Silk Road forums
Support => Feature requests => Topic started by: undrdwg on June 22, 2011, 06:29 am
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Feedback on buyers needs to be added and heres why. New buyers whether scammers or feds could disrupt the system by ordering product and then saying they didn't get it. In fact they could do this repeatedly, and to many different vendors. I for one will not sell more than very small amounts of product on here to someone unless they are a personal repeat customer for that very reason.
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Fully agree.
Also what if a seller has lots of fake feedback left by his alt account. Then, it could be that the buyer wont be believed because of the apparent 100% feedback.
And in before people saying "I don't want a log of the products I buy, from who"
All it needs to be is a rating up to 5 stars, that's it. we will know what 0 star rating will mean. And maybe only long time sellers can leave said feedback.
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Yes, I also think we need a way to keep buyers accountable as well.
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+1
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Agree +1
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I'm a great customer. I read the item descriptions and sellers pages carefully before I place an order, to make sure I understand the procedures that seller needs me to follow, as I realize they differ from seller to seller. I don't ask stupid questions, I encrypt if requested, and I don't bug the seller about "how long is it going to take" while the package is in transit.
I'd love to be rated as a buyer. When I'm selling, I'm going to prefer to deal with the highly rated buyers because I know I won't have to /facepalm during the deal.
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I agree
I wouldn't mind being rated as a buyer
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Nope: it'll fuck this thing all up. You know exactly what happened on ebay when they started buyer feedback. Sellers naturally *wait* until they see what the buyer writes, before the put anything down...buyers are held hostage. That's what would happen here. Good sellers haven't got a worry in the world, they are weeded out from the dickheads by feedback.
I'd find another way to do this...as soon as you start buyer feedback, no buyer in his right mind would want to say bad things about a seller who didn't produce, as then the seller would fuck him. I don't mind a seller dispute box, but again, what we're bumping into now is the same thning ebay struggles with...still...
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couldn't you just force the seller to leave feedback first? e.g. seller can't get his rating until he leaves some for the buyer
also, we don't really need to connect a buyer to a transaction, just that this buyer was this quality rating
if nothing else, how about some kind of scoring system that keeps track of how much time someone spends browsing vs how much they've sold (or if the privacy pundits allow, how much purchases a buyer made, e.g.)
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buyer feedback is a bad idea. if you are uncomfortable dealing with someone who might "reverse scam you" start small....keep in contact...seek them out in cross forums to verify...build trust the same way you would in your everyday life. Im sure if some dealer you'd never actually met came to you on the street and said "Joe Blow is a great customer" you wouldn't front them a kg of blow based on his feedback. take your time and build relationships. ya you might run in to dishonest people on an underground drug forum, and that's a risk you take if you want, but don't make people that would be great return customers think twice because of buyer feedback. you could also adjust your prices for the percent of anticipated "reverse scamming" and refund the remainder to your good loyal customers........not that I advise that...just a though.
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If you are a buyer with bad feedback you can just start another account. Then you run into the issue of sellers not selling to 0 feedback buyers. I'd be interested to know how busy the escrow system is at the moment.
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If you are a buyer with bad feedback you can just start another account. Then you run into the issue of sellers not selling to 0 feedback buyers. I'd be interested to know how busy the escrow system is at the moment.
I personally would sell to someone with zero feedback, however I would not sell a large amount immediately. My main concern is buyers (feds?) clogging up the escrow service or just being a royal pain in the ass by not confirming they received an item. If I knew someone was notorious for letting the escrow go the full 30 days or notorious for saying they did not receive anything when they did, I would not want to deal with them and it would save sellers lots of time and hassle as well as protect them from scammers. I am not asking for a full comment system like ebay to rate the buyer and put comments but a simple way to know - how many previous transactions the buyer has had, and out of those transactions did they say they never received a package quite often, or stall the escrow system quite often
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I think an easier method is just to track how many disputed orders a buyer has. Don't have to ID the order, or the transaction, just a little thing that says "this buyer has __ disputes in the past 30 days". As a seller if I see someone with 5 disputes in the past month or at least I have some ammo when it comes to arbitration/dispute through SR. Any seller with a reputation for delivering should be able to bring this to the table and have it considered in a dispute.
This way it keeps transactions anonymous, but still leaves some transparency for a seller to decline an order or accept it. You can already check the user number to get an approximation of when that person joined so you know if they are a newb or have been hanging around for a while.
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Yep: I've heard some good ideas on here. I didn't know that bad buyers were a problem, and I agree, that you should have some kind of form...but I know as a buyer, well, the seller holds most of the marbles already, including my addy, so I feel they are in a much better position.
