Silk Road forums
Discussion => Security => Topic started by: objekt on July 12, 2011, 11:40 pm
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i understand some of this may have been covered, but i've struggled to see it.
history: SWIM's virgin transaction went dwolla->mtgox->SR. it wasn't a heavy purchase, but the understanding is that it SHOULD have gone dwolla->mtgox->eWallet->SR, all via TOR to generic accounts. EXCEPT for dwolla, which was a bank transfer.
question: should i consider this SR burned to future purchases? the mtgox account was accessed securely and insecurely over months to LEGITIMATE email address... (lessons learned). new anonymous accounts will be created and accessed via TOR ONLY, using hushmail, except for dwolla... what to do? is all that nessecary? if the bitcoins can be tracked back to a legitimate transfer from dwolla where is the trail lost?
this interest in bitcoin and SR never lead to explicit instructions and now future purchases need to be protected. whats the best procedure? people have said dwolla>mtgox>ewallet>sr, but how can anonymous monies be deposited into mtgox? feeling that disposable credit cards is overkill and that level of security isn't needed...
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If you take your cash from mtgox and run it through a tumbler, then have it incrementally deposited out to your ewallet (some of the tumbler services do 5 or 10 withrawals and do this for 0.02 BTC for the service), it would be practically impossible to trace from there. Then you can run it straight into SR. from your ewallet.
SR has a built in tumbler, and while some people have claimed that the outgoing only goes to one BTC address, you can transfer out to a tumbler again on your way out, then incrementally back to your ewallet and then to MtGox if you wish to cash out. Basically it is extremely hard to actually identify WHO is at an address, but it theoretically can be done (I'm not sure if it has yet - if anyone has heard please post it!). That being said all you are doing with bitcoin native is downloading the latest block, and your transaction (if applicable) would be logged within that block - address-to-address. It doesn't actually have a receiving IP just a BTC address and if your address is in that block it simply has to be downloaded 5 times to confirm the transaction.
If you cash out to something like LR instead of Dwolla it is much harder to trace because a) LR is offshore, and b) you can make LR payments anonymous. I use LR and Pecunix (although I can't use Dwolla because I'm not in the US - I wouldn't anyway except to put funds into Mtgox and only as a second-string to LR).
Just add in a tumbler on each side in between MtGox and e-wallet, and you remove virtually any risk of having your BTC address linked.
I am way more worried about landing myself in an LE exit node on Tor than I am about BTC though. I can just imagine a prosecutor trying to explain BTC addresses to a jury... lol.
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I wouldn't be using your old dwolla, mtgox, SR or email accounts for any new SP purchases. To be totally anonymous, start from scratch with new accounts.
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^Sorry I was going to say that too. I agree. best to start from scratch.
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well, i am only putting money into SR and am not a seller. i am trying to make all new accounts through TOR only, but my problem is getting USD into the 'system'. Dwolla takes a bank transfer, and is clearly linked to myself (my account, my real email). from there it goes mtgox->mybitcoin->SR. What are some of these tumbler services (i'll google i guess...)?
i feel if i use anonymous NEW accounts, but even ONE of them is traceable, then all will be linked.
am i missing how to make a anonymous dwolla account? i AM NOT going to mail cash off and hope someone deposits it. too long, too risky. i haven't used LR at all, maybe that is something i should consider.
jurors learning bitcoin... i have a hard enough time explaining it to the g/f even after a month.
i am not totally paranoid, but its educational and i want to do whats right by the community.
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I guess I've been blowing it too.
Bank>Dwolla>Mt Gox >SR
>Tradehill >SR
Am I about to to get raided?
Then there was the stupid sending of unencypted delivery info at first......
And even stupider it seems.....sending BarrySneaky my delivery info!
What am I in for? And sorry guys/girls if my actions make it harder on anyone else :(
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@bp you should be fine
Silk Road uses 1 time unique deposit addresses that go into a tumbler. Even if LE could track it to Silk Road, which would be very difficult for a one time address, is that some bitcoin you once had ended up somehow getting onto Silk Road. This is the forensic equivalent of testing $100 for cocaine residue - more than 75% of them do (or whatever the stat is on cocaine residue on money is)
Taking bitcoin OUT of Silk Road might be a little more tricky, but going in you should be fine.
Extra precautions never hurt but you should not be too stressed out about it.
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Thanks but now that I think about it it was:
Dwolla > Mt Gox > my wallet > SR
Dwolla > Tradehill > my wallet > SR
I guess that's better.
Still bummed about sending info without pgp and trusting BarrySneaky (and looking the same with Illy now too)
Live and learn. If I wanted someone else to protect me from my own stupidity I'd believe in government :)
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Thanks but now that I think about it it was:
Dwolla > Mt Gox > my wallet > SR
Dwolla > Tradehill > my wallet > SR
I guess that's better.
Still bummed about sending info without pgp and trusting BarrySneaky (and looking the same with Illy now too)
Live and learn. If I wanted someone else to protect me from my own stupidity I'd believe in government :)
Now THAT'S a funny comment. And also a great attitude to take. Bravo bp!
p.s. I guess you won't be ordering from my new seller account "Iscreweverybody"? ::)
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For the record, bitcoinlaundry.com is cheap as hell (use through Tor) - he only charges half a percent for tumbling services. I use him a lot.
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Thanks but now that I think about it it was:
Dwolla > Mt Gox > my wallet > SR
Dwolla > Tradehill > my wallet > SR
I guess that's better.
Still bummed about sending info without pgp and trusting BarrySneaky (and looking the same with Illy now too)
Live and learn. If I wanted someone else to protect me from my own stupidity I'd believe in government :)
You're doing fine, bp...I'm use similar strategies, and every once it a while, I pay for the experience..hell, I got burnt *twice* on Black Market, and I *knew* better...but o well...and then reformatted to thro linux on top of windows, and forgot I had 47btc in my wallet...and in spite of lots of help and different attempts, I've yet to recover that wallet...I wish I 'lived and learned,' but sometimes I think I just live and go 'whoops!' regularly.. :)
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$100 for cocaine residue - more than 75% of them do (or whatever the stat is on cocaine residue on money is)
See coke is a rich boys drug, me I'm happy to snort it with a fiver!! :P
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@arachno47
Please correct me if I am wrong, but bitcoinlaundry.com is not actually a tumbler, at least not according to the forum.bitcoin.org thread.
It just adds one simple address to the chain, like sending it to yourself. This is not ANY protection and should not be used.
Not to be confused with https://bitlaundry.appspot.com/ - which is a mixer/tumbler
(and just to make it more confusing the first guy just bought out the second one.)
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@kindbud. Sorry that's the one I was thinking of for some reason I typed the other address in.
Also I have only 2 legs... ;)
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Fck, I am so confused. PGP, outgoing, tricky going out? WTF? Sighs, I want to learn how not to get caught, obviously - and take my BT from SR and then transfer that into my bank account for real life use. How many hoops do I have to jump thru? -.-
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Fck, I am so confused. PGP, outgoing, tricky going out? WTF? Sighs, I want to learn how not to get caught, obviously - and take my BT from SR and then transfer that into my bank account for real life use. How many hoops do I have to jump thru? -.-
It isn't worth having a paper trail. Just tumble and buy Visa gift cards for bills, food, parking tickets, porn, online shopping, cash back. That way, like someone else said, no Tax Parasites.