the banlieus of Paris sometimes every year, see some of the suburbs in the US almost everyday. There's a "little tendency" in Germany to fascism in those times and I don't wanna live undefended then. But you have to be rich or famous or otherwise endangered to get a weapon legal here, except for sport shooters. Not very easy, but think on other countries already living under suppressive regimes. So there are many illegal, but right reasons to support people with weapons.
I think thats included in the self-understatement of Bitcoins : to present a mirror of todays money culture but without states interference. Weapons are sold for money. Germany just sold some nice tanks to Saudi-Arabia, just for keeping up the democracy in Bahrain! So weapons should also be sold for BC and SR is the right platform as it's already out-of-law and some of the cannon fodder already aiming at the Bitcoin-project itself!
And to terrorism : anything legal in any state of the US shouldn't be the problem - so anything till automatic weapons shouldn't be the problem (as stated in other articles, you have to remove some tiles easily bought separately). You mustn't come with RPG, Stinger, C4 or whole weapon platforms but Osama's fellowers can supply themselves with AK-47s (and will laugh about the egyptian Beretta offered here as HS will do).
Could write further and further but think I've annoyed you enough and should close my first post here with the deepest beg for keeping the weapons section alive if it's possible to maintain security.
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Lots of discussion. A lot to read. So I didn't read all of it. Sorry if I'm repeating someone else's post.
It seems to me that there are only four possible outcomes for SilkRoad:
1) SR fades peacefully away because of disinterest, malfeasance or error and ceases to exist. An unlikely outcome I think;
2) SR continues pretty much unchanged from today. In other words, doesn't grow much, if at all, beyond today's population and doesn't do something to gain notariety. While possible, I do not think this is a certainty in the least;
3) SR is taken down "softly". By "softly", I mean that the Feds target the site and the operators, but don't bother with members since it is really just the market place itself that is of consequence. Frankly, I think this is the most likely outcome over the long term;
4) The outcome that is the worst case scenario is also the key to this discussion. If the Feds come after SR simply because it is a market for drugs, things come soft. If, on the other hand, the Feds come barging in because they are chasing an egregious act by a buyer that was enabled by SR, they will spend whatever it takes to track every member to either a dead end or an arrest.
I want weapons banned. They can ONLY harm Silk Road in the worst possible way. All things that can propel SR into outcome #4 need a keen, hard look.
Final point. If you question how they can possibly take down a TOR site, just consider how they found and took down Osama. I can't imagine that, given enough motivation, the Feds couldn't do it.
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I voted no for only one reason.... those who act like wild animals are generally non-white males, who are uneducated, ignorant, and racist as all hell. I am in favor of ALL people being allowed to fully arm themselves not only for protection from governments and other criminal organizations, but also to be able to defend themselves from the animals who we are forced to accept as part of our society... This is with the explicit intent of making those baboons think before they decide to go on a herd mentality rampage, attacking and destroying other persons property and attacking people in large packs.
I voted no for only one reason...those who currently own guns are generally white males, (some in law enforcement) who are backward and uneducated. However, I am in favor for the ex-cons, the radicals, the communists, anarchist, the oppressed, and those who suffer abuse from the dominant Anglo culture in America to possess all the gun and ammo they can get (including C4 and proper training). This is with the implicit intent to bring about change in this failed system called America.
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...those who act like wild animals are generally non-white males, who are uneducated, ignorant, and racist as all hell.
God ...I love bigots like you, you’re so fuck’n stupid. Dude, I "may" have white skin and look just like you. However, I am dedicated to deconstructing the dominant Anglo culture because of people like you, I am dedicated to breeding white Europeans out of existence, (my European DNA goes into as many Black, Asian, and Hispanic women I can find – and my 5 NON-White children are more lovely than any blond haired, blue eyed genetic fuck up). I get a hard dick knowing white business owners are being burned to the ground in London (like we saw this week), I cheer as white Americans are being shot out of the sky of Afghanistan (like we saw this week).
Get a life dude...you’re a dying breed.
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...those who act like wild animals are generally non-white males, who are uneducated, ignorant, and racist as all hell.
God ...I love bigots like you, you’re so fuck’n stupid. Dude, I "may" have white skin and look just like you. However, I am dedicated to deconstructing the dominant Anglo culture because of people like you, I am dedicated to breeding white Europeans out of existence, (my European DNA goes into as many Black, Asian, and Hispanic women I can find – and my 5 NON-White children are more lovely than any blond haired, blue eyed genetic fuck up). I get a hard dick knowing white business owners are being burned to the ground in London (like we saw this week), I cheer as white Americans are being shot out of the sky of Afghanistan (like we saw this week).
Get a life dude...you’re a dying breed.
Let me speak as a racist -
The system in place (transnational corporations, federal government etc.) screws every race equally. The days of racist cops shaking down blacks and giving whites a free ride is long over. A lot of the pigs are racists, but they are simply elitists. They may pull over a car of blacks and try to bust them or set em up, but they'd just as soon do the same to regular white people. They view us (regular whites) as their inferiors who should just stay out of their way and not question them.
You're free to do as you please, but I'd recommend saving your anger for those in the system instead of white people just trying to live their lives in peace. I used to hold a lot of anger towards other races myself, and it's been liberating letting all of that go.
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I voted no for only one reason.... those who act like wild animals are generally non-white males, who are uneducated, ignorant, and racist as all hell. I am in favor of ALL people being allowed to fully arm themselves not only for protection from governments and other criminal organizations, but also to be able to defend themselves from the animals who we are forced to accept as part of our society... This is with the explicit intent of making those baboons think before they decide to go on a herd mentality rampage, attacking and destroying other persons property and attacking people in large packs.
This sounds like a troll, try not to feed into it. Just ignore him and his ridiculous shit.
I have heard a number of people use the argument that since drugs are sold on SR then it doesn't matter if other illegal things are sold there. Drugs will attract attention from DEA and perhaps FBI, but guns will attract attention from ATF and possibly homeland. Drugs can certainly be used to rape or kill, but in the eyes of LE they do not pose as big a threat as guns.
Selling guns is just another way to attract more unwanted attention.
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I would never deprive my neighbor, or his family, of his right to life.
Gun haters defend their helplessness. They are offended by one who can protect his family, when he choose not to. Having the right to live is NOT the same as being able.
Cry to the news reporter that there was nothing you could do? How such things could never happen in YOUR neighborhood, because you're protected by some magical force-field of rainbows and unicorns?
To choose to be helpless and unable to preserve yourself and your friends/family is your choice. To force that handicap upon others, because seeing someone else make a better choice than you is offensive, is the most sick and demented thing I have ever heard of. I don't think that paraplegics want to force everyone with working legs to use wheelchairs just because they are stuck in one...
So you don't care about your family or your friends. Fine. Me and Mine deserve better than that. Unsavory elements of humanity that are willing to kill you for a nickle DO exist. It happens to someone every few minutes. What makes you so special that you think it can't happen to you? Read a newspaper lately? Nobody thinks it can happen to themselves, until it does.
Several times a day, a kid gets murdered and the parent says "There was nothing I could do!" Really? Where was your gun, asshole? Your kid is dead because you put politics above your own child's life! That's fucking sick!
I'll supply a firearm to anyone. Yes, anyone. You don't need a gun to be a thug or a murderer, nor does it make the job any easier. You could kill your neighbor with at least 40 items you have laying around the house right now; why buy a gun on the Internet Black Market and make it so difficult and complicated for yourself? Dur...
This isn't even an argument. gun haters are merely people who aren't bright enough to see through propaganda and become champions of hatred in favor of the lies they have fallen for.
I realize it brings heat to SR. But far less than the drugs already do. That's like comparing a mount to a mole-hill and pretending the molehill is a problem. How many 'illegal gun sting' operations have you ever heard of? Yes, zero. It's not a priority for LE. Most of them have no idea what they're looking at when they see a gun, to know if there is something illegal about it or not. But that leafy green substance, or that unidentified white powder is a license to invade and kill, and that is what their giant egos live for. The search incident to drug arrest turns up the hidden gun taht wasn't used or even known about until they were already under arrest for drugs....
Get a clue, gun-haters. You're hypocrites. You're just as bad as the cops that arrested your last supplier... No freedom or human right has ever been won peaceably. EVER. V for Vendetta was a cool movie, but it's just a movie. History shows that it never has, and never will go down that way... Put down the pipe for a few days and think about it. I'm all for your Right to toke until you fall down. But I expect a little sanity and rational thinking now and again. If you could ban guns (which you can't), your pot would be gone quite soon after.
Try to realize we're on the same team and the propaganda you've swallowed is a pack of lies. Step into the light, Brothers. You're only hurting yourselves...
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This is SR's site. He has chosen to have a "Weaponry" category. He has a piece of every transaction here.
Many have expressed their opposition to "Weaponry", but SR has not closed it. If anyone is against the "Weaponry" category the only real pressure they can exert on SR is to leave his marketplace completely. Not leaving his market completely only proves that your predilection for drugs is greater than your anti-gun sentiment. The same holds for gun people who don't want drugs here.
This is SR's site, you are always free to leave and never come back. Start your own marketplace with only drugs or only guns, if you feel so strongly. SR will run his business the way he wants to.
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^ This
I support all freedoms, not just the ones a politician or a limited intellect dictates to me.
I am opposed only to hatemongering hypocrites...
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To choose to be helpless and unable to preserve yourself and your friends/family is your choice. To force that handicap upon others, because seeing someone else make a better choice than you is offensive, is the most sick and demented thing I have ever heard of.
Do you really believe opposing the sale of illegal guns is the most sick and demented think you have ever heard of?
So you don't care about your family or your friends. Fine. Me and Mine deserve better than that.
How did you draw this conclusion?
Several times a day, a kid gets murdered and the parent says "There was nothing I could do!" Really? Where was your gun, asshole? Your kid is dead because you put politics above your own child's life!
Really...?
Gun haters are merely people who aren't bright enough to see through propaganda and become champions of hatred in favor of the lies they have fallen for.
Chill, dude.
I realize it brings heat to SR. But far less than the drugs already do. That's like comparing a mount to a mole-hill and pretending the molehill is a problem. How many 'illegal gun sting' operations have you ever heard of? Yes, zero.
There was just a gun sting opperation to bust illegal weapons from getting into the hands of mexican gangs in the past month.
Get a clue, gun-haters. You're hypocrites. You're just as bad as the cops that arrested your last supplier...
That makes no sense to me.
No freedom or human right has ever been won peaceably. EVER.
That is absolutely not true.
Try to realize we're on the same team and the propaganda you've swallowed is a pack of lies. Step into the light, Brothers. You're only hurting yourselves...
The purpose of this thread was to promote civil debate as to how you feel about the sale of illegal guns should be on the Silk Road. Nobody is trying to cram propaganda down anyone's throat or force change.
I support all freedoms, not just the ones a politician or a limited intellect dictates to me.
I am opposed only to hatemongering hypocrites...
It appears you do not support the freedom of other people's opinions. Criticizing people for their opinions is not cool, much less calling them ignorant hypocrites and to suggest they don't care about their friends and families. That is hatemongering, which you are supposedly opposed to. I respect your beliefs and ask that you not use inflammatory personal attacks as a means of getting your point across.
Can we please keep this civil?
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This sounds like a troll...
Fred...
I present a cogent syllogism rooted in knowledge, wisdom and understanding regarding why weapons must be sold on SR. My position is rooted in anger with a sense of empathy for social injustices that I have witnessed. Passive ambitions have never worked, the elites understand, the dominant culture understands this, and anyone with an understanding of history understands that passiveness never works.
SR is the cutting edge for future sites. Be it guns, ammo, C4 or any other devise must be assessable by the populace.
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Not leaving his market completely only proves that your predilection for drugs is greater than your anti-gun sentiment.
This is a straw man argument: no one has threatened to leave SR over the gun issue. This has been a long thread, but I think it would be fair to say that most (but not all) of those that are against a weapon category are not anti-gun, but rather think that carrying guns brings excessive risk to SR. Fred, who started the thread, said that he owns firearms; I've argued against assault rifles on SR, and I, too, own guns.
Guns just aren't hard to get in the USA: for fucks sake, they're carried at WalMart and Longs, and to almost anyone that walks in the door over 18. The same simply isn't true about the drugs carried on SR, which might be the only place they can find their drug(s) of choice. It would be a shame to lose this amazing place, just to provide yet another place to buy guns that are easily available elsewhere.
But perhaps I'm building up a straw man myself. To anyone that wishes to buy a gun off of SR: why would you want to buy off SR, rather than at Walmart, your local gun dealer, or a gun show? I'm not anti-gun or a gun hater; I just don't see the point of carrying guns on SR when they're freely available elsewhere.