For example, there is a trusted seller who hasn't come thru on an order, and I *still* don't want to post bad feedback, as up to now, his has all been good...if he doesn't answer pm's tho, I guess I'll have to.
I figure most of us are like me: we want to get along here, and do right by each other, and I know I'm pretty understanding, as the drugs I like, well, we're known for doing our own product in a pinch, and even--gasp--lying about it, so I'm under no delusions...this ain't ebay, we do have to give each other a bit of slack, and all of us must have a little fear/awarness of where our realy danger always lies.
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I personally don't mind being rated as a buyer, since I like having reliable connects and want to keep it that way. However, I know the super-paranoid buyers are using "one account per purchase" for an additional layer of safety, so in this case the buyer rating will hurt them as they will have to start from 0 every time they make a buy.
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i would like to these implemented in some way, right now i am just considering running a thread where sellers can review any transactions we have.
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Maybe a bit offtopic, but I have the problem that as soon as everything is confirmed the buyer name goes away. One guy commented that I could've done better packaging. That's too vague for me. It'd be great if there'd be a feedback channel (only between the concerning buyer and seller) so I could get to know HOW I could've done better packaging.
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Maybe a bit offtopic, but I have the problem that as soon as everything is confirmed the buyer name goes away. One guy commented that I could've done better packaging. That's too vague for me. It'd be great if there'd be a feedback channel (only between the concerning buyer and seller) so I could get to know HOW I could've done better packaging.
Agreed! I've had one buyer praise my "Brilliant Packaging" and then have the very next one mention that I could have been more discrete. I can only surmise that part of the difference may have been the extra precautions I take when shipping international orders; but everyone has different expectations and I think it'd be very beneficial for the SR community if the feedback system better facilitated communication between buys and sellers, allowing sellers to grow and adjust to the needs of their customers.
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I am considering starting a thread just for "bad" buyers. I have not been on the website to check my feedback yet but right before the weekend I had a message from a buyer where he stated he was about to leave negative feedback (a 3 out of 5) because the item "seemed light" .. I couldn't believe it since everything I send is weighed precisely. I requested he go find a scale and weigh before he leaves feedback... but ultimately there is nothing to stop him from leaving bad feedback even though I know he got what he payed for.. so again this is why I hope some sort of buyer feedback is enabled here. Bad vendors could sabotage the competition by buying from other vendors of similar products and giving them bad ratings
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I agree, we need some sort of buyer feedback system. it should state the following:
feedback left for seller: yes/no with a link to the feedback
escrow status: was there a claim filed and if so, why?
no info about what was sold/bought just what happened between buyer and seller, if anything out of the ordinary
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I think its good to hold us buyers accountable. it's only fair.
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I'm in agreement that buyers need to act right, and I myself have started taking measures to lift escrow early on sellers...but buyer feedback always seems to end up as a form of blackmail. And I can even here a bit of that already: buyer posts bad feedback, so I post bad feedback on him. Once a buyer has paid, there isn't a whole lot you need feedback on him for; sellers, on the other hand, can not deliver, or deliver real late, or not answer pm's, or package in such away as to attract LE..
We keep going over this: any specific issues, I'm all for rectifying, but feedback itself, on buyers, I think tends to get abused. Not reading about a lot of bad buyers, as we don't have a lot of power to *do* bad things...once we've paid, main thing we need to do is click on 'sale finalized' when it gets here. There are more important things to focus on, but feedback for buyers often does get vindictive...or silly: what's there to say? We know he *paid* or u wouldn't be shipping...how can you say "Great buyer!, he XXX!!!" What? If would be ridiculous or vindictive...IMO
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I don't think that buyer feedback would work seamlessly. Delivery confirmation us to us is a good safeguard for the seller, but with people making a new account for every purchase, feedback would work. If buyers had some sort of a rating based on canceled orders, or not recd orders, that would work to some degree. You could show how many successful transactions a buyer has had without giving any detail as to what the trans, or who the trans were with. That's 2 cents from someone that has 4 cents.
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feedback on buyers would be useful to track any buyers who say they are not getting a delivery to avoid scammers. a buyer with a good rep may occasionally have a package seized but there should be evidence of that.
a seller could not report anything personal about a buyer only payment and delivery confirmation. that would keep "blackmail" out of the picture
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Transactions Disputed/Total Transactions.
That's all you need as a seller. If you have a bad feeling post in the forums (this is where a sellers-only section would be handy).