Also, sellers can't be anonymous when shipping guns. Unlike drug packages that weight an ounce or two and can be dropped into any mail bin, all but the smallest of handguns are over 13 ounces including packaging, so a seller would have to walk into a videotaped post office and hand the package to a postal worker, leaving prints on the package unless they are (perhaps suspiciously) wearing gloves. This makes selling guns inherently more risky to sellers, as well as to buyers if the seller is caught. Again, I just don't see the point, but perhaps I'm missing something.
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Nef, I couldn't have said it better myself. Thank you! As for your question as to why people would want to buy guns from SR as opposed to walmart, I can only think of a few possibilities.
1) They are felons and thus unable to buy guns.
2) They do not want to be in a database as being a registered gun owner.
3) They live in a country with strict gun control laws.
Am I missing anything?
Fred...
I present a cogent syllogism rooted in knowledge, wisdom and understanding regarding why weapons must be sold on SR. My position is rooted in anger with a sense of empathy for social injustices that I have witnessed. Passive ambitions have never worked, the elites understand, the dominant culture understands this, and anyone with an understanding of history understands that passiveness never works.
SR is the cutting edge for future sites. Be it guns, ammo, C4 or any other devise must be assessable by the populace.
First, I want to thank you for keeping your argument civilized and free of bombast. Why is it that you feel we all must arm ourselves, and what are these ambitions you speak of? If these ambitions include change by force, then the the sale of guns, ammo and C4 to arm people is akin to a violent revolution bordering on terrorism. If these ambitions are to protect ourselves, then why on earth would we need C4?
I am not trying to put words in your mouth, but when you speak of arming people with high explosives I can only assume it is an active attempt to force change. What other reason would you have for arming people with high explosives? I can't think of a better way to get SR shut down than for supplying high explosives to people who want to use them maliciously.
I am a strong advocate of each person doing whatever the hell they want, as long as it doesn't infringe on someone else's rights. It is one thing for people to purchase drugs for personal consumption, it is an entirely different thing to arm people with high explosives. Please correct me if I have misunderstood your point.
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@nef
You make some good points. I think the main reason someone might buy weapons on SR is because of gun control laws in the area where they live. The logistics of how this can be done anonymously is a separate issue, but one possibility is that the weapon is broken down into parts and sent in multiple shipments, there may be other methods. SR has decided to assume the risk of having this category in his market in order to get his cut on the deals. The individuals involved assume their risk in making the transaction.
What is unclear is why "weaponry" is considered a greater risk to SR's market as a whole. Aren't we operating under the assumption that the technology makes a "takedown" of the market near impossible? My understanding of LE is that they are focused on making arrests of all and any kind. What is the basis for the claim that enforcement of gun laws takes precedent over drug laws?
Finally, this is SR's decision, and we should respect that. I'm sure he considered the ramifications of "weaponry" before adding the section. It's his risk to take, and if it leads to the downfall of his market, another market will quickly rise to replace it. We are all free to take the initiative to create whatever type of onion sites we like and compete with SR if we don't like what he is doing.
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What is unclear is why "weaponry" is considered a greater risk to SR's market as a whole. Aren't we operating under the assumption that the technology makes a "takedown" of the market near impossible? My understanding of LE is that they are focused on making arrests of all and any kind. What is the basis for the claim that enforcement of gun laws takes precedent over drug laws?
Finally, this is SR's decision, and we should respect that. I'm sure he considered the ramifications of "weaponry" before adding the section. It's his risk to take, and if it leads to the downfall of his market, another market will quickly rise to replace it. We are all free to take the initiative to create whatever type of onion sites we like and compete with SR if we don't like what he is doing.
I do not feel that weaponry takes precedent over drug laws or that the sale of weapons is a greater risk than the sale of drugs. I feel that selling guns is simply another added risk. Since weapon sales account for so little of SR's total sales, I question whether it is worth that additional risk. That is basically my whole argument for removing guns - the added risk. I have no moral or ethical issues with gun ownership and, as I have mentioned, own a few guns myself.
I am not computer savvy enough to tell you for certain one way or another, but I highly doubt a "takedown" would be impossible. With enough resources and support, the government likely has the power to pursue SR. The sale of illegal guns is just one more reason for the government to want to put an end to this great market. Silk Road has given me and many others access to drugs that are hard to find and dangerous to buy on the streets, and I would hate to see that taken away.
Yes it is SR's decision and I do respect that. I truly hope that this thread is not seen as an attack on how SR runs their business. This thread is here to discuss the pros and cons of selling guns on SR - I am not trying to force SR make any changes. I love what SR is doing, and respect the hell out of all the effort they have put into this place and support them 100%.
I am really interested in what SilkRoad and the moderators have to say about this topic as I would imagine they have put far more thought into the decision to allow the sale of weapons than any of us.
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follow constitution, abide by human rights
no harm no crime
listen to ron paul, peter schiff
education not prohibition :)
Ron Paul for President 2012! ;D
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...those who act like wild animals are generally non-white males, who are uneducated, ignorant, and racist as all hell.
God ...I love bigots like you, you’re so fuck’n stupid. Dude, I "may" have white skin and look just like you. However, I am dedicated to deconstructing the dominant Anglo culture because of people like you, I am dedicated to breeding white Europeans out of existence, (my European DNA goes into as many Black, Asian, and Hispanic women I can find – and my 5 NON-White children are more lovely than any blond haired, blue eyed genetic fuck up). I get a hard dick knowing white business owners are being burned to the ground in London (like we saw this week), I cheer as white Americans are being shot out of the sky of Afghanistan (like we saw this week).
Get a life dude...you’re a dying breed.
Let me speak as a racist -
The system in place (transnational corporations, federal government etc.) screws every race equally. The days of racist cops shaking down blacks and giving whites a free ride is long over. A lot of the pigs are racists, but they are simply elitists. They may pull over a car of blacks and try to bust them or set em up, but they'd just as soon do the same to regular white people. They view us (regular whites) as their inferiors who should just stay out of their way and not question them.
You're free to do as you please, but I'd recommend saving your anger for those in the system instead of white people just trying to live their lives in peace. I used to hold a lot of anger towards other races myself, and it's been liberating letting all of that go.
I agree with Ricky. Anger and hate should be directed at the real oppressors. All this race/gender/religion BS is designed to divide the masses and ensure the elites stay in power.
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Meh, I agree with CindyLove.
I wouldn't mind seeing weapons gone from here. Not because I think people shouldn't own guns - but because I do agree firearms sells will attract more attention. But in the end it's SR's choice - so no real reason for everyone here to get so heated.
Instead of spending this time and passion debating - everyone should go study security and help keep us from getting caught if/when they start trying to hack us into the ground. Together we can stand strong.
Peace,
DigitalAlch
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Nothing will get SR shut down faster than some kid shooting up his school with an illegal gun purchased on here. People are funny about things like that. If some unfortunate recreational drug user ODs, mainstream society doesn't give a shit. If 60 minutes finds out that some socially awkward kid killed off his english lit class with a gun from the internet, we are done for. If we continue to allow people to sell guns on here it is only a matter of time before this happens. Lets be smart and take action before something tragic goes down and its too late.
That's just idiot logic - sorry. LE is already trying to shut down the site. LE could never prove that a shooter bought the gun off here anyway. The biggest percentage of psychos with guns are LE!! The same people you're worried about placating - that's stupid!!
Put guns and ammo in the hands of the anarchists on this site!!
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Every person has the right to defend themselves against others with guns. Vote NO.
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I am a strong advocate of each person doing whatever the hell they want, as long as it doesn't infringe on someone else's rights.
No social system, with the creation of western civilization, has ever given all their citizens a set of balanced or equal rights. While the concept of Democracy sounds good, it is nothing more than cover for corporate Plutocracy. How can this be changed when those who control the money also control the power? We saw some of this in the UK this week, and I would argue more uprising will happen as Capitalism collapses and the lie of western civilization becomes apparent. Peace will happen when the current power structures are either destroyed by their own volition or dismantled with force.
Terrorism and justice are two sides of the same coin; the only difference is who is holding the coin. Whether it is with C-4, a gun, or a plane flown into the side of a building, the abusing and oppressive nature of western civilization, specifically with countries like the UK or the U.S., change will happen.
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i just voted NO ,so we are in the lead.yay...lets keep it that way...was hoping someone could hook me up with a miniature gat
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but i think guns should not be sent via mail...cause thats just asking to get bust....guns should be delivered via dead drop only and the buyer should receive coordinates after paying online
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...those who act like wild animals are generally non-white males, who are uneducated, ignorant, and racist as all hell.
God .., you’re so fuck’n stupid.
Well, you are right about that, I forgot my damn password... had to start over, but it's close.
All I did is replace your 'non-racist' bullshit with some 'racist-like' bullshit. Don't get your panties in such a bundle. Take a deep breath... relax.
I actually stand on the same platform you do when it comes to people being armed. EVERYONE. ARMED. GLOBAL.
Everything else you spout is tripe and dribble. I bet you love re-reading your own posts. Bragging to your friends ... "I TOTALLY nailed this racist fuck on the SR forum, you shoulda been there! It was AWESOME! Oh wait! Here, check it out! I'll read it to you!"
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Well, you are right about that, I forgot my damn password... had to start over, but it's close.
All I did is replace your 'non-racist' bullshit with some 'racist-like' bullshit. Don't get your panties in such a bundle. Take a deep breath... relax.
I actually stand on the same platform you do when it comes to people being armed. EVERYONE. ARMED. GLOBAL.
Everything else you spout is tripe and dribble. I bet you love re-reading your own posts. Bragging to your friends ... "I TOTALLY nailed this racist fuck on the SR forum, you shoulda been there! It was AWESOME! Oh wait! Here, check it out! I'll read it to you!"
This is all totally off topic and the exact opposite of what this thread should be about. Just a bunch of hating and shit talking with little substance. Now I'm going to go reread some posts and brag to my friends about how I nailed you! ;)
I am a strong advocate of each person doing whatever the hell they want, as long as it doesn't infringe on someone else's rights.
No social system, with the creation of western civilization, has ever given all their citizens a set of balanced or equal rights. While the concept of Democracy sounds good, it is nothing more than cover for corporate Plutocracy. How can this be changed when those who control the money also control the power? We saw some of this in the UK this week, and I would argue more uprising will happen as Capitalism collapses and the lie of western civilization becomes apparent. Peace will happen when the current power structures are either destroyed by their own volition or dismantled with force.
Terrorism and justice are two sides of the same coin; the only difference is who is holding the coin. Whether it is with C-4, a gun, or a plane flown into the side of a building, the abusing and oppressive nature of western civilization, specifically with countries like the UK or the U.S., change will happen.
Do you realize that your entire argument is exactly the kind of talk that will have every defense agency gunning for SR? There is only ONE gun even listed on SR right now - you think that is going to help overthrow America? Your extremist political rants belong elsewhere, such as your journal. Maybe you could just go ahead and start an "I hate democracy/capitalism/western civilization" thread and quit filling this one with litter.
Sure there are injustices done; there has never been a society completely free of injustice. You think the sale of a few illegal guns is going to help destroy western civilization and create some kind of utopia? I hardly call that a valid argument for allowing the sale of guns on SR.
If anything, most of these pro-gun arguments are so extreme it scares me that you would be the ones walking the streets carrying the illegal guns sold here. I would see it as a justified move on the part of LE for stopping the kind of violence that you speak of.
I'm just a chill dude trying to catch a buzz and mind my own business. I don't want to see this place shut down because of you anti-government extremists talking about violently overthrowing the government. I am in support of libertarian ethics about minding my own business and keeping government out of my personal life, but the right to buy guns and explosives for the purpose of "dismantling the current power structure by force" is going too far.
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...every defense agency gunning for SR?
Fred,
I too am a laid back dude who smokes a bit of bud; however, we are living in exciting times. The site SR is significant in the same way Pirate Bay is to the freedom of media. Human nature seeks freedom and justice, yet because of flawed ideology and backward philosophy (such as Machiavelli) held by western elites the world suffers.
If you listened to PM Cameron today he sounded like a scared rabbit. Change is happening ....
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drp2p,
It is late and I am not in a clear state of mind so if I am not making sense then I apologize, but I will try and get my point across.
I agree that change is happening, however that is not the whole picture. Being in the front lines of change involving the piracy of media (such as Pirate Bay) and being in the front lines of the kind of change requiring high explosives and illegal weapons is a whole different ballgame. You know this, I know this and the government knows this. The resources put forth towards preventing illegal downloading is nowhere near the resources put towards anti-terrorism.
A bunch of laid back drug users buying drugs isn't going to receive the same resistance from authorities as extremists buying and selling guns and explosives.
I want no part in any violent change and I certainly don't want to be in the same cross-hairs as terrorists.
I am not trying to fight for violent change, I just want a place where I can safely buy substances for my own personal use. Perhaps SR could have a drugs-only website and then an "everything else" website. I'm just throwing that out there as an idea so please don't say I am "politically campaigning" to force SR to make changes or anything.
Thank you drp2p for keeping this discussion civil, I enjoy hearing your point of view on this issue.
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Maybe I can help. I know quite a bit about firearms and laws surrounding firearms. Reading the thread, I think we all want the same thing - no guns in the hands of anyone irresponsible or mal-intentioned. However, since we're all on SR for the same reason, I suspect none of us has a problem facilitating the sale of guns or gun parts to responsible adults. The question would be how to achieve this. Believe it or not, laws provide some clarity here.
I propose...
1. No international shipping of any complete firearm. Keep it simple.
2. No pistol sales. Pistols cannot be legally transferred to another individual in nearly any state in the US without notifying appropriate law enforcement entities. Pistols are so tightly regulated, keep it simple.
3. No Class III firearms, such as short barrel rifles (SBRs). These require a special ATF process and even when legal, cannot generally be transferred out of one state to the next. So keep it simple.
4. No automatic or banned firearms. These would sell for several thousands of dollars anyway, so practically speaking, there's no point opening the door. Keep it simple.
Examples of legitimate firearm sales on SR...
a. Rifles (so long as it's not automatic, rule #4, or Class III like an SBR, rule #3). In many states there's no law that restricts individual sales of rifles from person to person anyway. Many states don't even track the initial sale from the manufacturer.
b. Firearm parts. Lightening links, suppressors, etc.
c. Uppers/Lowers. Generally goes along with rifles and firearm parts.
Anyhow, restricting the sale of pistols, allowing rifles but not auto or class III, I think achieves what we're all trying to do here. Facilitate the sale of firearms and firearm parts to enthusiasts and collectors and minimize collateral damage. I think some middle-ground can be achieved here.
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I think some middle-ground can be achieved here.
WTF....Please...., the first thing you have done is create a set of rules. We DO NOT want rules. By your position only a specific class of people can own guns. That is flawed. Yes...on one point, keep it simple.
We want the same weapons as the military and police, we want peace, we want actual justice, we want the current social system changed, and did I forget....we demand change.
Take a few weeks and read the work of Emma Goldman.
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I think some middle-ground can be achieved here.
WTF....Please...., the first thing you have done is create a set of rules. We DO NOT want rules. By your position only a specific class of people can own guns. That is flawed. Yes...on one point, keep it simple.
We want the same weapons as the military and police, we want peace, we want actual justice, we want the current social system changed, and did I forget....we demand change.
Take a few weeks and read the work of Emma Goldman.
I think middle-ground is exactly what we need. Do you honestly believe that owning an illegal gun will promote any positive change? I am under the impression that SR is based upon libertarian beliefs, not anarchism.
Anyhow, restricting the sale of pistols, allowing rifles but not auto or class III, I think achieves what we're all trying to do here. Facilitate the sale of firearms and firearm parts to enthusiasts and collectors and minimize collateral damage. I think some middle-ground can be achieved here.
Thank you 9eia for shedding some light on gun laws. I agree with you completely. Unfortunately, some members will not be pleased until we are all armed to the teeth with C4 and wild ideas of an anarchist utopia which will somehow result from a full blown violent uprising.
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Do you realize that your entire argument is exactly the kind of talk that will have every defense agency gunning for SR? There is only ONE gun even listed on SR right now - you think that is going to help overthrow America? Your extremist political rants belong elsewhere, such as your journal. Maybe you could just go ahead and start an "I hate democracy/capitalism/western civilization" thread and quit filling this one with litter.
I'm not knocking your beliefs, but by government standards you are an extremist just as much as we anti-government kooks. In their eyes, you're a radical because you've chosen to ignore their insane laws and live your life as you choose. Have you read any of the articles out there where we've caught flack? They're calling for our removal because of the drugs being sold on this site, not the guns.
What I'm getting at is we're all in the same boat. The government hates all of us, and removing certain products from SR isn't going to get back in their graces.
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I think some middle-ground can be achieved here.
WTF....Please...., the first thing you have done is create a set of rules. We DO NOT want rules. By your position only a specific class of people can own guns. That is flawed. Yes...on one point, keep it simple.
We want the same weapons as the military and police, we want peace, we want actual justice, we want the current social system changed, and did I forget....we demand change.
Take a few weeks and read the work of Emma Goldman.
LOL! I hope you didn't vote as one of her best quotes was "If voting made a difference they would make it illegal."
Add Lysander Spooner, HL Mencken, Albert Jay Nock to that list.
I'm no objectivist (I'm an anarcho-capitalist) but Ayn Rands works do a great wonder to describe the corrosion of humanity that occurs under democracy.
Most important of all, if you really want to find the real villains here, read Ludwig Von Mises, Murray Rothbard, Tom Woods, Robert Murphy, Hans Herman Hoppe, Jorge Guido Hulsman, Andrew Napalitono and of course, the man who recently brought so many of these thinkers back into the awareness of the masses....Ron Paul.
Central control of what is defined as money is the root to strike at. It can be done peacefully (mostly, a dying beast WILL thrash around a bit first) by understanding REAL economics and how currency manipulation (a government/corporate partnership) has collected power AND CONSUMED a huge part of the worlds capital stock....wasted it instead of growing it just so they could own you and your bodies energies. And your grandchildrens. Theft through inflation. The redistribution (hidden service) of real wealth via the vehicle of forced bullshit devaluing every day script.
But more people are seeing it. Everyone knows something is up and a few assholes will organize and inspire mobs to attack the WRONG people...some poor shop owner who's only crime was to try to succeed in a world that is almost totally rigged. It does help keep the public eye redirected away from those who really understand and are adamantly trying to educate.
And it does a great job of fooling people into thinking what we have is capitalism when it is really corporatism, an evil impossible without the backing of a force seen as a legitimate monopoly on law and use of force. Capitalism is but a component within corporatism, it's the only good and decent part of it and before the ass hats came in and claimed that government has created civilization private property, specialization, production and trade had already done so, far better than the leeches who are ruining could.
Oh, I forgot Thorough in that list: "There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil for every one striking at the root.
In a world where no one has any legitimate reason save defense of person and property to act in aggression it won't matter WHAT we have access to. Saying that possession of C4 WILL lead to the initiation of aggression (rather than defense from the initiator) is like saying the possession of a penis WILL lead to a rape.
Change IS happening. Listen to those who have figured out how an (unqualified) elite has captured our souls and figure out how to WITHDRAW our support from their systems.
Add Sam Konkin to that list and look up Agorism and counter economics. That IS what we are engaging in here.
Well, we would be if the bitcoin were not so tied to the USD like every other form of money.
I didn't vote in this poll because I am done contributing to the mob rule mentality voting leads to.
But I will vote for Ron Paul if I get the chance. Not because I want a president or a government but because every bit of support he gets leads to more education on the root of the evil we are hiding from in here.
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More or less what bp said...
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bp ~ great post man! :-)
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+1 BP
I hope no one misinterprets my previous post for something it's not. My only point was that I understand our SR admins dilemma. If they're reading this far into the thread, I just hope they realize that allowing gun sales is NOT the same thing as allowing child porn. You're not automatically evil if you buy or own guns. I don't even want to talk about how awful the other thing is, so let's skip that. SR should allow gun sales, plain and simple... and if it'll help our SR admins wrestle their own conscience into submission, I'm just saying, it's their site - they have options. Hopefully, it'll become a moot point soon anyway. There's a lot I'd like to buy.
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Nicely put BP. Very Ayn Randesque... and about as long as Atlas Shrugged too ;) Hank Reardon and Dagny Taggart are my heroes. By the way, who is John Galt?
I agree with a lot of what you said. But "Saying that possession of C4 WILL lead to the initiation of aggression (rather than defense from the initiator) is like saying the possession of a penis WILL lead to a rape." Which I find to be a very poor analogy. The sole purpose of C4 is to blow shit up. When I hear a radical (or whatever you want to be called) speaking about changing the world through the use of force, putting C4 in their hands would likely lead to some sort of destruction. A penis's sole purpose isn't to rape (at least my penis) and, when wielded correctly, results in nobody getting hurt.
"I didn't vote in this poll because I am done contributing to the mob rule mentality voting leads to."
I am really not trying to create mob mentality, it was really just created to see if there were that many gun supporters, which I was surprised to find there are. I never imagined there would be this much heated debate. I will touch on this later on.
You have a way with words, BP. Have you considered becoming a writer?
Do you realize that your entire argument is exactly the kind of talk that will have every defense agency gunning for SR? There is only ONE gun even listed on SR right now - you think that is going to help overthrow America? Your extremist political rants belong elsewhere, such as your journal. Maybe you could just go ahead and start an "I hate democracy/capitalism/western civilization" thread and quit filling this one with litter.
I'm not knocking your beliefs, but by government standards you are an extremist just as much as we anti-government kooks. In their eyes, you're a radical because you've chosen to ignore their insane laws and live your life as you choose. Have you read any of the articles out there where we've caught flack? They're calling for our removal because of the drugs being sold on this site, not the guns.
What I'm getting at is we're all in the same boat. The government hates all of us, and removing certain products from SR isn't going to get back in their graces.
You are right, we are all in the same boat. My point of view is from a drug user who doesn't want guns to ruin it for me, so to speak. Your point may be a gun user who doesn't want drugs to ruin it for you. I'm really not trying to label you extremists, I just don't know what exactly to call you. I am a perpetual devil's advocate, I hate all sides equally. Everything has pros and con and it is all about personal opinion when it comes to religion and politics - there is no absolute right and wrong.
Perhaps I have been looking at this from the wrong prospective. We are all in the same boat and should support each other. I don't want an "us vs them" mentality with the drug and gun crowd, or with you Ricky and BP. Mutual support may be the best solution. I love the fact that we can buy and sell damn near anything, and I feel like a dick trying to tell anyone what they can and can't do. It entirely goes against my personal beliefs.
But, I would just HATE to see SR shut down over some kid buying a gun and killing someone so I figured the best solution would simply be to remove guns. I figured that since guns only account for a minuscule part of the SR marketplace (there is only 1 gun for sale right now), nobody would care about removing guns. I was wrong.
Silk Road is a community bonded together on more than simply buyers and sellers. We are here, as drp2p said, in the front lines of change. This is fighting the good fight - for the freedom to live without unjust constraints. The last thing I want to do is split this community into factions. If that means keeping the guns section on SR, I am all for it.
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I didn't vote in this poll because I am done contributing to the mob rule mentality voting leads to.
It is not mob rule mentality...it is teaching. Keep it up.
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@BP
My problem with voting doesn't apply to a survey like this. The problem with democratic systems is that the outcome of vote totals leads to the initiation of force of the majority on the minority. In a democracy, if you are in the minority and choose to resist the will of the voting majority then the majority will send a gang of people with guns and badges (cops) to prevent your resistance. Simply polling a group to determine group preferences is not tied to the violence of the state. Yes, the majority may "win" and the individuals reading the poll results, in this case SR, may choose to act to satisfy that majority. Yes, the minority may be disappointed with the outcome but nobody HERE will harm them for disagreeing or even for going elsewhere for their products (local gang members/government aside).
That is exactly how ALL market systems work. People "vote" with their money for which goods and service they want from a given firm. I might REALLY want my local drug store to carry anchovy flavored toothpaste. However, the majority of people that "vote" with their dollars want other flavors of toothpaste. As the minority, I am excluded from being provided anchovy toothpaste however nobody will FORCE me to buy other flavors. Nobody will FORCE me not to seek out someone that will sell me anchovy toothpaste. Polls and voting are just another way that independent vendors determine what the majority of customers want. Yeah, it sucks if you want anchovy toothpaste but sucking is a lot different that being locked in a cage. If you feel so strongly about the fact that a particular seller doesn't provide what you want, then you have many other options. You may petition them to change, picket them, boycott them, convince the other customers to ask for what you want as well, educate others about the merits of your desired product, etc. However, the only restricted action is FORCING them to sell you the product.
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People "vote" with their money for which goods and service they want from a given firm.
Cool. I was starting to thing this poll had turned into an actual vote, which scared me. I just feel fortunate that SR has allowed me onto their property in the first place.
Would be helpful if someone could also clarify what the current SR position on selling guns?
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What's wrong with blowing shit up? I enjoy it.
That doesn't mean I want to harm anyone.
I don't even want to harm anyone actively aggressing against me.....but I will if I have to and by the right of my nature no one shall tell me what tools T can or cannot posses to prepare for that possibility.
I want tanks, RPG, and FA18s at my local gun shop. They'd be a lot more affordable if government and their no-bid, whatever we paid last for it must be the budget (completely ignoring that development leads to improvement in quality and lower prices in a free market full of healthy competition).
But that's just me.
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I read through this post, and my suggestion is a compromise cos e'erbody in tha club love compromise!
Why not just create a totally separate new site called "Rifles & Jailbait Avenue"?
Sell all weapons and kid porn there. By creating a series of Silk Road-alikes with graded levels of merchandise, people can effectively choose their level of self-incrimination. There can also be sweet-ass GIF logos of dancing nude 12 year olds shooting at each other, instead of the camel rider on SR now.