Someone batting .500 you want to avoid. Someone with 1/10 is not too shabby because chances are at least 1/10 sellers are doing a shit-ass job of packaging up their product.
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So if I get this right: if you get, say, 3 bad orders, and then get a 4th one, you better not complain, or you will get boycotted. Or the reverse: sellers who tend to deliver late, or sporadically, could pick buyers they know wouldn't dare complain?
The system works, I don't see sellers saying buyers are abusing the system. The real concerns are being addressed. Once buyers pay, there is nothing needs to be kept track of. I don't see this as a real issue. Are there a bunch of false disputes? Buyers want to get along with their sellers. The last thing they want to do is dispute a claim, and we go to extreme lengths before we dispute. This is no different than buyer feedback, and I see it being used for exactly the same reasons. A way to keep buyers from complaining. I've got a better idea. Deliver product as described, in a timely manner. There is no war between buyers and sellers, no intrinsic animosity. We want the product, and pay what is asked. These forums are a fine place to describe these buyers who are doing all these disputes. Where are they?
When product doesn't arrive, first thing we do is start a thread on it, so we can see if it's just us, if seller is communicating. Dispute is only done when something wrong happens. It is a necessary part of this equation, and wanting anything that will intimidate buyers is wrong.
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I concur that a rating system for buyers would help improve SR. But I also believe that an improved feedback system that will allow the buyer to rate a seller on each individual transactions Communication, Quality, Shipping Time, and Package Security.
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I am considering starting a thread just for "bad" buyers. I have not been on the website to check my feedback yet but right before the weekend I had a message from a buyer where he stated he was about to leave negative feedback (a 3 out of 5) because the item "seemed light" .. I couldn't believe it since everything I send is weighed precisely. I requested he go find a scale and weigh before he leaves feedback... but ultimately there is nothing to stop him from leaving bad feedback even though I know he got what he payed for.. so again this is why I hope some sort of buyer feedback is enabled here. Bad vendors could sabotage the competition by buying from other vendors of similar products and giving them bad ratings
This exact thing happened to me. A buyer was trying to weigh out 25mg of something on a (probably shitty, digital) centigram scale that "has weighed out 25mg of DMT for a couple years". How a centigram scale can measure to the milligram is a mystery to me. It wasn't even breaking the 0.00 mark for him. I told him to try what I gave him before releasing the funds from escrow, and guess what, I didn't short him at all. From what I gather he tripped balls.
Don't taint my feedback because your equipment is lacking or you don't like the way I package my material (you got the package, right?).
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this might have already been suggested, but just a simple X% of orders by this buyer have gone to resolution center. might not be bad for buyers to voluntarily post in rumor mill to let vendors post feedback. I for one do not want to call a buyer out for going to resolution center if they have a legitimate issue, so just an acknowlegement in that users voluntary thread would work well. Just an Idea
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Transactions Disputed/Total Transactions.
That's all you need as a seller.
+1
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so that looks like 100% all in agreement for buyers feedback :)
Even buyers want feedback.
The more I think about it the more I agree, so hopefully it will be a feature sometime
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Transactions Disputed/Total Transactions.
That's all you need as a seller.
+1
Thats perfect.
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Great idea!
+1
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I dont think personally 'Transactions Disputed/Total Transactions' is a good indicator. As simple and to the point that it is I feel this is not enough.
What about the poor customer who has 3/3 or whatever. The customer could have just been legitimately shafted 3 deals in a row and now not many sellers will sell to them with a 3/3
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+1
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@novocaine - that customer can always start a new buyer account (it's free) and retry from there.
I'm sure it's going to be anomalous at best. Maybe with some of the heroin sellers since their luck seems to be spotty at best, but 3 disputes means a shit run of luck, or a really dumb buyer buying from brand new sellers with no history. I dont' think it would be a big issue, and if a buyer is having a shit-run of luck and wants to keep that account he can always take it to the forums.
I still think this adds a great amount of transparency to the buyer side without divulging an inkling of personal details or even transaction details to the general public, and rewards good buyers while deterring those who would want to scam or get a nice 50% discount at the expense of sellers. It's has the least cost-to-benefit and also doesn't allow sellers to abuse feedback to buyers after they already have their funds tied up in escrow.
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+1
Why has this not been implemented yet?
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+1
Buyers can always start a new account- vendors work hard for their accounts and have to pay a bond. Its not easy for us good ones who bust our ass. I have had my feedback held hostage many times.
It doesn't even need to be feedback. It can be checkboxes that the vendor rates the buyer on a 1-5scale, 1 being don't sell to this person - 5- being great buyer. And a resolve button for vendors who are getting extorted.