All your problems are now solved.
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No no no no and NO! Get rid of guns on SR. Selling illegal weapons is on a whole different level than selling drugs. Think about who could have access to purchasing these guns (basically ANYONE with a computer)...now some of you might or might not have kids who go to school...I think you know where I'm going with this. You DON'T know who is buying them, so DON'T sell them!
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No no no no and NO! Get rid of guns on SR. Selling illegal weapons is on a whole different level than selling drugs. Think about who could have access to purchasing these guns (basically ANYONE with a computer)...now some of you might or might not have kids who go to school...I think you know where I'm going with this. You DON'T know who is buying them, so DON'T sell them!
People sell heroin and other highly abused drugs here too. You don't think that some of those people are harmed as a consequence? You don't think that some of them are negligent or abusive parents as a result of their drug abuse?
Unfortunately there are bad people among us that use guns for evil purposes. The majority of them are employed by various world governments in the police and military. The rest of them love the fact that good people tend to comply with laws against guns. When surveyed, violent criminals say that their #1 concern when choosing a victim is determining whether or not the person may be armed. Yes, guns are dangerous and harmful in the wrong hands. But every single human has the right to own the means to defend themselves. When you prohibit them from exercising that right you only empower the criminals that will ignore the law anyway.
Now I know what you're thinking. You're saying that if someone is a law-abiding citizen then they will have no problem getting a gun legally. However, that may hardly be the case. At least in the US, many people are deprived of the right to self-defense because they have been charged with a non-violent felony such as drug possession or trafficking aka exactly what most of us here on Silk Road do every day. Should those people become vulnerable to criminals? What about the people who live in places that are hostile to private gun ownership? Should they have to fear attack by muggers or gang members because they cannot legally attain the means to protect themselves? If they are attacked during a drug deal or they are a sex worker facing a violent customer will the police and legal system help them?
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Just wait till you see how the big crash in all levels of government employment and government handouts due to financial realty turn out. Layoffs are happening everywhere but at the federal level already.
Seen London lately? That is just a sample. Wait till roaming gangs looting and home invasion becomes the norm and not the exception.
Where will the cops be? Either in on it or at home protecting their families. With their guns.
Do you live in an area where a lot of people who never even considered not having these jobs or "entitlements" stripped from them in the middle of of depression live?
Do you want to be unarmed in that?
I'd send my kid to school armed under those conditions, if I were dumb enough to send a young developing mind to a big government indoctrination prison in the first place.
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Maybe I can help. I know quite a bit about firearms and laws surrounding firearms. Reading the thread, I think we all want the same thing - no guns in the hands of anyone irresponsible or mal-intentioned. However, since we're all on SR for the same reason, I suspect none of us has a problem facilitating the sale of guns or gun parts to responsible adults. The question would be how to achieve this. Believe it or not, laws provide some clarity here.
I propose...
1. No international shipping of any complete firearm. Keep it simple.
2. No pistol sales. Pistols cannot be legally transferred to another individual in nearly any state in the US without notifying appropriate law enforcement entities. Pistols are so tightly regulated, keep it simple.
3. No Class III firearms, such as short barrel rifles (SBRs). These require a special ATF process and even when legal, cannot generally be transferred out of one state to the next. So keep it simple.
4. No automatic or banned firearms. These would sell for several thousands of dollars anyway, so practically speaking, there's no point opening the door. Keep it simple.
Examples of legitimate firearm sales on SR...
a. Rifles (so long as it's not automatic, rule #4, or Class III like an SBR, rule #3). In many states there's no law that restricts individual sales of rifles from person to person anyway. Many states don't even track the initial sale from the manufacturer.
b. Firearm parts. Lightening links, suppressors, etc.
c. Uppers/Lowers. Generally goes along with rifles and firearm parts.
Anyhow, restricting the sale of pistols, allowing rifles but not auto or class III, I think achieves what we're all trying to do here. Facilitate the sale of firearms and firearm parts to enthusiasts and collectors and minimize collateral damage. I think some middle-ground can be achieved here.
“The plans differ; the planners are all alike...” — Frédéric Bastiat
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
— Frédéric Bastiat
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I think some middle-ground can be achieved here.
WTF....Please...., the first thing you have done is create a set of rules. We DO NOT want rules. By your position only a specific class of people can own guns. That is flawed. Yes...on one point, keep it simple.
We want the same weapons as the military and police, we want peace, we want actual justice, we want the current social system changed, and did I forget....we demand change.
Take a few weeks and read the work of Emma Goldman.
LOL! I hope you didn't vote as one of her best quotes was "If voting made a difference they would make it illegal."
Add Lysander Spooner, HL Mencken, Albert Jay Nock to that list.
I'm no objectivist (I'm an anarcho-capitalist) but Ayn Rands works do a great wonder to describe the corrosion of humanity that occurs under democracy.
Most important of all, if you really want to find the real villains here, read Ludwig Von Mises, Murray Rothbard, Tom Woods, Robert Murphy, Hans Herman Hoppe, Jorge Guido Hulsman, Andrew Napalitono and of course, the man who recently brought so many of these thinkers back into the awareness of the masses....Ron Paul.
Central control of what is defined as money is the root to strike at. It can be done peacefully (mostly, a dying beast WILL thrash around a bit first) by understanding REAL economics and how currency manipulation (a government/corporate partnership) has collected power AND CONSUMED a huge part of the worlds capital stock....wasted it instead of growing it just so they could own you and your bodies energies. And your grandchildrens. Theft through inflation. The redistribution (hidden service) of real wealth via the vehicle of forced bullshit devaluing every day script.
But more people are seeing it. Everyone knows something is up and a few assholes will organize and inspire mobs to attack the WRONG people...some poor shop owner who's only crime was to try to succeed in a world that is almost totally rigged. It does help keep the public eye redirected away from those who really understand and are adamantly trying to educate.
And it does a great job of fooling people into thinking what we have is capitalism when it is really corporatism, an evil impossible without the backing of a force seen as a legitimate monopoly on law and use of force. Capitalism is but a component within corporatism, it's the only good and decent part of it and before the ass hats came in and claimed that government has created civilization private property, specialization, production and trade had already done so, far better than the leeches who are ruining could.
Oh, I forgot Thorough in that list: "There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil for every one striking at the root.
In a world where no one has any legitimate reason save defense of person and property to act in aggression it won't matter WHAT we have access to. Saying that possession of C4 WILL lead to the initiation of aggression (rather than defense from the initiator) is like saying the possession of a penis WILL lead to a rape.
Change IS happening. Listen to those who have figured out how an (unqualified) elite has captured our souls and figure out how to WITHDRAW our support from their systems.
Add Sam Konkin to that list and look up Agorism and counter economics. That IS what we are engaging in here.
Well, we would be if the bitcoin were not so tied to the USD like every other form of money.
I didn't vote in this poll because I am done contributing to the mob rule mentality voting leads to.
But I will vote for Ron Paul if I get the chance. Not because I want a president or a government but because every bit of support he gets leads to more education on the root of the evil we are hiding from in here.
+1 Well said!!
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All this talk of arming yourselves for protection from gang members, looters, the government, [insert other oppressor] may be legitimate but the fact remains that there is only one single gun for sale on SR. This has been the case for days. You have made your point about allowing the sale of guns as a moral argument but I just feel that due to the extremely small amount of business it brings to SR that, all politics aside, it is almost a moot point.
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What is everybody alarmed about? 2 maybe 3 vendors on an obscure site selling extremely overpriced weapons. Please, I can purchase case's of fully automatic assault weapons in 45 seconds from any gun show in any state with case's of rounds of ammo to go along with it, no questions asked. I've done it. There's a gun show going on in every state, everyday at some point in this great country. Or a gun raffle put on by the VFW, Boy scouts, Fraternal Order of Police, Ladies Gun Clubs, and many other organizations too numerous to mention. The ATF ships guns to Mexico to track killings by cartel's. So don't get your bunghole in a knot over this, the people who want to get weapons are not going to wait for them to come in the mail while waiting for bitcoin escrow to finalize and leave feedback. And as for me, I'll be at a gun show in upstate New York this weekend where I'll be picking up a 1928 Thompson sub machine gun and a WWII era Browning Automatic Rifle or B.A.R for those of you who collect as I do, with enough ammo to start a small revolution. I love to blow stuff up at my range and don't come around my way without a good reason for being there. Semper Fi, Bikerbum
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I can purchase case's of fully automatic assault weapons in 45 seconds from any gun show in any state with case's of rounds of ammo to go along with it, no questions asked.
With respect, no you can't in terms of Class III or NFA items. That's what black markets are for. Sounds like you know that, and otherwise are correct. If I go to a show this weekend, I can buy a suppressor, but I also have a 90+ day wait with the ATF and LEC, not to mention paper trail, fingerprints (if registered to me), etc etc. Wouldn't it be nice if someone sold a suppressor (or suppressed weapon) here on SR, without Government involvement? I say yes.
Oh, and same goes for fully auto - can't get that at any show, unless it's pre-ban (80s) and $30k. What about an AR or AK from this year, converted or out of the box with swich auto? God I'd love an FN P90 - not the PS90 semi-auto 16" version. I mean the 10" switch auto military version. Try finding that at a show.
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No no no no and NO! Get rid of guns on SR. Selling illegal weapons is on a whole different level than selling drugs. Think about who could have access to purchasing these guns (basically ANYONE with a computer)...now some of you might or might not have kids who go to school...I think you know where I'm going with this. You DON'T know who is buying them, so DON'T sell them!
People sell heroin and other highly abused drugs here too. You don't think that some of those people are harmed as a consequence? You don't think that some of them are negligent or abusive parents as a result of their drug abuse?
Unfortunately there are bad people among us that use guns for evil purposes. The majority of them are employed by various world governments in the police and military. The rest of them love the fact that good people tend to comply with laws against guns. When surveyed, violent criminals say that their #1 concern when choosing a victim is determining whether or not the person may be armed. Yes, guns are dangerous and harmful in the wrong hands. But every single human has the right to own the means to defend themselves. When you prohibit them from exercising that right you only empower the criminals that will ignore the law anyway.
Now I know what you're thinking. You're saying that if someone is a law-abiding citizen then they will have no problem getting a gun legally. However, that may hardly be the case. At least in the US, many people are deprived of the right to self-defense because they have been charged with a non-violent felony such as drug possession or trafficking aka exactly what most of us here on Silk Road do every day. Should those people become vulnerable to criminals? What about the people who live in places that are hostile to private gun ownership? Should they have to fear attack by muggers or gang members because they cannot legally attain the means to protect themselves? If they are attacked during a drug deal or they are a sex worker facing a violent customer will the police and legal system help them?
I can definitely see your point of view Freeman, you are without a doubt right in many things. My opinion of guns is flawed and bias I will be the first to admit. I was part of the ex Yugoslavian war in the early 90s when I was a kid, then in the states I was in the Marines. I saw first hand not only family in yugoslavia but also friends in iraq and afghanistan gone from my life because of stupid wars. I know it sounds hypocritical considering I had a fully automatic gun in the service and was using it, but I truly know the power of a gun. That power in the wrong hands can cause some serious damage. I mean honestly think of how many people you see daily, in public, on tv, on the internet, etc, and then think just HOW MANY of these people are honestly intelligent enough to be able to use a gun properly aka (defending themselves). It's funny as Im typing this I just heard the lady on CNN say breaking news, a college somewhere in the US is locked down because of a shooter in there now. Like I couldn't have asked for better timing. I can tell you from first hand experience what it is like in ex yugoslavia now. Everyone has a gun there and problems are solved like this. Person A feels disrespected by Person B, Person A takes his gun and kills Person B. I know that sounds stupid and simple, but it honestly is like this.
Just think for every peaceful well tempered person, there is a person who can't control his temper. Example, guy breaks up with his gf, lets say you Freeman start dating her, and lets say this guy is a bad tempered person and he owns a gun. In that short moment of pure rage and hatred and jealousy, that ex bf just became a lethal weapon. Now you Freeman would be dead for simply approaching a girl who was single, yet you might not have had any contact with her ex bf ever. I mean I honestly could list hundreds of scenarios and I could list links of that scenario actually happening.
Like I was saying, I was infantry in the Marines, so without going into detail you can imagine what I was doing...
BUT...Now I also see your point. I'm sick of the government controlling what I can't put in my body and what I can't own or can own. If I want a gun, I SHOULD be able to have a gun, I agree 100% with you Freeman. I already had PTSD from my days as a kid before I ever joined the marines, somehow I passed their medical screening and that PTSD is worse now. I live in a state that has recently legalized Marijuana but due to the crazy fucking restrictions I can't get the meds I want. I don't want the pills that the doctors want to give me, not only because they are bad for your liver, but because I don't want those piece of shit prescription companies profiting off of me and my problem. Hence the reason I'm on SR, because it offers me a place to get the meds that SHOULD BE LEGAL ANYWAY (its a fucking natural plant), if it wasn't for SR, I'd be on fucking pills with crazy side effects while those piece of shit prescription companies profit off me.
If everyone had a gun, not just in the USA but all over the world, I honestly believe that it would be like the wild west. Because whether anyone on here wants to admit it or not, but I'd say more than 75% of the world is not intelligent which means they might not know right from wrong like someone with a clear mental state.
In the end the reason I don't want to see guns on SR isn't because I don't believe in people owning them, I DO, I think everyone has a right to own them(that is mentally fit). But guns are the governments number one threat to power, not drugs, so when you start selling something that threatens ''big brother'' well you can bet your ass they will do their best to shut it down, and I'm sure none of us here want SR shut down! Regardless of our opinions this is a very informative discussion, thanks to everyone who put in an intelligent opinion.
Btw...if you have a working brain people, vote for Ron Paul!
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^ +1 for erko.
I agree about many people not being responsible enough to own a gun and use it correctly, but that is a really hard argument to make. Who IS to say who's responsible enough? The government? You? Me? No fucking way. But for the same reason people shouldn't be able to buy plutonium or chemical weapons, guns are likely to be misused, and the consequences would be far higher than if some drug user overdoses. Freedom to do what you want to yourself (like take drugs) is one thing, but when that freedom includes fucking with other people (such as shooting them) I am against it.
Like erko said, if everyone owned a gun it would no doubt cause a lot more harm than good. But then again, who the hell is anyone to tell anyone that they can or can't own a gun? There is no right answer.
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erko78 +1
Thanks for sharing your story. I'm a veteran myself, though thankfully I never went through anything as painful as your own experiences. I know people that hate guns, have no interest in having guns, etc but who, like you, recognize that good or bad we should be wary of governments (aka the people with guns) telling everyone else who can and cannot have guns.
No matter your political positions, you might be interested in getting in touch with Iraq Veterans Against the War. They have volunteer mental health professionals in different places that will provide free services to veterans. There are also a number of opportunities through IVAW for retreats, training sessions, and socialization where you can meet others who are in the same situation as yourself; learning to cope with the traumas they've endured.
PTSD is an injury like any other, but unlike others there may be no physical signs of the pain or frustration. Like physical injuries, if it isn't treated it can fester and worsen.
Take care of yourself,
Freeman
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^ +1 for erko.
I agree about many people not being responsible enough to own a gun and use it correctly, but that is a really hard argument to make. Who IS to say who's responsible enough? The government? You? Me? No fucking way. But for the same reason people shouldn't be able to buy plutonium or chemical weapons, guns are likely to be misused, and the consequences would be far higher than if some drug user overdoses. Freedom to do what you want to yourself (like take drugs) is one thing, but when that freedom includes fucking with other people (such as shooting them) I am against it.
Like erko said, if everyone owned a gun it would no doubt cause a lot more harm than good. But then again, who the hell is anyone to tell anyone that they can or can't own a gun? There is no right answer.
Please take note of what I have bolded (consequences would be far higher than if some drug user overdoses). I would suggest this is a less than accurate statement. The probability for someone purchasing illicit substances here and getting behind the wheel and driving (which is deadly in and of itself) is quite high which can have just as dire consequences as someone who should not own, obtaining a firearm from SR. Both are equally deadly, it's not the object that is the problem it is who is in posession of it. This being said the whole purpose of SR is for anonymity so any form of screening like this would go against the sites ethos IMO.
While I can say I would prefer that guns not get into the wrong hands, and bad things didn't happen, unfortunately thats simply not how it works. Bad people do bad things, this will never change. I however would prefer to have access to firearms should I choose to purchase one here. I don't know how you would get it through the mail but thats another argument.
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not only because they are bad for your liver, but because I don't want those piece of shit prescription companies profiting off of me and my problem.
I'm trying to ween myself off my anti-depression and anti-anxiety medication right now. What they fail to tell you when they give it to you is you become chemically addicted to it. The withdrawal symptoms suck. Constant headaches, nausea, brain jolts, vertigo, depression/anxiety, and generally being spaced out and having no idea what the fuck is going on, like in a bad way - not a good spaced out like from weed.
Hell just last night I went to bed around midnight and woke up at 4pm the next day. Who the fuck does that???
I will give the devil its due and say the meds got me through the hard times, but there's got to be a better way than getting addicted to pills.
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guns are the governments number one threat to power, not drugs, so when you start selling something that threatens ''big brother'' well you can bet your ass they will do their best to shut it down
That's probably the best rationale in this thread for why not to sell guns on SR. Has nothing to do with who deserves to be able to buy guns, which seems to be the topic we keep going around and around on. I still think that even if SR bans the sale of guns, I'm interested in gun parts - like suppressors, lighting links, receivers, barrels, auto kits, etc. So hopefully whatever the outcome is of this excessive, I'll still be able to buy toys for my toys without upsetting the status quo or the LE... any more than we already have :)
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^ +1 for erko.
I agree about many people not being responsible enough to own a gun and use it correctly, but that is a really hard argument to make. Who IS to say who's responsible enough? The government? You? Me? No fucking way. But for the same reason people shouldn't be able to buy plutonium or chemical weapons, guns are likely to be misused, and the consequences would be far higher than if some drug user overdoses. Freedom to do what you want to yourself (like take drugs) is one thing, but when that freedom includes fucking with other people (such as shooting them) I am against it.
Like erko said, if everyone owned a gun it would no doubt cause a lot more harm than good. But then again, who the hell is anyone to tell anyone that they can or can't own a gun? There is no right answer.
You got that right man, there is no right answer :-/ regardless of the outcome one side will always be unhappy. My point was if you want SR to be around for a long time, keep the sales of guns off of it, if you keep them on you will guarantee LE involvement.
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erko78 +1
Thanks for sharing your story. I'm a veteran myself, though thankfully I never went through anything as painful as your own experiences. I know people that hate guns, have no interest in having guns, etc but who, like you, recognize that good or bad we should be wary of governments (aka the people with guns) telling everyone else who can and cannot have guns.
No matter your political positions, you might be interested in getting in touch with Iraq Veterans Against the War. They have volunteer mental health professionals in different places that will provide free services to veterans. There are also a number of opportunities through IVAW for retreats, training sessions, and socialization where you can meet others who are in the same situation as yourself; learning to cope with the traumas they've endured.
PTSD is an injury like any other, but unlike others there may be no physical signs of the pain or frustration. Like physical injuries, if it isn't treated it can fester and worsen.
Take care of yourself,
Freeman
Hey thank you for the suggestions, I'm currently attending something very similar, I'm also helping out recent veterans that have come home and honestly that has helped more than any doctor so far. It's just refreshing to be able to sit in a room with a bunch of guys who went through things like I did, there is no shyness or awkwardness, everyone is honest and open about their mental(some even physical) problems. Also big props to you for being an ex veteran, you have my respect sir! If it wasn't for the discipline and integrity the military taught me, I don't know what kind of person I would be. As of right now I'm trying hard to get medical marijuana in my state, but it's a grueling process. If I don't? Well fuck it, I'll be buying my MJ medicine off of SR haha :)
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^ +1 for erko.
I agree about many people not being responsible enough to own a gun and use it correctly, but that is a really hard argument to make. Who IS to say who's responsible enough? The government? You? Me? No fucking way. But for the same reason people shouldn't be able to buy plutonium or chemical weapons, guns are likely to be misused, and the consequences would be far higher than if some drug user overdoses. Freedom to do what you want to yourself (like take drugs) is one thing, but when that freedom includes fucking with other people (such as shooting them) I am against it.
Like erko said, if everyone owned a gun it would no doubt cause a lot more harm than good. But then again, who the hell is anyone to tell anyone that they can or can't own a gun? There is no right answer.
Please take note of what I have bolded (consequences would be far higher than if some drug user overdoses). I would suggest this is a less than accurate statement. The probability for someone purchasing illicit substances here and getting behind the wheel and driving (which is deadly in and of itself) is quite high which can have just as dire consequences as someone who should not own, obtaining a firearm from SR. Both are equally deadly, it's not the object that is the problem it is who is in posession of it. This being said the whole purpose of SR is for anonymity so any form of screening like this would go against the sites ethos IMO.
While I can say I would prefer that guns not get into the wrong hands, and bad things didn't happen, unfortunately thats simply not how it works. Bad people do bad things, this will never change. I however would prefer to have access to firearms should I choose to purchase one here. I don't know how you would get it through the mail but thats another argument.
That's exactly what I was trying to say, it's not the guns that are the problem. I mean I know I can't be the only one who loves shooting guns for fun at the range or something, but in the wrong hands they can be deadly, make no mistake about that. I understand and respect your view, but you saying you should have an option of buying a gun on here if you want to, and you have every right. But let me hit you with this scenario. ANYONE can join SR, and that's LITERALLY ANYONE, from a 12 year old to a 90 year old, SR has no boundaries. What if one day a real gang banger puts up a gun for sale and you buy it, then months later the FBI storms your house because you are in possession of a gun that has been used to murder people. I'm sure you are thinking, ''well duh but why would they look for me when I'm in a different state", to which I can answer, you are absolutely right. BUT WHAT IF, one day your house is on fire and it's found in the wreckage, or you are driving with it and get pulled over, or the way too common scenario, the ex gf who you just broke up with and she wants to get her revenge. Now you are stuck with a weapon that has murdered someone and you are a suspect and if you don't have a lot of money for a good lawyer you will be sitting in jail for one simple mistake you made in life, in the end it causes MANY more problems!
Also this is for the USA people only, it is VERY VERY VERY easy to get a license to own a gun, it honestly is much less of a hassle to get a real gun license than it is to buy one illegally, think about that people. Then if you want to make it auto, or buy suppressors, then buy that stuff off of SR :)
Like I said before, I'm no way saying anyone here is wrong, I'm just trying to inject more thought into this matter, I respect everyones opinion in here!
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not only because they are bad for your liver, but because I don't want those piece of shit prescription companies profiting off of me and my problem.
I'm trying to ween myself off my anti-depression and anti-anxiety medication right now. What they fail to tell you when they give it to you is you become chemically addicted to it. The withdrawal symptoms suck. Constant headaches, nausea, brain jolts, vertigo, depression/anxiety, and generally being spaced out and having no idea what the fuck is going on, like in a bad way - not a good spaced out like from weed.
Hell just last night I went to bed around midnight and woke up at 4pm the next day. Who the fuck does that???
I will give the devil its due and say the meds got me through the hard times, but there's got to be a better way than getting addicted to pills.
There are better ways, but then your doctor and the prescription companies wouldn't profit off of you :). Marijuana has been studied medically for years and in many cases it can help patients with depression and anxiety. I have PTSD and anxiety and it helps me, and I know I sound like a stoner trying to vouch for marijuana, but it HONESTLY helps me. I too have had a bad pill addiction, I'm not ashamed to say it because if I can help someone avoid the road I went, then I can go to sleep knowing I did a good deed today! I used to pop pills like it was nothing, eventually one day I was in the kitchen grabbing some water and that is the last thing I remembered, when I woke up they told me my blood pressure was 205 and that what I had is very close to a stroke. I honestly couldn't even believe that now almost 2 years later I'm completely healthy. I'm not a doctor so I can't tell you what to try for your anxiety and depression, I can suggest marijuana but it could also make it worse, one thing I can suggest to you is exercise or find a sport you like and find a group that plays casually a few times a week/month. Since I've been back from the marines, I've joined an MMA club as all my life I've loved contact sports, I started off not knowing nothing, and now 2 years later I'm fighting pro and I'm currently undefeated. Just the daily training helps my brain relax, also during and after exercise your body releases a chemical that tells your brain to relax and be euphoric. WHATEVER YOU CHOOSE TO DO, please man stay away from those pills, because like you said, their addiction and coming off of it, is like hell.
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A strong debate is brewing in here. Whatever the outcome, I'm glad SR has such a great community...
I need to poast more often :(
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This is a good thread with many well reasoned responses. I am proud to be part of a community that thinks so well. Big kudos to all my people. That said I voted no - do not take guns off the road. Why? It's very simple - fuck them. It seems most responses are based off a fear that this will get shut down. I repeat - fuck them. This is our world - own it and take control. I refuse to let some person or government dictate my actions. You want me asshole - come get me - I'm strapped with a fantastic mind and 10 lbs of C4. I'll kill us all. Hehe. Peace and love (kindof). Haha.
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I really don't care, I think everyone have the right to self-defense, especially against the government. But this kind of commerce could bring some problem to us. I think the best way is a specific forum for this kind of products. Leave silkroad just with our "peace products".
When all guns were owned by the
Government, it will decide who is the owner of the other properties.
Benjamin Franklin
I don't know if this is the right quote in English.
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"A gun and a full box of ammo in every house." - I'm sure somebody said it. I'd like to see a better selection and lower prices. Where's the uproar about that?
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It's very simple - fuck them. It seems most responses are based off a fear that this will get shut down. I repeat - fuck them. This is our world - own it and take control. I refuse to let some person or government dictate my actions. You want me asshole - come get me - I'm strapped with a fantastic mind and 10 lbs of C4. I'll kill us all. Hehe. Peace and love (kindof). Haha.
+1
I'm a winner. And winners do what they want. It. feels good to go fast.
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No wonder people call cops "pigs." They're not gov't employees here to help, they're an occupying army.
You are not off topic....
As a law student, I have looked at old U.S. Supreme Court cases (1800 era) dealing with murdering and killing cops. At one time, killing a cop was justifiable if it could be established that one’s life was in peril or threatened. In essence, the citizen was entrusted with a certain amount of community responsibility, and could be trusted to maintain law and order without the “occupying army.” Things changed for the worse, giving unbridled authority to this “occupying army” to murder, rape, plant evidence, fabricate crimes and molest and abuse the innocent.
Guns offered on SR are one tool to allow the disenfranchised the chance to reclaim an assemblance justice, and as I hope, equal the scales of injustice, just a bit, with the justifiable homicide of the “occupying army.”
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@drp2p
That was a beautifully succinct expression of what the second amendment is all about. Armed citizens can maintain the peace better than any standing army. We have let America grow into a twisted shadow of what it might be, mainly through the cowardice of people like those who are against guns for fear that the attention will cause the standing army to shut down the drug market. We have a right to both, but unless we exercise those rights, we lose all rights. Props!
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No wonder people call cops "pigs." They're not gov't employees here to help, they're an occupying army.
You are not off topic....
As a law student, I have looked at old U.S. Supreme Court cases (1800 era) dealing with murdering and killing cops. At one time, killing a cop was justifiable if it could be established that one’s life was in peril or threatened. In essence, the citizen was entrusted with a certain amount of community responsibility, and could be trusted to maintain law and order without the “occupying army.” Things changed for the worse, giving unbridled authority to this “occupying army” to murder, rape, plant evidence, fabricate crimes and molest and abuse the innocent.
Guns offered on SR are one tool to allow the disenfranchised the chance to reclaim an assemblance justice, and as I hope, equal the scales of injustice, just a bit, with the justifiable homicide of the “occupying army.”
+ 10
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Still only 1 gun for sale.
Looks like nobody cares about their families or else they would have bought it.
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guns are not an issue.
you can do the same thing at any gun show with a drivers license.
no one (but you detractors) are complaining about guns.
they are complaining about the drugs.
i voted no - to leave the firearms on SR
Exactly what he said :)
I voted no it's a good item to have it doesn't mean your going to go murder someone it's just a collection.
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With changes being made to assist sellers in combating degenerate buyers, I will soon be listing firearms. Primarily small handguns. The logistics behind this are more complex than drugs, so there will be a significant premium over buying a firearm legally. For those whom there is no legal way, then this is the only way. This is THE most expensive way to buy a gun, so there is no reason to do it unless you absolutely have to. In some cases, maybe more than 100% premium will have to be added. But I know what I'm doing and it will be untraceable. I will describe the details only to actual buyers via GPG on SR messaging. Unencrypted messages will be ignored for both of our safety.
I'm also working on high-velocity hardened steel AP Rifle Ammo, for those being assailed by degenerates wearing body armor. This doesn't work for handguns, despite what the propagandists might tell you... Handguns just don't develop the power to push an AP bullet hard enough to be useful. The 'argument' that the FN FiveseveN is a 'cop killer' or is 'armor piercing' is a damn lie. Making a 9mm bullet out of steel definitely won't do the job either...
Science, Math, and Common-Sense > Propaganda, Agenda Politics, and dumbasses parroting the same.
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The 'argument' that the FN FiveseveN is a 'cop killer' or is 'armor piercing' is a damn lie.
Not sure where you're getting your facts, or you're just confusing variants of the same round. The SS190 and EA bullets have a steel penetrator and an aluminum core. Civilian variants (probably what you're talking about) have a lead core, even those with hardend steel penetrator FMJ. The EA round has a muzzle velocity of 2570 fps with muzzle energy of 411 ft/lbs. Just about every test ever conducted has shown the SS190 and EA (S4 and T6) penetrate level II armor, and I've seen first hand the EA T6 penetrate level III armor like it was a block of cheese. While it ain't no AR, it sure as hell ain't no 9mm either. Jus' sayin.
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... Jus' sayin.
Who the fuck cares?
Personally, I would like to see a seller offer 1000 Barrett 50 Caliber rifles, Model 82A1®/M107® at $500.00 USD to anyone proving disenfranchisment from owning a weapon, with of course, 100 complementary Armor-piercing incendiary tracer (APIT) rounds. If not that, at the very least for sale, 1000 Russian Dragunov SVD sniper rifles with 100 complementary rounds of 7.62x54mm (APIT) ammo. Also, offer a $20.00 gift card good at StarBucks for every oppressor neutralized.
Power to the PEOPLE....
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... Jus' sayin.
Who the fuck cares?
Personally, I would like to see a seller offer 1000 Barrett 50 Caliber rifles, Model 82A1®/M107® at $500.00 USD to anyone proving disenfranchisment from owning a weapon, with of course, 100 complementary Armor-piercing incendiary tracer (APIT) rounds. If not that, at the very least for sale, 1000 Russian Dragunov SVD sniper rifles with 100 complementary rounds of 7.62x54mm (APIT) ammo. Also, offer a $20.00 gift card good at StarBucks for every oppressor neutralized.
Power to the PEOPLE....
No need to be rude, dude. Are you just trolling? Because that is a ridiculous request. Who needs guns when you have satanic curses anyway? Perhaps if you quit obsessing over your oppression you would find that there are plenty of freedoms not being impinged upon. What precisely is it that you want to do but are unable to because of your oppressors?
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What precisely is it that you want to do but are unable to because of your oppressors?
LOL...
Dear Freddie,
From the Flintstone era you have emerged complete with a devolved social perspective. So, let me guess, you have emerged from under your rock with this notion that society is really good, safe, and just only if the po-po poses all the guns and tools of social balance (weapons).
Get a fuck’n grip you uneducated oaf and social reprobate.... the U.S. and the UK are systems that have evolved on war, injustice, crime, genocide, and murder.
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No need to be rude, dude. Are you just trolling? Because that is a ridiculous request. Who needs guns when you have satanic curses anyway? Perhaps if you quit obsessing over your oppression you would find that there are plenty of freedoms not being impinged upon. What precisely is it that you want to do but are unable to because of your oppressors?
Think about it. He's either an 18 year old degenerate with a gun addiction, or brilliantly representing the polar extreme on this forum. Frankly, we need all three sides for a good discussion, but the question remains if SR is anarchistic or just libertarian. Does SR allow the sale of anything to anyone? Or does SR filter to some other flavor of politics? Or does it just come down to the owner's own beliefs and personal intentions?
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What precisely is it that you want to do but are unable to because of your oppressors?
LOL...
Dear Freddie,
From the Flintstone era you have emerged complete with a devolved social perspective. So, let me guess, you have emerged from under your rock with this notion that society is really good, safe, and just only if the po-po poses all the guns and tools of social balance (weapons).
Get a fuck’n grip you uneducated oaf and social reprobate.... the U.S. and the UK are systems that have evolved on war, injustice, crime, genocide, and murder.
Seriously though, how are you oppressed? I'd really like to hear an answer to that question. Maybe if you stopped spending your life crying about how fucked up everything is you will realize it has always been and always be fucked up no matter who is running the show. Your idealistic bullshit about how arming people will solve any problems is some pathetic dream. You bitch like a fat gothic chick about the woes of society.
I never said this nation is safe or good or anything like that. In fact, I know it is fucked up. People in general are fucked up. A bunch of stupid animals that don't know how to be happy - and no gun or explosive is going to change that.
Keep reading your Pennoyer v. Neff, law student. And keep dreaming that because you're in law school you're special - I've been where you are and I didn't flaunt it in people's faces like a pretentious prick.
I have a devolved social perspective? I'm an uneducated oaf? Believe what you want if it makes you feel better, just don't don't call me freddy.
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The 'argument' that the FN FiveseveN is a 'cop killer' or is 'armor piercing' is a damn lie.
Not sure where you're getting your facts, or you're just confusing variants of the same round. The SS190 and EA bullets have a steel penetrator and an aluminum core. Civilian variants (probably what you're talking about) have a lead core, even those with hardend steel penetrator FMJ. The EA round has a muzzle velocity of 2570 fps with muzzle energy of 411 ft/lbs. Just about every test ever conducted has shown the SS190 and EA (S4 and T6) penetrate level II armor, and I've seen first hand the EA T6 penetrate level III armor like it was a block of cheese. While it ain't no AR, it sure as hell ain't no 9mm either. Jus' sayin.
Because, in spite of what you think you know, none of the 5.7x28 rounds develop sufficient velocity out of the FiveseveN Handgun's short barrel.
Even the pathetic Armor Piercing rounds only achieve high enough velocities when fired from the P90. The test results you speak of a from firing this round from the P90, not the FiveseveN.
Not knowing how guns work is a contributing factor to this misinformation. The round, especially this round, varies greatly based on barrel length.
I get my information from decades of experience in both operation and design.
In a handgun, the 5.7x28 round is only marginally more effective than a .22 Magnum. That's why Kel Tec made the PMR-30...
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What precisely is it that you want to do but are unable to because of your oppressors?
LOL...
Dear Freddie,
From the Flintstone era you have emerged complete with a devolved social perspective. So, let me guess, you have emerged from under your rock with this notion that society is really good, safe, and just only if the po-po poses all the guns and tools of social balance (weapons).
Get a fuck’n grip you uneducated oaf and social reprobate.... the U.S. and the UK are systems that have evolved on war, injustice, crime, genocide, and murder.
Seriously though, how are you oppressed?
This question is a distraction, and a deliberate one. The USA is a society built on carnage. As a collective, we're dumb as shit. We've lost all of our freedom EXCEPT our guns. And what good are they now?
That isn't the point.
The fact is, we've got guns. That means we can sell them to you. Or each other. The USA is not one big gun store. There are plenty of places here where US Citizens are forbidden to possess firearms.
And, due to the fact that our society is all about "kill everyone, take their shit" it is only natural that these places have astronomical crime/murder rates... The majority of our population has but one marketable skill; the ability to screw over our neighbors and take their stuff.
Look at our education system! It's nothing but political indoctrination and deliberately trying to keep people stupid so they'll vote as told. It doesn't take much effort to figure out why the USA is so violent, and it has nothing to do with guns. We're taught to act like pirates from birth, to hate knowledge and learning... Common-Sense is illegal here! What do you think is going to happen?
Those of us that are civilised and intelligent to rise above that, are severely punished on a social level. A majority of the population really is out to get us, for how dare we set an example of something better... And below that, the underlying fact that everyone here is out to get everyone else. We don't do anything useful. Just hack away at each other and call it the American Dream... You can have it. Dumb as all fuck.
I repeat myself: The fact is, we've got guns. That means we can sell them to you. If you don't want one, don't buy one! Yay free market!
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This question is a distraction, and a deliberate one. The USA is a society built on carnage. As a collective, we're dumb as shit. We've lost all of our freedom EXCEPT our guns. And what good are they now?
Wow. Don't sell that guy a gun.
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... The USA is a society built on carnage. As a collective, we're dumb as shit. We've lost all of our freedom EXCEPT our guns. And what good are they now?
Well said Captain...
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This question is a distraction, and a deliberate one. The USA is a society built on carnage. As a collective, we're dumb as shit. We've lost all of our freedom EXCEPT our guns. And what good are they now?
"This question is a distraction, and a deliberate one."
I'd say it is a fair question. On a personal level, how are you oppressed?
"The USA is a society built on carnage."
Okay, so the USA is a society built on carnage. What society isn't built on the destruction of a previous society? You want guns in order to overthrow the government and create a new government which will be... built on carnage?
"We have lost all out freedom EXCEPT our guns."
This is not true on any level at all. In fact, guns are one of the few freedoms we have that actually are restricted. Along with drugs.
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... On a personal level, how are you oppressed?
The age of enlightenment was an era that saw the likes of Hume, Goethe, Madison and Jefferson (sticking to the Americana tone), (and later Marx and Engels for my German friends) to name a few. What this enlightenment suggested was that reason would govern the behavior of humans for the purpose of giving individuals the innate ability to understand freedom in the face of monarchy (or any social oppressor). (I am keeping it simple due to this forum).
With that said American zealots, puritans, and dogmatic Christian fools, preceded to move west with providential ambitions, thinking that was the essence of enlightenment to conquer land. They oppressed the indigenous population with a genocide (the American Holocaust at over 10 million lives), as they battled, in their words, the savages.
Meanwhile, Blacks from Africa whose slave labor built America were continually repressed for their innate desire to experience freedom and enlightenment. Fast-forward a few years, (not many) and we see the Chinese who were enslaved to build the American railroads, this helped the oppressors move west. Fast forward a few more years, the Mexicans were killed for their land; followed by out of the way places such as Hawaii or the Philippines which were forced to be subjected to the white American experience of oppression. Fast forward a few more years, countries like Vietnam experienced the oppression of the white American experience also (think Vietnam war). Following history (and I am overlooking thousands of other terroristic activates by America), we see the terrorist behavior throughout Central and South America during the 1970 – 1990s. We see the lies that precede a genocide in the oppression found in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Palestine and the (Soon to be) next American war in Iran.
While this was/is on going, the malefactors (American oppressors) targeted non-whites in the homeland of America with the prison industrial complex. Cops are instructed (implicitly and explicitly) to target Blacks, American Indians, Hispanics, and non-whites for the purposes of filling prisons.
So...Freddie, a typical white-boy with a dim view of the real world, go to school. You will never see oppression in your white world, white existence, or white understanding. Join the insurrection...kill a few cops...and work to change society for the better.
Finally Freddie...anyone, non-white or white who has seen, experienced in any way the "American Dream" or prison, abuse by cop, forced to fight an illegal war...knows oppression.
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... On a personal level, how are you oppressed?
While this was/is on going, the malefactors (American oppressors) targeted non-whites in the homeland of America with the prison industrial complex. Cops are instructed (implicitly and explicitly) to target Blacks, American Indians, Hispanics, and non-whites for the purposes of filling prisons.
So...Freddie, a typical white-boy with a dim view of the real world, go to school. You will never see oppression in your white world, white existence, or white understanding. Join the insurrection...kill a few cops...and work to change society for the better.
Finally Freddie...anyone, non-white or white who has seen, experienced in any way the "American Dream" or prison, abuse by cop, forced to fight an illegal war...knows oppression.
While It would be foolish to call you wrong for citing the racist concepts at work, it is also a narrow view. All that you describe is now directed at anyone who thinks that Basic Human Rights, and the Constitution created to protect them, are a good idea. It isn't limited to race anymore. It is a much broader assault now.
3%ers get it. The rest are either too unintelligent to understand, or too selfish and afraid to take action. Followers content to be slaves are unaffected, so they don't understand what all the fuss is about.
I can't deny that I get a warm feeling inside every time I hear about a cop being killed. This isn't just a Black Man's War anymore. I'd be overjoyed to know that some of my ammo was used for doing it. Police have become an occupying army that rarely answers to anyone, doing as they please to whomever they please. It isn't even news anymore.
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So...Freddie, a typical white-boy with a dim view of the real world, go to school. You will never see oppression in your white world, white existence, or white understanding. Join the insurrection...kill a few cops...and work to change society for the better.
Finally Freddie...anyone, non-white or white who has seen, experienced in any way the "American Dream" or prison, abuse by cop, forced to fight an illegal war...knows oppression.
Who ever said I was white? I'm not. You think I haven't dealt with abuse by cops? I have. You seem to base a lot on incorrect and misguided assumptions. As for your "enlightened" friend Jefferson, he had slaves! First you say the "United States is built on carnage", then you use Jefferson (who wrote the principles of the foundation of the United States) and Madison as positive examples? Your story sounds like that of a kid who has been in the education system with a view of the world built on books rather than real life experience.
You speak about an "enlightened" time when everyone had it good - that never existed. I won't get into a history lesson, but damn near every religion has either persecuted or been persecuted all throughout time. The major difference now is we have media that can cover all the awful shit that happens, shedding light on things that have always gone unreported.
"Join the insurrection...kill a few cops...and work to change society for the better."
I have a hard time believing anyone who would say this is out of their teenage years. This is a very childish remark.
"Finally Freddie...anyone, non-white or white who has seen, experienced in any way the "American Dream" or prison, abuse by cop, forced to fight an illegal war...knows oppression."
If oppression is getting hassled by a cop or "forced to fight an illegal war" (hasn't happened since the Vietnam war, which was certainly too long ago for you to have been alive) then you need to try a little harder.
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Yeah there's always been a lot of romanticizing of America's beginnings, especially when it comes to government. A lot of the founding fathers were liars and crooks, and Americans didn't have any amount of freedom thanks to them. Yes they fought a foreign oppressor, but they fought so that they could become the oppressor. One of the reasons the revolution occurred was because of taxes. What was the first thing the American government did after coming to power? Create new taxes. They also refused to pay soldiers their promised wages, and even had the balls to seize their land after the soldiers couldn't pay.
Freedom never came from those men. It came from those who truly represented the people. Remember the Whiskey Rebellion, or when Revolutionary veterans marched on the capitol and forced congress to flee for their lives? THOSE are the men we owe our thanks to, not to men like Washington, or that prick of a president that signed the Alien and Sedition Act.
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Who ever said I was white? I'm not...
Good evening Freddie,
Your buttons are easily pushed...
Being “white” does not mean a specific phenotype. White is a construct, a state of mind, an oppressive way to think and to be. Supreme Court Justice C. Thomas is a typical “white-boy,” President Obama is white. Based upon your thread as you have presented it in this forum, you are white. In contrast, a non-white is one that can’t be an accepted member of the mainstream culture for any number of reasons, skin color, or economic status. A wealthy African-American is treated differently than a poor African-American, and while the wealthy A-A is treated differently that his poverty stricken Brother, the wealthy A-A is still treated differently then the top of the food chain...the Anglo-American.
The simplistic notion that the dominant culture has is indicative of the white – mindset. This mindset refuses to see their own destructive nature, which is a nature that is willing to commit genocide and say it is noble and good.
Build a real democracy...gun and butter for everyone.
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What are you guys even arguing about anymore? We all know the government should be dismantled, humans weren't meant to live like this. It is totally inevitable that the way the world has looked for about the past few centuries is going to come crashing down.
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Who ever said I was white? I'm not...
Good evening Freddie,
Your buttons are easily pushed...
Being “white” does not mean a specific phenotype. White is a construct, a state of mind, an oppressive way to think and to be. Supreme Court Justice C. Thomas is a typical “white-boy,” President Obama is white. Based upon your thread as you have presented it in this forum, you are white. In contrast, a non-white is one that can’t be an accepted member of the mainstream culture for any number of reasons, skin color, or economic status. A wealthy African-American is treated differently than a poor African-American, and while the wealthy A-A is treated differently that his poverty stricken Brother, the wealthy A-A is still treated differently then the top of the food chain...the Anglo-American.
White may not be the best word to use when referring to a state of mind - there are plenty of white people who are not oppressors. I have a lot of good friends who are white and for me to call them oppressors would be a backwards thing to do. I'm all about eliminating oppression, but using race as a way to classify and differentiate people is not the answer. You say "white is a construct, a state of mind, an oppressive way to think and to be" and then you say I'm white? All I have done is disagree with you and explain why. If that makes me white then what are you? Black? Yellow? It doesn't matter what color your skin is because I don't judge someone on their skin color.
The simplistic notion that the dominant culture has is indicative of the white – mindset. This mindset refuses to see their own destructive nature, which is a nature that is willing to commit genocide and say it is noble and good.
Build a real democracy...gun and butter for everyone.
So what would you call the Africans who sold their fellow blacks into the slave trade? White? Is Pol Pot white? The Hutu people in Rwanda? There are plenty of non-whites who oppress, destroy and commit genocide.
If you really want to change the world for the better, how about promoting equality instead of calling everyone a white devil, handing them a gun and telling them to go kill a cop? I have a hard time understanding how that will do any good, aside from giving the government a good excuse for hauling your ass to prison.
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The only way you can "promote equality" is by recognizing that all men are born equal, having the same set of inalienable negative rights. Anything else outside of that draws lines and creates groups and pits one section of society against another.
Killing ANYBODY is wrong unless your life is in danger - your right to your own life and body is sacred. Doesn't matter if it's a cop or a kid or some manager at a fast food place. They all have the same inalienable rights you have.
A lot of the modern day "knowledge" of the slave era in the US is pretty off-base. What you don't ever hear about anymore is that a huge portion of the slaves were actually "indentured servants" (look it up), and that over half of the blacks taken from africa (I have read some historic accounts of over 80%) were sold by conquering tribes to the European slave traders. Of course it is all wrong, but it just goes to show what man is capable of. I'm an anarcho-capitalist, I KNOW there is a percentage of the population that is deranged, sociopathic, etc.
But instead of trying to re-write human nature a realistic approach is necessary. Allowing people to exercise their right to protecting their property and body is one of those things - it is hardwired into human nature and nothing you or anyone else says is going to change that. It's a lot less likely you will get into a career in bank robbery if every bank you try to rob is full of people who have guns and something to lose (no FDIC ) - from 1840 - 1892 there were only 12 bank robbery attempts in the "Wild West". There are more bank robbery attempts in virtually any single state in the US in half a year.
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You can go to walmart or any other 'mart' and buy a gun. Why do they need to be sold on SR? What type of gun are you looking for? If it's something that can be traced back to you then why do you want it? Protection? Nay.. you can get that from the walmart piece.. black market guns are bad, and of no use to regular people who want to sit in their house and get high.. selling black market guns ins bad and like someone else mentioned a good what to get LE crawling up your ass..
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That may be but in some countries (mine) you still go to jail even if you are defending your own life or that of your family and use a firearm to do it (even if it's legal). A firearm registered in your own name could be nothing but your own. A firearm with no registration could belong to the person who attempted to do harm to me and mine, and I somehow got it away and shot him.
Also by registering for anything you are consenting under statutory contract that you SHOULD be licensed/regulated/permittted or not to do anything by the state -i.e. that their right to decide supercedes your right to live peacefully. If I could go to Walmart and grab one without registering you bet your ass I would.
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black market guns are bad...
No. If a society is to claim equality and justice as a foundational function for existance, then either no guns at all, or everyone has guns.
As someone mentioned, killing is wrong. In a perfect world, we might argue on who has the best weed, yet leave as friends, high and happy. However, we live in a world of injustice put on place by individuals who have used sick ideologies as a way to maintain hegemony. This segments of society have guns, have explosives, have WMDs, and the desire to use these devices at a whim for little or no provocation. SR is an idea that will thrive, and give those who are disenfranchised the chance to buy peace of mind.
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I originally posted in favor of selling guns on SR but I think I've changed my mind. Most things you can buy on here is intended for personal use and does not pose any inherent risk to others. Selling guns crosses that line. Guns are designed to inflict harm on others. It also causes added negative attention to this place. If someone OD's that's their issue. If someone shoots up a school with a gun purchased here, isnt SR partially responsible?
Same here. I voted in favor of selling guns here, but I changed after reading a few posts here.
_\|/_
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You can go to walmart or any other 'mart' and buy a gun. Why do they need to be sold on SR? What type of gun are you looking for? If it's something that can be traced back to you then why do you want it? Protection? Nay.. you can get that from the walmart piece.. black market guns are bad, and of no use to regular people who want to sit in their house and get high.. selling black market guns ins bad and like someone else mentioned a good what to get LE crawling up your ass..
Stopthelies - not everyone can go into a walmart and buy a gun (convicted felons for instance), and not all of us are in countries where they have 'marts' or even guns openly for sale. Governments monopolize power by keeping weapons out of the hands of persons or groups that they perceive as a threat. This community has the capacity to affect this balance (albeit on a small, personal scale). Buying drugs off the street is one thing - there's always a guy on the corner. But how many arms dealers do you know? I'm not into violence man, and would never go looking for trouble. However, should a bad situation arise I want the capacity to protect me and mine - and I shouldn't have to ask permission. Just saying.
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No. If a society is to claim equality and justice as a foundational function for existance, then either no guns at all, or everyone has guns.
As someone mentioned, killing is wrong. In a perfect world, we might argue on who has the best weed, yet leave as friends, high and happy. However, we live in a world of injustice put on place by individuals who have used sick ideologies as a way to maintain hegemony. This segments of society have guns, have explosives, have WMDs, and the desire to use these devices at a whim for little or no provocation. SR is an idea that will thrive, and give those who are disenfranchised the chance to buy peace of mind.
You sound like a broken record.
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I like guns. So what! I like to buy guns. No problems. Who cares if I own one? Who cares where I buy one? YOU? Go fuck yourself and mind your own business. Simple.
I like drugs. So what! I like to buy drugs. No problems. Who cares if I buy drugs? Who cares where I buy drugs? YOU? Go fuck yourself and mind your own business.
Who cares and mind your own business works in a lot of different situations. Quit being a nosey motherfucker and live your life. Quit trying to control mine.
MORE CONTRABAND ON SR!!!
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You sound like a broken record.
Fortunately, watching some hate-monger get smacked down with the truth never gets old.
BTW, I'm up and in business now on the SR. I haz pretty gunz! Buy dem!
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"SR is my only hope for not starving to death, or the nanny state".
Start a fricken business. there is ALWAYS money to be made if you have brains and balls. I started my own businesses while I was still in high school and made it through post-secondary without taking a dime in loans while all my friends were paying theirs off for 10 years after. That sentence you wrote is such a cop-out from life it's insane. Use this mind-power you find so incredible and make something happen - if you are smarter than your employers than compete with them and beat their entire business into oblivion by out-competing and out-innovating them.
Otherwise it just comes down to being scared of a little blood, sweat, and tears. Hard work sucks, I know, but it pays off if you keep at it and find even a partially-"right" thing.
Not that I'm discounting what you're doing on here at all - it's honorable. But you dont' have to use the padded margins created by restriction and prohibition to be successful. My family is full of successful entrepreneurs that HATE the state, but still do "legitimate" business.
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Otherwise it just comes down to being scared of a little blood, sweat, and tears. Hard work sucks, I know, but it pays off if you keep at it and find even a partially-"right" thing.
I'm not afraid of work. Hell, nothing beats the satisfaction of a hard thing done. Blisters, blood, broken bones, etc... My issue is customers that never pay.
Hard work does not suck. I enjoy it. But getting screwed all the time sucks. When you only get paid for about 20% of the work you do, it doesn't lead to prosperity.
I work even when I see the screw coming, just because I'm bored and want something to do.
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I like guns. So what! I like to buy guns. No problems. Who cares if I own one? Who cares where I buy one? YOU? Go fuck yourself and mind your own business. Simple.
I like drugs. So what! I like to buy drugs. No problems. Who cares if I buy drugs? Who cares where I buy drugs? YOU? Go fuck yourself and mind your own business.
Who cares and mind your own business works in a lot of different situations. Quit being a nosey motherfucker and live your life. Quit trying to control mine.
MORE CONTRABAND ON SR!!!
+1
You are immediately my favorite person on here. Fantastic man.
DiMiTri
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Thanks DiMiTriSpice. I am my favorite person too, lol. ;D
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MORE CONTRABAND ON SR!!!
I see we are winning the debate....
What's wrong Freddie?
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Oh boys!! We got this one!! Let's shoot our FREEDOM guns in the air. BANG! BANG! BANG! WHOOOOO! That was great! Let's go target practice, clean our guns then go the strip club. Want to?
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That was great! Let's go target practice, clean our guns then go the strip club. Want to?
Every weekend!
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Hey, wait,......we didn't just shoot those STRAIGHT up did we? Oh shit!
You'd have to be in lower Manhattan or have the worst luck in the world to hit someone, or something in the air.
The same frequency with with people kill themselves or others cleaning their guns.......it happens. VERY infrequently when compared to how much handling guns get overall.
Now taking target practice at strippers I have issues with.
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No, they come with me and shoot nekkid. The shockwaves are cool.
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I see we are winning the debate....
What's wrong Freddie?
I'll tell you whats wrong. To be honest, the real reason I didn't want you all to buy guns was so I could oppress you. I was also hoping to rob every one of you and possibly steal your wives and children.
Maybe I should get my "white", oppressive ass out of here seeing as I happened to start a debate where everyone on the opposing side either has or wants an illegal gun. Or I could just buy all... 2?.. of the guns for sale on SR and stomp all over everyone's freedom. Who needs freedom anyway? Would Gandhi or Nelson Mandela have been so damn special if they were free their whole lives? Didn't think so playa. A little oppression adds flavor to an otherwise free, boring, actionless life. If Martin Luther King King Jr. didn't have a battle to fight, would anyone know his name? Not unless you lived in Chester, Pennsylvania and went to see his sermons.
Without an enemy, there is no fight. And without a fight, what's the point? As George Orwell said, "Freedom is slavery." Therefore, I declare that anyone who is in favor of selling guns on the Silk Road is an advocate of slavery. This is a simple fact and is not up for debate, so don't even try.
/thread
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^ One of the best uses of non-sequitur I have seen in a long time.
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...a bunch of hateful nonsense ... Gandhi ... more hateful nonsense...
"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest.” - Mahatma Ghandi
Why? Because it enabled all the other misdeeds. Disarmament is the keystone of oppression. You cannot oppress the armed.
Some people like their little boxes. Some don't. You don't have the right to choose your neighbor's box just because you like yours.
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You cannot oppress the armed? C'mon are you serious?!? No oppression in the US where we have the god given, inalienable right to arm our toddlers with aks and c4? Certainly no oppression here nossir never. It is hard to take this argument seriously. This thread has never been about anyone's right to arm themselves. It has always been about whether to allow guns here on SR where I buy my drugs. No one is coming in the night to take your guns and camo pajamas. Relax...
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I think the administration has been pretty clear that they follow the NAP and they allow items that do not violate this onto the site.
It is not morally wrong to own an inanimate object whose creation did not violate someone's rights. It is not wrong to buy or sell an inanimate object.
This is why guns and weapons are allowed, and child porn is not. But it's up to SR - it's his/their site, they can add to or takeaway from the list however they want.
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You cannot oppress the armed? C'mon are you serious?!? No oppression in the US where we have the god given, inalienable right to arm our toddlers with aks and c4? Certainly no oppression here nossir never. It is hard to take this argument seriously. This thread has never been about anyone's right to arm themselves. It has always been about whether to allow guns here on SR where I buy my drugs. No one is coming in the night to take your guns and camo pajamas. Relax...
It's not an argument.
The first order of business of any oppressor, is to disarm the target. Why is that, golly. Maybe because it is much easier to do as you will to someone who has no means to prevent it...
But you're right, this is about guns on SR. But the problem with that perspective is that those who oppose them keep bringing up the anti-rights arguments. The rebuttal naturally involves a discussion of those rights...
If I get any more relaxed, I'll be comatose... I've been over this a million times, at least. The brain-dead will always be hateful.
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You cannot oppress the armed? C'mon are you serious?!? No oppression in the US where we have the god given, inalienable right to arm our toddlers with aks and c4? Certainly no oppression here nossir never. It is hard to take this argument seriously. This thread has never been about anyone's right to arm themselves. It has always been about whether to allow guns here on SR where I buy my drugs. No one is coming in the night to take your guns and camo pajamas. Relax...
It's not an argument.
The first order of business of any oppressor, is to disarm the target. Why is that, golly. Maybe because it is much easier to do as you will to someone who has no means to prevent it...
But you're right, this is about guns on SR. But the problem with that perspective is that those who oppose them keep bringing up the anti-rights arguments. The rebuttal naturally involves a discussion of those rights...
If I get any more relaxed, I'll be comatose... I've been over this a million times, at least. The brain-dead will always be hateful.
We should all have the right to bear arms, it's in our constitution. Just have to be careful WHERE and WHO you buy these guns from.
CaptainJohnny is clearly a LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENTt: http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=3217.0
Please explain why you are collecting addresses of MANY interested parties and mysteriously trying to further identify us with WU transfers.
We wan't GUNS! Not Agent CaptainJohnny!
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^ One of the best uses of non-sequitur I have seen in a long time.
Thank you anarcho, but I meant all that literally. It appears as if you are the only person who thought otherwise.
...a bunch of hateful nonsense ... Gandhi ... more hateful nonsense...
"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest.” - Mahatma Ghandi
Why? Because it enabled all the other misdeeds. Disarmament is the keystone of oppression. You cannot oppress the armed.
Some people like their little boxes. Some don't. You don't have the right to choose your neighbor's box just because you like yours.
First off, I don't understand what the misdeeds of British people with black arms has to do with anything. Am I missing something?
Personally, I like a big box. You can fit more in it and there is room for renovations. Also, what is your stance in regards to my putting objects into your mothers box. Is that okay? Perhaps I do not have the right to choose my neighbor's box, I do have a choice as to which of my neighbor's boxes I will steal. This is a God given right if I am not mistaken.
"A bunch of hateful nonsense"? That hurts, bro. I thought we were friends. I believe the fault lies in your inability to comprehend the significant magnitude of my words. My superior logic causes you fear. The kind of fear a gun won't protect you from. The kind of fear that makes you dismiss my Truths as "hateful nonsense." The kind of fear that turns an otherwise normal person into an oppressor, be it an oppressor of facts or of people. You have become what you most despise. I want you to know that I am not angry with you. I respect you as a human being, with all the faults, denial and inconsistencies that entails.
Please let what I have said soak in for a while before you attempt a response. A hasty response will likely result in an argument based on emotions rather than logic, and God knows this thread already has more emotional arguments than it needs.
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First off, I don't understand
Correct.
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:D I for one would like to see a wider selection of guns and gun related gear. Like a GUN STORE or PAWN SHOP. They are full of different guns. I would like to see that variety here with an SR shady style to it. Say buy a gun, get a suppressor half off. Buy 2 sticks of dynamite get a detonator free. That would be cool.
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...believe the fault lies in your inability to comprehend the significant magnitude of my words. My superior logic causes you fear.
Please...come one Freddy, get real. During this whole debate, you have yet to put together a cogent syllogism. Give up, you have lost, take your antigun, pro-government, pro-cop, anti-personal freedom argument.
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To the "pragmatists" on this thread: consider the perspective of an aspiring school-shooting nut:
He has a ton of less expensive, easier options than SR to procure the guns he wants (lax gun shows, straw purchases, secondhand/pawn shop, stolen, etc.).
The firearms I've seen offered for sale here are expensive, require knowledgeable folks to assemble (I'm looking at BlackGuns' offerings) and require lots of hoops to jump through.
If your aim is criminal mayhem, SR is a VERY unattractive place to procure firearms.
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...believe the fault lies in your inability to comprehend the significant magnitude of my words. My superior logic causes you fear.
Please...come one Freddy, get real. During this whole debate, you have yet to put together a cogent syllogism. Give up, you have lost, take your antigun, pro-government, pro-cop, anti-personal freedom argument.
Those are some big words for such a small child. You have been spending too much time on dictionary.com - who the hell says cogent syllogism? I am as literal as the bible and you can't even wrap your head around my flow.
I'd prefer to oppress you. I will smother you with my love for cops and the government.
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yes to guns. i don't give a flying fuck what people do with them, it's none of my business, and in europe i couldn't buy a gun if i wanted to. i'm not here to judge wether or not the government should allow or forbid to sell guns, i just want to have the freedom of possibility to buy one, with all it's consequences.
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We should all have the right to bear arms, it's in our constitution. Just have to be careful WHERE and WHO you buy these guns from.
CaptainJohnny is clearly a LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENTt: http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=3217.0
Please explain why you are collecting addresses of MANY interested parties and mysteriously trying to further identify us with WU transfers.
We wan't GUNS! Not Agent CaptainJohnny!
Not that it matters, Mr. Upset that I refused to do business with you.
I never do business through WU when you insisted I give you MY information. I told you BTC only and that is what pissed you off. How dare I know your plan and not be so desperate that I do something stupid....
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Poppin' a cap into...
Barack Obama
John Boehner
Nancy Pelosi
Mitch McConnell
Harry Reid
... and Jerry Lewis too
There's a reason to own a fuggin' gun!!!
xoxo,
- Bit
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To the "pragmatists" on this thread: consider the perspective of an aspiring school-shooting nut:
He has a ton of less expensive, easier options than SR to procure the guns he wants (lax gun shows, straw purchases, secondhand/pawn shop, stolen, etc.).
The firearms I've seen offered for sale here are expensive, require knowledgeable folks to assemble (I'm looking at BlackGuns' offerings) and require lots of hoops to jump through.
If your aim is criminal mayhem, SR is a VERY unattractive place to procure firearms.
indeed. I've had my eye on one of those lightning links BG has listed for awhile now, I wish he had a few more reviews.
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Therefore, I declare that anyone who is in favor of selling guns on the Silk Road is an advocate of slavery.
I love you Freddie...
In a world where down is up, and up is down, your rationale makes perfect sense.
Put the DMT pipe down real slow and turn off the cartoons, get some fresh air and go to detox. For the rest of us the world will continue revolving while fighing the good fight against the system.
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yes to guns. i don't give a flying fuck what people do with them, it's none of my business, and in europe i couldn't buy a gun if i wanted to. i'm not here to judge wether or not the government should allow or forbid to sell guns, i just want to have the freedom of possibility to buy one, with all it's consequences.
+1
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I personally like to see guns advertised. What's the point in removing guns when drugs are the main selling item on the silk road.
I'm in search for a firearms and would like to see more people put them up for sale because at this current moment there is only 1 Gun for sale and 1000+ Drugs. What kind of ratio is that?
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+1 free market
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New sale of guns on Silk Road poll... cast your vote!
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=3952.0
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It's not about whether it's morally correct to have guns available on SR. It's about how that market puts SR at risk. Guns grab attention from LE more than anything else. DON'T BUY OR SELL YOUR GUNS ON SR, IT'S TOO HIGH RISK.